I notice that Nexus have issued a tender notice for services in North Tyneside and Newcastle, with a start date of March 2023, and a duration of 1 year.

I'm not sure of the route details, but I'm assuming they'll be the same as now. Nexus usually put out consultations if things are changing and I haven't noticed any.

(03 Jan 2023, 10:25 am)Thomas12 wrote I notice that Nexus have issued a tender notice for services in North Tyneside and Newcastle, with a start date of March 2023, and a duration of 1 year.

I'm not sure of the route details, but I'm assuming they'll be the same as now. Nexus usually put out consultations if things are changing and I haven't noticed any.

So if there are no route changes it will be the following:

18
32/32A
41/41A
84/84A 
317
335
342
M6

Is that correct? Any others?

(03 Jan 2023, 12:09 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote So if there are no route changes it will be the following:

18
32/32A
41/41A
84/84A 
317
335
342
M6

Is that correct? Any others?

1 (Evenings)
19
35
W1/W1A
W2
X46

(03 Jan 2023, 12:09 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote So if there are no route changes it will be the following:

18
32/32A
41/41A
84/84A 
317
335
342
M6

Is that correct? Any others?

The 41/41A is commercial Monday-Saturday daytime from Hadrian Park to Wallsend - the Hadrian Park to Howdon bit is secured, but I can't see that staying as no one uses it.

(03 Jan 2023, 12:14 pm)Storx wrote 1 (Evenings)
19
35
W1/W1A
W2
X46

Oh yeah, I forgot about the evening 1s and the 35. Didn't realise the 19 was tendered and the X46 has only recently been awarded so didn't expect that would be up for tender for March.

W1/W1A and W2 I forgot about, but not as much as the evening 1s and the 35.

(03 Jan 2023, 12:25 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Oh yeah, I forgot about the evening 1s and the 35. Didn't realise the 19 was tendered and the X46 has only recently been awarded so didn't expect that would be up for tender for March.

W1/W1A and W2 I forgot about, but not as much as the evening 1s and the 35.

Yeah was just short tender, believe the 54 (Evenings / Sunday) might have been the same aswell actually.

I am wondering if we will see GCT bidding for less considering they have a decent amount of work in Durham - and they have already handed back the 516 contract. On the downside, this may mean Nexus struggle to cover all services.

(03 Jan 2023, 12:27 pm)Storx wrote Yeah was just short tender, believe the 54 (Evenings / Sunday) might have been the same aswell actually.

Ah, okay. Thanks.

I don't expect the 54 or X46 will change operators, but that's just a gut feeling, and on the basis I can't think who else could operate them.

(03 Jan 2023, 12:28 pm)Thomas12 wrote I am wondering if we will see GCT bidding for less considering they have a decent amount of work in Durham - and they have already handed back the 516 contract. On the downside, this may mean Nexus struggle to cover all services.

Yes, I agree that is a downside, even though GCT often run a terrible service which might as well but exist anyway half the time.

In terms of North Tyneside, I expect GCT will keep the 335 but Phoenix could run the K2 and W1/W1A. Apparently the 342 is going to Stagecoach (not sure which depot, but apparently driver changeovers would happen at either Wallsend Metro or Westerhope depending which depot).

84/84A hasn't been with Stagecoach before, and if GCT don't have it either Stagecoach or Phoenix would probably have it. Can't see GNE or Arriva running it given the driver shortage and it being outside their operating area really (Arriva giving up the 54, 685 and X46 suggests they won't take on any more work). Not to go off-topic but I could see Arriva giving Stagecoach the 47 contract as well as it's now entirely Stagecoach territory.

(03 Jan 2023, 12:25 pm)Thomas12 wrote The 41/41A is commercial Monday-Saturday daytime from Hadrian Park to Wallsend - the Hadrian Park to Howdon bit is secured, but I can't see that staying as no one uses it.

There is no way the 41/41A is commercial. What about the 41A between Wallsend & Hadrian Park. Surely the Whitsher Drive isn't since that's the cut 42/42A

(03 Jan 2023, 1:43 pm)Aaron21 wrote There is no way the 41/41A is commercial. What about the 41A between Wallsend & Hadrian Park. Surely the Whitsher Drive isn't since that's the cut 42/42A

Yes it is

(03 Jan 2023, 2:00 pm)Thomas12 wrote Yes it is

Oh didn't realise

What date in March do these start? 27th?

(03 Jan 2023, 2:45 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote What date in March do these start? 27th?

