Has anyone managed to ride the electric Metrocity GNE has on trial at the moment? I wondered what your thoughts of it were.

I haven't been on it myself, but having watched a few videos of it on YouTube it doesn't seem like the most peaceful sounding electric bus ever, or at least not when accelerating over 30mph.

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London's new Caetano e.City's on the other hand sound very peaceful. Granted being in London it's probably trundling along gently & not having to accelerate onto the Tyne Bridge from a standing start to 40/50mph. But still, listen to this:

(24 Jul 2020, 8:59 am)ne14ne1 wrote Has anyone managed to ride the electric Metrocity GNE has on trial at the moment? I wondered what your thoughts of it were.

I haven't been on it myself, but having watched a few videos of it on YouTube it doesn't seem like the most peaceful sounding electric bus ever, or at least not when accelerating over 30mph.

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The Metrocity might have a rougher engine noise but from those 2 videos I'd take it any day over the Caetano. The amount of rattles on there for a vehicle less than 6 month old is shocking. Wouldn't want to know what they're going to be like in a few year time. Engine noise you can just zone out most the time.

(24 Jul 2020, 10:18 am)Storx wrote The Metrocity might have a rougher engine noise but from those 2 videos I'd take it any day over the Caetano. The amount of rattles on there for a vehicle less than 6 month old is shocking. Wouldn't want to know what they're going to be like in a few year time. Engine noise you can just zone out most the time.

The Caetano is said to be very good, however, and Abellio London is planning on ordering the Double Deck variant of it, with regards to the build quality I imagine it will get better over time. Look how much time Optare have needed to get it right

It’s truly Awful I was with Northeasttransport when he recorded and it’s awful

(24 Jul 2020, 11:39 am)ThomasBooth123 wrote It’s truly Awful I was with Northeasttransport when he recorded and it’s awful

Even as someone who loves the whine of an electric motor (even over the sound of a diesel, which I prefer over petrol), that sounds bloody awful! 

I remember the E200EV sounding particularly nice, same with the Yutong they had on the X66.

(24 Jul 2020, 4:56 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Even as someone who loves the whine of an electric motor (even over the sound of a diesel, which I prefer over petrol), that sounds bloody awful! 

I remember the E200EV sounding particularly nice, same with the Yutong they had on the X66.

I love the electric motor whine on electric or hybrid vehicles but it sounds like there might be other stuff going on with that Metrocity, I don’t know though, I’m no mechanic. 

I’d take an electric motor whine over the sound of a diesel any day.

(24 Jul 2020, 5:15 pm)ne14ne1 wrote I love the electric motor whine on electric or hybrid vehicles but it sounds like there might be other stuff going on with that Metrocity, I don’t know though, I’m no mechanic. 

I’d take an electric motor whine over the sound of a diesel any day.

From the video, it sounds like a dodgy bearing to me, although it could just be that they're using a crap motor!

My personal favourite is the Coaster hybrids, I love hearing the electric motor then the engine kicking in once it's on the move, it's the best of both worlds. Plus, you just can't beat the instant torque of electric!

(24 Jul 2020, 5:29 pm)streetdeckfan wrote From the video, it sounds like a dodgy bearing to me, although it could just be that they're using a crap motor!

My personal favourite is the Coaster hybrids, I love hearing the electric motor then the engine kicking in once it's on the move, it's the best of both worlds. Plus, you just can't beat the instant torque of electric!

The Euro6 models are class, if you ever go down to London, be sure to ride on one. I think when the electric motor kicks in, it has a combined output of 410HP, instant take off!

(24 Jul 2020, 11:31 pm)Big O wrote The Euro6 models are class, if you ever go down to London, be sure to ride on one. I think when the electric motor kicks in, it has a combined output of 410HP, instant take off!

Yeah I was going to say the Gemini 3 hybrids in London are much better. They seem much smoother and seem to last purely on battery way longer than our Gemini 2 hybrids.
Our Coaster hybrids seem to only manage, what, maybe 10mph on battery before it feels there’s a complete lose of acceleration while the diesel starts up & the bus regains momentum. Don’t know if it’s a horrible gearbox but the transition from electric to diesel isn’t exactly seamless. 

