(08 Sep 2020, 5:30 pm)Adtrainsam wrote Interesting point. While the X lines buses are really smart, I agree with your point, the livery for the Electric Buses won't really stand out. There's all shades of Green in Newcastle. One thing I liked about GNE is that they make the buses colourful. You can see all the different colours and makes the buses seem nicer and brighter than a dull livery like First or Stagecoach.

On the other side of the Tyne, most of the buses look rather similar. as it's either Corporate or Black Cats. I'm not a fan of the Black Cats brand as it looks far too similar to any other GNE bus. The only ones that sort of stand out in Sunderland for me is the Prince Bishops, Drifter and 56 services. Everything else just feels rather 'boring' in shades of red, although obviously, red is the main corporate colour of GNE. I think more colours in Sunderland etc. and less green in Newcastle would be good.

I think there's going to be far too much Gold in Newcastle as well.
X-lines stands out when there's only a few buses, but the issue with making things express purely for the branding, like they did with the Red Kites, is that everything is going to look the same.
There's the X1, X21, X30, X31, X70, X71, X84 and X85 all running from Eldon Square, all gold at the front.
It's going to be an absolute nightmare figuring out which one is which when they inevitably end up at the wrong stand. Sure, they've got that little stripe of colour on the front, but when you're in a rush you won't see it.
Plus, after a week or two, people just aren't going to take notice anymore, whereas when it's just the X21 and X30, you still see people point at them after a year

(08 Sep 2020, 5:40 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I think there's going to be far too much Gold in Newcastle as well.
X-lines stands out when there's only a few buses, but the issue with making things express purely for the branding, like they did with the Red Kites, is that everything is going to look the same.
There's the X1, X21, X30, X31, X70, X71, X84 and X85 all running from Eldon Square, all gold at the front.
It's going to be an absolute nightmare figuring out which one is which when they inevitably end up at the wrong stand. Sure, they've got that little stripe of colour on the front, but when you're in a rush you won't see it.
Plus, after a week or two, people just aren't going to take notice anymore, whereas when it's just the X21 and X30, you still see people point at them after a year

Consett is the worst for that pretty much every service there is gold / yellow (Venture is very close to gold). The X Lines there, in a way, has been overdone a bit too much for my liking as it's just the 'normal' bus livery pretty much. Arriva done the same at Blyth where it's either minibus or Max so the Max livery isn't a premium service - it's just a normal bus and anything non Max is just old. I understand the reasons behind X-Lines though.

(08 Sep 2020, 5:55 pm)Storx wrote Consett is the worst for that pretty much every service there is gold / yellow (Venture is very close to gold). The X Lines there, in a way, has been overdone a bit too much for my liking as it's just the 'normal' bus livery pretty much. Arriva done the same at Blyth where it's either minibus or Max so the Max livery isn't a premium service - it's just a normal bus and anything non Max is just old. I understand the reasons behind X-Lines though.

The issue is, as much as they'd like it to be, Consett isn't exactly somewhere you want to go (no offence to people from Consett, but I ain't wrong). It's somewhere you commute from. And in that regard, I think only having Xlines and Venture isn't a bad thing. You're either going to be travelling very locally, and use Venture, or quite far away, and use Xlines.

Imo, they should have had one, maybe 2 Xlines routes from Consett to Newcastle, but with having literally every service Xlines, they're trying to have too much of a good thing, and in the short term it may work, but soon enough people are going to realise it's essentially the same service, taking the same route it always did, it's just going to become a flop like Sapphire and Max.



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(08 Sep 2020, 6:06 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The issue is, as much as they'd like it to be, Consett isn't exactly somewhere you want to go (no offence to people from Consett, but I ain't wrong). It's somewhere you commute from. And in that regard, I think only having Xlines and Venture isn't a bad thing. You're either going to be travelling very locally, and use Venture, or quite far away, and use Xlines.

Imo, they should have had one, maybe 2 Xlines routes from Consett to Newcastle, but with having literally every service Xlines, they're trying to have too much of a good thing, and in the short term it may work, but soon enough people are going to realise it's essentially the same service, taking the same route it always did, it's just going to become a flop like Sapphire and Max.

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Must say this is a very confusing reply. The top part disagrees with what I said and the 2nd part says the total opposite and agrees haha.

The X45/X46/X47 is the odd one out for me and it shoudn't be part of it. The Red Kite was a strong brand as it was and obviously I don't have stats to back it up but, a strong rebrand with the emphasis on the Red Kites and the new buses and features would do as well. People like localised stuff and it's one of the few brands in the North East that nailed it imo and it's not a express services on route or an express service of another route at all so there's going to be very disappointed people when they discover the branding makes no sense. 308/X7/X8 at Blyth prime examples for the same problem with Max. Least the X30 etc is an express 6; X20 20, X21 21, X1 4/56, X84/X85 10 etc. The X15 is questionable aswell.

