Menu
 
North East Buses Local Bus Scene Local Bus Events North East Bus & Coach Show 2023

North East Bus & Coach Show 2023

North East Bus & Coach Show 2023

 
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
 
Pages (3): Previous 1 2 3
3572
09 May 2023, 7:58 am
#41
Its quite sad to hear GNE getting hate, when they've always been the nicest bus company for enthusiasts, so what if a bus rally is turning into GNE rally atleast they care to turn up and offer their vehicles its more than SNE, ANE tend to do.

But avoiding signs is nothing new for enthusiasts, pretty sure there was an issue with the open day when people were going places which they weren't supposed to.
Unber43
09 May 2023, 7:58 am #41

Its quite sad to hear GNE getting hate, when they've always been the nicest bus company for enthusiasts, so what if a bus rally is turning into GNE rally atleast they care to turn up and offer their vehicles its more than SNE, ANE tend to do.

But avoiding signs is nothing new for enthusiasts, pretty sure there was an issue with the open day when people were going places which they weren't supposed to.

09 May 2023, 8:15 am
#42
(09 May 2023, 7:35 am)streetdeckfan One thing I've noticed in the 'bus scene' is that there's a lot of arrogance and sense of entitlement. It's one of the reasons I hate going to the events.

When I was younger my father and his friend had a bus on display at the MetroCentre and I hated every minute of being there.

Our bus was a converted camper and one of the bedrooms had a sign on it saying no entry, and people completely ignored it and went in anyway.

I don't think I was older than 10 and I was getting shoved out of the way by people so they could get their crappy photo.

Honestly, the only positive memory I have of it was my haul of Arriva merch!

I had wondered if things had changed, but reading this it doesn't sound like it!

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

I don't think I've ever seen a sense of entitlement at any events, but I do think there's a level of mistrust between preservationists and those who attend the events, mainly based on a few isolated incidents. 

There's 'no entry' signs galore these days, mainly because of people thinking they've got free reign to use the emergency open button on the doors and have a look around. Whilst I get what the signs are trying to achieve, I've always thought the better option is to actually speak to people who are showing an interest in your exhibit and give them an opportunity to have a look round.

(09 May 2023, 7:58 am)Unber43 Its quite sad to hear GNE getting hate, when they've always been the nicest bus company for enthusiasts, so what if a bus rally is turning into GNE rally atleast they care to turn up and offer their vehicles its more than SNE, ANE tend to do.

But avoiding signs is nothing new for enthusiasts, pretty sure there was an issue with the open day when people were going places which they weren't supposed to.

It shouldn't need to be about comparing them to anyone else. The more that participate in the event, the more people tend to get out of it. It's good that all three of the largest operators in the region have done so this year.

There has been, for a number of years now, a certain amount of snobbery towards Go North East bringing 'modern' buses to rallies. At times they've been accused of bringing too many buses, despite these being more attractive to the younger generation.

Forum Moderator | Find NEB on facebook
Adrian
09 May 2023, 8:15 am #42

(09 May 2023, 7:35 am)streetdeckfan One thing I've noticed in the 'bus scene' is that there's a lot of arrogance and sense of entitlement. It's one of the reasons I hate going to the events.

When I was younger my father and his friend had a bus on display at the MetroCentre and I hated every minute of being there.

Our bus was a converted camper and one of the bedrooms had a sign on it saying no entry, and people completely ignored it and went in anyway.

I don't think I was older than 10 and I was getting shoved out of the way by people so they could get their crappy photo.

Honestly, the only positive memory I have of it was my haul of Arriva merch!

I had wondered if things had changed, but reading this it doesn't sound like it!

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

I don't think I've ever seen a sense of entitlement at any events, but I do think there's a level of mistrust between preservationists and those who attend the events, mainly based on a few isolated incidents. 

There's 'no entry' signs galore these days, mainly because of people thinking they've got free reign to use the emergency open button on the doors and have a look around. Whilst I get what the signs are trying to achieve, I've always thought the better option is to actually speak to people who are showing an interest in your exhibit and give them an opportunity to have a look round.

(09 May 2023, 7:58 am)Unber43 Its quite sad to hear GNE getting hate, when they've always been the nicest bus company for enthusiasts, so what if a bus rally is turning into GNE rally atleast they care to turn up and offer their vehicles its more than SNE, ANE tend to do.

