(25 Aug 2017, 8:18 am)Michael wrote Will 3941, 3942, 3963 and 3964 remain at Riverside as spares to replace the Plaxton Presidents?

Presidents only at Riverside for Metro replacement

(25 Aug 2017, 8:33 am)JP6004 wrote Presidents only at Riverside for Metro replacement

Oh aye, Chester or Washington?, as they're the only other Depots with the Volvo B7TL's? 

(25 Aug 2017, 8:39 am)Michael wrote Oh aye, Chester or Washington?, as they're the only other Depots with the Volvo B7TL's? 

Or percy main too

(24 Aug 2017, 11:48 pm)komnicity4659 wrote Don't think its even possible

Most likely not - certainly isn't with my laptop anyway!

(25 Aug 2017, 10:05 am)Jordan2104 wrote Or percy main too

The B7's i meant were the Wright B7's. (currently spare/allocatedfor the Red Arrows/Angel/TEN etc.

I would of thought Depot Standardisation would take place and they would head to Depots which already have them.

(25 Aug 2017, 8:39 am)Michael wrote Oh aye, Chester or Washington?, as they're the only other Depots with the Volvo B7TL's? 

Could easily see 3941 and 3942 to Washington and 3963 and 3964 to Chester-le-Street...unless they intend on sending one to Crook for the X21 or to Percy Main to provide an additional more modern spare vehicle.

(24 Aug 2017, 11:10 pm)Jimmi wrote Problem with coaches on the X9/X10 are: they would be a much more expensive to buy and run than buses and how many years would you expect to use them on the X9/X10 for? Then there is the question what would you do with them when it's time to replace them, can't really displace them onto another service and who would want buy coaches with such high mileage? Also, coaches have not proven popular with the elderly and disabled in the area previously on the likes of the Arriva X66.

Go North East seem to be a similar thing with the X9/X10 as Lothian Buses with their Airlink 100 service which is buy buses for the service and then replace them a few years down the line onto a less demanding service(s).

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How many elderley and disabled people on a daily basis across the country use the likes of National Express, National Holidays, Megabus, JH Coaches, Oxford Tube, Greenline, Shearings which are all coach operated?

Answer to that question is "Thousands" without any complaints, why should the X9/X10 be an exception to the above.

Go North East has just withdrawn a batch of Caetano Levantes after 9 Years on National Express, so clearly if coaches were purchased they would be allocated to the X9/X10 for quite some time.

(25 Aug 2017, 10:24 pm)Malarkey wrote How many elderley and disabled people on a daily basis across the country use the likes of National Express, National Holidays, Megabus, JH Coaches, Oxford Tube, Greenline, Shearings which are all coach operated?

Answer to that question is "Thousands" without any complaints, why should the X9/X10 be an exception to the above.

Go North East has just withdrawn a batch of Caetano Levantes after 9 Years on National Express, so clearly if coaches were purchased they would be allocated to the X9/X10 for quite some time.

Services by such operators are not normal stage-carriage services or if they are, are more limited stop than the likes of X9/X10. Limited stop ones in particular will use a bus station, with a DDA coach only being able to use it's electric wheelchair lift at a select few bus stops safely, like bus stations. A low entrance vehicle like the new B8RLE Leopard would be the closest choice to a 'coach' with the current setup of the Tyne Tees Xpress services, or some other Interdecker like the Elite i, but that's quite an overkill and sizeable investment.

(25 Aug 2017, 11:52 pm)RBZ 5459 wrote Services by such operators are not normal stage-carriage services or if they are, are more limited stop than the likes of X9/X10. Limited stop ones in particular will use a bus station, with a DDA coach only being able to use it's electric wheelchair lift at a select few bus stops safely, like bus stations. A low entrance vehicle like the new B8RLE Leopard would be the closest choice to a 'coach' with the current setup of the Tyne Tees Xpress services, or some other Interdecker like the Elite i, but that's quite an overkill and sizeable investment.

