(11 Jul 2020, 9:43 am)tyresmoke wrote From what I've heard fleet standardisation seems to be the name of the game. Probably best for a new thread though. Good to see name badges being added to personalise what is an upgraded set of interurban services. We were meant to get similar at Arriva when Sapphire started but it didn't last long.

Ok i'll make a new thread.

Not good for people who might struggle with step entrance otherwise an interesting solution. If demand improves like some posters have mentioned I wonder if a 20 minute service might happen in future during peak times.

(11 Jul 2020, 1:51 pm)col87 wrote Not good for people who might struggle with step entrance otherwise an interesting solution. If demand improves like some posters have mentioned I wonder if a 20 minute service might happen in future during peak times.

Same folk that complain about step entrance manage just fine with tour coaches and the like... 

Post-Covid I don't see demand on the X9/X10 reaching even what it was at the beginning of the year for a good while - given both the improving train links and the reduction in both commuters and leisure travellers. From what I remember these can still seat around 60, I can't imagine many trips need much more than that.

(11 Jul 2020, 2:50 pm)mb134 wrote Same folk that complain about step entrance manage just fine with tour coaches and the like... 

Post-Covid I don't see demand on the X9/X10 reaching even what it was at the beginning of the year for a good while - given both the improving train links and the reduction in both commuters and leisure travellers. From what I remember these can still seat around 60, I can't imagine many trips need much more than that.

Interesting you mention the train. I think storx did the other day and I shared my thoughts/opinions on the train vs X9/10 vs Eldon Square.
We got the train up the coast today. I'd say more than usual boarded at Stockton and Billingham. When we got to Horden, I was genuinely amazed at the numbers on both platforms. 
Some got off at Seaham but the majority remained until Newcastle.

There were a mixture of families and groups. 

Myself and MrsC got change from £20 for a 2 leg return (appreciate there's the railcard weve already bought). We wouldn't have done with two Explorer tickets. 

One of the sets was a refurbished 158, the other was a DDA compliant 156.
Quicker journey than an ANE bus to Boro and then changing to the X9/10. Cheaper too.
Would a coach be enough to change our travel arrangements? Not sure it would. 
Would the other groups and families change their mode of transport? Genuinely don't know, but it would be interesting to see what the impact will br once the train frequency kicks in - or will the introduction of the coaches have an impact on the train?

Oxford said that the increase in train services via Bicester in to Marylebone had an impact on the X90.

Dan had the right idea there ? Let's get the coaches here and into service before we start looking at and inventing problems. End of the day this is a public service and the majority of users won't be bothered what colour it is, how many seats it has etc etc. What they want is a reliable, comfortable and ideally inexpensive service.

(11 Jul 2020, 4:21 pm)scanialover wrote Dan had the right idea there ? Let's get the coaches here and into service before we start looking at and inventing problems. End of the day this is a public service and the majority of users won't be bothered what colour it is, how many seats it has etc etc. What they want is a reliable, comfortable and ideally inexpensive service.

And that's exactly what the coaches will provide. Reliability will improve significantly and if anything, increase user confidence!

(11 Jul 2020, 3:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote Interesting you mention the train. I think storx did the other day and I shared my thoughts/opinions on the train vs X9/10 vs Eldon Square.
We got the train up the coast today. I'd say more than usual boarded at Stockton and Billingham. When we got to Horden, I was genuinely amazed at the numbers on both platforms. 
Some got off at Seaham but the majority remained until Newcastle.

There were a mixture of families and groups. 

Myself and MrsC got change from £20 for a 2 leg return (appreciate there's the railcard weve already bought). We wouldn't have done with two Explorer tickets. 

One of the sets was a refurbished 158, the other was a DDA compliant 156.
Quicker journey than an ANE bus to Boro and then changing to the X9/10. Cheaper too.
Would a coach be enough to change our travel arrangements? Not sure it would. 
Would the other groups and families change their mode of transport? Genuinely don't know, but it would be interesting to see what the impact will br once the train frequency kicks in - or will the introduction of the coaches have an impact on the train?

Oxford said that the increase in train services via Bicester in to Marylebone had an impact on the X90.

This is part of my worry too. Obviously the introduction of the interdecks is a huge improvement over the current offering both in terms of ride quality and you'd think reliability too - however I'm not sure if this is possibly coming too late in the day. 

People who have been using the X9/X10 for years with no other convenient option suddenly now have a better train link, which to many will always be seen as more reliable than a bus (alongside the other benefits of speed and, versus a B5, ride comfort). You then have the current situation in which many office workers, as well as others who can work from home, may never return to their workplace should their employer deem working from home sufficient.

Add to that what has been discussed briefly - how many passengers will be lost by not serving Eldon Square? I don't imagine it would be any more than a handful, but people who "turn up and go" would look at the departure board in Eldon Square and only see the X12 as an option to get to Middlesbrough. 

