GNE Fleet Procurement
GNE Fleet Procurement
(03 Aug 2020, 10:44 am)Big O Volvo and Wright are still working together, its the ADL E400 B5TL That has been dropped for whatever reason.
(03 Aug 2020, 12:24 pm)mb134 To be honest I've been on Gemini 2s with faults of a similar standard to those you report on the original E400 - possibly due to the company, but there are a number of Gemini 2s that I've been on that have been a worse experience than an E400. A faultless Gemini 2 (take pretty much any GNE example), is better than an average E400 though for sure.
I'd argue that companies were purchasing Wright products more due to price than quality for a number of years. We all know how shoddy the Streetlite was, and the first few Streetdeck batches - if, as you say, companies were only considering build quality then there's not a chance they'd be going with Wright. I've got no idea how you don't rate the MMC as a product, everything about them looks and feels the part.
I'm not sure the "look at the Metrodecker" argument holds up - nobody was buying Optare bodied double deck products in huge quantities beforehand anyway. On the other hand, Wright had a huge share of the double deck market - and were partnering with Volvo. The E400 has, largely, used the same running gear for over a decade now and not only is it reliable, it means that operators get a better understanding of maintenance and how to keep the things running well.
I think a point often overlooked is Stagecoach's reliance upon the E400. Despite Souters obvious interest, if ADL were churning out substandard products then Stagecoach would absolutely place an order with someone else until they sorted themselves out.
(03 Aug 2020, 10:44 am)Big O Volvo and Wright are still working together, its the ADL E400 B5TL That has been dropped for whatever reason.
(03 Aug 2020, 12:24 pm)mb134 To be honest I've been on Gemini 2s with faults of a similar standard to those you report on the original E400 - possibly due to the company, but there are a number of Gemini 2s that I've been on that have been a worse experience than an E400. A faultless Gemini 2 (take pretty much any GNE example), is better than an average E400 though for sure.
I'd argue that companies were purchasing Wright products more due to price than quality for a number of years. We all know how shoddy the Streetlite was, and the first few Streetdeck batches - if, as you say, companies were only considering build quality then there's not a chance they'd be going with Wright. I've got no idea how you don't rate the MMC as a product, everything about them looks and feels the part.
I'm not sure the "look at the Metrodecker" argument holds up - nobody was buying Optare bodied double deck products in huge quantities beforehand anyway. On the other hand, Wright had a huge share of the double deck market - and were partnering with Volvo. The E400 has, largely, used the same running gear for over a decade now and not only is it reliable, it means that operators get a better understanding of maintenance and how to keep the things running well.
I think a point often overlooked is Stagecoach's reliance upon the E400. Despite Souters obvious interest, if ADL were churning out substandard products then Stagecoach would absolutely place an order with someone else until they sorted themselves out.
(03 Aug 2020, 2:22 pm)Storx That's very debatable, there was a hell of a lot East Lanc Deckers around with the millenium body and also lots of Scania Omnidekka's (it's predecessor) both which were East Lancs products. Remember Optare was bought over by East Lancs not vice versa who renamed the whole group Optare. It's sad to see the demise of East Lancs to pretty much nothing while they continued Optare buses which bar minibuses never really sold.
(03 Aug 2020, 2:22 pm)Storx I could be wrong, I heard it was with the administration process Volvo didn't get paid so they refused to work with them. Obviously rumours could be wrong.
(03 Aug 2020, 2:22 pm)Storx That's very debatable, there was a hell of a lot East Lanc Deckers around with the millenium body and also lots of Scania Omnidekka's (it's predecessor) both which were East Lancs products. Remember Optare was bought over by East Lancs not vice versa who renamed the whole group Optare. It's sad to see the demise of East Lancs to pretty much nothing while they continued Optare buses which bar minibuses never really sold.
(03 Aug 2020, 2:22 pm)Storx I could be wrong, I heard it was with the administration process Volvo didn't get paid so they refused to work with them. Obviously rumours could be wrong.
(03 Aug 2020, 12:24 pm)mb134 To be honest I've been on Gemini 2s with faults of a similar standard to those you report on the original E400 - possibly due to the company, but there are a number of Gemini 2s that I've been on that have been a worse experience than an E400. A faultless Gemini 2 (take pretty much any GNE example), is better than an average E400 though for sure.
I'd argue that companies were purchasing Wright products more due to price than quality for a number of years. We all know how shoddy the Streetlite was, and the first few Streetdeck batches - if, as you say, companies were only considering build quality then there's not a chance they'd be going with Wright. I've got no idea how you don't rate the MMC as a product, everything about them looks and feels the part.
