(26 Mar 2016, 8:25 am)Andreos1 wrote For years, operators have told us services operate using data from previous years.

If they are indeed doing that, why isn't anything changing? 
If demand is increasing year on year, why aren't operators stepping up and beyond?

In addition that, I would love to know how data is analysed for services that are non-existent on Bank Holidays.
How can they work out passenger demands, without data?

Yesterday, I went inland for the day, visiting areas served by a major operator during the normal working week - when demand is probably lower than it was yesterday (judging by the cars parked and visitors visiting - in addition to those living and working in the areas).
Was there a bus service yesterday? Whey no. Of course there wasn't.

I didn't bother going out at all yesterday, as I really don't fancy waiting round for ages and ages to get anywhere. The service I have on a Sunday is piss poor, yet still far better than what a lot of Durham has. Several villages are without a bus service for 3 out of 4 days over the Easter weekend, yet we're apparently in 2016.

(26 Mar 2016, 6:08 pm)Adrian wrote I didn't bother going out at all yesterday, as I really don't fancy waiting round for ages and ages to get anywhere. The service I have on a Sunday is piss poor, yet still far better than what a lot of Durham has. Several villages are without a bus service for 3 out of 4 days over the Easter weekend, yet we're apparently in 2016.

You have to look at the bigger picture though.  Yes, demand is greater on Easter weekends etc., but the drivers also have families that they would like to spend the time of year with.  Since it's a bank holiday, the company has to rely on volunteers to work the holiday - if you don't have the volunteers, you can't operate the services.  Then you also have to look at the additional costs of operating on such holidays, since the drivers that do volunteer will need an incentive to do so.  I agree that some parts of the region need higher operating levels on these holidays and that a Sunday service is, in the most part, inadequate, so maybe operators could design a 'special timetable' to relieve the crowds.

(27 Mar 2016, 1:10 pm)palatine3833 wrote You have to look at the bigger picture though.  Yes, demand is greater on Easter weekends etc., but the drivers also have families that they would like to spend the time of year with.  Since it's a bank holiday, the company has to rely on volunteers to work the holiday - if you don't have the volunteers, you can't operate the services.  Then you also have to look at the additional costs of operating on such holidays, since the drivers that do volunteer will need an incentive to do so.  I agree that some parts of the region need higher operating levels on these holidays and that a Sunday service is, in the most part, inadequate, so maybe operators could design a 'special timetable' to relieve the crowds.

You do not build Sunday duties into the rota's for a Bank Holiday?  We operate proper Bank Holiday rota's whereby we move duties around to accommodate the work, whilst some of the drivers who should be working on a Bank Holiday maybe on hols or sick (and them duties will be put out as overtime and volunteers would be required), the bulk of the duties are covered within the normal basic week (at Bank Holiday rates).

(27 Mar 2016, 1:10 pm)palatine3833 wrote You have to look at the bigger picture though.  Yes, demand is greater on Easter weekends etc., but the drivers also have families that they would like to spend the time of year with.  Since it's a bank holiday, the company has to rely on volunteers to work the holiday - if you don't have the volunteers, you can't operate the services.  Then you also have to look at the additional costs of operating on such holidays, since the drivers that do volunteer will need an incentive to do so.  I agree that some parts of the region need higher operating levels on these holidays and that a Sunday service is, in the most part, inadequate, so maybe operators could design a 'special timetable' to relieve the crowds.

But there's a business to run at the end of the day. You can't just stick two fingers up at your customers, because you want to ensure that all your staff have a day off on a bank holiday, especially when there's no statutory requirement.

I can't understand why a company would need to rely on volunteers? If you know you need to provide a service to your customers on bank holidays, then you'd ensure that contracts of employment don't stipulate 'no bank holiday working'. I appreciate that legacy contracts in some organisations may include this, but there's no reason why new starters have to come in on those terms.

Having a look around us:
- Arriva Yorkshire: Saturday timetable on Good Friday
- Lothian Buses: Saturday timetable on Good Friday and Easter Monday
- West Yorkshire Metro area: Saturday timetable on Good Friday

Something needs to change.

Completely agree. Retail and other service sectors (GNE drivers are part of this service sector) wouldn't think twice about working bank holidays.

Most companies either pay well for working it or offer a day off in lieu plus your bank holiday allowance.

I'm not saying a full service on all routes but key flagship stuff like the 21, X1 etc should have better than Sunday when the Sunday timetable doesn't even work for those routes on a normal Sunday! I've ended up driving on Sunday's because the 21 is simply totally unreliable .