But avoiding signs is nothing new for enthusiasts, pretty sure there was an issue with the open day when people were going places which they weren't supposed to.

It shouldn't need to be about comparing them to anyone else. The more that participate in the event, the more people tend to get out of it. It's good that all three of the largest operators in the region have done so this year.

There has been, for a number of years now, a certain amount of snobbery towards Go North East bringing 'modern' buses to rallies. At times they've been accused of bringing too many buses, despite these being more attractive to the younger generation.


Forum Moderator | Find NEB on facebook

09 May 2023, 8:22 am
#43
(08 May 2023, 6:06 pm)busmanT I understand that as a result of “feedback” some GNE staff received at the event, GNE are considering ceasing to send vehicles to rallies. It doesn’t sound as if they are welcome.

Sounds like our lot aren't welcome either.

I don't believe that we have risk assessed MetroCentre to Beamish via Tanfield, nor was the driver obliged to take the open topper out on shuttles or out for a spin.

Heading out to the Scotswood Road via the Scotswood Bridge is covered by the 6/7 and 22 risk assessments.


There'll be more buses on show in MetroCentre Interchange next year...  Big Grin
omnicity4659
09 May 2023, 8:22 am #43

(08 May 2023, 6:06 pm)busmanT I understand that as a result of “feedback” some GNE staff received at the event, GNE are considering ceasing to send vehicles to rallies. It doesn’t sound as if they are welcome.

Sounds like our lot aren't welcome either.

I don't believe that we have risk assessed MetroCentre to Beamish via Tanfield, nor was the driver obliged to take the open topper out on shuttles or out for a spin.

Heading out to the Scotswood Road via the Scotswood Bridge is covered by the 6/7 and 22 risk assessments.


There'll be more buses on show in MetroCentre Interchange next year...  Big Grin

09 May 2023, 10:04 am
#44
(09 May 2023, 8:15 am)Adrian There has been, for a number of years now, a certain amount of snobbery towards Go North East bringing 'modern' buses to rallies. At times they've been accused of bringing too many buses, despite these being more attractive to the younger generation.

I for one have zero interest in older buses, the L94s are about as old as I can tolerate!

Then again, I don't see the point in going to an event to see the same buses I can play on with a day ticket!

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk
streetdeckfan
09 May 2023, 10:04 am #44

(09 May 2023, 8:15 am)Adrian There has been, for a number of years now, a certain amount of snobbery towards Go North East bringing 'modern' buses to rallies. At times they've been accused of bringing too many buses, despite these being more attractive to the younger generation.

I for one have zero interest in older buses, the L94s are about as old as I can tolerate!

Then again, I don't see the point in going to an event to see the same buses I can play on with a day ticket!

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

09 May 2023, 10:18 am
#45
(09 May 2023, 10:04 am)streetdeckfan I for one have zero interest in older buses, the L94s are about as old as I can tolerate!

Then again, I don't see the point in going to an event to see the same buses I can play on with a day ticket!

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

I don't think you'd get very far telling the driver to get out of their seat, so you can get a photo in the cab, when out on a day ticket though! We shouldn't forget that some families take their kids along to these events, and that's literally what they want to do... sit in the drivers cab or have a good look around inside an empty bus, which they can't really do in service.

NEBPT generally do a good job of trying to cater for everyone.

Forum Moderator | Find NEB on facebook
Adrian
09 May 2023, 10:18 am #45

(09 May 2023, 10:04 am)streetdeckfan I for one have zero interest in older buses, the L94s are about as old as I can tolerate!

Then again, I don't see the point in going to an event to see the same buses I can play on with a day ticket!

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

I don't think you'd get very far telling the driver to get out of their seat, so you can get a photo in the cab, when out on a day ticket though! We shouldn't forget that some families take their kids along to these events, and that's literally what they want to do... sit in the drivers cab or have a good look around inside an empty bus, which they can't really do in service.

NEBPT generally do a good job of trying to cater for everyone.


