(17 Dec 2022, 5:16 am)Dan wrote I note that a styled PDF timetable is available on the GNE website for the new 682 service being provided in Hexham in the new year.

Perhaps indicates something is on its way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good news!

From  the  VOSA site

https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.s...1&limit=50

Date received 09 Dec 2002
Effecitive date 22 Jan 2023


PB0002404/401
New
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
685
Newcastle Eldon Square
Hexham Bus Station

PB0002404/403
Registered
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
685
Brampton Market Place
Carlisle Bus Station

PC0002407/186
Variation
STAGECOACH (NORTH WEST) LIMITED
CA685 (685, 685)
Carlisle
Brampton

PB0002032/61
Cancellation
ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD
1685 (685)
Newcastle
Hexham

PB0002032/533
Cancellation
ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD
3685 (685)
Brampton
Carlisle

PB0002032/63
Cancellation
ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD
2685 (685)
Hexham
Brampton

PC0002407/349
Variation
STAGECOACH (NORTH WEST) LIMITED
CA685BH (685)
Brampton
Hexham

PC0002407/350
Variation
STAGECOACH (NORTH WEST) LIMITED
CA685HN (685)
Hexham
Newcastle

PB0002404/402
New
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
685BH (685)
Hexham Bus Station
Brampton Market

3 cancellations for Arriva
3 new for Busways
3 variations for Stagecoach (North West)

Seen someone mention something before and it's always been the general message that Arriva chose to leave Jesmond but curious was this actually ever the case or was it more so they had to leave the place since the lease was up and they had no intention of letting them be there long term so had to no choice?

Obviously beyond that Walkergate became uneconomical to open and then something went wrong at Ashington, anyway know the story there? As it's not been mentioned much either.

(03 Aug 2023, 7:26 pm)Storx wrote Seen someone mention something before and it's always been the general message that Arriva chose to leave Jesmond but curious was this actually ever the case or was it more so they had to leave the place since the lease was up and they had no intention of letting them be there long term so had to no choice?

Obviously beyond that Walkergate became uneconomical to open and then something went wrong at Ashington, anyway know the story there? As it's not been mentioned much either.

On a slightly connected note, I noticed the old Loftus depot has a 'to let' sign on the security fencing.
Think it's a fairly new addition.

(03 Aug 2023, 8:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote On a slightly connected note, I noticed the old Loftus depot has a 'to let' sign on the security fencing.
Think it's a fairly new addition.

Not sure why you'd want to let that. Isn't it effectively wasteland unless it's changed since the last time I've been up there.

(03 Aug 2023, 8:50 pm)Storx wrote Not sure why you'd want to let that. Isn't it effectively wasteland unless it's changed since the last time I've been up there.

Nope, still exactly the same as it has been for, well ages.

(03 Aug 2023, 9:01 pm)Andreos1 wrote Nope, still exactly the same as it has been for, well ages.

Just had a look on Google Maps, looks like it's been tidied up. Still had the old frame up with a temporary fence last time I was there, admit I'm rarely along there as there's no real reason to be there.

Mind I'm really surpised houses haven't been built on it seems an ideal spot.

Totally off topic but the pub next door has a right sad timeline. Nice open pub -> removal men -> abandoned -> more abandoned -> falling apart.

(03 Aug 2023, 9:06 pm)Storx wrote Just had a look on Google Maps, looks like it's been tidied up. Still had the old frame up with a temporary fence last time I was there, admit I'm rarely along there as there's no real reason to be there.

Mind I'm really surpised houses haven't been built on it seems an ideal spot.

Totally off topic but the pub next door has a right sad timeline. Nice open pub -> removal men -> abandoned -> more abandoned -> falling apart.

Bizarrely, the pub still had leccy earlier this year. Assume someone had broken in and turned the lights on. Was weeks before anything was done about it and was either turned off/bulbs popped/disconnected.

That's to let too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj0z4eg7r3qo

flats and shops for old jesmond depot

(01 Apr 2025, 11:21 am)Rob44 wrote https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj0z4eg7r3qo

flats and shops for old jesmond depot

Should call it 'Olympian' house to mark Jesmond's history!