Looking at some of the routes on a Bank Holiday, I think they should operate to these timetables giving the best of reduced costs whilst meeting demand during the day:

GNE:
- Coaster 1/1A every 15 minutes between Whitley Bay and Gateshead with hourly / half hourly extensions as per usual Sunday timetable to Kibblesworth or Wrekenton during the daytime.

- Simplicity 2/2A every 30 minutes each combining every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Connections 4 every 10 minutes between Heworth and Fallowfield Way continuing every 20 minutes to
Houghton Le Spring during the daytime.

- Red Arrows X1 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- TEN 10 / 10A / 10B normal Saturday service during the daytime.

- Angel 21 normal Saturday service during the daytime.

- Castles Express X21 normal Saturday service.

- Crusader 27 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Red Kite 45 / 46 / 47 normal Saturday service during the daytime.

- Fab 56 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Drifter 60 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Drifter 61 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Loop 93 / 94 normal Saturday service during the daytime.

- Cobalt Clipper 309 / 310 every 20 minutes each or every 10 minutes combined during the daytime.
Note that these could run every 15 minutes each (7-8 combined) with the 309 only continuing between Blyth and Whitley Bay every 30 minutes.

Arriva:
- X21 / X22 every 30 minutes each or every 15 minutes combined during the daytime.

- 35 every 60 minutes during the daytime.

- X10 / X11 every 30 minutes each or every 15 minutes combined during the daytime.

- X16 every 60 minutes between Morpeth and Newcastle interworking with service 35 at Morpeth.
This would provide a bus every 30 minutes between Morpeth and Newcastle combined with service X18
as well as the additional X15 journeys which normally operate.

- Coastliner 306 / 308 every 20 minutes each or every 10 minutes combined during the daytime.
Note that these could run every 15 minutes each (7-8 combined) with the 308 only continuing between Blyth and Whitley Bay every 30 minutes or even every 15 minutes.

(27 Mar 2016, 3:42 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Looking at some of the routes on a Bank Holiday, I think they should operate to these timetables giving the best of reduced costs whilst meeting demand during the day:

GNE:
- Coaster 1/1A every 15 minutes between Whitley Bay and Gateshead with hourly / half hourly extensions as per usual Sunday timetable to Kibblesworth or Wrekenton during the daytime.

- Simplicity 2A/2C every 30 minutes each combining every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Connections 4 every 10 minutes between Heworth and Fallowfield Way continuing every 20 minutes to
Houghton Le Spring during the daytime.

- Red Arrows X1 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- TEN 10 / 10A / 10B normal Saturday service during the daytime.

- Angel 21 normal Saturday service during the daytime.

- Castles Express X21 normal Saturday service.

- Crusader 27 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Red Kite 45 / 46 / 47 normal Saturday service during the daytime.

- Fab 56 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Drifter 60 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Drifter 61 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Loop 93 / 94 normal Saturday service during the daytime.

- Cobalt Clipper 309 / 310 every 20 minutes each or every 10 minutes combined during the daytime.
Note that these could run every 15 minutes each (7-8 combined) with the 309 only continuing between Blyth and Whitley Bay every 30 minutes.

Arriva:
- X21 / X22 every 30 minutes each or every 15 minutes combined during the daytime.

- 35 every 60 minutes during the daytime.

- X10 / X11 every 30 minutes each or every 15 minutes combined during the daytime.

- X16 every 60 minutes between Morpeth and Newcastle interworking with service 35 at Morpeth.
This would provide a bus every 30 minutes between Morpeth and Newcastle combined with service X18
as well as the additional X15 journeys which normally operate.

- Coastliner 306 / 308 every 20 minutes each or every 10 minutes combined during the daytime.
Note that these could run every 15 minutes each (7-8 combined) with the 308 only continuing between Blyth and Whitley Bay every 30 minutes or even every 15 minutes.

The 2c is not a service are you refering to the 2

(27 Mar 2016, 5:49 pm)biglugs@yahoo.com wrote The 2c is not a service are you refering to the 2

Opps, I'll change it!

(27 Mar 2016, 3:42 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Looking at some of the routes on a Bank Holiday, I think they should operate to these timetables giving the best of reduced costs whilst meeting demand during the day:

GNE:
- Coaster 1/1A every 15 minutes between Whitley Bay and Gateshead with hourly / half hourly extensions as per usual Sunday timetable to Kibblesworth or Wrekenton during the daytime.