Forum Moderator | Find NEB on facebook

920
09 May 2023, 11:52 am
#46
(09 May 2023, 7:35 am)streetdeckfan One thing I've noticed in the 'bus scene' is that there's a lot of arrogance and sense of entitlement. It's one of the reasons I hate going to the events.

When I was younger my father and his friend had a bus on display at the MetroCentre and I hated every minute of being there.

Our bus was a converted camper and one of the bedrooms had a sign on it saying no entry, and people completely ignored it and went in anyway.

I don't think I was older than 10 and I was getting shoved out of the way by people so they could get their crappy photo.

Honestly, the only positive memory I have of it was my haul of Arriva merch!

I had wondered if things had changed, but reading this it doesn't sound like it!

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk
Train events are worse. I was with a group at the Crewe Diesel Depot open day a few years ago, and we were just chatting when we were rudely told to move by someone so they could get a photo of a rusty old Class 47 which probably hadn't ran for about 20 years and wasn't even part of the event (https://www.flickr.com/photos/160759456@...datetaken/). Later I was told I'd "had enough time" looking at a steamer and had to move on - again, by someone just attending, not someone volunteering at the event or staff or whatever - I was just slowly walking around it.
F114TML
09 May 2023, 11:52 am #46

(09 May 2023, 7:35 am)streetdeckfan One thing I've noticed in the 'bus scene' is that there's a lot of arrogance and sense of entitlement. It's one of the reasons I hate going to the events.

When I was younger my father and his friend had a bus on display at the MetroCentre and I hated every minute of being there.

Our bus was a converted camper and one of the bedrooms had a sign on it saying no entry, and people completely ignored it and went in anyway.

I don't think I was older than 10 and I was getting shoved out of the way by people so they could get their crappy photo.

Honestly, the only positive memory I have of it was my haul of Arriva merch!

I had wondered if things had changed, but reading this it doesn't sound like it!

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk
Train events are worse. I was with a group at the Crewe Diesel Depot open day a few years ago, and we were just chatting when we were rudely told to move by someone so they could get a photo of a rusty old Class 47 which probably hadn't ran for about 20 years and wasn't even part of the event (https://www.flickr.com/photos/160759456@...datetaken/). Later I was told I'd "had enough time" looking at a steamer and had to move on - again, by someone just attending, not someone volunteering at the event or staff or whatever - I was just slowly walking around it.

14279
09 May 2023, 1:18 pm
#47
(09 May 2023, 11:52 am)F114TML Train events are worse. I was with a group at the Crewe Diesel Depot open day a few years ago, and we were just chatting when we were rudely told to move by someone so they could get a photo of a rusty old Class 47 which probably hadn't ran for about 20 years and wasn't even part of the event (https://www.flickr.com/photos/160759456@...datetaken/). Later I was told I'd "had enough time" looking at a steamer and had to move on - again, by someone just attending, not someone volunteering at the event or staff or whatever - I was just slowly walking around it.

No idea if it's connected and is merely just a hunch, but I wonder what the correlation is between 'spotters' and those on the autistic spectrum, who don't always have the social skills that others may expect.

I'm not saying the two are mutually exclusive, but it may go some way in explaining why there may be a reputation or perception around these events and indeed incidents talked about on this very forum over the years.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
09 May 2023, 1:18 pm #47

(09 May 2023, 11:52 am)F114TML Train events are worse. I was with a group at the Crewe Diesel Depot open day a few years ago, and we were just chatting when we were rudely told to move by someone so they could get a photo of a rusty old Class 47 which probably hadn't ran for about 20 years and wasn't even part of the event (https://www.flickr.com/photos/160759456@...datetaken/). Later I was told I'd "had enough time" looking at a steamer and had to move on - again, by someone just attending, not someone volunteering at the event or staff or whatever - I was just slowly walking around it.

No idea if it's connected and is merely just a hunch, but I wonder what the correlation is between 'spotters' and those on the autistic spectrum, who don't always have the social skills that others may expect.

I'm not saying the two are mutually exclusive, but it may go some way in explaining why there may be a reputation or perception around these events and indeed incidents talked about on this very forum over the years.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

10983
09 May 2023, 2:17 pm
#48
(09 May 2023, 1:18 pm)Andreos1 No idea if it's connected and is merely just a hunch, but I wonder what the correlation is between 'spotters' and those on the autistic spectrum, who don't always have the social skills that others may expect.