Another issue with using something like the Elite I would be length,as i imagine it would be abit of pain getting it in/out of Peterlee BS & Newcastle EQ,So if these was bought it would be more likely they would have to move some stops about,whilst the likes of Oxford Tube or NE do not have the problem (Unless they got NX permission to use the Coach Stn,but then people would possibly complain that the services have been moved to the bottom end of the City)

(26 Aug 2017, 12:09 am)callum2015 wrote Another issue with using something like the Elite I would be length,as i imagine it would be abit of pain getting it in/out of Peterlee BS & Newcastle EQ,So if these was bought it would be more likely they would have to move some stops about,whilst the likes of Oxford Tube or NE do not have the problem (Unless they got NX permission to use the Coach Stn,but then people would possibly complain that the services have been moved to the bottom end of the City)

I don't think this would be an issue. Stagecoach Bluebird and East Scotland both use Elite i's on intercity service work, serving bus stations with no real issue at all.

(26 Aug 2017, 7:30 am)mb134 wrote I don't think this would be an issue. Stagecoach Bluebird and East Scotland both use Elite i's on intercity service work, serving bus stations with no real issue at all.

I don't think Eldon Square Bus Station can be compared to many of the bus stations in East Scotland - I agree with the OP that large coaches serving Eldon Square would be a recipe for disaster. Peterlee should be alright, albeit a tight squeeze, as National Express services use this bus station.

If ever there was a contest for the most badly designed bus station...

(25 Aug 2017, 11:52 pm)RBZ 5459 wrote Services by such operators are not normal stage-carriage services or if they are, are more limited stop than the likes of X9/X10. Limited stop ones in particular will use a bus station, with a DDA coach only being able to use it's electric wheelchair lift at a select few bus stops safely, like bus stations. A low entrance vehicle like the new B8RLE Leopard would be the closest choice to a 'coach' with the current setup of the Tyne Tees Xpress services, or some other Interdecker like the Elite i, but that's quite an overkill and sizeable investment.

The B8RLE Leopard would be great, but it simply doesn't have sufficient capacity for the X9/X10 (it only has 53 seats). That's before you take into consideration any growth which stems from the new vehicles entering service and the re-routing of the X10 through Dalton Park.

One of the things being promoted is the fact that the new B5TLs have a marginally higher capacity than the current allocation - the extra few seats on the Volvo B5TLs are desirable at peak times.

Providing Go North East doesn't leave it 'too late' before investing again, I don't think there's an issue with renewing the fleet of the X9/X10 every few years. That said, I don't think they'll be able to give it another 5 years with this vehicle allocation...

What is the maximum length of vehicle that could be used on the X9/X10?

Given the prior discussion, I'd say anything that fits in Eldon Square [emoji14]

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(26 Aug 2017, 8:06 am)Dan wrote I don't think Eldon Square Bus Station can be compared to many of the bus stations in East Scotland - I agree with the OP that large coaches serving Eldon Square would be a recipe for disaster. Peterlee should be alright, albeit a tight squeeze, as National Express services use this bus station.

If ever there was a contest for the most badly designed bus station...

I agree that Eldon Square is not a well designed bus station in the slightest, though I assumed the steering rear axle of larger coaches would help massively when turning at the bottom of the bus station?

I'm not at all sure how long the DAF coaches that Arriva used on the 685 were, but I can't imagine them being massively shorter?

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(26 Aug 2017, 8:10 am)Dan wrote One of the things being promoted is the fact that the new B5TLs have a marginally higher capacity than the current allocation - the extra few seats on the Volvo B5TLs are desirable at peak times.

I was surprised at how many seats there seem to be downstairs on the B5TLs, they seem to be slightly longer than the current B9TLs? I assume this longer length, and therefore additional overall capacity, allowed Go North East to improve the overall specification of the bus in terms of installing tables without reducing capacity from the current allocation?

(25 Aug 2017, 10:24 pm)Malarkey wrote How many elderley and disabled people on a daily basis across the country use the likes of National Express, National Holidays, Megabus, JH Coaches, Oxford Tube, Greenline, Shearings which are all coach operated?

Answer to that question is "Thousands" without any complaints, why should the X9/X10 be an exception to the above.

Go North East has just withdrawn a batch of Caetano Levantes after 9 Years on National Express, so clearly if coaches were purchased they would be allocated to the X9/X10 for quite some time.

Those are all long distance operators so hardly comparable. Some people using the x9 and X10 are only making 10-15 minute journeys.

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(26 Aug 2017, 8:06 am)Dan wrote I don't think Eldon Square Bus Station can be compared to many of the bus stations in East Scotland - I agree with the OP that large coaches serving Eldon Square would be a recipe for disaster. Peterlee should be alright, albeit a tight squeeze, as National Express services use this bus station.

If ever there was a contest for the most badly designed bus station...