- Simplicity 2/2A every 30 minutes each combining every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Connections 4 every 10 minutes between Heworth and Fallowfield Way continuing every 20 minutes to
Houghton Le Spring during the daytime.

- Red Arrows X1 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- TEN 10 / 10A / 10B normal Saturday service during the daytime.

- Angel 21 normal Saturday service during the daytime.

- Castles Express X21 normal Saturday service.

- Crusader 27 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Red Kite 45 / 46 / 47 normal Saturday service during the daytime.

- Fab 56 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Drifter 60 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Drifter 61 every 15 minutes during the daytime.

- Loop 93 / 94 normal Saturday service during the daytime.

- Cobalt Clipper 309 / 310 every 20 minutes each or every 10 minutes combined during the daytime.
Note that these could run every 15 minutes each (7-8 combined) with the 309 only continuing between Blyth and Whitley Bay every 30 minutes.

Arriva:
- X21 / X22 every 30 minutes each or every 15 minutes combined during the daytime.

- 35 every 60 minutes during the daytime.

- X10 / X11 every 30 minutes each or every 15 minutes combined during the daytime.

- X16 every 60 minutes between Morpeth and Newcastle interworking with service 35 at Morpeth.
This would provide a bus every 30 minutes between Morpeth and Newcastle combined with service X18
as well as the additional X15 journeys which normally operate.

- Coastliner 306 / 308 every 20 minutes each or every 10 minutes combined during the daytime.
Note that these could run every 15 minutes each (7-8 combined) with the 308 only continuing between Blyth and Whitley Bay every 30 minutes or even every 15 minutes.

Adding on:

Stagecoach Sunderland

3/4/10/11/13/16/20/23 - Monday-Saturday service

5/5A - Normal Sunday service.

8/12/18/19 - doesn't run on Sundays and evenings - try the routes on an hourly basis?

Going back to the topic of buses that don't run on Sundays meaning in most cases you get left with no services for three out of the four days of the Easter Holidays in some places, the following independent operators are running these timetables today:

Dales & District.
29 – Normal timetable
34 – Normal Timetable
54 – Normal Timetable
55 – Normal Timetable
70 – 07.25 from Ripon and 17.25 from Northallerton running only
72 – Saturday Timetable
856 – Normal Timetable (This service runs Sunday's only normally and is part of the Dalesbus network)
159 – Amended Timetable
Ripon, 138, 139 – Saturday Service

Hodgsons Coaches.
Saw a post on their Facebook saying that they were running a full service on the 79 today between Barnard Castle and Richmond.

The Eden.
I'm told that apparently The Eden are running a limited service on the Bishop Auckland Asda Free Bus service today, between around 10:30 and 14:45.

Scarlet Band.
Service 20 which serves Bishopton, Sadberge and Neasham will be running today as the 20 only operates on Monday's so the service runs on Bank Holiday Monday's.

Pop quiz: with today's weather forecast being decidedly "changeable", how many of the services which apparently struggled on Good Friday will need 'bolstering' today?

(Bearing in mind you'd also need to declare your intentions at least 21 days in advance...?)

(27 Mar 2016, 2:27 pm)Ambassador wrote Completely agree. Retail and other service sectors (GNE drivers are part of this service sector) wouldn't think twice about working bank holidays.

Most companies either pay well for working it or offer a day off in lieu plus your bank holiday allowance.

I'm not saying a full service on all routes but key flagship stuff like the 21, X1 etc should have better than Sunday when the Sunday timetable doesn't even work for those routes on a normal Sunday! I've ended up driving on Sunday's because the 21 is simply totally unreliable .

I think that is probably one of the reasons we don't see a decent service.
Drivers welfare is maybe way down the list of concerns - well after margins, profitability and ensuring there is enough staff on duty.

However the industry is historically bad at being an attractive job proposition.
De-reg and erroded conditions haven't helped.
Would operators really want to take the gamble and lose staff in addition to gambling on introducing services that may or may not work.
They don't have data to analyse. Punters have a perception public transport and the percieved poor level of service on a weekend.

I can't see there being a seismic shift in Bank Holiday services at all.
A gradual one maybe.

(28 Mar 2016, 9:32 am)JakeSavage wrote Pop quiz: with today's weather forecast being decidedly "changeable", how many of the services which apparently struggled on Good Friday will need 'bolstering' today?

(Bearing in mind you'd also need to declare your intentions at least 21 days in advance...?)