I'm not saying the two are mutually exclusive, but it may go some way in explaining why there may be a reputation or perception around these events and indeed incidents talked about on this very forum over the years.
There's some correlation between some but not all spotters, certainly some of those incidents in the last few years have been a result of those on the spectrum but at the same time, not all of the incidents have been committed by those on the spectrum.

Some of the incidents have been spotters on the spectrum getting over excited making things being difficult to be around, at the Metrocentre rally one year, I narrowly missed being knocked to the ground over someone wanting to chase down a GNE bus, there's been instances of buses being entered without permission or even knowledge of the owner/driver.

Everyone on the spectrum acts and reacts differently, I for example and the rather quiet type that doesn't want to escalate or request for things even usually just as simple as politely asking if anyone would mind stepping aside so I can get a photo, whilst that's me, someone else will be the very opposite, last year at Howlands there was an incident where a certain iPad spotter very rudely told an old woman to shift who was stood next to a bus he wanted to photograph (believe this upset the woman in the process), some spotters (autistic or not) are murder for anything that disrupts a photo op, at a rally in the South East last year, I had someone stop to photograph a bus directly in front of me which blocked my shot, in a bid to attempt to get a photo I moved right without thinking, next thing I know, I've got about 8 spotters of mostly middle aged men and a few teenagers kicking off with me over this which whilst annoying was totally unwarranted IMO, worse still when I was already distraught by another incident shortly prior where veg attempted to rush to board an electric Volvo demo bus whilst a full bus load where having to alight and unfortunately I was the first and had to confront them to shift which ended up with a gaggle of teenagers giving me abuse (sure enough this was for nothing as bus went to park up again).
Jimmi
09 May 2023, 2:17 pm #48

(09 May 2023, 1:18 pm)Andreos1 No idea if it's connected and is merely just a hunch, but I wonder what the correlation is between 'spotters' and those on the autistic spectrum, who don't always have the social skills that others may expect.

I'm not saying the two are mutually exclusive, but it may go some way in explaining why there may be a reputation or perception around these events and indeed incidents talked about on this very forum over the years.
There's some correlation between some but not all spotters, certainly some of those incidents in the last few years have been a result of those on the spectrum but at the same time, not all of the incidents have been committed by those on the spectrum.

Some of the incidents have been spotters on the spectrum getting over excited making things being difficult to be around, at the Metrocentre rally one year, I narrowly missed being knocked to the ground over someone wanting to chase down a GNE bus, there's been instances of buses being entered without permission or even knowledge of the owner/driver.

Everyone on the spectrum acts and reacts differently, I for example and the rather quiet type that doesn't want to escalate or request for things even usually just as simple as politely asking if anyone would mind stepping aside so I can get a photo, whilst that's me, someone else will be the very opposite, last year at Howlands there was an incident where a certain iPad spotter very rudely told an old woman to shift who was stood next to a bus he wanted to photograph (believe this upset the woman in the process), some spotters (autistic or not) are murder for anything that disrupts a photo op, at a rally in the South East last year, I had someone stop to photograph a bus directly in front of me which blocked my shot, in a bid to attempt to get a photo I moved right without thinking, next thing I know, I've got about 8 spotters of mostly middle aged men and a few teenagers kicking off with me over this which whilst annoying was totally unwarranted IMO, worse still when I was already distraught by another incident shortly prior where veg attempted to rush to board an electric Volvo demo bus whilst a full bus load where having to alight and unfortunately I was the first and had to confront them to shift which ended up with a gaggle of teenagers giving me abuse (sure enough this was for nothing as bus went to park up again).

09 May 2023, 2:53 pm
#49
(09 May 2023, 7:58 am)Unber43 Its quite sad to hear GNE getting hate, when they've always been the nicest bus company for enthusiasts, so what if a bus rally is turning into GNE rally atleast they care to turn up and offer their vehicles its more than SNE, ANE tend to do.