When I used to commute on the 308 hybrids I’d cringe as they pulled out of the Corner House bus stop into busy fairly quick moving traffic & it felt like we lost all acceleration when the electric motor handed over to the Diesel engine.

How tech has developed since.

(25 Jul 2020, 7:16 am)ne14ne1 wrote Yeah I was going to say the Gemini 3 hybrids in London are much better. They seem much smoother and seem to last purely on battery way longer than our Gemini 2 hybrids.
Our Coaster hybrids seem to only manage, what, maybe 10mph on battery before it feels there’s a complete lose of acceleration while the diesel starts up & the bus regains momentum. Don’t know if it’s a horrible gearbox but the transition from electric to diesel isn’t exactly seamless. 

When I used to commute on the 308 hybrids I’d cringe as they pulled out of the Corner House bus stop into busy fairly quick moving traffic & it felt like we lost all acceleration when the electric motor handed over to the Diesel engine.

How tech has developed since.

Defo mate, its a shame the Euro5 models weren't so good, because I'm sure they were put off by them, as they were with the demonstrator B5TLs they had too. The Euro6 models are some of the best buses for both passenger and driver. They feel as if they float along the road. If GNE purchased them for a route like the 56 for example, they'd soon reap the benefits. They're very fuel-efficient and super reliable. Having said that I found an old document that might be of interest to some viewers. It shares a brief comparison between the E400H and B5LH. 

http://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/presenta...xpress.pdf

(25 Jul 2020, 10:51 pm)Big O wrote Defo mate, its a shame the Euro5 models weren't so good, because I'm sure they were put off by them, as they were with the demonstrator B5TLs they had too. The Euro6 models are some of the best buses for both passenger and driver. They feel as if they float along the road. If GNE purchased them for a route like the 56 for example, they'd soon reap the benefits. They're very fuel-efficient and super reliable. Having said that I found an old document that might be of interest to some viewers. It shares a brief comparison between the E400H and B5LH. 

http://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/presenta...xpress.pdf

Cheers, I’ll have a read of that later.
I agree, it would be nice to have some new hybrids in the fleet, and a start-stop local service like the 56 or 21 would be ideal. The improvement to passenger experience alone would be great, not having the noisy diesel growling the whole time, especially when the bus is idling or moving at lower speeds. 
I get they promote their Euro6 diesels as clean and green, but they’re still giving off some emissions. At least with modern hybrids there’ll be regular periods where they are emitting zero pollutants in our towns & cities, & reducing noise pullution too. 
All about the upfront investment though I suppose.

(26 Jul 2020, 7:51 am)ne14ne1 wrote Cheers, I’ll have a read of that later.
I agree, it would be nice to have some new hybrids in the fleet, and a start-stop local service like the 56 or 21 would be ideal. The improvement to passenger experience alone would be great, not having the noisy diesel growling the whole time, especially when the bus is idling or moving at lower speeds. 
I get they promote their Euro6 diesels as clean and green, but they’re still giving off some emissions. At least with modern hybrids there’ll be regular periods where they are emitting zero pollutants in our towns & cities, & reducing noise pullution too. 
All about the upfront investment though I suppose.

I do think Hybrids should still have a big part to play in the future of all transport, we're still a while away for BEV or Hydrogen vehicles being able to do long routes that we have up here. It's a shame that there's not more funding to buy none BEV vehicles so they could upgrade the likes of the 56 to hybrids.

(25 Jul 2020, 7:16 am)ne14ne1 wrote Yeah I was going to say the Gemini 3 hybrids in London are much better. They seem much smoother and seem to last purely on battery way longer than our Gemini 2 hybrids.
Our Coaster hybrids seem to only manage, what, maybe 10mph on battery before it feels there’s a complete lose of acceleration while the diesel starts up & the bus regains momentum. Don’t know if it’s a horrible gearbox but the transition from electric to diesel isn’t exactly seamless. 

When I used to commute on the 308 hybrids I’d cringe as they pulled out of the Corner House bus stop into busy fairly quick moving traffic & it felt like we lost all acceleration when the electric motor handed over to the Diesel engine.

How tech has developed since.