I'm not sure the "look at the Metrodecker" argument holds up - nobody was buying Optare bodied double deck products in huge quantities beforehand anyway. On the other hand, Wright had a huge share of the double deck market - and were partnering with Volvo. The E400 has, largely, used the same running gear for over a decade now and not only is it reliable, it means that operators get a better understanding of maintenance and how to keep the things running well.
I think a point often overlooked is Stagecoach's reliance upon the E400. Despite Souters obvious interest, if ADL were churning out substandard products then Stagecoach would absolutely place an order with someone else until they sorted themselves out.
(03 Aug 2020, 12:24 pm)mb134 To be honest I've been on Gemini 2s with faults of a similar standard to those you report on the original E400 - possibly due to the company, but there are a number of Gemini 2s that I've been on that have been a worse experience than an E400. A faultless Gemini 2 (take pretty much any GNE example), is better than an average E400 though for sure.
I'd argue that companies were purchasing Wright products more due to price than quality for a number of years. We all know how shoddy the Streetlite was, and the first few Streetdeck batches - if, as you say, companies were only considering build quality then there's not a chance they'd be going with Wright. I've got no idea how you don't rate the MMC as a product, everything about them looks and feels the part.
I'm not sure the "look at the Metrodecker" argument holds up - nobody was buying Optare bodied double deck products in huge quantities beforehand anyway. On the other hand, Wright had a huge share of the double deck market - and were partnering with Volvo. The E400 has, largely, used the same running gear for over a decade now and not only is it reliable, it means that operators get a better understanding of maintenance and how to keep the things running well.
I think a point often overlooked is Stagecoach's reliance upon the E400. Despite Souters obvious interest, if ADL were churning out substandard products then Stagecoach would absolutely place an order with someone else until they sorted themselves out.
As a driver I would say the Wright build quality is fairly good. The 56 B9's are relatively rattle free and the ex London dual door B7's are fairly decent considering their ages. That said when I was at Arriva I though the Wright Gemini dockers on the X12 were miles ahead of the Sapphire E400. The only thing the Wright dockers needed was a higher top speed however if my memory serves me right, there was one that wasn't limited to 50mph.
Fast forward to more modern Wright products and we end up at the Streetlite. I (unpopular opinion coming up) enjoy driving them. Acceleration is good and on start stop town work they are in a league of their own. The Drifter examples have a higher top speed than all the others at Deptford (58mph instead of the usual 50mph) which was handy when allocated to the X6/7. Streelites also climb hills well and probably better than anything else I've driven. The only downside is the poor build quality (rattles and squeaks) plus I've found the Daimler engined ones to have a particular bad idle (akin to the ex London E200 at Belmont). I would happily take a streetlite over a Citaro. I think the Mercs which have power are not a nice drive and the handbrake location is just ridiculous, no matter how I sit, I have to stretch forward to apply and release it. Apart from the horrific rattles, the ex London E200 at Belmont also tick all the boxes for me as a driver, Acceleration and top speed, smoothness of brakes and retarder (i challenge you to find me a smoother vehicle in terms of braking), gear changes were smooth and responsive plus good visibility from the cab and decent handling. The only E200MMC I've sampled are a couple of Stagecoach examples and they seem well put together compared with a Streetlite.
The only new Optares I've driven are the Sunderland Connect examples and they came preloaded with rattles and emissions lights. My theory is the bigger the Optare the worse it is to drive and having driven Belmonts Tempos my theory so far seems to be right. I do wonder what the double deck Optare is like to drive.
In the modern world however it appears buying a bus is based around emissions and fuel economy and now i'd also add the actual fuel used to power the vehicle itself. I'm a big fan (both as a passenger and enthusiast) of the Stagecoach gas powered Scanias in Sunderland but it remains to be seen if gas is the way forward.
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(04 Aug 2020, 9:06 am)morritt89 As a driver I would say the Wright build quality is fairly good. The 56 B9's are relatively rattle free and the ex London dual door B7's are fairly decent considering their ages. That said when I was at Arriva I though the Wright Gemini dockers on the X12 were miles ahead of the Sapphire E400. The only thing the Wright dockers needed was a higher top speed however if my memory serves me right, there was one that wasn't limited to 50mph.