... Durham would win it hands down!

(26 Aug 2017, 9:13 am)mb134 wrote I agree that Eldon Square is not a well designed bus station in the slightest, though I assumed the steering rear axle of larger coaches would help massively when turning at the bottom of the bus station?

I'm not at all sure how long the DAF coaches that Arriva used on the 685 were, but I can't imagine them being massively shorter?

---

I was surprised at how many seats there seem to be downstairs on the B5TLs, they seem to be slightly longer than the current B9TLs? I assume this longer length, and therefore additional overall capacity, allowed Go North East to improve the overall specification of the bus in terms of installing tables without reducing capacity from the current allocation?

 
About the length of a StreetLite if this is anything to go by.

As for installing tables, its just a case of flipping a set of seats around, with the combined legroom being used for a table.

When is the first Citaro for the X84/X85 due back from Blackburn?

Guessing the Citaro's which have a 10 reg go in to a spare role, this is how i can see them allocated:


Current allocations: 

Blaydon Racer – 5275, 76, 78, 79, 82.
Citylink 57 – 5277, 80, 81, 83, 93-97
X5 – 5285- 91
X84/X85/Tynedale – 5298-5303
35 – 5305-5309, 5325-27
27 – 5310-5322
5358 – 5368 – Connections 4
 

Current spares:

5283 – Riverside (12/12A)
5284 – Riverside (27)
5292 – Deptford (X5)
5323 – Riverside (57)
5324/37/38 – Washington (4, 50/50A)
 
Extra spares after refurbishment:
 
5328/29/30 – Deptford – 35/X5
5531, 32, 33, 34 – Riverside – 12/12A/27/57
5304, 5335/5336 – Hexham – X84/X85/Tyndale
 
Means at least every depot has extra spares for its Citaro’s routes, replacing Scania’s, basically I've gone for Depot Standardisation.

Seems like a lot of spares to be honest, maybe another route will be upgraded with some of those listed?

(26 Aug 2017, 5:02 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Seems like a lot of spares to be honest, maybe another route will be upgraded with some of those listed?

Hopefully but the last i heard, all the 10 reg Citaro's were planning on going to a spare role, that can change though.

I would say the 35/X84/X85 will have both have a spare.


8 on the Loop and 1 spare?, 6 Scania's from the Loop to Deptford for the 9, brand them "Black Cats".

(26 Aug 2017, 3:10 pm)Michael wrote When is the first Citaro for the X84/X85 due back from Blackburn?

Guessing the Citaro's which have a 10 reg go in to a spare role, this is how i can see them allocated:


Current allocations: 

Blaydon Racer – 5275, 76, 78, 79, 82.
Citylink 57 – 5277, 80, 81, 83, 93-97
X5 – 5285- 91
X84/X85/Tynedale – 5298-5303
35 – 5305-5309, 5325-27
27 – 5310-5322
5358 – 5368 – Connections 4
 

Current spares:

5283 – Riverside (12/12A)
5284 – Riverside (27)
5292 – Deptford (X5)
5323 – Riverside (57)
5324/37/38 – Washington (4, 50/50A)
 
Extra spares after refurbishment:
 
5328/29/30 – Deptford – 35/X5
5531, 32, 33, 34 – Riverside – 12/12A/27/57
5304, 5335/5336 – Hexham – X84/X85/Tyndale
 
Means at least every depot has extra spares for its Citaro’s routes, replacing Scania’s, basically I've gone for Depot Standardisation.

Could replace the Scania L94's at Riverside on the Green Arrow 97/97A/X97 thus upgrading the service, alternatively they could be used replace the Scania L94's on the Black Cats 38/61 therefore all vehicles within the brand have the same features (Wifi, NSA's, Leather Seats).

(26 Aug 2017, 5:16 pm)Malarkey wrote Could replace the Scania L94's at Riverside on the Green Arrow 97/97A/X97 thus upgrading the service, alternatively they could be used replace the Scania L94's on the Black Cats 38/61 therefore all vehicles within the brand have the same features (Wifi, NSA's, Leather Seats).

Never thought of the 38 and 61, maybe the 61, not sure on the 38, then at least most of the spare Scania's at Deptford would be branded "Black Cats"

Aren't the 97 solars protected with some obscure council agreement?

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(26 Aug 2017, 6:05 pm)Jamie M wrote Aren't the 97 solars protected with some obscure council agreement?

