(12 Aug 2020, 9:00 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Better off being busy than being sat on here all day.. oh wait...

  I get notifications 

(12 Aug 2020, 9:05 pm)JP6004 wrote   I get notifications 

Lucky you! My Tapatalk notifications have buggered off again, my excuse is I have it open in the background on another monitor whilst I'm working!
But I've now got into the habit of refreshing every minute or so just so I don't miss out on any of the crack

(11 Aug 2020, 11:10 am)streetdeckfan wrote I wonder if passengers will even notice the difference between the StreetDecks and the B5s, it's pretty hard for me to even tell the difference!
I suppose the only real giveaway to a layperson would be the different NSA displays.

I presume the exterior design will be identical to the StreetDecks

Apart from the B5s being massive.

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(12 Aug 2020, 4:39 pm)Storx wrote I haven't been on the new GNE buses but have been on Borisbuses before and it's a nicer interior than the blue imo.

For someone who isn't used to GNE (we're mostly Arriva). GNE buses always feel cold / wet especially on a winters day and the blue is pretty much the cause of that. Blue doesn't promote warmth it's a colour you tend to associate with ice, water, winter etc which no doubt is the reason for the change. The Cobalt and Coast is a massive improvement since they painted the blue panels grey, shame they're all chipped with the blue coming through now though.

Personally I think it's the worst interior in the north east (especially the original with blue floors aswell) other than the very short lived Arriva 1970's green bathroom sink one (Operation Overdrive / 57 plate Enviros)

Nah. No blue on an Arriva bus at all. Not anywhere.

(12 Aug 2020, 10:11 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Apart from the B5s being massive.

Are they really that much bigger? Plus, unless you see them side by side, you wouldn't really notice.

That's the point I was getting at, they look the same from the outside (or at least very similar) and the interior spec is pretty much identical (if anything it's a mix of the two, they have the new leather seats, but don't have the glass staircase)

I wonder if they'll make a big deal out of it or whether they'll just quietly roll them out

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(12 Aug 2020, 10:11 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Apart from the B5s being massive.

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Nah. No blue on an Arriva bus at all. Not anywhere.

At least GNE don't have their logo in the vinyl flooring like Arriva do

(12 Aug 2020, 10:11 pm)BusLoverMum wrote

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Nah. No blue on an Arriva bus at all. Not anywhere.

Unless I'm colourblind there's very little blue on Arriva's buses compared to GNE which is only blue which is mostly green instead. You could argue turquoise is blue aswell I suppose but it's no where near to the level of GNE blue panels, blue seats, blue walls, blue floors (changed recently), blue grab handles etc.

For the record I don't mind some blue, Stagecoach use blue aswell on their 'Arriva logo' flooring, seats and panels but it's balanced out with the orange and red aswell which brightens it up a bit. It's more the exclusive usage of blue with the old GNE design which imo makes them feel cold.

Much prefer the new Bus for London burgendy design it's more modern imo and warmer as a passenger.

(13 Aug 2020, 11:35 am)Storx wrote Unless I'm colourblind there's very little blue on Arriva's buses compared to GNE which is only blue which is mostly green instead. You could argue turquoise is blue aswell I suppose but it's no where near to the level of GNE blue panels, blue seats, blue walls, blue floors (changed recently), blue grab handles etc.

For the record I don't mind some blue, Stagecoach use blue aswell on their 'Arriva logo' flooring, seats and panels but it's balanced out with the orange and red aswell which brightens it up a bit. It's more the exclusive usage of blue with the old GNE design which imo makes them feel cold.

Much prefer the new Bus for London burgendy design it's more modern imo and warmer as a passenger.

No blue at all on new vehicles. I agree it did make it feel cold.

(13 Aug 2020, 11:35 am)Storx wrote Unless I'm colourblind there's very little blue on Arriva's buses compared to GNE which is only blue which is mostly green instead. You could argue turquoise is blue aswell I suppose but it's no where near to the level of GNE blue panels, blue seats, blue walls, blue floors (changed recently), blue grab handles etc.

For the record I don't mind some blue, Stagecoach use blue aswell on their 'Arriva logo' flooring, seats and panels but it's balanced out with the orange and red aswell which brightens it up a bit. It's more the exclusive usage of blue with the old GNE design which imo makes them feel cold.

Much prefer the new Bus for London burgendy design it's more modern imo and warmer as a passenger.

The Sapphires I've been on have dark blue plastics inside, where GNE's is light blue.

(12 Aug 2020, 4:36 pm)Andreos1 wrote I can't remember specific detail, but pretty sure the numbers need to be on the side nearest the road as part of psvar. I'm not aware of any changes to rules/recommendations.

