(02 Feb 2021, 8:20 pm)JP6004 wrote Says Go 2 Middlesbrough for me

Goo 2 Middlesbrough

(02 Feb 2021, 8:20 pm)JP6004 wrote Says Go 2 Middlesbrough for me

Wonder if there's a 'come straight back from Middlesbrough' plate?

Anyway, it's Go Middlesbrough to me. 
An offshoot of GNE?

(02 Feb 2021, 4:34 pm)streetdeckfan wrote As per the latest fleet news update currently delivered is (assuming i haven't manage to screw up my copy and pasting)

7150 - OW15 WJZ - re-registered to GO02 MBR (quite possibly the worst private plate I've ever seen)
7152 - OW15 WKB - re-registered to XL09 NCL
7153 - OW15 WKC - re-registered to XL10 NCL
7154 - OW15 WKD - re-registered to X9 XLS
7155 - OW15 WKE - re-registered to X10 LNE
7156 - OW15 WKF - re-registered to X10 XLS


Having done a bit of checking on the DVLA site, GO02 NCL has also been registered so I'd imagine that'll go on 7151

Seems like a waste of money to me, especially in the middle of a pandemic - I doubt the normal passengers will notice.

(03 Feb 2021, 11:11 pm)busmanT wrote Seems like a waste of money to me, especially in the middle of a pandemic - I doubt the normal passengers will notice.

They probably spent no more than £500 a plate getting them re-registered, which I'd imagine is nothing compared to getting them upseated, re-approved, and even re-painted

(03 Feb 2021, 11:11 pm)busmanT wrote Seems like a waste of money to me, especially in the middle of a pandemic - I doubt the normal passengers will notice.

It's those priorities again. 
I think the coaches are a positive step-change in what has been used recently, but like all the repaints, the faffing around with blinds, fluorescent lights on the sides of buses - these plates aren't really that important in the grand scheme of things.
Certainly not, compared to the ensuring the network is fit for purpose and people can get where they need to be. 
It's all fine and well having these things, but if it takes 2 or 3 buses to get to the hospital for appointments or  it's not possible to get home from a shift...
Sorting those things are the priority imo. Not cherished plates.

(04 Feb 2021, 11:04 am)Andreos1 wrote It's those priorities again. 
I think the coaches are a positive step-change in what has been used recently, but like all the repaints, the faffing around with blinds, fluorescent lights on the sides of buses - these plates aren't really that important in the grand scheme of things.
Certainly not, compared to the ensuring the network is fit for purpose and people can get where they need to be. 
It's all fine and well having these things, but if it takes 2 or 3 buses to get to the hospital for appointments or  it's not possible to get home from a shift...
Sorting those things are the priority imo. Not cherished plates.

You have voiced this opinion lots of times recently, and it's rare that others contribute afterwards (I too have resisted comment until now), but couldn't you say much of this about every bus operator in the region?

Over the last few years especially; each of the 'big three' has reduced service levels, covering gaps as best as they can, in order to reduce costs and increase profitability. You have your views on this, and have voiced them in the past many times over the years, but this is the business model of bus companies, and you know that (despite the views and opinions you may have on it). These service reductions do obviously come at the detriment of the customer, and operators' desires to maintain as many links as possible probably adds layers of complexity to the network too. Very little has been done to develop the network and implement real, noticeable improvements. This is unfortunate, I agree.

The current funding arrangements (CBSSG) prevent operators from making significant changes to their networks, which is why services such as the 925 and 938 exist in Go North East's network currently. Go North East has made very minor changes to its network in response to customer feedback and by identifying gaps in the market where there is potential, such as the diversion of services 83/84 via Peel Retail Park, and the extension of the 10B service to Tyneview Retail Park.

Unlike most other operators in the country who have simply stood still during the past 10 months, Go North East has continued to invest and use this as an opportunity to deliver a positive impact in what they are able to control, which is their marketing and promotion of bus services (i.e. everything which, in your view, isn't important). Clearly it would not be ethical to promote bus use right now, when the government guidance is that passengers should only be making essential trips only on public transport, but repainting and refurbishing the fleet, and making real improvements in terms of the quality on-board, means that the company will be in a position to better promote their services as we emerge out of the current pandemic. Clearly we have opposing views here, but in the absence of being able to make a difference with the network right now, I think Go North East's actions over the last ten months are commendable.

I am not suggesting that everything Go North East has done of late will deliver improvements and allow the company to be in better standing to increase patronage post-COVID, such as your examples of the 'faffing around' with destination displays. Clearly that's not related, and the fact such changes have been avoided until the current MD's tenure would suggest who is responsible for it, but in the current climate the alternative would of course be to go down the route that Arriva has, where marketing teams have been centralised, and as we were reminded elsewhere on the forum recently, commercial team headcounts reduced, delivering absolutely no benefits whatsoever to their passengers.