Fast forward to more modern Wright products and we end up at the Streetlite. I (unpopular opinion coming up) enjoy driving them. Acceleration is good and on start stop town work they are in a league of their own. The Drifter examples have a higher top speed than all the others at Deptford (58mph instead of the usual 50mph) which was handy when allocated to the X6/7. Streelites also climb hills well and probably better than anything else I've driven. The only downside is the poor build quality (rattles and squeaks) plus I've found the Daimler engined ones to have a particular bad idle (akin to the ex London E200 at Belmont). I would happily take a streetlite over a Citaro. I think the Mercs which have power are not a nice drive and the handbrake location is just ridiculous, no matter how I sit, I have to stretch forward to apply and release it. Apart from the horrific rattles, the ex London E200 at Belmont also tick all the boxes for me as a driver, Acceleration and top speed, smoothness of brakes and retarder (i challenge you to find me a smoother vehicle in terms of braking), gear changes were smooth and responsive plus good visibility from the cab and decent handling. The only E200MMC I've sampled are a couple of Stagecoach examples and they seem well put together compared with a Streetlite.
The only new Optares I've driven are the Sunderland Connect examples and they came preloaded with rattles and emissions lights. My theory is the bigger the Optare the worse it is to drive and having driven Belmonts Tempos my theory so far seems to be right. I do wonder what the double deck Optare is like to drive.
In the modern world however it appears buying a bus is based around emissions and fuel economy and now i'd also add the actual fuel used to power the vehicle itself. I'm a big fan (both as a passenger and enthusiast) of the Stagecoach gas powered Scanias in Sunderland but it remains to be seen if gas is the way forward.
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(04 Aug 2020, 9:06 am)morritt89 As a driver I would say the Wright build quality is fairly good. The 56 B9's are relatively rattle free and the ex London dual door B7's are fairly decent considering their ages. That said when I was at Arriva I though the Wright Gemini dockers on the X12 were miles ahead of the Sapphire E400. The only thing the Wright dockers needed was a higher top speed however if my memory serves me right, there was one that wasn't limited to 50mph.
Fast forward to more modern Wright products and we end up at the Streetlite. I (unpopular opinion coming up) enjoy driving them. Acceleration is good and on start stop town work they are in a league of their own. The Drifter examples have a higher top speed than all the others at Deptford (58mph instead of the usual 50mph) which was handy when allocated to the X6/7. Streelites also climb hills well and probably better than anything else I've driven. The only downside is the poor build quality (rattles and squeaks) plus I've found the Daimler engined ones to have a particular bad idle (akin to the ex London E200 at Belmont). I would happily take a streetlite over a Citaro. I think the Mercs which have power are not a nice drive and the handbrake location is just ridiculous, no matter how I sit, I have to stretch forward to apply and release it. Apart from the horrific rattles, the ex London E200 at Belmont also tick all the boxes for me as a driver, Acceleration and top speed, smoothness of brakes and retarder (i challenge you to find me a smoother vehicle in terms of braking), gear changes were smooth and responsive plus good visibility from the cab and decent handling. The only E200MMC I've sampled are a couple of Stagecoach examples and they seem well put together compared with a Streetlite.
The only new Optares I've driven are the Sunderland Connect examples and they came preloaded with rattles and emissions lights. My theory is the bigger the Optare the worse it is to drive and having driven Belmonts Tempos my theory so far seems to be right. I do wonder what the double deck Optare is like to drive.
In the modern world however it appears buying a bus is based around emissions and fuel economy and now i'd also add the actual fuel used to power the vehicle itself. I'm a big fan (both as a passenger and enthusiast) of the Stagecoach gas powered Scanias in Sunderland but it remains to be seen if gas is the way forward.
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(04 Aug 2020, 9:06 am)morritt89 Fast forward to more modern Wright products and we end up at the Streetlite. I (unpopular opinion coming up) enjoy driving them. Acceleration is good and on start stop town work they are in a league of their own. The Drifter examples have a higher top speed than all the others at Deptford (58mph instead of the usual 50mph) which was handy when allocated to the X6/7. Streelites also climb hills well and probably better than anything else I've driven. The only downside is the poor build quality (rattles and squeaks) plus I've found the Daimler engined ones to have a particular bad idle (akin to the ex London E200 at Belmont).
(04 Aug 2020, 9:06 am)morritt89 Fast forward to more modern Wright products and we end up at the Streetlite. I (unpopular opinion coming up) enjoy driving them. Acceleration is good and on start stop town work they are in a league of their own. The Drifter examples have a higher top speed than all the others at Deptford (58mph instead of the usual 50mph) which was handy when allocated to the X6/7. Streelites also climb hills well and probably better than anything else I've driven. The only downside is the poor build quality (rattles and squeaks) plus I've found the Daimler engined ones to have a particular bad idle (akin to the ex London E200 at Belmont).