Further to this, I've noted Sanders Coaches displaying the number on the drivers side on some of their vehicles, as opposed to the kerb side.

Evidenced here on their website: 

(13 Aug 2020, 5:36 pm)Andreos1 wrote Further to this, I've noted Sanders Coaches displaying the number on the drivers side on some of their vehicles, as opposed to the kerb side.

Best practice under PSVAR guidance is to have the route number on the nearside of the vehicle, but this will be an experiment to show the route number on the offside instead, as it's particularly difficult to see the route number on the nearside on this vehicle type due to the destination glass masking (which is also what Reading Buses did with their StreetDecks which have a similar set up).

(13 Aug 2020, 5:45 pm)Dan wrote Best practice under PSVAR guidance is to have the route number on the nearside of the vehicle, but this will be an experiment to show the route number on the offside instead, as it's particularly difficult to see the route number on the nearside on this vehicle type due to the destination glass masking (which is also what Reading Buses did with their StreetDecks which have a similar set up).

Will that apply to the StreetDecks with the single destination display as well? Just for continuity as they'll be running alongside each other

6349 (YX20OKJ) - E400MMC has arrived today in the colours of Dark Green and gold

Photo by Dan: https://www.flickr.com/photos/danielgrah...otostream/

Looks like the new fleet numbers are going to be:

E400 – 15 - 6341 - 6355

Streetdecks – 22 - 6356 - 6377

(13 Aug 2020, 6:34 pm)Michael wrote 6349 (YX20OKJ) - E400MMC has arrived today in the colours of Dark Green and gold

Photo by Dan: https://www.flickr.com/photos/danielgrah...otostream/

Cup holders are a great idea. I usually have to quickly drink my coffee before I can even look at my bacon sandwich when I've been to Cooplands, now if only they put them on the B5s! 

Although I'd imagine they'd be fairly easy to retrofit, IIRC, the tables are just MDF so can have the hole drilled in and the cup holder insert added.

Looking at both new buses, the Wright body looks so much more upmarket than the E400.

(13 Aug 2020, 6:58 pm)Big O wrote Looking at both new buses, the Wright body looks so much more upmarket than the E400.

The Streetdeck looks much better overall - i think its the destination which makes it look better.

Judging by that photo, all praise I had about the Streetdeck destinations seems to have evaporated on the spot.

(13 Aug 2020, 7:03 pm)S813 FVK wrote Judging by that photo, all praise I had about the Streetdeck destinations seems to have evaporated on the spot.

How come?

(13 Aug 2020, 6:58 pm)Big O wrote Looking at both new buses, the Wright body looks so much more upmarket than the E400.

The interiors do as well, I think anyway.

The tables look like an afterthought on the E400s but they just seem to fit the StreetDecks. The tables on the StreetDecks also look a lot higher quality (and assuming they're the same as the current ones, they feel it as well).

Spec wise, they seem more upmarket as well

The StreetDecks have stop buttons at the tables, the E400s don't
The StreetDecks also have 240V sockets at the tables, the E400s don't.
The StreetDecks look to have wireless charging at every seat, the E400s don't (although the tables only have one, compared to 2 on the E400s)

I think the Esteban V3 seats look a lot nicer than the Kiel seats, primarily because the headrest is a separate piece, but also the designs seems to fit better. The headrest section on the Kiels always looked a bit too big.
Plus, I personally find the V3 seats more comfortable for longer journeys, but that's a personal preference.

Then there's the feel, as we've discussed before, if past experiences are anything to go by, the StreetDecks will feel a lot more solid inside.

(13 Aug 2020, 7:07 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The interiors do as well, I think anyway.

The tables look like an afterthought on the E400s but they just seem to fit the StreetDecks. The tables on the StreetDecks also look a lot higher quality (and assuming they're the same as the current ones, they feel it as well).

Spec wise, they seem more upmarket as well

The StreetDecks have stop buttons at the tables, the E400s don't
The StreetDecks also have 240V sockets at the tables, the E400s don't.
The StreetDecks look to have wireless charging at every seat, the E400s don't (although the tables only have one, compared to 2 on the E400s)

I think the Esteban V3 seats look a lot nicer than the Kiel seats, primarily because the headrest is a separate piece, but also the designs seems to fit better. The headrest section on the Kiels always looked a bit too big.
Plus, I personally find the V3 seats more comfortable for longer journeys, but that's a personal preference.

Then there's the feel, as we've discussed before, if past experiences are anything to go by, the StreetDecks will feel a lot more solid inside.