It'll probably be the last Sunday of March more than likely

Looks like the 41/41A (Howdon-Hadrian Park), 51 (Whitley Bay-Holystone), 84/84A, 552, M6, K2 are all being cancelled from March.

https://www.nexus.org.uk/consultation

(03 Jan 2023, 5:52 pm)Thomas12 wrote Looks like the 41/41A (Howdon-Hadrian Park), 51 (Whitley Bay-Holystone), 84/84A, 552, M6, K2 are all being cancelled from March.

https://www.nexus.org.uk/consultation

That 51 is completely stupid. Holystone to Whitley Bay cut. What would be the point in the 51 staying at all

(03 Jan 2023, 6:41 pm)Aaron21 wrote That 51 is completely stupid. Holystone to Whitley Bay cut. What would be the point in the 51 staying at all

Given that the 51 was recently amalgamated into the 52/53/54 interworking pattern, it would be interesting to see if Arriva 
a. Withdraw the 51 beyond Holystone due to the loss of funding
b. Maintain the 51 beyond Holystone commercially
c. Extend it to Whitley Bay via the 54 route to keep the half hourly service to Whitley Bay

I think option A is most likely to happen because I don't think they would want to risk running commercial beyond Holystone as if it is already funded by Nexus, it probably means that it isn't Viable.
I don't think with the "Driver shortage" they claim is going on, they would want to risk keeping it to Whitley Bay or making it every 30 minutes along the 54 route. This just shows the sorry state of affairs with buses in North Tyneside as yet another victim of Budget cuts and I think more cuts will happen shortly

To be honest, if Nexus/GNE/Arriva got services streamlined & cleaned up, the 51 (at least Wiltshire Drive) and 41/41A extension could at least be hoovered up by "big buses" leading into stable and profitable common corridors. But that's another debate.

As for the 51, I can see something like:

- 310 via Wiltshire Drive (309 also changed to serve High Farm) - part of rumoured Coast Road clean up with all 30x's runing every 20 mins each.

- 22 split 1x every 20 mins to Hadrian Park / 1x every 20 mins to Cobalt. This would replace the 311 and aleviate the need for the 310 to serve Hadrian Park.

- 1x 55 per hour extended to Whitley Bay via 51 route after Palmersville & Holystone.

I'm hoping the 84/84A, 552 and M6 are kept on a reduced timetable.

84/84A&M6 could be merged together

I think 84/84A would be a nice route for GNE to pick up, they've got two sprinters aswell

(04 Jan 2023, 5:40 pm)Unber43 wrote I think 84/84A would be a nice route for GNE to pick up, they've got two sprinters aswell

Probably not going to happen when the route is proposed to be cancelled.

(04 Jan 2023, 4:35 pm)Aaron21 wrote 84/84A&M6 could be merged together

I do like that Idea, It's a shame that they want to cut these services though.

(04 Jan 2023, 5:45 pm)Thomas12 wrote Probably not going to happen when the route is proposed to be cancelled.

The cynic in me says that the decision has already been made about these and the consultation will be ignored considering the routes are already out for tender.

(04 Jan 2023, 7:27 pm)Storx wrote The cynic in me says that the decision has already been made about these and the consultation will be ignored considering the routes are already out for tender.

I am hoping Nexus will listen and perhaps compromise and keep the services on a reduced basis.

Perhaps something could be done with the 84/84A and M6 to create one route operating 2-hourly. 

Earlier on, I was thinking I wonder if Northumberland will go the same way.

(04 Jan 2023, 8:36 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote I am hoping Nexus will listen and perhaps compromise and keep the services on a reduced basis.

Perhaps something could be done with the 84/84A and M6 to create one route operating 2-hourly. 

Earlier on, I was thinking I wonder if Northumberland will go the same way.

There probably isn't any point considering only 1-2 passengers are using each trip.

(04 Jan 2023, 9:09 pm)Thomas12 wrote There probably isn't any point considering only 1-2 passengers are using each trip.

I agree. But isn't that why these services are secured rather than commercial in the first place? Most of these services have low passenger numbers, even the 19, 32/32A and 35 which aren't proposed to be cancelled. From what I've seen the X46 has decent loadings.

(04 Jan 2023, 9:19 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote I agree. But isn't that why these services are secured rather than commercial in the first place? Most of these services have low passenger numbers, even the 19, 32/32A and 35 which aren't proposed to be cancelled. From what I've seen the X46 has decent loadings.

Yes, but probably more than 1-2 passengers per trip. That isn't offering good value, and most of the routes that are being cancelled have alternatives. 

Other secured services such as the 19, 317 etc. will carry a lot more than that on most if not all journeys.

(04 Jan 2023, 9:21 pm)Thomas12 wrote Yes, but probably more than 1-2 passengers per trip. That isn't offering good value, and most of the routes that are being cancelled have alternatives. 

Other secured services such as the 19, 317 etc. will carry a lot more than that on most if not all journeys.

I suppose unfortunately I'm in a minority as a paying customer on secured services. Also, it's disappointing the 84/84A has been quite unusable because of GCT (twice I've been let down by the 84A recently, and I hardly use it). Losing these services increase the bus fares because it removes access to the Nexus Day Ticket. Even on the Nexus site it says multi operator tickets may be required, and even just a day ticket for one operator costs more than a Nexus Day Ticket.

Yes, the 19 and 317 carry a lot more (particularly the 317, but it helps it's Stagecoach it would likely be a different story if GCT had it).

One concern for me is Nexus might be cancelling these services because GCT has a decent amount of work in Durham now, so it could be struggling to cover the work and they are just getting rid to cover up the fact.