(04 Aug 2020, 1:05 pm)Dan It's an unpopular opinion which I share broadly similar views to you on!
It takes a particular skill to drive the Streetlites, I think, as they're very unique in the way that they do have some odd gear changes. That said it's possible to control them providing you react to the gearbox, and actually benefit from the kickdown to get the extra power you need on a hill, rather than keeping your foot planted to the floor.
It always fascinates me how fast and nimble they are, and how it feels like you're driving quite a small vehicle (especially compared to something like a Citaro, which feels huge and a bit of a chore to drive at times, especially if you get a bad one!) The brakes on them are also perfect for me, compared to other buses (Citaros, Solos, etc).
If the Streetlites had the creature comforts of air con and such that other buses such as Citaros do, and less of the odd gear changes, I think they'd be a lot more popular.
(04 Aug 2020, 1:05 pm)Dan It's an unpopular opinion which I share broadly similar views to you on!
It takes a particular skill to drive the Streetlites, I think, as they're very unique in the way that they do have some odd gear changes. That said it's possible to control them providing you react to the gearbox, and actually benefit from the kickdown to get the extra power you need on a hill, rather than keeping your foot planted to the floor.
It always fascinates me how fast and nimble they are, and how it feels like you're driving quite a small vehicle (especially compared to something like a Citaro, which feels huge and a bit of a chore to drive at times, especially if you get a bad one!) The brakes on them are also perfect for me, compared to other buses (Citaros, Solos, etc).
If the Streetlites had the creature comforts of air con and such that other buses such as Citaros do, and less of the odd gear changes, I think they'd be a lot more popular.
(04 Aug 2020, 1:59 pm)deanmachine I agree as well to be fair, a good Streetlite is a joy to drive, 5375 is currently my favourite bus to drive at Deptford, it's fast, the A/C blows cold, it's quite rattly but I don't actually care on a hot day and I've got a cool fast bus.
People do seem to focus on Streetlites more than anything else though, every type of bus I've driven has had bad and good examples. Look at Citaros 5337/5338 are absolutely awful to spend 4 hours on due to the rattles on them, but get 5336, or 5358 I ended up with on Rail Replacement a few weeks ago and they're really nice to drive. Buses are hand built vehicles that lead a tough life, and it just makes them all so variable that it isn't always just down to whether they're made by Wrightbus, ADL, or even Mercedes-Benz.
(04 Aug 2020, 1:59 pm)deanmachine I agree as well to be fair, a good Streetlite is a joy to drive, 5375 is currently my favourite bus to drive at Deptford, it's fast, the A/C blows cold, it's quite rattly but I don't actually care on a hot day and I've got a cool fast bus.
People do seem to focus on Streetlites more than anything else though, every type of bus I've driven has had bad and good examples. Look at Citaros 5337/5338 are absolutely awful to spend 4 hours on due to the rattles on them, but get 5336, or 5358 I ended up with on Rail Replacement a few weeks ago and they're really nice to drive. Buses are hand built vehicles that lead a tough life, and it just makes them all so variable that it isn't always just down to whether they're made by Wrightbus, ADL, or even Mercedes-Benz.
(04 Aug 2020, 3:04 pm)L469 YVK Question here. How much more fuel efficient is a StreetDeck compared to a Volvo B9TL?
(04 Aug 2020, 3:04 pm)L469 YVK Question here. How much more fuel efficient is a StreetDeck compared to a Volvo B9TL?
(04 Aug 2020, 3:55 pm)streetdeckfan Not sure of the real world figures, and I doubt GNE are likely to give them out, but from what I've read B9s seem to average around the 5mpg mark, whereas the StreetDecks are are closer to 8-9mpgThat is some saving if used in the right (no pun intended) conditions.
(04 Aug 2020, 3:55 pm)streetdeckfan Not sure of the real world figures, and I doubt GNE are likely to give them out, but from what I've read B9s seem to average around the 5mpg mark, whereas the StreetDecks are are closer to 8-9mpgThat is some saving if used in the right (no pun intended) conditions.
(04 Aug 2020, 4:10 pm)L469 YVK That is some saving if used in the right (no pun intended) conditions.It all depends on the route, but I'd imagine in most scenarios the StreetDeck will be an awful lot cheaper to run.
(04 Aug 2020, 4:10 pm)L469 YVK That is some saving if used in the right (no pun intended) conditions.It all depends on the route, but I'd imagine in most scenarios the StreetDeck will be an awful lot cheaper to run.
