(25 Oct 2013, 4:37 pm)citaro5284 wrote So, 3 times since 18 December 2012, and then you say it is a daily occurrence. The service operates 7 days a week, so since the 18th Dec, it will have operated 310 days and everyone of the other 307 days there would have been a journey terminated at Gateshead purely down to late operation. Somehow, I do not think so, but I will take a look at the lost mileage and let you know.

He's not saying that. He said every time HE is in Gateshead, not every operating day of the year.

I personally find the 50 unreliable when I want to use it, which is Monday-Friday mornings and evenings, and Saturdays). They might run to timetable 100% during the day, but because I don't see it, that's my perception of it. GNE no longer publish reliability figures though do they, so there's nothing to change my perception.

Do any operators actually publish these reliability figures any more? If not why? I've had a quick scout around the website, and the best I can find is this:

Our 2012 passenger highlights

• 72m passenger journeys
  
• 91% customer satisfaction rating from Passenger Focus
  
• 72,000 key smartcard users
  
• Key mobile info and ticketing app suite launched
  
• Key lifestyle bus, car club and cycle hire deal created
  
• Universal under 19s discounts
  
• Over 50,000 Facebook and Twitter followers
  
• 7.3% passenger growth over last 5 years
  

Surely if the reliability and lack of lost mileage was something to shout about, it would have been included in those points?

(25 Oct 2013, 6:04 pm)aureolin wrote He's not saying that. He said every time HE is in Gateshead, not every operating day of the year.

Yes, HE is.....and I quote

'but must happen daily due to lateness' on post 28, hence my reply on post 29.

(26 Oct 2013, 5:44 pm)citaro5284 wrote Yes, HE is.....and I quote

'but must happen daily due to lateness' on post 28, hence my reply on post 29.

He mentioned every time he is in Gateshead twice, and the quote you took once. I suppose taking selective quotes is easier though, so I'll give you that one.

(26 Oct 2013, 5:52 pm)aureolin wrote He mentioned every time he is in Gateshead twice, and the quote you took once. I suppose taking selective quotes is easier though, so I'll give you that one.

Not selective quotes or the amount of times it is said at all. Adam is right when he said the three occasions he has been to Gateshead there has been a 56 on the layover area, and I was not disputing that, however I was disputing the other part of the statement. You should not making sweeping statements in a public forum (like the one he did) without ensure the statement is accurate and you have the facts to back it up - in this case, unless you have been at Gateshead everyday since 18 Dec, you cannot make a statement as he did.

(26 Oct 2013, 7:08 pm)Liam wrote I would happily but £20 on at least one 56 daily being late. Adam has made an association between the frequent delays the service suffers and terminating early at Gateshead. I see no problem with that association.

Thsnks Aureolin and Liam, that is exactly what I was saying, obviously not clearly enough for Citaro5284 to understand, so I shall apologize for that, if we can get back on topic that would be great.

(26 Oct 2013, 7:08 pm)Liam wrote I would happily but £20 on at least one 56 daily being late. Adam has made an association between the frequent delays the service suffers and terminating early at Gateshead. I see no problem with that association.

To be fair I was in Gateshead on Monday and a 56 was turned short then too (a Northern Cadet as it were... Passengers shot on the one behind etc). It happens every day and I'd have to argue its better than missing a whole service due to driver losing break etc.

(26 Oct 2013, 7:44 pm)tyresmoke wrote To be fair I was in Gateshead on Monday and a 56 was turned short then too (a Northern Cadet as it were... Passengers shot on the one behind etc). It happens every day and I'd have to argue its better than missing a whole service due to driver losing break etc.

How late are these buses when they are stopped short and regulated?

Three services I have been on this week (two of which were gold standard) were at least 10mins late - which is obviously a small percentage.

At least 95 % of our journeys will run ‘on time’ – that’s no more than 5 minutes late or 1 minute early

I have also seen Red Kites, Angels, Prince Bishops and Laser services running in pairs.
Going by the frequency of these services alone, one of them is more than 5 minutes late or 1 minute early.