I was sorting through some old stuff yesterday and came across some paper timetables from like 2015 - 2021. I saw the Arriva Jesmond services 51/51A/52/53/54/55 and I was quite nostalgic about them. So it got me thinking when they closed Jesmond Depot why did they not at least try to make them operate from Blyth & Ashington. There would've been people more outraged if GNE/SNE didn't step in with Nexus support on Evenings.

There were loads of ways you could've done it without majorly changing routes or having a lot of dead mileage for buses and driver changeovers...
Some ways could've been 

X7 - No Change to route but interworks with X9
X8 - No Change to route but interworks with the X10
X9 - Divert via Brunton Park 
X10 - Divert via Brunton Park

43 - Extend to Blyth following the X11 route. Longer journey to Newcastle but improves overall connections and doubles the freq. Map
44 - Divert via Hollywood Avenue.
45 - Divert through Jesmond to help with economic viability. Map
46 - Cancel this route. This route can mostly be covered by changing the X9 through Brunton Park 

52 - Extend this to Ashington from Cramlington and slightly change the routing after the Freeman Hospital. Map
53 - Extend this to Morpeth in place of the 43, this will then interwork with the 2. Kirkhill would be served by the 35 instead. Map
54 - Minor changes to routing. But interworks with the X7. Map
55 - Reduce the frequency to every 30 mins but upgrade the route from solos to singles (this could be interworked with X7/X8) Map
56 - renumber the 57A to better fit with the numbering
57 - extend both the 56/57 to North Shields via Marden covering the lost links from the 306. (But it is not essential, as the 1 also does this.)

306 - Terminate and do a loop of Tynemouth. There is no need for this service to go through to Whitley Bay just duplicates everything. Map
308 - Turn right after NT Hospital and divert through Marden to give better buses for this estate. Also differentiates it from the 309 better.

Below is a rough overview of the routes, I did not include everything mentioned such as the small changes to 306/308.

(15 Apr 2025, 10:13 am)logidoodah wrote I was sorting through some old stuff yesterday and came across some paper timetables from like 2015 - 2021. I saw the Arriva Jesmond services 51/51A/52/53/54/55 and I was quite nostalgic about them. So it got me thinking when they closed Jesmond Depot why did they not at least try to make them operate from Blyth & Ashington. There would've been people more outraged if GNE/SNE didn't step in with Nexus support on Evenings.

There were loads of ways you could've done it without majorly changing routes or having a lot of dead mileage for buses and driver changeovers...
Some ways could've been 

X7 - No Change to route but interworks with X9
X8 - No Change to route but interworks with the X10
X9 - Divert via Brunton Park 
X10 - Divert via Brunton Park

43 - Extend to Blyth following the X11 route. Longer journey to Newcastle but improves overall connections and doubles the freq. Map
44 - Divert via Hollywood Avenue.
45 - Divert through Jesmond to help with economic viability. Map
46 - Cancel this route. This route can mostly be covered by changing the X9 through Brunton Park 

52 - Extend this to Ashington from Cramlington and slightly change the routing after the Freeman Hospital. Map
53 - Extend this to Morpeth in place of the 43, this will then interwork with the 2. Kirkhill would be served by the 35 instead. Map
54 - Minor changes to routing. But interworks with the X7. Map
55 - Reduce the frequency to every 30 mins but upgrade the route from solos to singles (this could be interworked with X7/X8) Map
56 - renumber the 57A to better fit with the numbering
57 - extend both the 56/57 to North Shields via Marden covering the lost links from the 306. (But it is not essential, as the 1 also does this.)

306 - Terminate and do a loop of Tynemouth. There is no need for this service to go through to Whitley Bay just duplicates everything. Map
308 - Turn right after NT Hospital and divert through Marden to give better buses for this estate. Also differentiates it from the 309 better.

Below is a rough overview of the routes, I did not include everything mentioned such as the small changes to 306/308.

I think a big part of it was that the company was a mess at the time. They were struggling badly for drivers to cover routes from Blyth and Ashington, nevermind having to cover the 50 routes as well.