Don't they have an automated manual gearbox rather than proper automatic, hence the 'lurch' on the switch to diesel, and on gear changes.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

(26 Jul 2020, 12:37 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Don't they have an automated manual gearbox rather than proper automatic, hence the 'lurch' on the switch to diesel, and on gear changes.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

Indeed, the 12 Speed I-Shift Gearbox, it's so much better on the Euro6 model however, there is no real lurch or throttle delay. It can run to about 20mph with the electric motor and then the engine kicks in.  Even passengers like the bus, which I've never seen before.

Does the 21 run on the A1 at all? Because if not it would be a perfect route, although the Euro6 model can run on dual carriageways happily, I think B5LH is better suited to routes that do not use a great proportion of dual carriageway work.

(26 Jul 2020, 12:49 pm)Big O wrote Indeed, the 12 Speed I-Shift Gearbox, it's so much better on the Euro6 model however, there is no real lurch or throttle delay. It can run to about 20mph with the electric motor and then the engine kicks in.  Even passengers like the bus, which I've never seen before.

Does the 21 run on the A1 at all? Because if not it would be a perfect route, although the Euro6 model can run on dual carriageways happily, I think B5LH is better suited to routes that do not use a great proportion of dual carriageway work.

I thought as much, although to be fair I quite like the feeling of the gearbox

The only bit of the 21 that is dual carriageway is the bit between Chester le Street and Pity Me, and it's only a couple miles.

I don't think we'll see a return of Hybrids on the Angel though, if they're keeping them for the long term, the increased upkeep once warranty expires may wipe out the cost savings of fuel.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

The charging points and protective barriers have now been installed at the front of Riverside.

Did the Metrocity demo make it onto the Q3 & 58 at all?

(21 Aug 2020, 12:08 pm)ne14ne1 wrote Did the Metrocity demo make it onto the Q3 & 58 at all?

It returns from MOT today, and will be used on the Q3 from next week.

(21 Aug 2020, 1:03 pm)Dan wrote It returns from MOT today, and will be used on the Q3 from next week.

How long is it sticking around this time?

I presume it'll be around longer than usual since there's less demand for demo vehicles at the minute, especially expensive ones.

Photos/tweet by MG of the Metrocity demo out on the Q3:



https://twitter.com/MartijnGNE/status/12...95297?s=20

I was thinking, I hope the new electrics don't get a green livery. If the Saltwell Park brand is retained then the nature of the brand and the new vehicle's environmental credentials would both make green the obvious choice.
However there seems to be quite a bit of green in town (Newcastle) now with the Xlines X30/31/45/46/47/70/71, Green Arrows 97 & Saltwell Park 53/54 (which obviously the electrics will eventually replace).

On the other hand, there will be very little red in town, with just the back of the new Xlines X1s, and the few 33(A)s. For red being GNE's corporate colour thats not really a lot, and as I say it's only visible in Newcastle on the 33s or the odd spare.

I kind of get that they want to keep the Crusader brand as the name has local connotations, and a branded service may be more easily spotted when Metro passengers have to look out for the 26/27 as a replacement during Metro suspensions/failures etc.
I also kind of get that the 56 will still warrant a brand, and if it is indeed on the lines of Citylink/Cityconnect 56 that makes sense as it raises awareness that people can use it to get into Newcastle or Sunderland, or from one to the other.
I personally would like to see the 57 & 58 debranded however & left as corporate red, as they aren't "flagship" routes. They're simply local routes that aren't really competing with other bus companies or other modes of public transport. (I think the 97 should have went the same way but it's too late now).

What do you guys think about the new electrics. Do you think the Saltwell Park name will be dropped in favour of the focusing on it's zero emissions? Then again, renaming it to something with Electric in the title, for example, & giving it an electric themed livery may not look great in years to come if they aren't replaced with more fully electric vehicles.
And what happens when they purchase electrics for other routes, e.g. 58 or Quaylinks. Would those routes also have to become part of the electric brand's family, despite the routes not being related. Then further in the future when most buses are electric/hydrogen etc will all routes be shouting I'm electric, rather than it just being the norm? Difficult one. I suppose you just have to concentrate on the here and now and promote the new electrics for the 53/54 as clean green superior public transport machines to get people onboard.