There was no 'apparent' struggle about it. Stagecoach and Go North East both admitted on social media that they were having capacity issues. Arriva not so, but you could tell from the live map that they were struggling.

People will still go out somewhere, regardless of the weather. The variable is where they go to. There'll still be plenty of travel to and from town and city centres, the likes of the Metrocentre, and so on.

The poor bus service provision is what puts people off. Not the weather.

Looking at stagecoach's twitter, only Sunderland were reporting heavy passenger demand. And we should bear in mind that on bank holidays all their main core routes are now running at 20 minutes, combining to run at 10 minute intervals on common sections, and also that the ecos are running to full weekday timetables (post 1030).

The majority of reported concerns were due to bank holiday traffic congestion. Same on the GNE Twitter feed, although their passengers did appear a bit more confused as to the services which were running. 

I do think the point of folk having different destinations dependent upon the weather is a valid one though. But equally so is the legal requirement to confirm the services 21 days in advance - it's hard enough to to predict the glorious British summer at 21 hours notice, yet alone 21 days...!

(28 Mar 2016, 11:52 am)JakeSavage wrote Looking at stagecoach's twitter, only Sunderland were reporting heavy passenger demand. And we should bear in mind that on bank holidays all their main core routes are now running at 20 minutes, combining to run at 10 minute intervals on common sections, and also that the ecos are running to full weekday timetables (post 1030).

The majority of reported concerns were due to bank holiday traffic congestion. Same on the GNE Twitter feed, although their passengers did appear a bit more confused as to the services which were running. 

I do think the point of folk having different destinations dependent upon the weather is a valid one though. But equally so is the legal requirement to confirm the services 21 days in advance - it's hard enough to to predict the glorious British summer at 21 hours notice, yet alone 21 days...!

So what do operators need to do? Keep things as they are or look to invest in an overlooked period of the year.
It's not as if Bank Holidays are a new crazy invention.

I bet a management team conducting an honest SWOT analysis, an undertaking of the 5 Forces Model would identify weaknesses in their provision, before passngers (potential or otherwise) were asked for thoughts.

(28 Mar 2016, 9:48 am)Adrian wrote There was no 'apparent' struggle about it. Stagecoach and Go North East both admitted on social media that they were having capacity issues. Arriva not so, but you could tell from the live map that they were struggling.

People will still go out somewhere, regardless of the weather. The variable is where they go to. There'll still be plenty of travel to and from town and city centres, the likes of the Metrocentre, and so on.

The poor bus service provision is what puts people off. Not the weather.

The Metrocentre itself is packed. Just left the green car park and there's no free spaces.

Tumbleweed in the bus station, though.

(28 Mar 2016, 11:52 am)JakeSavage wrote Looking at stagecoach's twitter, only Sunderland were reporting heavy passenger demand. And we should bear in mind that on bank holidays all their main core routes are now running at 20 minutes, combining to run at 10 minute intervals on common sections, and also that the ecos are running to full weekday timetables (post 1030).

The majority of reported concerns were due to bank holiday traffic congestion. Same on the GNE Twitter feed, although their passengers did appear a bit more confused as to the services which were running. 

I do think the point of folk having different destinations dependent upon the weather is a valid one though. But equally so is the legal requirement to confirm the services 21 days in advance - it's hard enough to to predict the glorious British summer at 21 hours notice, yet alone 21 days...!

But why would there be an increase in traffic on the roads, if there wasn't a demand for people to get to places? Perhaps some people have taken the car instead, because they don't want to be waiting an hour between buses?

Most of us will be fully aware of the notice required to confirm services, but you wouldn't have a lesser service on a Saturday or Sunday if it's raining, so why a bank holiday?

GNE reported that one of their 21s was running 43 minutes late at one point. That's a bit more than traffic congestion right there. Another from just now: 

"Go North East
1 hr ·
Due to severe congestion on market lane, 45/46, 49/49a V8 and 6 services are operating via the A1 into the Metro Centre"

(28 Mar 2016, 12:30 pm)Adrian wrote But why would there be an increase in traffic on the roads, if there wasn't a demand for people to get to places? Perhaps some people have taken the car instead, because they don't want to be waiting an hour between buses?

Most of us will be fully aware of the notice required to confirm services, but you wouldn't have a lesser service on a Saturday or Sunday if it's raining, so why a bank holiday?