But avoiding signs is nothing new for enthusiasts, pretty sure there was an issue with the open day when people were going places which they weren't supposed to.
I'm pretty sure at least one of those was there.
BusLoverMum
09 May 2023, 2:53 pm #49

(09 May 2023, 7:58 am)Unber43 Its quite sad to hear GNE getting hate, when they've always been the nicest bus company for enthusiasts, so what if a bus rally is turning into GNE rally atleast they care to turn up and offer their vehicles its more than SNE, ANE tend to do.

But avoiding signs is nothing new for enthusiasts, pretty sure there was an issue with the open day when people were going places which they weren't supposed to.
I'm pretty sure at least one of those was there.

3572
09 May 2023, 3:19 pm
#50
(09 May 2023, 10:04 am)streetdeckfan I for one have zero interest in older buses, the L94s are about as old as I can tolerate!

Then again, I don't see the point in going to an event to see the same buses I can play on with a day ticket!

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk
Same, im not one of older buses, but I like Cadets/ SPD/MPDs, and go as far back as 3945 but thats it for me.
Unber43
09 May 2023, 3:19 pm #50

(09 May 2023, 10:04 am)streetdeckfan I for one have zero interest in older buses, the L94s are about as old as I can tolerate!

Then again, I don't see the point in going to an event to see the same buses I can play on with a day ticket!

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk
Same, im not one of older buses, but I like Cadets/ SPD/MPDs, and go as far back as 3945 but thats it for me.

3977
09 May 2023, 4:10 pm
#51
(09 May 2023, 8:22 am)omnicity4659 Sounds like our lot aren't welcome either.

I don't believe that we have risk assessed MetroCentre to Beamish via Tanfield, nor was the driver obliged to take the open topper out on shuttles or out for a spin.

Heading out to the Scotswood Road via the Scotswood Bridge is covered by the 6/7 and 22 risk assessments.


There'll be more buses on show in MetroCentre Interchange next year...  Big Grin

This sort of ties into what Adrian was saying about the NEBPT removing the advertised shuttles, and to what I was saying about the NEBPT asserting some semblance of control over their own event.

While I appreciate things can always change at short notice, resulting in an attendee or two perhaps not showing up to the rally, there should be some general idea about which preservationists/operators are attending; which are likely to be static displays; and which are open to using their vehicles on shuttles and runs. The site can be organised accordingly with static displays in one place; and the vehicles doing runs in another. Details of where the runs/shuttles are going (including maps/explanation of services covering sections of the route) should be passed to the relevant parties who can then perform their own risk assessments, if necessary, before deciding whether to participate or not. Collate all the feedback received and, if there are not enough participants to do the runs/shuttles, don't advertise anything. If there are enough participants, make it clear that the advertised runs take priority, and if they deviate from the script (thus preventing a scheduled run from happening), they won't be allowed back on site. Unscheduled runs are only allowed if the scheduled runs are fulfilled. 

Some organisation along those lines should bring some order to the event. Enthusiasts can plan their day without potentially being stranded in the middle of nowhere; and NEBPT can manage the event more effectively.
MurdnunoC
09 May 2023, 4:10 pm #51

(09 May 2023, 8:22 am)omnicity4659 Sounds like our lot aren't welcome either.

I don't believe that we have risk assessed MetroCentre to Beamish via Tanfield, nor was the driver obliged to take the open topper out on shuttles or out for a spin.

Heading out to the Scotswood Road via the Scotswood Bridge is covered by the 6/7 and 22 risk assessments.


There'll be more buses on show in MetroCentre Interchange next year...  Big Grin

This sort of ties into what Adrian was saying about the NEBPT removing the advertised shuttles, and to what I was saying about the NEBPT asserting some semblance of control over their own event.

While I appreciate things can always change at short notice, resulting in an attendee or two perhaps not showing up to the rally, there should be some general idea about which preservationists/operators are attending; which are likely to be static displays; and which are open to using their vehicles on shuttles and runs. The site can be organised accordingly with static displays in one place; and the vehicles doing runs in another. Details of where the runs/shuttles are going (including maps/explanation of services covering sections of the route) should be passed to the relevant parties who can then perform their own risk assessments, if necessary, before deciding whether to participate or not. Collate all the feedback received and, if there are not enough participants to do the runs/shuttles, don't advertise anything. If there are enough participants, make it clear that the advertised runs take priority, and if they deviate from the script (thus preventing a scheduled run from happening), they won't be allowed back on site. Unscheduled runs are only allowed if the scheduled runs are fulfilled. 