EDIT - Just remembered the 25 & 28 are also corporate red routes in Newcastle. Thats still not alot, especially when you come back from cities like Edinburgh where the buses all look so smart & unified.

(08 Sep 2020, 10:15 am)ne14ne1 wrote I was thinking, I hope the new electrics don't get a green livery. If the Saltwell Park brand is retained then the nature of the brand and the new vehicle's environmental credentials would both make green the obvious choice.
However there seems to be quite a bit of green in town (Newcastle) now with the Xlines X30/31/45/46/47/70/71, Green Arrows 97 & Saltwell Park 53/54 (which obviously the electrics will eventually replace).

On the other hand, there will be very little red in town, with just the back of the new Xlines X1s, and the few 33(A)s. For red being GNE's corporate colour thats not really a lot, and as I say it's only visible in Newcastle on the 33s or the odd spare.

I kind of get that they want to keep the Crusader brand as the name has local connotations, and a branded service may be more easily spotted when Metro passengers have to look out for the 26/27 as a replacement during Metro suspensions/failures etc.
I also kind of get that the 56 will still warrant a brand, and if it is indeed on the lines of Citylink/Cityconnect 56 that makes sense as it raises awareness that people can use it to get into Newcastle or Sunderland, or from one to the other.
I personally would like to see the 57 & 58 debranded however & left as corporate red, as they aren't "flagship" routes. They're simply local routes that aren't really competing with other bus companies or other modes of public transport. (I think the 97 should have went the same way but it's too late now). 

What do you guys think about the new electrics. Do you think the Saltwell Park name will be dropped in favour of the focusing on it's zero emissions? Then again, renaming it to something with Electric in the title, for example, & giving it an electric themed livery may not look great in years to come if they aren't replaced with more fully electric vehicles.
And what happens when they purchase electrics for other routes, e.g. 58 or Quaylinks. Would those routes also have to become part of the electric brand's family, despite the routes not being related. In the future when most buses are electric/hydrogen etc will all routes be shouting I'm electric, rather than it just being the norm. Difficult one. I suppose you just have to concentrate on the here and now and promote the new electrics for the 53/54 as clean green superior public transport machines to get people onboard.

EDIT - Just remembered the 25 & 28 are also corporate red routes in Newcastle.

I believe it was confirmed already that the EVs will be getting their own special branding, whether or not it's dedicated branding, or just a variation of the current Saltwell Park branding that's been 'electrified' I don't know.
I personally would quite like to see something different that stands out.

(08 Sep 2020, 10:23 am)streetdeckfan wrote I believe it was confirmed already that the EVs will be getting their own special branding, whether or not it's dedicated branding, or just a variation of the current Saltwell Park branding that's been 'electrified' I don't know.
I personally would quite like to see something different that stands out.

What, apposed to all the other route brands that aren't screaming look at me?    Only joking, I appreciate they'll want to bring attention to the fact they're the regions first fully electric buses, and rightly so.

(08 Sep 2020, 10:15 am)ne14ne1 wrote I was thinking, I hope the new electrics don't get a green livery. If the Saltwell Park brand is retained then the nature of the brand and the new vehicle's environmental credentials would both make green the obvious choice.
However there seems to be quite a bit of green in town (Newcastle) now with the Xlines X30/31/45/46/47/70/71, Green Arrows 97 & Saltwell Park 53/54 (which obviously the electrics will eventually replace).

On the other hand, there will be very little red in town, with just the back of the new Xlines X1s, and the few 33(A)s. For red being GNE's corporate colour thats not really a lot, and as I say it's only visible in Newcastle on the 33s or the odd spare.

I kind of get that they want to keep the Crusader brand as the name has local connotations, and a branded service may be more easily spotted when Metro passengers have to look out for the 26/27 as a replacement during Metro suspensions/failures etc.
I also kind of get that the 56 will still warrant a brand, and if it is indeed on the lines of Citylink/Cityconnect 56 that makes sense as it raises awareness that people can use it to get into Newcastle or Sunderland, or from one to the other.
I personally would like to see the 57 & 58 debranded however & left as corporate red, as they aren't "flagship" routes. They're simply local routes that aren't really competing with other bus companies or other modes of public transport. (I think the 97 should have went the same way but it's too late now). 