To be fair, the rear registration of the coach is about eye level for any car driver following behind. So if a car is stuck in traffic behind the coach, they prob notice the registration and have a little thought, thats a clever plate, then draw their attention to read the rest of the rear of the bus / coach. If you look at the Oxford Bus Company, they've used personalised plates for years. And GNE have used them for years too, mainly they were used on NatEx coaches and B10BLE 4840. These days they aren't used on the NatEx coaches and used instead on the local fleet. Other operators do it too, namely Stagecoach have a number of private plates in use on various coaches and management vehicles. Sometimes these Private plates can be sold on for a good sum. The plate from MetroRider 403 (M3GYP) was sold to a local enthusiast.

(04 Feb 2021, 12:39 pm)Dan wrote You have voiced this opinion lots of times recently, and it's rare that others contribute afterwards (I too have resisted comment until now), but couldn't you say much of this about every bus operator in the region?

Over the last few years especially; each of the 'big three' has reduced service levels, covering gaps as best as they can, in order to reduce costs and increase profitability. You have your views on this, and have voiced them in the past many times over the years, but this is the business model of bus companies, and you know that (despite the views and opinions you may have on it). These service reductions do obviously come at the detriment of the customer, and operators' desires to maintain as many links as possible probably adds layers of complexity to the network too. Very little has been done to develop the network and implement real, noticeable improvements. This is unfortunate, I agree.

The current funding arrangements (CBSSG) prevent operators from making significant changes to their networks, which is why services such as the 925 and 938 exist in Go North East's network currently. Go North East has made very minor changes to its network in response to customer feedback and by identifying gaps in the market where there is potential, such as the diversion of services 83/84 via Peel Retail Park, and the extension of the 10B service to Tyneview Retail Park.

Unlike most other operators in the country who have simply stood still during the past 10 months, Go North East has continued to invest and use this as an opportunity to deliver a positive impact in what they are able to control, which is their marketing and promotion of bus services (i.e. everything which, in your view, isn't important). Clearly it would not be ethical to promote bus use right now, when the government guidance is that passengers should only be making essential trips only on public transport, but repainting and refurbishing the fleet, and making real improvements in terms of the quality on-board, means that the company will be in a position to better promote their services as we emerge out of the current pandemic. Clearly we have opposing views here, but in the absence of being able to make a difference with the network right now, I think Go North East's actions over the last ten months are commendable.

I am not suggesting that everything Go North East has done of late will deliver improvements and allow the company to be in better standing to increase patronage post-COVID, such as your examples of the 'faffing around' with destination displays. Clearly that's not related, and the fact such changes have been avoided until the current MD's tenure would suggest who is responsible for it, but in the current climate the alternative would of course be to go down the route that Arriva has, where marketing teams have been centralised, and as we were reminded elsewhere on the forum recently, commercial team headcounts reduced, delivering absolutely no benefits whatsoever to their passengers.

Totally agree (we need the like button back!)

The unfortunate issue is that direct bus services between everywhere just aren't viable. 

As a passenger, I personally prefer the 'hub and spoke' model when it comes to public transport, I find it much more convenient and logical. I can get to basically anywhere important with one change, and pretty much everywhere else with 2 changes.
And in quite a few cases I can think of it's actually faster to change than use the direct service.
Plus, I'd rather have to take 3 buses to the hospital than not be able to get there at all because not enough passengers used the service that was direct.

As for the bit about all these 'non-important' changes, isn't this the perfect time to try new things out?

Passenger numbers are way down, so messing about with the layout of the destination displays aren't really going to be affecting that many people, and the people travelling are presumably regular users of the bus network (since no leisure travel is allowed) so know what they're doing.

With vehicle requirements being lower, it's the perfect time to have vehicles out of service being refurbished and repainted.

And with these useless features that are a waste of money:

• Those fluorescent lights on the sides of the buses (which, not to be pedantic or owt, are actually LED strips) are actually really useful at lighting up the bus stop at night, many a times I've got off the bus into a massive puddle because I couldn't see!
  
• The tables allow people to work on the bus, I for one always have my laptop out and get work done on the bus, which would be nigh on impossible with the standard seating layout as there's not enough room to open the laptop properly.
  