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Same as the solars on service 20 and X35, and those services ended up with streetlites and citarios.


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(26 Aug 2017, 7:36 pm)cbma06 wrote Same as the solars on service 20 and X35, and those services ended up with streetlites and citarios.


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Probably because the Citaro's were fitted with the AVID E-Fan, A Emission's saving device just through other part's of the bus instead of the Eminox and Exhaust Traps fitted to the Solar's.

Streetlite's obviously are fitted with there Micro-Hybrid system aswell as the E-Fan, So both on a whole were more environmentally friendly than the Eminox fitted Solar's they replaced, Which were Euro4 upon modifying while the Citaro's and WrightLite's were Euro5.
Don't know if this was a result of all Private Investment or if there replacements are still funded by the council, however if it was all private then I'm sure the Council wouldn't complain!

(26 Aug 2017, 7:54 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote Probably because the Citaro's were fitted with the AVID E-Fan, A Emission's saving device just through other part's of the bus instead of the Eminox and Exhaust Traps fitted to the Solar's.

Streetlite's obviously are fitted with there Micro-Hybrid system aswell as the E-Fan, So both on a whole were more environmentally friendly than the Eminox fitted Solar's they replaced, Which were Euro4 upon modifying while the Citaro's and WrightLite's were Euro5.
Don't know if this was a result of all Private Investment or if there replacements are still funded by the council, however if it was all private then I'm sure the Council wouldn't complain!

There's been a bit of discussion in the past about the mods.
Quite a few of us have our own specific niche interests. It could be allocations to Deptford, blobs on buses, Renowns, or the mechanical side of things.
One of mine is Public Funds being used to benefit the purse of a private PLC.

When GNE sell these vehicles, the potential to increase the sale value is going to be higher - if only because of the support of the LA's.

Anyway, I've found a quote from earlier this year.

There was discussion a while back about certain buses recieving eminox mods and it being funded by various local authorities. At the time, the query was whether those vehicles were to spend time within the same LA. As an example :- DCC fund mods to 5216 - it stays on routes that go in to Co Durham. 20 and then X35/X5.

I have no idea if it was ever confirmed what rules applied to the funding and if the vehicles were obliged to work in a specific area.

It might be worth looking to see where the old purple Solar's ended up...
DCC contributed a big chunk of money to install the Eminox mods on them.

Jesus, had 2 Waggonway solarss today, no ID I'm afraid. But the geaebox and suspension on them was absolutely ruined. Surely, considering the reliability and pvr issues of the 28, the Solar can't have long leftv

(26 Aug 2017, 8:29 pm)Andreos1 wrote There's been a bit of discussion in the past about the mods.
Quite a few of us have our own specific niche interests. It could be allocations to Deptford, blobs on buses, Renowns, or the mechanical side of things.
One of mine is Public Funds being used to benefit the purse of a private PLC.

When GNE sell these vehicles, the potential to increase the sale value is going to be higher - if only because of the support of the LA's.

Anyway, I've found a quote from earlier this year.

It might be worth looking to see where the old purple Solar's ended up...
DCC contributed a big chunk of money to install the Eminox mods on them.

Never thought of it that way to be honest, But yeah most of them ended up at Chester-Le-Street, Which is obviously in County Durham.

If the same logic goes towards the rest that were treated that would limit the Green Arrow's/Loop's to routes serving Gateshead Council area for the rest of there time here, Fast Cat's/Prince Bishops to County Durham or Sunderland City Council's area, So majority of Solar's wont stray too far from where there operating for the rest of there working lives.

(26 Aug 2017, 9:17 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote Never thought of it that way to be honest, But yeah most of them ended up at Chester-Le-Street, Which is obviously in County Durham.

If the same logic goes towards the rest that were treated that would limit the Green Arrow's/Loop's to routes serving Gateshead Council area for the rest of there time here, Fast Cat's/Prince Bishops to County Durham or Sunderland City Council's area, So majority of Solar's wont stray too far from where there operating for the rest of there working lives.

We haven't been privvy to any SLA's and it may just be a coincidence they ended up at Chester...

(26 Aug 2017, 8:35 pm)Ambassador wrote Jesus, had 2 Waggonway solarss today, no ID I'm afraid. But the geaebox and suspension on them was absolutely ruined. Surely, considering the reliability and pvr issues of the 28, the Solar can't have long leftv

4956 & 57 I would assume.