 What do you guys think about the new electrics. Do you think the Saltwell Park name will be dropped in favour of the focusing on it's zero emissions? Then again, renaming it to something with Electric in the title, for example, & giving it an electric themed livery may not look great in years to come if they aren't replaced with more fully electric vehicles.
And what happens when they purchase electrics for other routes, e.g. 58 or Quaylinks. Would those routes also have to become part of the electric brand's family, despite the routes not being related. Then further in the future when most buses are electric/hydrogen etc will all routes be shouting I'm electric, rather than it just being the norm? Difficult one. I suppose you just have to concentrate on the here and now and promote the new electrics for the 53/54 as clean green superior public transport machines to get people onboard.

EDIT - Just remembered the 25 & 28 are also corporate red routes in Newcastle. Thats still not alot, especially when you come back from cities like Edinburgh where the buses all look so smart & unified.

They kept the 21 green on this batch of deckers after they initially changed the colour for the B5 hybrids.
No idea if that means anything or gives us a clue as to what will happen going forward.

Back in the day, I think they could have played on the Joseph Swan connection somehow and tied it in with electric light bulbs or something naff like that. However, I think the branding department have matured a bit in recent years.

(08 Sep 2020, 11:32 am)Andreos1 wrote They kept the 21 green on this batch of deckers after they initially changed the colour for the B5 hybrids.
No idea if that means anything or gives us a clue as to what will happen going forward.

Back in the day, I think they could have played on the Joseph Swan connection somehow and tied it in with electric light bulbs or something naff like that. However, I think the branding department have matured a bit in recent years.

Good point! I forgot about the Angel turning green because it previously switched to Hybrids, but then was left green when the Streetdecks were brought in. I wonder if it will eventually see a completely different colour when it either gets put into the "road strip" design or when its due new vehicles, (whichever comes first). A different colour would make it noticeable again as everyones used to its current look/colour.

I agree recent branding has generally been better, so looking forward to the unveiling of the electric's livery.

(08 Sep 2020, 10:15 am)ne14ne1 wrote I was thinking, I hope the new electrics don't get a green livery. If the Saltwell Park brand is retained then the nature of the brand and the new vehicle's environmental credentials would both make green the obvious choice.
However there seems to be quite a bit of green in town (Newcastle) now with the Xlines X30/31/45/46/47/70/71, Green Arrows 97 & Saltwell Park 53/54 (which obviously the electrics will eventually replace).

On the other hand, there will be very little red in town, with just the back of the new Xlines X1s, and the few 33(A)s. For red being GNE's corporate colour thats not really a lot, and as I say it's only visible in Newcastle on the 33s or the odd spare.

I kind of get that they want to keep the Crusader brand as the name has local connotations, and a branded service may be more easily spotted when Metro passengers have to look out for the 26/27 as a replacement during Metro suspensions/failures etc.
I also kind of get that the 56 will still warrant a brand, and if it is indeed on the lines of Citylink/Cityconnect 56 that makes sense as it raises awareness that people can use it to get into Newcastle or Sunderland, or from one to the other.
I personally would like to see the 57 & 58 debranded however & left as corporate red, as they aren't "flagship" routes. They're simply local routes that aren't really competing with other bus companies or other modes of public transport. (I think the 97 should have went the same way but it's too late now). 

What do you guys think about the new electrics. Do you think the Saltwell Park name will be dropped in favour of the focusing on it's zero emissions? Then again, renaming it to something with Electric in the title, for example, & giving it an electric themed livery may not look great in years to come if they aren't replaced with more fully electric vehicles.
And what happens when they purchase electrics for other routes, e.g. 58 or Quaylinks. Would those routes also have to become part of the electric brand's family, despite the routes not being related. Then further in the future when most buses are electric/hydrogen etc will all routes be shouting I'm electric, rather than it just being the norm? Difficult one. I suppose you just have to concentrate on the here and now and promote the new electrics for the 53/54 as clean green superior public transport machines to get people onboard.