There's always a massive debate about how Volvo pretty much messed up with the B5TL but is the B9TL all that people make it out to be aswell. For longer distance stuff it's ideal but in comparison to the B7TL they're not half as popular and it's no wonder as in reality places like London where most sales come from as the extra 2 litres really aren't needed. It's no wonder why in reality Volvo went for the B5TL but it just feels like they switched it from too powerful to too weak.
They should really make a 2 axis B8L (7.7L engine) for longer distance stuff could imagine it being quite popular.
They'd have one up on the Enviro and Streetdeck which are both 5/6 litres aswell and aren't ideal for longer stuff either.
(04 Aug 2020, 7:04 pm)Storx There's always a massive debate about how Volvo pretty much messed up with the B5TL but is the B9TL all that people make it out to be aswell. For longer distance stuff it's ideal but in comparison to the B7TL they're not half as popular and it's no wonder as in reality places like London where most sales come from as the extra 2 litres really aren't needed. It's no wonder why in reality Volvo went for the B5TL but it just feels like they switched it from too powerful to too weak.
They should really make a 2 axis B8L (7.7L engine) for longer distance stuff could imagine it being quite popular.
They'd have one up on the Enviro and Streetdeck which are both 5/6 litres aswell and aren't ideal for longer stuff either.
(04 Aug 2020, 7:04 pm)Storx There's always a massive debate about how Volvo pretty much messed up with the B5TL but is the B9TL all that people make it out to be aswell. For longer distance stuff it's ideal but in comparison to the B7TL they're not half as popular and it's no wonder as in reality places like London where most sales come from as the extra 2 litres really aren't needed. It's no wonder why in reality Volvo went for the B5TL but it just feels like they switched it from too powerful to too weak.
They should really make a 2 axis B8L (7.7L engine) for longer distance stuff could imagine it being quite popular.
They'd have one up on the Enviro and Streetdeck which are both 5/6 litres aswell and aren't ideal for longer stuff either.
(04 Aug 2020, 7:04 pm)Storx There's always a massive debate about how Volvo pretty much messed up with the B5TL but is the B9TL all that people make it out to be aswell. For longer distance stuff it's ideal but in comparison to the B7TL they're not half as popular and it's no wonder as in reality places like London where most sales come from as the extra 2 litres really aren't needed. It's no wonder why in reality Volvo went for the B5TL but it just feels like they switched it from too powerful to too weak.
They should really make a 2 axis B8L (7.7L engine) for longer distance stuff could imagine it being quite popular.
They'd have one up on the Enviro and Streetdeck which are both 5/6 litres aswell and aren't ideal for longer stuff either.
(04 Aug 2020, 7:04 pm)Storx There's always a massive debate about how Volvo pretty much messed up with the B5TL but is the B9TL all that people make it out to be aswell. For longer distance stuff it's ideal but in comparison to the B7TL they're not half as popular and it's no wonder as in reality places like London where most sales come from as the extra 2 litres really aren't needed. It's no wonder why in reality Volvo went for the B5TL but it just feels like they switched it from too powerful to too weak.
They should really make a 2 axis B8L (7.7L engine) for longer distance stuff could imagine it being quite popular.
They'd have one up on the Enviro and Streetdeck which are both 5/6 litres aswell and aren't ideal for longer stuff either.
(04 Aug 2020, 7:37 pm)streetdeckfan I disagree that the B5 is too weak, perhaps for what GNE needed for the X9/X10, but in general it's plenty powerful.
The issue is that they don't have a more powerful variant like the B8, but that's not a fault of the B5
Same with the StreetDeck, the issue isn't a lack of power, it's just not geared for higher speeds. At least they offer a 6 cylinder variant now
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![[Image: table2.png]](https://volvobusesenvironmentblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/table2.png)
(04 Aug 2020, 8:18 pm)mb134 The E400 is 6.7L I believe - which has been shown to be ample for the majority of work operators require a decker for, the only real exceptions up here would likely be the X9/X10 and X93.
To be honest I think the B7TL was pretty much the sweet spot. Not too small an engine to stress it out constantly on routes such as the GNE X21 or ANEs plethora of express work, but not that big that it's overkill for a route that just runs about at a max of 30mph all day.
I don't think it's any real surprise that we're still seeing B7TLs used on some demanding routes right across the country. I wonder if Volvo came out with something similar now, given that many operators are seeing first hand how durable the B7 is in terms of sheer lifespan, how it would fare sales wise. I think they'd immediately get orders from Lothian and likely Transdev, but I wouldn't be surprised to see First and Arriva go in on it.