This issue of increasing rail provisions is something that will impact upon more than just the X9/X10 in the next few years though. As another example, the long awaited reopening of the Ashington, Blyth and Tyne line is mooted for 2023 - you'd like to think that Arriva get back to "pre-Covid" numbers by that point but if they aren't close to that then I'd worry about the passenger numbers there too. 

I'm by absolutely no means saying that the X9/X10 is dead, simply that due to a number of factors I don't think it'll get back to consistently high passenger numbers for a while in comparison to other routes. The interdecks being about 3 years too late, coupled with Covid-19, the Horden station opening and not being able to terminate in Eldon Square, is a fairly hefty combination of challenges to overcome. I, and I'm sure everyone on this board, hope GNE manage to navigate it all but it will most definitely be interesting to see how the situation develops.

A fact. The only thing that keeps me of the train is the fact I can't use my concessionary pass on it ! No matter what GNE do there is no comparison bus (coach) versus train. OK the train up the coast takes 90 minutes but then the X9/10 isn't far behind by the time it wanders around the houses. Then we have the perils of the A19 to endure, one crash and that's the journey by as long as it takes.
As I said though, it's an interesting development in the life of the route. See how it goes.

I'd worry about the service not being able to be accommodated in Eldon Square and having to wait out on the street somewhere. Fine in the summer but when it comes to winter evenings, knowing how many people are at the stand 15-20 mins before departure at Eldon Square now (I know I've done it myself!) I wonder how many of these would be put off by not being in a nice warm(ish) bus station? Admittedly Haymarket isn't any good and that doesn't seem a put off to commuters there, albeit it's under cover while not being indoors.

This takes me back to my only experience with Megabus ? Cheap it might be but reliable ?? My journey down (M'bro - Leeds) was married by a late running coach and standing on a street corner in Leeds at 6pm for the departure home; no notification of whether the coach was running or not, didn't impress, didn't impress that much I went over to Dyer Street and paid the extra to travel back with National Express. Can see this being a problem, not only at Eldon Square. Again the train wins.

(11 Jul 2020, 7:41 pm)tyresmoke wrote I'd worry about the service not being able to be accommodated in Eldon Square and having to wait out on the street somewhere. Fine in the summer but when it comes to winter evenings, knowing how many people are at the stand 15-20 mins before departure at Eldon Square now (I know I've done it myself!) I wonder how many of these would be put off by not being in a nice warm(ish) bus station? Admittedly Haymarket isn't any good and that doesn't seem a put off to commuters there, albeit it's under cover while not being indoors.

Depending on where the X9/X10 will stop in Newcastle, it might even be more convenient to change at Gateshead and get a bus direct to Eldon Square. 

(11 Jul 2020, 8:14 pm)scanialover wrote This takes me back to my only experience with Megabus ? Cheap it might be but reliable ?? My journey down (M'bro - Leeds) was married by a late running coach and standing on a street corner in Leeds at 6pm for the departure home; no notification of whether the coach was running or not, didn't impress, didn't impress that much I went over to Dyer Street and paid the extra to travel back with National Express. Can see this being a problem, not only at Eldon Square. Again the train wins.

I've never personally had an issue with Megabus, I've had issues with other passengers being absolute tramps, but never with the service itself

Seems a good way to solve two problems at once, GNE reducing their expenditure this year and Oxford finding a use for the surplus Coaches. It is basically a win win, many here have wanted coaches on the X9/X10 for years.

Where it stops in Newcastle will be interesting, if it isn’t serving Eldon Square then is there any point in going all the way up there, so maybe they will use the Market Street sort of area instead. I’m not sure they’d be able to make the left turn into Bigg Market though.

As others have said, that bottom end of Newcastle is missing a bus station, it’s a shame they couldn’t have incorporated one into the development work that is currently going on. Services like the 56 could have used it along with others not having to make the trek up to Eldon Square

(11 Jul 2020, 9:24 pm)Wybus wrote Seems a good way to solve two problems at once, GNE reducing their expenditure this year and Oxford finding a use for the surplus Coaches. It is basically a win win, many here have wanted coaches on the X9/X10 for years.

Where it stops in Newcastle will be interesting, if it isn’t serving Eldon Square then is there any point in going all the way up there, so maybe they will use the Market Street sort of area instead. I’m not sure they’d be able to make the left turn into Bigg Market though.