EDIT - Just remembered the 25 & 28 are also corporate red routes in Newcastle. Thats still not alot, especially when you come back from cities like Edinburgh where the buses all look so smart & unified.

You missed the 6 and 12 aswell but to counter act that you missed the green on 10. I wouldn't do any red brands personally if I was GNE as unless you make a large variation to it on the front (eyes on Red Kite) it just looks like a corporate bus which kind of defeats the point of a brand. The Black Cats are really bad for that. I'd like to see more Purple and Black personally as there's nothing in Newcastle / Gateshead now. Infact there's no black brands in the whole GNE fleet now bar the redundant Toonlink.
 
Not too sure about the 58 not being a flagship route though it's a busy one imo and I wouldn't regard it as a secondary service which quite often gets new buses (rumoured to be the next electric route). It's certainly at the same level as the 53, 54, Q1 and Q2. I'd like to see the 56, 57 and 58 all come as one brand maybe with colour varients and maybe scrap the citylink brand with something new or totally redo it, the branding is a bit outdated now imo.

I think the recolour of the Angel though was to try and move on from the absymal service it had for the 5 years before and rather questionable decisions for it. Omnicities and 2nd hand dual door buses as much as the green credentials.

(08 Sep 2020, 4:36 pm)Storx wrote You missed the 6 and 12 aswell but to counter act that you missed the green on 10. I wouldn't do any red brands personally if I was GNE as unless you make a large variation to it on the front (eyes on Red Kite) it just looks like a corporate bus which kind of defeats the point of a brand. The Black Cats are really bad for that. I'd like to see more Purple and Black personally as there's nothing in Newcastle / Gateshead now. Infact there's no black brands in the whole GNE fleet now bar the redundant Toonlink.
 
Not too sure about the 58 not being a flagship route though it's a busy one imo and I wouldn't regard it as a secondary service which quite often gets new buses (rumoured to be the next electric route). It's certainly at the same level as the 53, 54, Q1 and Q2. I'd like to see the 56, 57 and 58 all come as one brand maybe with colour varients and maybe scrap the citylink brand with something new or totally redo it, the branding is a bit outdated now imo.

I think the recolour of the Angel though was to try and move on from the absymal service it had for the 5 years before and rather questionable decisions for it. Omnicities and 2nd hand dual door buses as much as the green credentials.

Of course, the Tyne Valley Ten, even more green!

Fair point on the 6 & 12 being corporate, I forgot about those recently changing.

I love black on cars and coaches, but not on service buses for some reason. Rather than posh or sleek I always think black service buses look naff or like a ghost bus tour. 

I don’t think it matters how busy routes 57 & 58 are, they just don’t need to be branded. 

Imagine if every bus was in an overall advert. It would pretty much defeat the purpose as no one would take notice, as it wouldn’t catch your eye if it was ‘the norm‘.

Having more plain corporate liveried routes would help the flagship/branded & premium (XLines) routes really stand out.

(08 Sep 2020, 4:56 pm)ne14ne1 wrote Of course, the Tyne Valley Ten, even more green!

Fair point on the 6 & 12 being corporate, I forgot about those recently changing.
I love black on cars and coaches, but not on service buses for some reason. Rather than posh or sleek I always think black service buses look naff or like a ghost bus tour. 

I don’t think it matters how busy routes 57 & 58 are, they just don’t need to be branded. 

Imagine if every bus was in an overall advert. It would pretty much defeat the purpose as no one would take notice, as it wouldn’t catch your eye if it was ‘the norm‘.
Having more plain corporate liveried routes would help the flagship/branded & premium (XLines) routes really stand out.

I like black me like but only if it's done well. Some of GNE's in the past have been a bit naff Toonlink and Fast Cats in particular. The Witchway (https://transportdesigned.com/wp-content...tchway.jpg) and 36 (https://nucleusimagery.blob.core.windows...3d0bb0f155) are two really nice liveries imo and would look good on something like the Tyne Valley Ten which is a bit all over the place atm. Look premium.