Some organisation along those lines should bring some order to the event. Enthusiasts can plan their day without potentially being stranded in the middle of nowhere; and NEBPT can manage the event more effectively.

09 May 2023, 5:33 pm
#52
(09 May 2023, 1:18 pm)Andreos1 No idea if it's connected and is merely just a hunch, but I wonder what the correlation is between 'spotters' and those on the autistic spectrum, who don't always have the social skills that others may expect.

I'm not saying the two are mutually exclusive, but it may go some way in explaining why there may be a reputation or perception around these events and indeed incidents talked about on this very forum over the years.
The main difference being enthusiasts on the autistic spectrum are a lot more pleasant than some of the old dinosaurs who are nothing but rude who frequent open days on the railway in my experience more than bus events

Forum Moderator  |  Find us on facebook

[Image: 0a85ed5b4e97324e338555472f222830.png]
northern156
09 May 2023, 5:33 pm #52

(09 May 2023, 1:18 pm)Andreos1 No idea if it's connected and is merely just a hunch, but I wonder what the correlation is between 'spotters' and those on the autistic spectrum, who don't always have the social skills that others may expect.

I'm not saying the two are mutually exclusive, but it may go some way in explaining why there may be a reputation or perception around these events and indeed incidents talked about on this very forum over the years.
The main difference being enthusiasts on the autistic spectrum are a lot more pleasant than some of the old dinosaurs who are nothing but rude who frequent open days on the railway in my experience more than bus events


Forum Moderator  |  Find us on facebook

[Image: 0a85ed5b4e97324e338555472f222830.png]

09 May 2023, 6:50 pm
#53
(07 May 2023, 3:59 pm)pbjd Very poorly organised I found, majority of the shuttles to Tanfield seemed to not operate and then other buses driving about for the sake of it with no forward planning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed, I attended Easter Cumbria Rally (Brough and Kirkby Stephen) and Leyland National 51 (Whitehaven) in April and both were very well organised when it came to running buses around the local area.

NEBPT should take a page out of their book as their organisation skills aren’t the best sometimes.


Sent from my iPhone 13 Pro using Tapatalk
TEN 6083
09 May 2023, 6:50 pm #53

(07 May 2023, 3:59 pm)pbjd Very poorly organised I found, majority of the shuttles to Tanfield seemed to not operate and then other buses driving about for the sake of it with no forward planning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed, I attended Easter Cumbria Rally (Brough and Kirkby Stephen) and Leyland National 51 (Whitehaven) in April and both were very well organised when it came to running buses around the local area.

NEBPT should take a page out of their book as their organisation skills aren’t the best sometimes.


Sent from my iPhone 13 Pro using Tapatalk

10 May 2023, 6:48 am
#54
(09 May 2023, 3:19 pm)Unber43 Same, im not one of older buses, but I like Cadets/ SPD/MPDs, and go as far back as 3945 but thats it for me.

You lot are making me feel REALLY old; the types you've listed are the modern ones just coming into service when my interest first time round started to wane!

REs and VRs are my memories, Olympians and Nationals a bit too modern, MWs and Lodekkas are the "old" stuff, and trips to London were to ride on the ubiquitous Routemasters whilst avoiding those Daimler things that they were touting as replacements .....
Ianthegoon
10 May 2023, 6:48 am #54

(09 May 2023, 3:19 pm)Unber43 Same, im not one of older buses, but I like Cadets/ SPD/MPDs, and go as far back as 3945 but thats it for me.

You lot are making me feel REALLY old; the types you've listed are the modern ones just coming into service when my interest first time round started to wane!

REs and VRs are my memories, Olympians and Nationals a bit too modern, MWs and Lodekkas are the "old" stuff, and trips to London were to ride on the ubiquitous Routemasters whilst avoiding those Daimler things that they were touting as replacements .....

Pages (3): Previous 1 2 3
 
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
Possibly Related Threads…
Replies 37
Views 18216
25 Jul 2021, 9:05 pm
Last Post by streetdeckfan
Replies 34
Views 14700
26 May 2019, 2:33 pm
Last Post by stagecoachbusdepot