As for the ideas you've put together for other routes. Diverting the 44 via Holywood Avenue and 45 via Jesmond wouldn't have been something they'd have been interested in. Those services return a profit for them in general, so making them longer and taking them through Jesmond which is a traffic nightmare could have been a risk to those services.

Realistically, they made some huge mistakes around the time, along with some huge misfortune with prices of materials rising due to the war in Ukraine as they looked to build a new depot in Newcastle. The actions they took made sense and they gave commercial data to other companies who then filled the gaps.

(15 Apr 2025, 4:33 pm)Shrek wrote I think a big part of it was that the company was a mess at the time. They were struggling badly for drivers to cover routes from Blyth and Ashington, nevermind having to cover the 50 routes as well.

As for the ideas you've put together for other routes. Diverting the 44 via Holywood Avenue and 45 via Jesmond wouldn't have been something they'd have been interested in. Those services return a profit for them in general, so making them longer and taking them through Jesmond which is a traffic nightmare could have been a risk to those services.

Realistically, they made some huge mistakes around the time, along with some huge misfortune with prices of materials rising due to the war in Ukraine as they looked to build a new depot in Newcastle. The actions they took made sense and they gave commercial data to other companies who then filled the gaps.

I'd assume COVID would've played a big part aswell? At the end they were basically building a depot in Byker for the 51/52/53/54/55 and it was never going to be feasible whatever way you looked at it since there was space opened at Blyth due to the X10/X11/306/308 reductions in PVR and the 1/2 moving to Ashington since they also had a reduction.

Something obviously went wrong at Ashington aswell, as it appears the last plan was to expand Ashington which would've been pretty cheap but for whatever reason it never happened. Was there ever anything said about that as that seemed to be the final nail for the Jesmond routes.

(15 Apr 2025, 10:13 am)logidoodah wrote I was sorting through some old stuff yesterday and came across some paper timetables from like 2015 - 2021. I saw the Arriva Jesmond services 51/51A/52/53/54/55 and I was quite nostalgic about them. So it got me thinking when they closed Jesmond Depot why did they not at least try to make them operate from Blyth & Ashington. There would've been people more outraged if GNE/SNE didn't step in with Nexus support on Evenings.

There were loads of ways you could've done it without majorly changing routes or having a lot of dead mileage for buses and driver changeovers...
Some ways could've been 

X7 - No Change to route but interworks with X9
X8 - No Change to route but interworks with the X10
X9 - Divert via Brunton Park 
X10 - Divert via Brunton Park

43 - Extend to Blyth following the X11 route. Longer journey to Newcastle but improves overall connections and doubles the freq. Map
44 - Divert via Hollywood Avenue.
45 - Divert through Jesmond to help with economic viability. Map
46 - Cancel this route. This route can mostly be covered by changing the X9 through Brunton Park 

52 - Extend this to Ashington from Cramlington and slightly change the routing after the Freeman Hospital. Map
53 - Extend this to Morpeth in place of the 43, this will then interwork with the 2. Kirkhill would be served by the 35 instead. Map
54 - Minor changes to routing. But interworks with the X7. Map
55 - Reduce the frequency to every 30 mins but upgrade the route from solos to singles (this could be interworked with X7/X8) Map
56 - renumber the 57A to better fit with the numbering
57 - extend both the 56/57 to North Shields via Marden covering the lost links from the 306. (But it is not essential, as the 1 also does this.)

306 - Terminate and do a loop of Tynemouth. There is no need for this service to go through to Whitley Bay just duplicates everything. Map
308 - Turn right after NT Hospital and divert through Marden to give better buses for this estate. Also differentiates it from the 309 better.

Below is a rough overview of the routes, I did not include everything mentioned such as the small changes to 306/308.