As others have said, that bottom end of Newcastle is missing a bus station, it’s a shame they couldn’t have incorporated one into the development work that is currently going on. Services like the 56 could have used it along with others not having to make the trek up to Eldon Square

I mean, if we take what Dan said at face value 'The removal of the X9/X10 services from Eldon Square Bus Station will be the only change to the route', then the new starting point has to be somewhere already along the route.
It needs to be somewhere that is easily accessible from Eldon Square, as they'll want easy connections to other services. I guess they'd also want somewhere that's covered as they wouldn't want passengers of a 'premium' service standing out in the rain. It needs to be somewhere big enough to stop a coach without causing too much of an obstruction. I don't really know central Newcastle that well, is there anywhere that would fit all that?

(11 Jul 2020, 7:41 pm)tyresmoke wrote I'd worry about the service not being able to be accommodated in Eldon Square and having to wait out on the street somewhere. Fine in the summer but when it comes to winter evenings, knowing how many people are at the stand 15-20 mins before departure at Eldon Square now (I know I've done it myself!) I wonder how many of these would be put off by not being in a nice warm(ish) bus station? Admittedly Haymarket isn't any good and that doesn't seem a put off to commuters there, albeit it's under cover while not being indoors.

I think this is it - while Haymarket is open ended, it's still under cover so folk aren't getting drenched. There's also indoor access from all of Eldon Square via M&S - so for many people working/shopping in there, they can stay dry all the way to their bus. 

I don't imagine 40+ people queuing on John Dobson/Market/Pilgrim Street will be as nice in the pouring November rain.

Equally - for first time users - if the X9/X10 leaves a 10-15 minute walk away from Eldon Square, and for sake of argument you then miss one by minutes, then the overall journey time between that and the X12 becomes far closer. Couple that with that if you're standing waiting for the X9/X10 you could be getting wet/cold, whereas you're in the dry on the X12. Obviously would likely only happen the once, but that could put folk off in the future and onto the train (or for those in Eldon Square, make them swallow the added journey time on the X12 and use that with its day ticket for £3.50 cheaper).

(11 Jul 2020, 9:47 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I mean, if we take what Dan said at face value 'The removal of the X9/X10 services from Eldon Square Bus Station will be the only change to the route', then the new starting point has to be somewhere already along the route.
It needs to be somewhere that is easily accessible from Eldon Square, as they'll want easy connections to other services. I guess they'd also want somewhere that's covered as they wouldn't want passengers of a 'premium' service standing out in the rain. It needs to be somewhere big enough to stop a coach without causing too much of an obstruction. I don't really know central Newcastle that well, is there anywhere that would fit all that?

Well.............nearby Haymarket & Eldon Square there is St Mary's Place perhaps.

Why is there always an obsession on this forum that if a bus goes from say Blyth to Newcastle then every person can just use a different bus from Blyth to Newcastle and it's all fine. It's all good comparing the X9/X10 and X12 but they're not the same bus route at all apart from 1 stop at each end.

(11 Jul 2020, 10:06 pm)Storx wrote Why is there always an obsession on this forum that if a bus goes from say Blyth to Newcastle then every person can just use a different bus from Blyth to Newcastle and it's all fine. It's all good comparing the X9/X10 and X12 but they're not the same bus route at all apart from 1 stop at each end.

Name me another bus that leaves Eldon Square to go to Middlesbrough. 

Its fine for us that know the routes, but for infrequent bus users there will no longer be a "X10 Middlesbrough" on the Eldon Square departure board - which might cause some issues.

(11 Jul 2020, 10:06 pm)Storx wrote Why is there always an obsession on this forum that if a bus goes from say Blyth to Newcastle then every person can just use a different bus from Blyth to Newcastle and it's all fine. It's all good comparing the X9/X10 and X12 but they're not the same bus route at all apart from 1 stop at each end.

That was exactly the point, for people from Newcastle, the X12 is a service to Durham that happens to carry on to Middlesbrough, and for people from Middlesbrough, it's a service to Durham that happens to continue on to Newcastle.

The issue is if someone just turns up at Eldon Square looking for a bus to Middlesbrough (however unlikely that is), they're going to look at the board and see the X12 as the only option. The great thing about Nexus timetables is they actually tell you roughly how long the journey is, so a passenger may just look at the timetable and see it takes a bloody age to get there and think "Sod it, I'm getting the train" rather than looking for the X9/X10

(11 Jul 2020, 10:14 pm)streetdeckfan wrote That was exactly the point, for people from Newcastle, the X12 is a service to Durham that happens to carry on to Middlesbrough, and for people from Middlesbrough, it's a service to Durham that happens to continue on to Newcastle.

The issue is if someone just turns up at Eldon Square looking for a bus to Middlesbrough (however unlikely that is), they're going to look at the board and see the X12 as the only option. The great thing about Nexus timetables is they actually tell you roughly how long the journey is, so a passenger may just look at the timetable and see it takes a bloody age to get there and think "Sod it, I'm getting the train" rather than looking for the X9/X10

Absolutely this. It's unlikely (though I perhaps should have made that clearer), but infrequent bus users often simply look for where they want to go, see whichever bus is first then get on that. 