I have seen various services run short or depart NIS when running late.

Others have problems with their local services.

Staff have complained openly on the fb page of running times.

Granted not all are Gold Standard, but if these services are used as a representative proportion, I struggle to see how this 95% is maintained.

When these buses are regulated, then a service is missed - whether it is a proportion or the entire route
Passengers are left standing - whether the driver gets their break or not.

Making an unrealistic promise about the '95%' and appeasing VOSA by whichever means, doesn't assist the passenger...

In one Journey on the 56 from Sunderland to Newcastle back it takes 2Hours and 8 Minutes and stops a Total of 85 Times. So as Result of Stopping this many times and the impact of the School Run/Rush Hour Traffic at Various Points of the Service is it no wonder the odd journey ends up Terminating at Gateshead due to being over 10 Minutes late, Not really worth heading into Newcastle and becoming even later as a Result.

(26 Oct 2013, 8:58 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote In one Journey on the 56 from Sunderland to Newcastle back it takes 2Hours and 8 Minutes and stops a Total of 85 Times. So as Result of Stopping this many times and the impact of the School Run/Rush Hour Traffic at Various Points of the Service is it no wonder the odd journey ends up Terminating at Gateshead due to being over 10 Minutes late, Not really worth heading into Newcastle and becoming even later as a Result.

According to the 56 timetable, it takes 1 hour and 10 minutes to get from Sunderland to Newcastle and 1 hour and 12 minutes back to Sunderland from Newcastle.

I find that Go North East have quite tight timetables on certain routes. For example, I've found that now that the 27 has had a few extra minutes padded in to the timetable (albeit on a very odd 10/11 minute frequency), reliability has increased greatly. I personally think that the 58 could do with a few minutes padded in to the timetable too.

i have mentioned it before, but how much do the core routes contribute to these problems?

Say there are roadworks in pity me. This will cause chaos to anyone wanting to get a bus on a bus at any point between durham and newcastle.
If there was a reliable alternative (like in the past such as the 21a and 21b) between chester and newcastle, then not only would these services offer relief for passengers, it would also assist with the perception of the 21 being unreliable.

If 21's are getting held up going into durham and again on the way out, services will be run short, regulated and passengers will complain.

Obviously you can't have a bus to all destinations or in all directions, just incase there are roadworks in pity me, but by concentrating a core route, down a particular avenue, whilst axing other services, it doesn't take much for delays or regulated services to start taking hold.

This will be true for other services, formed as an amalgimation of other routes such as the 56, x1 etc.

What it will also lead to is the sudden vanishing of open reporting on punctuality and wishy washy gold standard promises.

Ps the shift button is still giving me gyp.

Equally, the opposite could be argued: customers are more likely to notice a bus missing if the frequency is every 30 minutes, rather than a frequently scheduled service every few minutes?

(28 Oct 2013, 6:37 pm)JakeSavage wrote Equally, the opposite could be argued: customers are more likely to notice a bus missing if the frequency is every 30 minutes, rather than a frequently scheduled service every few minutes?

I'm talking about the core services, concentrated down a particular route.

In the past, 3-4 individual services all met/diverged at a certain point.
The 723 never had the perception the 21 has, because there were other distance and local services which would pick up the slack.

More services along Durham Road in Low Fell just a few years back, offered a range of destinations as well as a greater frequency.
Core routes replaced them, with limited destinations, along with wishy washy Gold Standard promises.
Roadworks in Pity Me, affected 2-3 of the dozen or so services just a few years ago.
Those roadworks would now affect 2/3 of all buses going through Low Fell and the promise goes out of the window.

(26 Oct 2013, 8:03 pm)Andreos1 wrote How late are these buses when they are stopped short and regulated?

Three services I have been on this week (two of which were gold standard) were at least 10mins late - which is obviously a small percentage.