(04 Aug 2020, 7:37 pm)streetdeckfan I disagree that the B5 is too weak, perhaps for what GNE needed for the X9/X10, but in general it's plenty powerful.
The issue is that they don't have a more powerful variant like the B8, but that's not a fault of the B5
Same with the StreetDeck, the issue isn't a lack of power, it's just not geared for higher speeds. At least they offer a 6 cylinder variant now
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(04 Aug 2020, 8:18 pm)mb134 The E400 is 6.7L I believe - which has been shown to be ample for the majority of work operators require a decker for, the only real exceptions up here would likely be the X9/X10 and X93.
To be honest I think the B7TL was pretty much the sweet spot. Not too small an engine to stress it out constantly on routes such as the GNE X21 or ANEs plethora of express work, but not that big that it's overkill for a route that just runs about at a max of 30mph all day.
I don't think it's any real surprise that we're still seeing B7TLs used on some demanding routes right across the country. I wonder if Volvo came out with something similar now, given that many operators are seeing first hand how durable the B7 is in terms of sheer lifespan, how it would fare sales wise. I think they'd immediately get orders from Lothian and likely Transdev, but I wouldn't be surprised to see First and Arriva go in on it.
The Cummins 6.7 ISB unit (250bhp) has been good though over recent years.
And I believe the examples used on the X93 were shot after Blyth got their hands on them first whereas Ashington's original batch were fine bar 7510.
If anything, the E400 & E400MMC has become more "heavy duty" over recent years in comparison to the B5TL & StreetDeck.
Is the E400 really that good though? Every time I'm on an X34 they really don't feel as quick as Volvo deckers, although granted, I drive the Volvos, and I've only ever been a passenger on E400s. However they do feel like they really struggle on the A184, which I've never experienced in any bus I've driven myself.
(04 Aug 2020, 10:21 pm)deanmachine Is the E400 really that good though? Every time I'm on an X34 they really don't feel as quick as Volvo deckers, although granted, I drive the Volvos, and I've only ever been a passenger on E400s. However they do feel like they really struggle on the A184, which I've never experienced in any bus I've driven myself.They're 10 year old and have Voith gearboxes fitted rather than ZF which is the preferred gearbox for endurance, high speed and distance work.
(04 Aug 2020, 10:21 pm)deanmachine Is the E400 really that good though? Every time I'm on an X34 they really don't feel as quick as Volvo deckers, although granted, I drive the Volvos, and I've only ever been a passenger on E400s. However they do feel like they really struggle on the A184, which I've never experienced in any bus I've driven myself.They're 10 year old and have Voith gearboxes fitted rather than ZF which is the preferred gearbox for endurance, high speed and distance work.
(04 Aug 2020, 9:16 pm)Storx The problem is it is too weak though, it's in no-where land. People who want a powerful bus will go for for something more powerful as it's not good enough, the fact Transdev have changed has pretty much proved this.
Those who want a cheap bus will go for a Streetdeck or Enviro as they're cheaper.
Then those who want a Volvo bus and the B5TL is powerful enough will go for the B5LH as it's better for the environment and more eco friendly. The sales for the B5TL has pretty much proved this as there's no-one who really use it.
https://volvobusesenvironmentblog.wordpr...ids-in-uk/
Also if that's true the improvement for the B5TL over the B9TL isn't particually great. Whatever way you look at the B5TL is doing horrendously sales wise in comparison to the B7TL/B9TL and you just have to look at GNE who bought one batch and then went straight back to the Streetdeck for the Angel / X21.
(04 Aug 2020, 9:16 pm)Storx The problem is it is too weak though, it's in no-where land. People who want a powerful bus will go for for something more powerful as it's not good enough, the fact Transdev have changed has pretty much proved this.
Those who want a cheap bus will go for a Streetdeck or Enviro as they're cheaper.
Then those who want a Volvo bus and the B5TL is powerful enough will go for the B5LH as it's better for the environment and more eco friendly. The sales for the B5TL has pretty much proved this as there's no-one who really use it.
https://volvobusesenvironmentblog.wordpr...ids-in-uk/
Also if that's true the improvement for the B5TL over the B9TL isn't particually great. Whatever way you look at the B5TL is doing horrendously sales wise in comparison to the B7TL/B9TL and you just have to look at GNE who bought one batch and then went straight back to the Streetdeck for the Angel / X21.