The X30/X31/X70/X71 should definitely be X-Lines though

They only thing questionable about been X-Lines is the X45/46/47 because they mainly a stopper service but I think the main reason giving is they X45 and X46 take about the same between Newcastle and Consett as the X70 and X71
I think the quickest service is the hourly X30

(08 Sep 2020, 6:22 pm)Storx wrote Must say this is a very confusing reply. The top part disagrees with what I said and the 2nd part says the total opposite and agrees haha.

The X45/X46/X47 is the odd one out for me and it shoudn't be part of it. The Red Kite was a strong brand as it was and obviously I don't have stats to back it up but, a strong rebrand with the emphasis on the Red Kites and the new buses and features would do as well. People like localised stuff and it's one of the few brands in the North East that nailed it imo and it's not a express services on route or an express service of another route at all so there's going to be very disappointed people when they discover the branding makes no sense. 308/X7/X8 at Blyth prime examples for the same problem with Max. Least the X30 etc is an express 6; X20 20, X21 21, X1 4/56, X84/X85 10 etc. The X15 is questionable aswell.

The X30/X31/X70/X71 should definitely be X-Lines though

I'm typing it on my phone while cooking so I'm not surprised it doesn't make sense! [emoji23]

Basically, I think they should have kept 45/46 as they were, but added an Xlines variant alongside either the 45 or 46, similar to the X21 and 21.

To me, an express route is more about the end to end, rather than picking people up along the way, so for all intents and purposes, the 45 and 46 are the same route. No need to have both as express.

X47, I can sort of understand, it's faster than the 10A.

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(08 Sep 2020, 6:22 pm)Storx wrote Must say this is a very confusing reply. The top part disagrees with what I said and the 2nd part says the total opposite and agrees haha.

The X45/X46/X47 is the odd one out for me and it shoudn't be part of it. The Red Kite was a strong brand as it was and obviously I don't have stats to back it up but, a strong rebrand with the emphasis on the Red Kites and the new buses and features would do as well. People like localised stuff and it's one of the few brands in the North East that nailed it imo and it's not a express services on route or an express service of another route at all so there's going to be very disappointed people when they discover the branding makes no sense. 308/X7/X8 at Blyth prime examples for the same problem with Max. Least the X30 etc is an express 6; X20 20, X21 21, X1 4/56, X84/X85 10 etc. The X15 is questionable aswell.

The X30/X31/X70/X71 should definitely be X-Lines though

Agree re the Red Kite and localised brands. Would prefer to see that over XLines any day of the week. Totally get the change though.

Aside from being forced to rebrand due to interworking patterns being introduced at the time (X31), the services having roughly the same end-to-end journey time as the X70/X71 even before the non-stopping between Metrocentre and Newcastle probably helped justify the rebrand further.

(08 Sep 2020, 6:38 pm)S813 FVK wrote Agree re the Red Kite and localised brands. Would prefer to see that over XLines any day of the week. Totally get the change though.

Aside from being forced to rebrand due to interworking patterns being introduced at the time (X31), the services having roughly the same end-to-end journey time as the X70/X71 even before the non-stopping between Metrocentre and Newcastle probably helped justify the rebrand further.

Surely though that would be more the X70/X71 shouldn't be X-Lines either from Consett's perspective. Neither of them are exactly express services anyway. Least the X70/X71 has express parts along the route for example the 6 from Dipton and Sunniside then it's the express service to Team Valley and Lobley Hill from Gateshead vs the 1 and 97 but really ever since the 43 and 44 we're scrapped they're not really express services either really. The X45/46/47 doesn't have anything at all bar the 10A from Blackhall Mill but that's scraping the bar a bit, they're not really the same route.

The allocations is a fair reason though mind and I do understand why they've done it to improve passengers but long term it'll become worthless like Max at Blyth imo.

Back to the original discussion though and talking of local brands I hope the Saltwell Park brand does stay in some form as it's another of the few brands that has some local connection rather than your generic and pointless ones like Fab 56, Citylink, The Loop etc.

(08 Sep 2020, 7:02 pm)Storx wrote Surely though that would be more the X70/X71 shouldn't be X-Lines either from Consett's perspective. Neither of them are exactly express services anyway. Least the X70/X71 has express parts along the route for example the 6 from Dipton and Sunniside then it's the express service to Team Valley and Lobley Hill from Gateshead vs the 1 and 97 but really ever since the 43 and 44 we're scrapped they're not really express services either really. The X45/46/47 doesn't have anything at all bar the 10A from Blackhall Mill but that's scraping the bar a bit, they're not really the same route. 