I have also seen Red Kites, Angels, Prince Bishops and Laser services running in pairs.
Going by the frequency of these services alone, one of them is more than 5 minutes late or 1 minute early.

I have seen various services run short or depart NIS when running late.

Others have problems with their local services.

Staff have complained openly on the fb page of running times.

Granted not all are Gold Standard, but if these services are used as a representative proportion, I struggle to see how this 95% is maintained.

When these buses are regulated, then a service is missed - whether it is a proportion or the entire route
Passengers are left standing - whether the driver gets their break or not.

Making an unrealistic promise about the '95%' and appeasing VOSA by whichever means, doesn't assist the passenger...

Talking about services running in pairs, the 60 and 42 is shocking at times, they often run in pairs, on the 60 I have seen it run in 3's at points with pairs holding up the rear a single number of minutes behind

(29 Oct 2013, 10:44 am)fozzovmurton wrote Talking about services running in pairs, the 60 and 42 is shocking at times, they often run in pairs, on the 60 I have seen it run in 3's at points with pairs holding up the rear a single number of minutes behind

The 42 I would argue is worse than the 60. The 60 gets 5 minutes layover at Sunderland & just 1 minute at Parkside, but also gets 1 minute stand-by at Seaham Interchange which can help in lateness. The 42 however only gets 2 minutes stand-by at Sunderland Interchange and then 1 minute at Vicarage Estate. The 42 is one of those services where reliability is really bad I've noticed buses running in pairs much more frequently than the 60/20/56 etc. The 42 runs an every 11 minute timetable after 2:30pm, I assume this is to improve the terrible reliability.

I don't get how GNE can promise this 'Gold Standard' promise of 'Buses can run up to 5 minutes late' when there services don't have that time to make up at interchanges? The X35 is this included in 'Gold Standard'? X35 gets 3 Mins layover at Hartlepool & 4 minutes at Sunderland, but if this service runs exactly 5 minutes late (as is just within 'Gold Standard On Time') it's getting into Sunderland 1 minute after departure and then the four minutes is needed to load passengers on it never leaves on time so an extra two minutes, it's running out 6 Minutes and then there's not much chance to recover. So how is this service ever ment to recover any lateness? Its not.

(29 Oct 2013, 11:18 am)CatsFast101 wrote The 42 I would argue is worse than the 60. The 60 gets 5 minutes layover at Sunderland & just 1 minute at Parkside, but also gets 1 minute stand-by at Seaham Interchange which can help in lateness. The 42 however only gets 2 minutes stand-by at Sunderland Interchange and then 1 minute at Vicarage Estate. The 42 is one of those services where reliability is really bad I've noticed buses running in pairs much more frequently than the 60/20/56 etc. The 42 runs an every 11 minute timetable after 2:30pm, I assume this is to improve the terrible reliability.

I don't get how GNE can promise this 'Gold Standard' promise of 'Buses can run up to 5 minutes late' when there services don't have that time to make up at interchanges? The X35 is this included in 'Gold Standard'? X35 gets 3 Mins layover at Hartlepool & 4 minutes at Sunderland, but if this service runs exactly 5 minutes late (as is just within 'Gold Standard On Time') it's getting into Sunderland 1 minute after departure and then the four minutes is needed to load passengers on it never leaves on time so an extra two minutes, it's running out 6 Minutes and then there's not much chance to recover. So how is this service ever ment to recover any lateness? Its not.

and a perfect example of how a gold standard isn't worth the paper it is written on.

Yesterday I seen one 56 going towards Gateshead Interchange from Sunderland NIS, and seen another coming from Gateshead Interchange towards Sunderland NIS. Both around 18.00.

Today I seen two 56 going towards Gateshead Interchange from Sunderland within 5 mins of each other, at around 17.00. Both NIS.

All four buses looked like they had a handful of passengers on, so I can only assume they were being "regulated".

Does all use of 'Not in Service' get reported on?