Personally if I was Arriva, I'd have looked at:

X7: No route changes, but potentially increase to every 20 minutes to compensate for the X8 and give some actual competition to the train as it's losing badly right now
X8: Withdrawn (See 52)
X9: Change to current X9 route via Bebside
X10: No Changes
X11: No Changes

43: No Changes
44: No Changes
45: No Changes
46: Withdrawn

51/51A: Withdrawn
52: Extend to Blyth via current X8 route from Burradon
53: Extend to Morpeth via 43 Route
54: Withdrawn
55: Dropped to every 30 minutes
57/57A: No Changes

52/55 Interwork

306: No Changes
308: No Changes

There'd be some areas lost but the likes of the 46/51/54 were a basketcase a long time before they dropped them. It's not too dissimilar to things now anyway as changing routes and extending journey times via irritating places like Gosforth has a massive risk of making the 43/44/45 corridor unprofitable as it does well atm.

I still think getting rid of the 52/53 was a big mistake as it opened up competition in areas where they had a monopoly ie. North of Killingworth and they were always pretty well used.

Simple answer to this one. They didn't have enough space to keep everything. Both Blyth and Ashington are rammed full. They kept the stuff that made the most money.

(15 Apr 2025, 7:38 pm)Superman wrote Simple answer to this one. They didn't have enough space to keep everything. Both Blyth and  Ashington are rammed full. They kept the stuff that made the most money.

Precisely this, and it wasn't like they didn't try! There were visible plans drawn up by an external company of the proposed site on Shields Road, and there were also heavy rumours of them looking into purchasing land to expand Ashington. However, from memory, massive cost increases (it was around the time of the Truss budget I think?) saw both of those ruled out in the end. 

I've not seen Blyth since the redevelopment, but I do know that the Ashington yard is full to the brim when all vehicles are back - I think the only way they'd see any further services would be for more boards to go to Alnwick? Although it's likely got a bit of breathing room now that the 43 boards moved over to Blyth.

(15 Apr 2025, 7:55 pm)PH - BQA wrote Precisely this, and it wasn't like they didn't try! There were visible plans drawn up by an external company of the proposed site on Shields Road, and there were also heavy rumours of them looking into purchasing land to expand Ashington. However, from memory, massive cost increases (it was around the time of the Truss budget I think?) saw both of those ruled out in the end. 

I've not seen Blyth since the redevelopment, but I do know that the Ashington yard is full to the brim when all vehicles are back - I think the only way they'd see any further services would be for more boards to go to Alnwick? Although it's likely got a bit of breathing room now that the 43 boards moved over to Blyth.

No arguments about lack of space but there must have always been some space.

You have to remember they've took on the 434, X16, 777, X30, an extra bus on the 57A and recently just 4 vehicles to Blyth from Ashington. 

There's at least 6 PVR there plus the 4 vehicles recently moved out. More than enough for at least just the 53 which is the one which gave most space to the competition at both ends of the route.

(Yesterday, 7:05 am)Storx wrote No arguments about lack of space but there must have always been some space.

You have to remember they've took on the 434, X16, 777, X30, an extra bus on the 57A and recently just 4 vehicles to Blyth from Ashington. 

There's at least 6 PVR there plus the 4 vehicles recently moved out. More than enough for at least just the 53 which is the one which gave most space to the competition at both ends of the route.

Ashington was, until recently, over capacity.

2022/2023 was a wonky time, there's a few factors involved, the big depot which just sort of phased out, the driver shortages which would regularly see the 50 services cancelled anyway, closure of Jesmond, the sharing of Walkergate which just wasnt practical, these group of services never quite got back to pre-covid levels, I mean here we are 5 years on and bus companies are still somewhat recovering, I mean we could argue did GNE ever really want the 351-355, to mean it was just a token "hey we know we screwed over North Tyneside, but here are these new services we're going to run" just always seemed half arsed, with only the 355 being half hourly (now hourly with the 356), and even then it doesnt run til late or on Sundays, the 352-355 all had potential in some way, but give it 12 months and the 352 and 354 will both be gone, probably the 54 also, can you see Nexus wanting to keep the 54 going long term, cus I can't, but it was mentioned in another thread, that this new 356 is probably a way of seeing off the 54/354, but if anything were to happen, is can see it going back to Arrivas 2010 "big chop", 356 will do its old routing, the 353 will become what was the 343 to Whitley Bay, the real mystery is the 355, maybe that will do somewhat its old routing to Shiremoor then divert to Shields, who knows

(Yesterday, 8:13 am)Superman wrote Ashington was, until recently, over capacity.