• USB ports and sockets are actually incredibly useful, I use my phone a lot and with mobile ticketing having a topped up battery can mean the difference between getting home and being stranded
  
• WiFi can be useful, although the 100mb data limit makes it basically useless for me
  

The USBs are useless. That slow at charging. Tend to stick to my power bank.. Unless I'm on Prince Bishops or fab 56s with proper plugs!

(04 Feb 2021, 2:01 pm)idiot wrote The USBs are useless. That slow at charging. Tend to stick to my power bank.. Unless I'm on Prince Bishops or fab 56s with proper plugs!

Depends on if you've got the right cable. My old phone which "fast charging", was full from about 40% in about 3/4 of an hour on one of the new StreetDecks. My new phone with the same lead charged about 10-15% in around 15mins which isn't bad. I can't use the wireless chargers though as my phone case must be too thick to allow it to work at full efficiency.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

(04 Feb 2021, 2:01 pm)idiot wrote The USBs are useless. That slow at charging. Tend to stick to my power bank.. Unless I'm on Prince Bishops or fab 56s with proper plugs!

I've had the opposite issues, the 240v sockets rarely work properly on the StreetDecks/B5s (even the brand new StreetDecks) whereas the USB ports pretty much always work.

They're not the fastest chargers in the world, but they charge my phone from 20-100% on the X21 journey.

The only time I really use the 240v sockets is to charge my laptop (which is against the rules, but yolo), but they can only handle it when the laptop is turned off, apparently the inverter they use isn't powerful enough for a gaming laptop playing at full power (not that I've ever tried or course!)

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

---

(04 Feb 2021, 2:22 pm)6049 wrote Depends on if you've got the right cable. My old phone which "fast charging", was full from about 40% in about 3/4 of an hour on one of the new StreetDecks. My new phone with the same lead charged about 10-15% in around 15mins which isn't bad. I can't use the wireless chargers though as my phone case must be too thick to allow it to work at full efficiency.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

I've noticed the USB ports seem a bit picky with the cables, with the cable that came with my phone doesn't work well, but my Poundland cables work great, but with my power bank they all work the same

I also have a thiccc phone case and the wireless charging works like normal for me, but I've noticed the E400 wireless chargers are a bit temperamental

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

I only use premium cables only tbh.

When are these expected in service

I'm sorry but the upgrades to WiFi and other stuff doesn't account for the cuts that GNE have done in certain areas and I agree with Andreos1 strongly.

Looking at North Tyneside alone in the last 5 years, you can slate Arriva as much as you want but the damage one operator has done to the area outweighs the other 2 considerably. To just to give a quick summary to prove my point.

Stagecoach

• Extended 1 to Cobalt
  
• Extended 22 to Cobalt
  
• New 22X to Cobalt
  
• New buses 39/40/62/63
  
• Reduced service 18 from Forest Hall
  
• Reduced 1 from Four Lane Ends
  
• All evening and Sunday services ran by Stagecoach
  

Arriva

• Extended 306 to Whitley
  
• Extended 51A to Holystone
  
• No new buses
  
• No reductions bar a few very late evening services.
  
• All evening and Sunday services ran by Arriva
  

GoNorthEast

• Repainted some panels and changed seat covers on B9TL's
  
• Retrimmed Quaylinks
  
• Few extra evening 19 services to Cramlington
  
• Reduced 309/310 to every 20 minutes
  
• Reduced 1 to every 20 minutes
  
• Lost links from Gateshead and beyond from Coast Road and Battle Hill (58)
  
• Downgraded the buses on 11/41/42
  
• No new buses that are still here
  
• Butchered the 40/41 in half
  
• Scrapped half of the 42 (tax payers now paying for it).
  
• Most evening and Sunday services paid by the tax payer and not ran by GNE
  

It's all good having a hub and spoke network but when the hubs are dominated by operators who aren't the spokes then it's no wonder the spokes are failing miserable. (Whitley / Shields, Arriva dominate - Wallsend, Stagecoach dominate). It's all good refurbishing and upgrading buses on the same handful of bus routes (20, 21, X21, Consett expresses, X9/X10, 4, 53/54, 56, X1 etc) but for someone who doesn't live on those routes there's no incentive at all to use GNE especially when your bus changes route or timetable every other week with no upgrades at all (Sunderland, North Tyneside and South Shields networks) bar it's now not a 15 year old Omnicity it's now a 10 year old Versa instead (which are much worse).

(04 Feb 2021, 2:25 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I've had the opposite issues, the 240v sockets rarely work properly on the StreetDecks/B5s (even the brand new StreetDecks) whereas the USB ports pretty much always work.

They're not the fastest chargers in the world, but they charge my phone from 20-100% on the X21 journey.