The allocations is a fair reason though mind and I do understand why they've done it to improve passengers but long term it'll become worthless like Max at Blyth imo.

Back to the original discussion though and talking of local brands I hope the Saltwell Park brand does stay in some form as it's another of the few brands that has some local connection rather than your generic and pointless ones like Fab 56, Citylink, The Loop etc.

I'm surprised more hasn't been done to speed up the X1. It can be painful at times due to the stop/start nature of the southern portion of the route.
In addition to speeding up journies so it was comparible with the X5 of yore, it could have also assisted with marketing and the subsequent reduction in frequency/PVR.

(08 Sep 2020, 7:02 pm)Storx wrote Surely though that would be more the X70/X71 shouldn't be X-Lines either from Consett's perspective. Neither of them are exactly express services anyway. Least the X70/X71 has express parts along the route for example the 6 from Dipton and Sunniside then it's the express service to Team Valley and Lobley Hill from Gateshead vs the 1 and 97 but really ever since the 43 and 44 we're scrapped they're not really express services either really. The X45/46/47 doesn't have anything at all bar the 10A from Blackhall Mill but that's scraping the bar a bit, they're not really the same route.

The allocations is a fair reason though mind and I do understand why they've done it to improve passengers but long term it'll become worthless like Max at Blyth imo.

Back to the original discussion though and talking of local brands I hope the Saltwell Park brand does stay in some form as it's another of the few brands that has some local connection rather than your generic and pointless ones like Fab 56, Citylink, The Loop etc.

Perhaps they'll brand it as E-Lines!

(08 Sep 2020, 7:02 pm)Storx wrote Surely though that would be more the X70/X71 shouldn't be X-Lines either from Consett's perspective. Neither of them are exactly express services anyway. Least the X70/X71 has express parts along the route for example the 6 from Dipton and Sunniside then it's the express service to Team Valley and Lobley Hill from Gateshead vs the 1 and 97 but really ever since the 43 and 44 we're scrapped they're not really express services either really. The X45/46/47 doesn't have anything at all bar the 10A from Blackhall Mill but that's scraping the bar a bit, they're not really the same route.

The allocations is a fair reason though mind and I do understand why they've done it to improve passengers but long term it'll become worthless like Max at Blyth imo.

Back to the original discussion though and talking of local brands I hope the Saltwell Park brand does stay in some form as it's another of the few brands that has some local connection rather than your generic and pointless ones like Fab 56, Citylink, The Loop etc.

Apart from 'Connections 4' which is one of the cringiest brand names left (before branding was stepped up around 2015), everything else has got a decent brand name now imo. Some of them might not be very local but they don't have shambolic names. The Loop should make a comeback as I believe it was one of the first branded routes. It's also accurate as well, it really is a loop!   

I think the 49s should be renamed Blaydon Racers, local branding + a decent brand. Any idea why it was taken away from the 49s.

(08 Sep 2020, 7:12 pm)Adtrainsam wrote Apart from 'Connections 4' which is one of the cringiest brand names left (before branding was stepped up around 2015), everything else has got a decent brand name now imo. Some of them might not be very local but they don't have shambolic names. The Loop should make a comeback as I believe it was one of the first branded routes. It's also accurate as well, it really is a loop!   

I think the 49s should be renamed Blaydon Racers, local branding + a decent brand. Any idea why it was taken away from the 49s.

Because it didn't follow the route of blaydon races closely the 12/12A do

(08 Sep 2020, 5:40 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I think there's going to be far too much Gold in Newcastle as well.
X-lines stands out when there's only a few buses, but the issue with making things express purely for the branding, like they did with the Red Kites, is that everything is going to look the same.
There's the X1, X21, X30, X31, X70, X71, X84 and X85 all running from Eldon Square, all gold at the front.
It's going to be an absolute nightmare figuring out which one is which when they inevitably end up at the wrong stand. Sure, they've got that little stripe of colour on the front, but when you're in a rush you won't see it.
Plus, after a week or two, people just aren't going to take notice anymore, whereas when it's just the X21 and X30, you still see people point at them after a year

I think you will find something called a destination display on front, both sides and rear to help 

(08 Sep 2020, 7:44 pm)citaro5284 wrote I think you will find something called a destination display on front, both sides and rear to help 

Can't remember what Eldon Square is like, but I know at Durham the destination displays are actually too high to see unless you're literally standing at the window, and because of the angle they're parked at, you can't really see the side display either.
I've lost count of the times I've got the Newcastle X21 when I've meant to get the Bishop one when they're at the wrong stand (Another reason why they should still be at opposite ends of the station!)