GNE reported that one of their 21s was running 43 minutes late at one point. That's a bit more than traffic congestion right there. Another from just now: 

"Go North East
1 hr ·
Due to severe congestion on market lane, 45/46, 49/49a V8 and 6 services are operating via the A1 into the Metro Centre"

60 min delays according to Michael's post in the GNE thread.

I wonder how many of those would have used public transport given the chance.

Pleased that Arriva Darlington depot have allocated Pulsar's to some services that normally use Solo's on a Sunday. The main one being service 8, just a pity that in typical fashion on its Sunday timetable the two buses are currently running 12 and 14 minutes late.

Enviro 400's are on the 7 today rather than the usual Sunday allocation of the Sapphire Pulsar's. Service 19 however has downsized from a Sapphire Pulsar to a Solo, but the 19 doesn't really get that busy, this allocation is a result of low hanging trees on the 19 route which deem the E400's unsuitable as the 19 interworks with the 7 on Sundays.

The 21 has been completely hopeless today. My taxi driver was delighted mind.

I waited 35 minutes and not one turned up.

Just overtook one in Low Fell and it was completely full. Couldn't pick up at the Cannon.

Of course there's no demand and it's the traffic....

I worked Good Friday on the Metro buses and the contrast to today couldn't be more stark. I'm not sure whether you could throw too many resources to 'variable' destinations such as Whitley Bay which saw excessive demand on Friday. I did the same shift today as I did on Friday... 1049 and 1204 from Shiremoor ... Friday loaded 50 & 73 people, today those numbers were 16 & 14.
On Friday the Coaster buses were also struggling to cope with the loadings, they could have done with deckers allocating given the forecasted weather. Traffic problems were killing everything in and around Tynemouth & Whitley Bay on Friday while there were no such problems today.
Of course there is an argument for improved services although I would add only between 10-11 and 3-4 the main shopping times, outside of those times the cost would outweigh the revenue.

(28 Mar 2016, 8:18 pm)tyresmoke wrote I worked Goiday on the Metro buses and the contrast to today couldn't be more stark. I'm not sure whether you could throw too many resources to 'variable' destinations such as Whitley Bay which saw excessive demand on Friday. I did the same shift today as I did on Friday... 1049 and 1204 from Shiremoor ... Friday loaded 50 & 73 people, today those numbers were 16 & 14.
On Friday the Coaster buses were also struggling to cope with the loadings, they could have done with deckers allocating given the forecasted weather. Traffic problems were killing everything in and around Tynemouth & Whitley Bay on Friday  while there were no such problems today.
Of course there is an argument for improved services although I would add only between 10-11 and 3-4 the main shopping times, outside of those times the cost would outweigh the revenue.

Perhaps not a full Monday to Saturday timetable is needed in most instances. Just a halfway house with a slightly reduced frequency and robust times would suffice enough. For example, the 306 / 308 could easily operate every 20 minutes each on Monday to Saturday timings using a PVR of 12 or 13 vehicles as opposed to the usual 17.

Right then, lets have a guessing game for Tomorrow predicting how late a service (or more if you so wish) is going to be.

Here's mine to get started:

- GNE Angel 21, 45 minute delays.

- GNE Red Arrows X1, 30 minute delays.

(01 May 2016, 4:29 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Right then, lets have a guessing game for Tomorrow predicting how late a service (or more if you so wish) is going to be.

Here's mine to get started:

- GNE Angel 21, 45 minute delays.

- GNE Red Arrows X1, 30 minute delays.

It's the first Bank Hol since the addition of 1 into the Angel PVR for a Sunday.

Forecast doesn't look great which no doubt will affect Metrocentre routes

We'll find out for ourselves since we've decided to not bother traipsing out all together, today.

Had the 59 to ourselves until a moment ago. Tis lovely.

Well this will scupper timetables. There's been an incident on Percy Street. Loads of police and a security van under the bridge. Nexus putting signs up in Eldon Square bus station so I can't see it clearing any time soon.

(02 May 2016, 10:32 am)BusLoverMum wrote Well this will scupper timetables. There's been an incident on Percy Street. Loads of police and a security van under the bridge. Nexus putting signs up in Eldon Square bus station so I can't see it clearing any time soon.

NEXUS putting signs up?, wow this is new!

What do the signs say?

Is Arriva operating a Sunday service today? I can't find any info on times for them.

(02 May 2016, 10:54 am)South Tyne Lad wrote Is Arriva operating a Sunday service today? I can't find any info on times for them.

Yeah they are.