The upstairs windows are shallower on the Streetdecks, on the E400 they look like an afterthought as they seem to be level with the window sill. Therefore not enough space to have sockets

(13 Aug 2020, 7:11 pm)JP6004 wrote The upstairs windows are shallower on the Streetdecks, on the E400 they look like an afterthought as they seem to be level with the window sill. Therefore not enough space to have sockets

I understand that, I was just saying purely aesthetically, they look like an afterthought. The same can be said about the Cobalt B9s.

They could have put the sockets underneath the tables though, like they have on 16 plate StreetDecks.

(13 Aug 2020, 7:07 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The interiors do as well, I think anyway.

The tables look like an afterthought on the E400s but they just seem to fit the StreetDecks. The tables on the StreetDecks also look a lot higher quality (and assuming they're the same as the current ones, they feel it as well).

Spec wise, they seem more upmarket as well

The StreetDecks have stop buttons at the tables, the E400s don't
The StreetDecks also have 240V sockets at the tables, the E400s don't.
The StreetDecks look to have wireless charging at every seat, the E400s don't (although the tables only have one, compared to 2 on the E400s)

I think the Esteban V3 seats look a lot nicer than the Kiel seats, primarily because the headrest is a separate piece, but also the designs seems to fit better. The headrest section on the Kiels always looked a bit too big.
Plus, I personally find the V3 seats more comfortable for longer journeys, but that's a personal preference.

Then there's the feel, as we've discussed before, if past experiences are anything to go by, the StreetDecks will feel a lot more solid inside.

I have to agree with you, the Gemini is such a well designed and nice-looking body, it was definitely designed with the passenger, driver and operator in mind. The driving position is great, the cab aircon is spot on, the headlights are a level whereby you don't blind the driver in front of you, the interior is very nice feeling too, none of these glossy looking plastics and proper air con too. I could go on. But the Gemini 3 is definitely the best body on the market hands down. 

I've always said the Enviro is a posh toilet. I believe MG and Alex Hornby are known to one another and it will be interesting to see if Martijn feeds back performance of the new Streetdecks to him and whether it influences future orders for Transdev.

(13 Aug 2020, 7:27 pm)Big O wrote I have to agree with you, the Gemini is such a well designed and nice-looking body, it was definitely designed with the passenger, driver and operator in mind. The driving position is great, the cab aircon is spot on, the headlights are a level whereby you don't blind the driver in front of you, the interior is very nice feeling too, none of these glossy looking plastics and proper air con too. I could go on. But the Gemini 3 is definitely the best body on the market hands down. 

I've always said the Enviro is a posh toilet. I believe MG and Alex Hornby are known to one another and it will be interesting to see if Martijn feeds back performance of the new Streetdecks to him and whether it influences future orders for Transdev.

Yeah, I forgot about the AC. During the hot weather last year it was absolute luxury getting on the X21. The fact that it blows directly down on you cools you down extremely quickly, and I'd imagine is a lot more efficient as well.

The E400MMC mechanically is the better vehicle although Wrightbus bodywork as rather appeasing.

I do think that is the OM936 is successful during it's initial trial in the UK, it will change the fortunes of the StreetDeck. The 5.1L OM934 whilst adequate and the later examples have been ok, is much better suited to stop / start type routes (GNE 21, 56, 309/310/311; Arriva 308).

Will GNE's OM936 example come with Voith or ZF? Will it also come with stop/start?

(13 Aug 2020, 7:06 pm)Michael wrote How come?

It's just the consistency bug that I have I think. 

I knew I probably wouldn't like the double displays from the point it was announced they would have them, but I did like the format shown yesterday because it kept the destination on the top line and the via points/other extra info on the bottom in line with the format of all other displays. 

Perhaps this is just a trial to see what else they can do, but I certainly know which one I prefer.

(13 Aug 2020, 7:51 pm)L469 YVK wrote The E400MMC mechanically is the better vehicle although Wrightbus bodywork as rather appeasing.

I do think that is the OM936 is successful during it's initial trial in the UK, it will change the fortunes of the StreetDeck. The 5.1L OM934 whilst adequate and the later examples have been ok, is much better suited to stop / start type routes (GNE 21, 56, 309/310/311; Arriva 308). 

Will GNE's OM936 example come with Voith or ZF? Will it also come with stop/start?

I personally don't think it's an issue with the engine itself, but the gearing. It's clearly not geared for higher speeds. Like you say it's great at stop/start routes, but most of the X21 isn't stop start. Even the parts that aren't motorway are still fast A roads which means higher revs, and more wear on the engine.

The same can be said for parts of the X45/46, so it'll be interesting to see how well they cope on there.

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(13 Aug 2020, 7:58 pm)S813 FVK wrote It's just the consistency bug that I have I think. 