I still think the 57 and 58 deserve a brand though and should be lumped in with the 56 which is awful by any stretch. They're more important than stuff like the Green Arrows which has kept it's brand and don't really compete against the X-Lines anyway personally I'd rather have every bus upto or close to the standard of the X-Lines minus tables.

Q1/Q2 - 53/54 - 56/57/58 - 21 - 97 - 1

They should be the blocks of normal branded services in Gateshead imo as they're the most important ones, then have everything else as corporate there's enough services; 6/12/49/67/69/93/94/25/28/29 and all those are less popular than the 58 by some stretch.

(08 Sep 2020, 4:56 pm)ne14ne1 wrote Of course, the Tyne Valley Ten, even more green!

Fair point on the 6 & 12 being corporate, I forgot about those recently changing.

I love black on cars and coaches, but not on service buses for some reason. Rather than posh or sleek I always think black service buses look naff or like a ghost bus tour. 

I don’t think it matters how busy routes 57 & 58 are, they just don’t need to be branded. 

Imagine if every bus was in an overall advert. It would pretty much defeat the purpose as no one would take notice, as it wouldn’t catch your eye if it was ‘the norm‘.

Having more plain corporate liveried routes would help the flagship/branded & premium (XLines) routes really stand out.

I don't like black, but I really do like the charcoal X-Lines livery. Looks very smart IMO

(08 Sep 2020, 10:15 am)ne14ne1 wrote I was thinking, I hope the new electrics don't get a green livery. If the Saltwell Park brand is retained then the nature of the brand and the new vehicle's environmental credentials would both make green the obvious choice.
However there seems to be quite a bit of green in town (Newcastle) now with the Xlines X30/31/45/46/47/70/71, Green Arrows 97 & Saltwell Park 53/54 (which obviously the electrics will eventually replace).

On the other hand, there will be very little red in town, with just the back of the new Xlines X1s, and the few 33(A)s. For red being GNE's corporate colour thats not really a lot, and as I say it's only visible in Newcastle on the 33s or the odd spare.

I kind of get that they want to keep the Crusader brand as the name has local connotations, and a branded service may be more easily spotted when Metro passengers have to look out for the 26/27 as a replacement during Metro suspensions/failures etc.
I also kind of get that the 56 will still warrant a brand, and if it is indeed on the lines of Citylink/Cityconnect 56 that makes sense as it raises awareness that people can use it to get into Newcastle or Sunderland, or from one to the other.
I personally would like to see the 57 & 58 debranded however & left as corporate red, as they aren't "flagship" routes. They're simply local routes that aren't really competing with other bus companies or other modes of public transport. (I think the 97 should have went the same way but it's too late now). 

What do you guys think about the new electrics. Do you think the Saltwell Park name will be dropped in favour of the focusing on it's zero emissions? Then again, renaming it to something with Electric in the title, for example, & giving it an electric themed livery may not look great in years to come if they aren't replaced with more fully electric vehicles.
And what happens when they purchase electrics for other routes, e.g. 58 or Quaylinks. Would those routes also have to become part of the electric brand's family, despite the routes not being related. Then further in the future when most buses are electric/hydrogen etc will all routes be shouting I'm electric, rather than it just being the norm? Difficult one. I suppose you just have to concentrate on the here and now and promote the new electrics for the 53/54 as clean green superior public transport machines to get people onboard.

EDIT - Just remembered the 25 & 28 are also corporate red routes in Newcastle. Thats still not alot, especially when you come back from cities like Edinburgh where the buses all look so smart & unified.

Interesting point. While the X lines buses are really smart, I agree with your point, the livery for the Electric Buses won't really stand out. There's all shades of Green in Newcastle. One thing I liked about GNE is that they make the buses colourful. You can see all the different colours and makes the buses seem nicer and brighter than a dull livery like First or Stagecoach.

On the other side of the Tyne, most of the buses look rather similar. as it's either Corporate or Black Cats. I'm not a fan of the Black Cats brand as it looks far too similar to any other GNE bus. The only ones that sort of stand out in Sunderland for me is the Prince Bishops, Drifter and 56 services. Everything else just feels rather 'boring' in shades of red, although obviously, red is the main corporate colour of GNE. I think more colours in Sunderland etc. and less green in Newcastle would be good.