Aye that's fair, wasn't aware of that. 

(Yesterday, 7:17 pm)V514DFT wrote 2022/2023 was a wonky time, there's a few factors involved, the big depot which just sort of phased out, the driver shortages which would regularly see the 50 services cancelled anyway, closure of Jesmond, the sharing of Walkergate which just wasnt practical, these group of services never quite got back to pre-covid levels, I mean here we are 5 years on and bus companies are still somewhat recovering, I mean we could argue did GNE ever really want the 351-355, to mean it was just a token "hey we know we screwed over North Tyneside, but here are these new services we're going to run" just always seemed half arsed, with only the 355 being half hourly (now hourly with the 356), and even then it doesnt run til late or on Sundays, the 352-355 all had potential in some way, but give it 12 months and the 352 and 354 will both be gone, probably the 54 also, can you see Nexus wanting to keep the 54 going long term, cus I can't, but it was mentioned in another thread, that this new 356 is probably a way of seeing off the 54/354, but if anything were to happen, is can see it going back to Arrivas 2010 "big chop", 356 will do its old routing, the 353 will become what was the 343 to Whitley Bay, the real mystery is the 355, maybe that will do somewhat its old routing to Shiremoor then divert to Shields, who knows

imo North Tyneside badly needs more local services with forced integration with Metro. I know some will whine on about that like it's some obscure idea but stuff like the 351 shouldn't exist in it's entirity. (Should be Northumberland Park to Newcastle only)

They'd be much better extending the likes of the W1/W2 to Northumberland Park at least every 30 minutes and forcing an interchange. It's not like there's not a good service, in the near future, there's going to be 6 TPH on the Metro and 2 TPH direct to Central via National Rail and the current 350/351 at the Whitley side are very quiet as an understatement (1/2 passengers territory bar peaks). 

It'll need a refurbishment but Northumberland Park should be what Four Lane Ends used to be before privitation. It's in a good spot to do it aswell as the services mostly already exist or are very nearby with short extensions ie. the 22 and there's not much doubling back, unlike North Shields.

(Yesterday, 7:37 pm)Storx wrote Aye that's fair, wasn't aware of that. 


imo North Tyneside badly needs more local services with forced integration with Metro. I know some will whine on about that like it's some obscure idea but stuff like the 351 shouldn't exist in it's entirity. (Should be Northumberland Park to Newcastle only)

They'd be much better extending the likes of the W1/W2 to Northumberland Park at least every 30 minutes and forcing an interchange. It's not like there's not a good service, in the near future, there's going to be 6 TPH on the Metro and 2 TPH direct to Central via National Rail and the current 350/351 at the Whitley side are very quiet as an understatement (1/2 passengers territory bar peaks). 

It'll need a refurbishment but Northumberland Park should be what Four Lane Ends used to be before privitation. It's in a good spot to do it aswell as the services mostly already exist or are very nearby with short extensions ie. the 22 and there's not much doubling back, unlike North Shields.

I always thought imo that a "tree" method might work, i.e keep the trunk routes so the likes of the 10, 21 and stuff then have your branches, i.e local routes

(Today, 7:52 am)V514DFT wrote I always thought imo that a "tree" method might work, i.e keep the trunk routes so the likes of the 10, 21 and stuff then have your branches, i.e local routes

It's generally how it works in Europe that, but it only really works if the trunk is some form of rapid transport ie. metro / train / tram. No point having a bus duplicating a rail line which we seem to love up here.

Buses don't really work as a trunk though as it takes too long and it's unattractive, who wants to travel 15 minutes in the wrong direction to then get another bus which uses the same road you could've been driving along 20 minutes earlier. GNE tried it and it doesn't really work, Washington is a prime example of that and it's a bit of a mess really.

Trams etc are generally different as they're quicker so you can make up that 15 minutes bombing by the traffic lights and what not, not to mention the time pissing about parking etc.

Bolton is a good example of that btw, see: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/53.56862...875240!3e3 for example.