Just thought about this. Now Volvo gave the option of the following engines with the Olympian:

- Volvo THD1***
- Cummims L10
- Volvo D10

Instead of using an integral D5K, should Volvo not have sold the chassis as a B7TL2 and used the Cummins ISBe 6.7 as the main engine option? Obviously the D8K was deemed overkill by operators and Scania had the 'heavy duty' market already covered with the N250UD.

Effectively, would still give the ride quality and handling Volvo are known for, but the power and fairly decent fuel economy of an E400MMC. Not forgetting that the ISBe is fairly fuel efficient around the doors too.

In a nutshell, would've been a good 'middle ground' alternative to the StreetDeck for operators who needed something more heavy duty (but not too overkill) and didn't want to go purchase from or deal with ADL.

(19 Oct 2024, 10:01 am)L469 YVK wrote Just thought about this. Now Volvo gave the option of the following engines with the Olympian:

- Volvo THD1***
- Cummims L10
- Volvo D10

Instead of using an integral D5K, should Volvo not have sold the chassis as a B7TL2 and used the Cummins ISBe 6.7 as the main engine option? Obviously the D8K was deemed overkill by operators and Scania had the 'heavy duty' market already covered with the N250UD.

Effectively, would still give the ride quality and handling Volvo are known for, but the power and fairly decent fuel economy of an E400MMC. Not forgetting that the ISBe is fairly fuel efficient around the doors too.

In a nutshell, would've been a good 'middle ground' alternative to the StreetDeck for operators who needed something more heavy duty (but not too overkill) and didn't want to go purchase from or deal with ADL.

I'm not sure the D8K would be deemed overkill, it was just never available for purchase.

The fact that Arriva and others have been buying them with the Evora would suggest there would be some demand if it was actually available.

(19 Oct 2024, 10:15 am)Storx wrote I'm not sure the D8K would be deemed overkill, it was just never available for purchase.

The fact that Arriva and others have been buying them with the Evora would suggest there would be some demand if it was actually available.

I think there was a big push for lightweight vehicles during the middle of last decade though.

I don't think Volvo should've went with the B5TL, as the lightweight decker segment was already well covered by the StreetDeck and to be fair, if just 'pottering' around the doors which they were designed for, a WrightBus Integral chassis would be more than fine.

Maybe Volvo should've offered both a B7TL2 (with the Cummins ISBe 6.7) where something more substantial than a StreetDeck was required but not 'too' substantial......and a B8TL (using the Volvo D8K) where something truly heavy duty was needed and a like for like replacement to the B9TL.

Both would've been good alternatives to the ADL E400MMC chassis and Scania N250UD chassis.

(19 Oct 2024, 10:51 am)L469 YVK wrote I think there was a big push for lightweight vehicles during the middle of last decade though.

I don't think Volvo should've went with the B5TL, as the lightweight decker segment was already well covered by the StreetDeck and to be fair, if just 'pottering' around the doors which they were designed for, a WrightBus Integral chassis would be more than fine.

Maybe Volvo should've offered both a B7TL2 (with the Cummins ISBe 6.7) where something more substantial than a StreetDeck was required but not 'too' substantial......and a B8TL (using the Volvo D8K) where something truly heavy duty was needed and a like for like replacement to the B9TL.

Both would've been good alternatives to the ADL E400MMC chassis and Scania N250UD chassis.

See not sure I'd offer the Cummins, the D8K isn't a million miles away from it anyway (7.7L I believe).

I'd just have offered only a Volvo B8TL. Personally I don't really see the reason for why the B5TL needs to exist, at all. As when you're down to that territory you'd be better off buying the B5LH which pretty much all the London operators did anyway.

Apart from a few orders in Ireland, the B5TL has sold pretty terribly really and I don't blame operators for not wanting to spend a fortune on a vehicle which is questionably worse than a Streetdeck or Enviro 400 MMC and in cities is worse than the B5LH. It's like the bus which never needed to exist imo.

(19 Oct 2024, 12:15 pm)Storx wrote See not sure I'd offer the Cummins, the D8K isn't a million miles away from it anyway (7.7L I believe).

I'd just have offered only a Volvo B8TL. Personally I don't really see the reason for why the B5TL needs to exist, at all. As when you're down to that territory you'd be better off buying the B5LH which pretty much all the London operators did anyway.

Apart from a few orders in Ireland, the B5TL has sold pretty terribly really and I don't blame operators for not wanting to spend a fortune on a vehicle which is questionably worse than a Streetdeck or Enviro 400 MMC and in cities is worse than the B5LH. It's like the bus which never needed to exist imo.

I definitely agree that the B5TL didn't need to exist, as the B5LH & StreetDeck covered the urban segment very well.

However, operators perhaps liked the E400MMC power option (Cummins ISBe) which was a middle ground between economy vs durability, but not necessarily the E40D chassis or bodywork. That's where a B7TL2 would've come in. Something more fuel efficient than a Volvo B9TL in most circumstances, but still fairly durable. Then maybe the B8TL as an additional offering with the D8K.

Using GNE before COVID as an example if Volvo had've offered a B7TL2 and a B8TL:

2016:
- X21 - B7TL2 Gemimi 3

2017:
- 21 - StreetDeck
- X9/X10 - B8TL Gemini 3

2019:
- Derwentside XLines routes - B7TL2 MCV EvoSeti Low Bridge
- X1 - B7TL2 Gemini 3

(20 Oct 2024, 8:33 am)L469 YVK wrote I definitely agree that the B5TL didn't need to exist, as the B5LH & StreetDeck covered the urban segment very well.

However, operators perhaps liked the E400MMC power option (Cummins ISBe) which was a middle ground between economy vs durability, but not necessarily the E40D chassis or bodywork. That's where a B7TL2 would've come in. Something more fuel efficient than a Volvo B9TL in most circumstances, but still fairly durable. Then maybe the B8TL as an additional offering with the D8K.

Using GNE before COVID as an example if Volvo had've offered a B7TL2 and a B8TL:

2016:
- X21 - B7TL2 Gemimi 3

2017:
- 21 - StreetDeck
- X9/X10 - B8TL Gemini 3

2019:
- Derwentside XLines routes - B7TL2 MCV EvoSeti Low Bridge
- X1 - B7TL2 Gemini 3

Even known I get your point and don't disagree per say. Not sure I'd bother personally. It's a bit of a niche need really and considering they're a worldwide company rather than the likes of Wright who can't sell outside the UK. It just seems a lot of work for next to nothing really.

They'd be better just pushing the B5LH / B8TL imo. The likes of Transdev would've likely been purchasers now rather than leaving them for E400 products and there's enough routes around. You just have to look at the amount of companies purchasing the Evoras lately for work that needs it rather than buying shite like Streetlite's that can't do the work (X4/X4A for example).