Over the years, the amount of times I've seen people catch an X21/2 to Ashington over the X20 because the X21/2 leaves 2-3 minutes earlier is too many to count. I've steered them the right way if I've noticed in time (if I've overhead their conversation!), but all too often I'd get off the X20 then 10 minutes later they'll get off the X21/2. (Note that this was just as frequent in pre-Sapphire days where there generally was no internal spec difference either)

(11 Jul 2020, 10:24 pm)mb134 wrote Absolutely this. It's unlikely (though I perhaps should have made that clearer), but infrequent bus users often simply look for where they want to go, see whichever bus is first then get on that. 

Over the years, the amount of times I've seen people catch an X21/2 to Ashington over the X20 because the X21/2 leaves 2-3 minutes earlier is too many to count. I've steered them the right way if I've noticed in time (if I've overhead their conversation!), but all too often I'd get off the X20 then 10 minutes later they'll get off the X21/2. (Note that this was just as frequent in pre-Sapphire days where there generally was no internal spec difference either)

What's the price difference between the two services? I can imagine them timing the more expensive journey first to get more passenger to take that!

It's also why I hate the Durham timetable so much, even if we forget about the fact they're so confusing to understand, they don't tell you how long a journey takes. Two services could go to the same place and you'd have no clue which one would get there first! Whereas with the Nexus timetables, they have the key stops listed with the journey time underneath

(11 Jul 2020, 10:24 pm)mb134 wrote Absolutely this. It's unlikely (though I perhaps should have made that clearer), but infrequent bus users often simply look for where they want to go, see whichever bus is first then get on that. 

Over the years, the amount of times I've seen people catch an X21/2 to Ashington over the X20 because the X21/2 leaves 2-3 minutes earlier is too many to count. I've steered them the right way if I've noticed in time (if I've overhead their conversation!), but all too often I'd get off the X20 then 10 minutes later they'll get off the X21/2. (Note that this was just as frequent in pre-Sapphire days where there generally was no internal spec difference either)

But if you go down that route then you might aswell serve John Dobson Street and take Megabus customers. The Megabus is cheaper than the X9/X10 between Newcastle and Middlesbrough for a single and quicker as it's non-stop...

(11 Jul 2020, 10:32 pm)streetdeckfan wrote What's the price difference between the two services? I can imagine them timing the more expensive journey first to get more passenger to take that!

It's also why I hate the Durham timetable so much, even if we forget about the fact they're so confusing to understand, they don't tell you how long a journey takes. Two services could go to the same place and you'd have no clue which one would get there first! Whereas with the Nexus timetables, they have the key stops listed with the journey time underneath

I'd imagine with both you'd get the Northumberland + TW All Zones day ticket which is about £7.50 - the stages of Ashington Bus Station and Haymarket would be the same so there'd be no difference in the price of a single I don't imagine (and the day ticket always works out better value than a return!). 

One of the (very) few Nexus things I actually think they get right are those timetables - it's a bit of a shame that they're often not looked at at all, and not copied by everyone else!

How about St Thomas Street, then right onto Percy Street and normal route from there for southbound services. Likewise coming into Newcastle, along John Dobson Street, St Marys Place, then along to the Hancock Museum, left there, up to the RVI, around the block so its pointing the right way ready to leave.

People could wait in either Haymarket or Eldon Sq until the service is due in bad weather then just a short walk.

In Response to the X9/X10 moving from eldon square.
Are the coaches bigger than the old ones from the X2/X23 or even X9 a few years ago?
Were the arriva coaches ever allocated to the 685 since the bus station changed?

(13 Jul 2020, 9:46 am)ASX_Terranova wrote In Response to the X9/X10 moving from eldon square.
Are the coaches bigger than the old ones from the X2/X23 or even X9 a few years ago?
Were the arriva coaches ever allocated to the 685 since the bus station changed?

Yes, much bigger. These are tri-axle 15m interdeck coaches.

(13 Jul 2020, 12:35 pm)Dan wrote Yes, much bigger. These are tri-axle 15m interdeck coaches.

What's that, an extra Corsa on the length of a StreetDeck?

(13 Jul 2020, 12:40 pm)streetdeckfan wrote What's that, an extra Corsa on the length of a StreetDeck?

Half the length again, most double decks are in the region of 10m

A significant number of passengers catching the X9 are for Peterlee so they will be left pretty much out in the cold.

What's happened to Peterlee and the X9 ? Have I missed something ?

(17 Jul 2020, 1:36 pm)scanialover wrote What's happened to Peterlee and the X9 ? Have I missed something ?

I think they're referring to the fact X9/X10 is moving out of Eldon Square, so it won't be sheltered in the winter

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