The only time I really use the 240v sockets is to charge my laptop (which is against the rules, but yolo), but they can only handle it when the laptop is turned off, apparently the inverter they use isn't powerful enough for a gaming laptop playing at full power (not that I've ever tried or course!)

I've found that USBs, particularly stuff new in the last few years (GNE 67-plate Streetdecks/B5s onwards, ANE 17 plate MMCs etc), are generally pretty reliable. The ones found on Stagecoach Elite i's have always provided me with the most joy mind, not sure if they have a larger power source given they're a long distance vehicle by design? Either way, if working I generally find USB charging gives 1% every 2-3 minutes. 

I've always found the on wall plugs a bit naff - think I remember reading that once one of them goes, they all go, whereas with USBs they're all independent?

In terms of cables, I've never noticed a huge difference. I've used both OEM and third-party cables with both my old OnePlus 7Pro and my Xperia 5II, both of which have identical battery capacities, and they charge at similar rates through USB - mind the former always got warmer to the touch when charging on a bus (but that's more down to the phone).

(04 Feb 2021, 6:11 pm)Storx wrote I'm sorry but the upgrades to WiFi and other stuff doesn't account for the cuts that GNE have done in certain areas and I agree with Andreos1 strongly.

One of your positives for Arriva is that they run their own evening and Sunday services, but a lot of these are either tendered or receive a de-minimis payment, just like Go North East's services. The difference between them is that Arriva retained their contracts, and they weren't awarded to another operator, as we've seen with Go North East. Come on, Storx, be fair.

There's absolutely no denying the improvements Stagecoach have made, but this has arguably come at the detriment of Go North East's services in this area (exactly what you're complaining about). If there aren't enough customers between the two operators, and passengers have given their custom to Stagecoach (despite all the whizzy gadgets and better marketing from Go North East), then ultimately this will result in service reductions due to the abstraction it has caused. North Tyneside is heavily over-bussed as it's incredibly competitive, and there are no where near enough passengers for all three operators to make a profit.

It does in part support Andreos1's argument that operators need to get the basics (predominantly pricing!) right first, before thinking about any whizzy gadgets, but where I disagree with him, is that he seems to have the belief that the two are mutually exclusive. As I mentioned in my previous post, the current limitations of government support for bus services does mean that 'the basics' can't be changed, but in ordinary circumstances, there's no reason why operators can't do both. It just seems that they rarely do (and that goes for all three, not just Go North East).

And whilst Stagecoach have undeniably done great work in North Tyneside, please don't forget about poor old Sunderland, where they have significantly reduced the network...

(04 Feb 2021, 6:47 pm)Dan wrote One of your positives for Arriva is that they run their own evening and Sunday services, but a lot of these are either tendered or receive a de-minimis payment, just like Go North East's services. The difference between them is that Arriva retained their contracts, and they weren't awarded to another operator, as we've seen with Go North East. Come on, Storx, be fair.

There's absolutely no denying the improvements Stagecoach have made, but this has arguably come at the detriment of Go North East's services in this area (exactly what you're complaining about). If there aren't enough customers between the two operators, and passengers have given their custom to Stagecoach (despite all the whizzy gadgets and better marketing from Go North East), then ultimately this will result in service reductions due to the abstraction it has caused. North Tyneside is heavily over-bussed as it's incredibly competitive, and there are no where near enough passengers for all three operators to make a profit.

It does in part support Andreos1's argument that operators need to get the basics (predominantly pricing!) right first, before thinking about any whizzy gadgets, but where I disagree with him, is that he seems to have the belief that the two are mutually exclusive. As I mentioned in my previous post, the current limitations of government support for bus services does mean that 'the basics' can't be changed, but in ordinary circumstances, there's no reason why operators can't do both. It just seems that they rarely do (and that goes for all three, not just Go North East).

And whilst Stagecoach have undeniably done great work in North Tyneside, please don't forget about poor old Sunderland, where they have significantly reduced the network...

I'll give you that with the contracts to be fair.

I don't know I always think the operators around here miss quite a lot of links, like for example Silverlink where you can't get parked half the time doesn't have a bus service from Whitley Bay or Blyth (unless you want to go across busy roundabouts which isn't ideal with kids) yet the 309/310/311 are all sitting 5 minutes away along Middle Engine Lane, I know the 309 used to go via Silverlink years ago but got diverted because of the traffic (but that's sorted now). The Arnison in Durham is a highlight of how it can be done and the buses are always busy going there. It's similar in the Monkseaton area where there's 11 buses an hour going along by Foxhunters yet Monkseaton doesn't really have a bus service at all since you pulled the 75/76/85/86 (can't remember which) and Marden (since Arriva pulled the 44 and X9).