(01 Nov 2013, 5:55 pm)aureolin wrote Yesterday I seen one 56 going towards Gateshead Interchange from Sunderland NIS, and seen another coming from Gateshead Interchange towards Sunderland NIS. Both around 18.00.

Today I seen two 56 going towards Gateshead Interchange from Sunderland within 5 mins of each other, at around 17.00. Both NIS.

All four buses looked like they had a handful of passengers on, so I can only assume they were being "regulated".

Does all use of 'Not in Service' get reported on?

I'm on my phone, so it is a faff downloading documents from the internet, to then upload back on here.
Just googled 'vosa procedures for reporting pcv punctuality' and there are some interesting documents available to view.

(01 Nov 2013, 6:02 pm)Andreos1 wrote I'm on my phone, so it is a faff downloading documents from the internet, to then upload back on here.
Just googled 'vosa procedures for reporting pcv punctuality' and there are some interesting documents available to view.

For those wanting a direct download link (it's a massive document and you can't attach it as an attachment on here as a result), click here.

(01 Nov 2013, 6:10 pm)Dan wrote For those wanting a direct download link (it's a massive document and you can't attach it as an attachment on here as a result), click here.

I've PDF'd the document (now less than 1MB!) so it can be uploaded here. Handy for archive purposes.

Can anyone confirm or provide a list of the GNE Gold Standard routes please?

(05 Dec 2013, 11:14 am)andreos1 wrote Can anyone confirm or provide a list of the GNE Gold Standard routes please?

I think it's a redundant scheme nowadays. The advantages of the Gold Standard scheme that still exist on services are now available on most services (owing to large fleet investment, subsequently allowing for a large amount of cascades/withdrawals).

(05 Dec 2013, 11:59 am)Dan wrote I think it's a redundant scheme nowadays. The advantages of the Gold Standard scheme that still exist on services are now available on most services (owing to large fleet investment, subsequently allowing for a large amount of cascades/withdrawals).

They're still advertising it...

(05 Dec 2013, 12:23 pm)andreos1 wrote They're still advertising it...

Where have they advertised it as of late?
They have it on their website still, but I haven't seen the page referenced/updated for quite a while now...

The website isn't exactly great... full of outdated information and I find it isn't exactly great to look at too.

(05 Dec 2013, 12:29 pm)Dan wrote Where have they advertised it as of late?
They have it on their website still, but I haven't seen the page referenced/updated for quite a while now...

The website isn't exactly great... full of outdated information and I find it isn't exactly great to look at too.

As far as I'm aware - just there, on their website.

Agree, the website isn't too good.
But if they are advertising it on their website - then the promise needs to be maintained.

If the Gold Standard doesn't exist any more or is redundant, then they need to take it off the website.

To be honest, apart from the fixtures and fittings on a bus, how much of the promise was ever maintained?

Gold Standard
At least 95 % of our journeys will run ‘on time’ – that’s no more than 5 minutes late or 1 minute early

Open reporting of our punctuality and
reliability performance to customers

We will do our utmost to communicate
to customers when disruption to service
occurs

If events within our control lead to a
journey being delayed by 20 minutes or
more we will refund the fare via voucher
of BuzzFare ticket

If events within our control mean no
journey is provided within 30 minutes of
schedule time we would refund the cost
of a taxi

The Gold Standard in safe, clean comfortable buses

State of the art buses professionally
maintained to the highest standards

Full cctv coverage and recording

Information screens (not X9 or X10)

Comfortable seats for all and priority
seating and a wheelchair bay for elderly
and disabled customers Regular cleaning every night and during
the day.

The Gold Standard working with you Comprehensive guides with full timetable and route map, delivered door to door at key areas along the route, at least 14 days ahead of any changes.

Service updates and news of special offers

Regular ‘Open Line’ sessions every Wednesday

Living yards from a bus stop on a Gold Standard route and using it on a regular basis, I saw very little difference between this and non Gold Standard routes, apart from vehicles used.