I knew I probably wouldn't like the double displays from the point it was announced they would have them, but I did like the format shown yesterday because it kept the destination on the top line and the via points/other extra info on the bottom in line with the format of all other displays. 

Perhaps this is just a trial to see what else they can do, but I certainly know which one I prefer.

Yeah, I agree. It looked much better having it basically the same as it is now, but with the extra display underneath as an addon. The arrows with the via points just look stupid IMO. Unfortunately, according to Dan on Twitter, it looks like that's the style they'll be sticking with

My biggest question is whether they're going to at least have all the Consett StreetDecks have the number on the left, otherwise we'll see the 67 plates with it on the right, and the 20 plates on the left. 

I would personally prefer all the numbers on the left, I think it's much easier and logical to read. The most important thing is the route number, and we read from left to right, so it should be on the left.

(13 Aug 2020, 9:10 pm)streetdeckfan wrote My biggest question is whether they're going to at least have all the Consett StreetDecks have the number on the left, otherwise we'll see the 67 plates with it on the right, and the 20 plates on the left. 

I would personally prefer all the numbers on the left, I think it's much easier and logical to read. The most important thing is the route number, and we read from left to right, so it should be on the left.

If you are refering to the route number, I thought it legally had to be on the door side for PSVAR requirements.

(13 Aug 2020, 9:10 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I personally don't think it's an issue with the engine itself, but the gearing. It's clearly not geared for higher speeds. Like you say it's great at stop/start routes, but most of the X21 isn't stop start. Even the parts that aren't motorway are still fast A roads which means higher revs, and more wear on the engine.

The same can be said for parts of the X45/46, so it'll be interesting to see how well they cope on there.

Agree on the statement for stop / start routes. Wouldn't surprise me if we see "green shoots of recovery" economic wise that GoNE will order them for the 56 & Cobalts with the B9TLs cascaded either within Go North East or nationally. They're perfect for both routes and would reduce the fuel bill massively.

Perhaps won't be for another 2-3 year at least and economic wise, I think it's just a matter of taking it day by day for all operators at the moment.

(13 Aug 2020, 9:30 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote If you are refering to the route number, I thought it legally had to be on the door side for PSVAR requirements.

(13 Aug 2020, 5:45 pm)Dan wrote Best practice under PSVAR guidance is to have the route number on the nearside of the vehicle, but this will be an experiment to show the route number on the offside instead, as it's particularly difficult to see the route number on the nearside on this vehicle type due to the destination glass masking (which is also what Reading Buses did with their StreetDecks which have a similar set up).

Apparently just best practice rather than a legal requirement

(13 Aug 2020, 9:33 pm)L469 YVK wrote Agree on the statement for stop / start routes. Wouldn't surprise me if we see "green shoots of recovery" economic wise that GoNE will order them for the 56 & Cobalts with the B9TLs cascaded either within Go North East or nationally. They're perfect for both routes and would reduce the fuel bill massively.

Perhaps won't be for another 2-3 year at least and economic wise, I think it's just a matter of taking it day by day for all operators at the moment.

For routes like the 56 and Cobalts, the B9s are definitely overkill, but I suppose that's what gives them their reliability. The downside is they use nigh on twice as much fuel as a StreetDeck (allegedly, I doubt we'd ever see the real world figures)

The fact that the 56 B9s won't be receiving a full refurb, at least to the extent of the Cobalt B9s, suggests they had plans to upgrade at some point in the not too distant future. 

The 4 cylinder StreetDecks would definitely be more than enough for both routes IMO, the 6 cylinder would definitely be overkill.

(13 Aug 2020, 9:45 pm)streetdeckfan wrote For routes like the 56 and Cobalts, the B9s are definitely overkill, but I suppose that's what gives them their reliability. The downside is they use nigh on twice as much fuel as a StreetDeck (allegedly, I doubt we'd ever see the real world figures)

The fact that the 56 B9s won't be receiving a full refurb, at least to the extent of the Cobalt B9s, suggests they had plans to upgrade at some point in the not too distant future. 

The 4 cylinder StreetDecks would definitely be more than enough for both routes IMO, the 6 cylinder would definitely be overkill.

Agreed 6 cylinder would be best suited to X21/X84/85 and possibly X9/X10....although cant see coaches going anywhere soon. Also maybe the 20 should it ever be upgraded to DD

(13 Aug 2020, 9:52 pm)JP6004 wrote Agreed 6 cylinder would be best suited to X21/X84/85 and possibly X9/X10....although cant see coaches going anywhere soon. Also maybe the 20 should it ever be upgraded to DD

To be honest, I think the 6 cylinder is overkill for even the X21. The 4 cylinder with more suitable gearing (whether or not that is available, I don't know) would be more than adequate