(08 Sep 2020, 5:40 pm)streetdeckfan wrote There's the X1, X21, X30, X31, X70, X71, X84 and X85 all running from Eldon Square, all gold at the front.
It's going to be an absolute nightmare figuring out which one is which when they inevitably end up at the wrong stand.

Christ, I wonder how operators with a standard corporate livery ever get any punters...

(08 Sep 2020, 7:48 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Can't remember what Eldon Square is like, but I know at Durham the destination displays are actually too high to see unless you're literally standing at the window, and because of the angle they're parked at, you can't really see the side display either.
I've lost count of the times I've got the Newcastle X21 when I've meant to get the Bishop one when they're at the wrong stand (Another reason why they should still be at opposite ends of the station!)

Some how, I dont think that has anything to do with the buses.....more the person getting on 

(08 Sep 2020, 7:56 pm)citaro5284 wrote Some how, I dont think that has anything to do with the buses.....more the person getting on 

To be fair, one of the times the driver had the wrong destination on! I've now got into the habit of asking the driver if it is the one that goes to Bishop!

(08 Sep 2020, 7:10 pm)Andreos1 wrote I'm surprised more hasn't been done to speed up the X1. It can be painful at times due to the stop/start nature of the southern portion of the route.
In addition to speeding up journies so it was comparible with the X5 of yore, it could have also assisted with marketing and the subsequent reduction in frequency/PVR.

Must say I don't know the route too well tbh, least you've got the quicker North section though it's better than nothing.

(08 Sep 2020, 7:12 pm)Adtrainsam wrote Apart from 'Connections 4' which is one of the cringiest brand names left (before branding was stepped up around 2015), everything else has got a decent brand name now imo. Some of them might not be very local but they don't have shambolic names. The Loop should make a comeback as I believe it was one of the first branded routes. It's also accurate as well, it really is a loop!   

I think the 49s should be renamed Blaydon Racers, local branding + a decent brand. Any idea why it was taken away from the 49s.

Oh I don't know about that:
'Tyne Valley Ten' with it's tacky branding which looks like some form of carnival.
'Little Coasters' which are irrelevant to the coast and the Coaster bus route.
'Fab 56' with it's flowers.
'Indigo' which is as corporate as you can get (look's alright though).

When talking about local brands I'd love to see something more on the N. East pit heritage maybe on the Peterlee locals. Blaydon Racers was always a good brand but not sure the 12/12A really needs to be branded without going overboard.

Creativewise the Pink Panther in Durham had to be the best brand though especially if you get the reason behind it even known it's corny as hell haha.

(08 Sep 2020, 7:48 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Can't remember what Eldon Square is like, but I know at Durham the destination displays are actually too high to see unless you're literally standing at the window, and because of the angle they're parked at, you can't really see the side display either.
I've lost count of the times I've got the Newcastle X21 when I've meant to get the Bishop one when they're at the wrong stand (Another reason why they should still be at opposite ends of the station!)

You'd be buggared if you needed an Arriva bus in Durham especially with their allocations

(08 Sep 2020, 8:07 pm)Storx wrote Oh I don't know about that:
'Tyne Valley Ten' with it's tacky branding which looks like some form of carnival.
'Little Coasters' which are irrelevant to the coast and the Coaster bus route.
'Fab 56' with it's flowers.
'Indigo' which is as corporate as you can get (look's alright though).

When talking about local brands I'd love to see something more on the N. East pit heritage maybe on the Peterlee locals. Blaydon Racers was always a good brand but not sure the 12/12A really needs to be branded without going overboard.

Creativewise the Pink Panther in Durham had to be the best brand though especially if you get the reason behind it even known it's corny as hell haha.


You'd be buggared if you needed an Arriva bus in Durham especially with their allocations

I personally loathe the Tyne Valley Ten branding, it looks like a 5 year old designed it. 
I really like the Little Coasters branding, although like you say it has sod all to do with the coast!
The less said about the Fab 56 the better, whoever thought that idea was good really needs their eyes sorted.
I do actually quite like Indigo, at least it stands out.

I know I've said it before, my favourite brand was The Castles Express, the name flows quite well and it is really quite relevant to the route, I will admit the livery was quite bland, but I wish they'd kept the name.

I wonder what the new StreetDecks would be like at Durham, the route number is considerably higher than on the old StreetDecks with it having the double depth displays so it really would be impossible to see!

(08 Sep 2020, 8:21 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I personally loathe the Tyne Valley Ten branding, it looks like a 5 year old designed it. 
I really like the Little Coasters branding, although like you say it has sod all to do with the coast!
The less said about the Fab 56 the better, whoever thought that idea was good really needs their eyes sorted.
I do actually quite like Indigo, at least it stands out.

I know I've said it before, my favourite brand was The Castles Express, the name flows quite well and it is really quite relevant to the route, I will admit the livery was quite bland, but I wish they'd kept the name.

TVT always puzzled me, the "Ten" was a strong brand imo - and the colours used made it look premium, moving to TVT eradicated that somewhat. Thinking back there have been some truly awful brands over the years. 

I'm an advocate of having brands where necessary, such as on flagship routes or express services, then a strong corporate livery with minimal route branding elsewhere - otherwise it just gets messy. GNE seem to be heading that way at the moment - the 2019 corporate livery is smart, then X-Lines groups together the express routes well (though I think the X9/X10 should have its own brand), and money makers like the 21 having its own brand.

(08 Sep 2020, 8:33 pm)mb134 wrote TVT always puzzled me, the "Ten" was a strong brand imo - and the colours used made it look premium, moving to TVT eradicated that somewhat. Thinking back there have been some truly awful brands over the years. 

I'm an advocate of having brands where necessary, such as on flagship routes or express services, then a strong corporate livery with minimal route branding elsewhere - otherwise it just gets messy. GNE seem to be heading that way at the moment - the 2019 corporate livery is smart, then X-Lines groups together the express routes well (though I think the X9/X10 should have its own brand), and money makers like the 21 having its own brand.

Exactly, I used to love the 'TEN' branding, especially on the B9s. I remember coming out of school when they first got them and thinking 'ooh, they look fancy' as it drove past. 

I like the look of X-Lines on the X9/X10 coaches, but the front looks absolutely horrendous, probably worse than the back of Stagecoach's new livery!

(08 Sep 2020, 8:40 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I like the look of X-Lines on the X9/X10 coaches, but the front looks absolutely horrendous, probably worse than the back of Stagecoach's new livery!

Oh don't get me wrong, they look the part. I just think that with premium coaches, on that sort of route, a bespoke brand would be even better - you need to set that apart from the standard express services.

(08 Sep 2020, 8:33 pm)mb134 wrote TVT always puzzled me, the "Ten" was a strong brand imo - and the colours used made it look premium, moving to TVT eradicated that somewhat. Thinking back there have been some truly awful brands over the years. 

Until they began to look quite tatty when panels were replaced due to the silver being difficult to colour-match.

Tyne Valley Ten actually focuses on the route somewhat in design as well as in the name. It's the better brand imo.

Which brands do you think will go in the near future

I like the X66 but it needs a refresh

Connects4 will probably go I think it replaced metrolink

10/A/B will probably get a rebrand when it's buses go for refurbishment

Crusader will probably stay because it has links to the local area

Fab 56 is awful should be branded service though

City-link will go and I kinda of like it but it just links different areas of Gateshead to Newcastle

(08 Sep 2020, 8:43 pm)S813 FVK wrote Until they began to look quite tatty when panels were replaced due to the silver being difficult to colour-match.

Tyne Valley Ten actually focuses on the route somewhat in design as well as in the name. It's the better brand imo.

I agree that the name is probably better, but the design... It's absolutely awful. 

When I say it looks like it was designed by a 5 year old, I'm probably being a bit generous. There's far too much going on in the bottom half, the bunting looks out of place at the top, the banners look like an afterthought because they needed somewhere to put the text (and even then, it isn't actually lined up in the centre of the banner!)
It just looks tacky. I honestly don't think I have anything positive to say about it.

It's one brand that I definitely could be improved miles by changing it to the new style.

(08 Sep 2020, 7:11 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Perhaps they'll brand it as E-Lines!

Gateshead Electrics
Tyneside Electrics

Or if the 97 got electrics aswell green arrow would make sense.

MG has been to Yutong to finalise the UK finished items of the electric vehicles.
https://twitter.com/martijngne/status/13...53730?s=21

(11 Sep 2020, 4:50 pm)ne14ne1 wrote MG has been to Yutong to finalise the UK finished items of the electric vehicles.
https://twitter.com/martijngne/status/13...53730?s=21

Those look quite smart, they'll stand out in Leeds

(11 Sep 2020, 6:33 pm)Michael wrote Those look quite smart, they'll stand out in Leeds

I wonder who designed the livery for those, it looks very familiar!

The Electric buses should be arriving next weekend from China, as they left China on the 19th August.

Which docks will they arrive at?