I'm surprised no-one has looked at the potential of the coast in the Summer aswell, the 306 get's a massive chunk of passengers off to Longsands yet GNE doesn't really serve bar the extremely slow 1. Like I don't know the passengers from Tynemouth to Wallsend end but surely swapping the 310 and 1A/1B between North Shields and Whitley and having a massive campaign about get the 309/310 to the seaside with our XX coaster tickets with Wifi, Comfy Seats etc direct to Longsands and the Aquarium with the 310 or St Mary's Lighthouse, Seaton Sluice or Whitley Bay Amusements with the 309 even potentially with a openbus service like your Beachcomber / Coaster services down in Scarborough / Bridlington service along the Coast. It's just pretty much bringing back the old 75/76/85/86 (still can't remember which done that side).

Mind I'll give you credit for still serving Battle Hill to Newcastle as the 311 is a right basketcase and it's noticeable and has been for awhile with the 58, 57 and everything you's have tried there.

I know I'm quite critical but it always feels like N. Tyneside is the place that's forgotton about and you've even said that people are walking with their feet to Stagecoach and all the mod cons in the world wont fix it. Mind they're definitely not mutually exclusive in general.

(04 Feb 2021, 12:39 pm)Dan wrote You have voiced this opinion lots of times recently, and it's rare that others contribute afterwards (I too have resisted comment until now), but couldn't you say much of this about every bus operator in the region?

Over the last few years especially; each of the 'big three' has reduced service levels, covering gaps as best as they can, in order to reduce costs and increase profitability. You have your views on this, and have voiced them in the past many times over the years, but this is the business model of bus companies, and you know that (despite the views and opinions you may have on it). These service reductions do obviously come at the detriment of the customer, and operators' desires to maintain as many links as possible probably adds layers of complexity to the network too. Very little has been done to develop the network and implement real, noticeable improvements. This is unfortunate, I agree.

The current funding arrangements (CBSSG) prevent operators from making significant changes to their networks, which is why services such as the 925 and 938 exist in Go North East's network currently. Go North East has made very minor changes to its network in response to customer feedback and by identifying gaps in the market where there is potential, such as the diversion of services 83/84 via Peel Retail Park, and the extension of the 10B service to Tyneview Retail Park.

Unlike most other operators in the country who have simply stood still during the past 10 months, Go North East has continued to invest and use this as an opportunity to deliver a positive impact in what they are able to control, which is their marketing and promotion of bus services (i.e. everything which, in your view, isn't important). Clearly it would not be ethical to promote bus use right now, when the government guidance is that passengers should only be making essential trips only on public transport, but repainting and refurbishing the fleet, and making real improvements in terms of the quality on-board, means that the company will be in a position to better promote their services as we emerge out of the current pandemic. Clearly we have opposing views here, but in the absence of being able to make a difference with the network right now, I think Go North East's actions over the last ten months are commendable.

I am not suggesting that everything Go North East has done of late will deliver improvements and allow the company to be in better standing to increase patronage post-COVID, such as your examples of the 'faffing around' with destination displays. Clearly that's not related, and the fact such changes have been avoided until the current MD's tenure would suggest who is responsible for it, but in the current climate the alternative would of course be to go down the route that Arriva has, where marketing teams have been centralised, and as we were reminded elsewhere on the forum recently, commercial team headcounts reduced, delivering absolutely no benefits whatsoever to their passengers.

I've mentioned it repeatedly, because it just seems to be an endless stream of titivating.

I'd argue a little pink bus is no different to a little sort of purple bus. Just as a green back end is no different to a blue back end. Doing away with an established brand name and creating a new one, probably is different. 
Id argue a strip along the side does nowt during the daytime when the majority of punters use the bus and in the spring/summer/early autumn won't see much use at all.
I don't know what sort of increase in numbers will be seen with the what seems like weekly changes on blinds.
I struggle to see how moving the angel about is the work of a marketing genius. 
Yet to see the benefits of replacing a perfectly functional table, with a slightly newer one. 
Struggling to see how money being spent on private plates and disguising the age of the vehicles allocated to the X9/10 is in any way going to attract punters away from the train. 
'Likes' on social media and endless back patting from colleagues with other operators? Erm...

However I do see a network which is stagnant and prior to the pandemic (remember there was life before last March) didn't do what people wanted it to do.
There was repaints, faffing with blinds and re-brands prior to then too.
There was the whole exercise in sticking an X in front of a number and hoping punters thought the route was quicker, faster or nicer than it was the day before when the same route, with same bus stops didn't have an X pre-fix. 

Yet very few improvements to the network in the way of frequency increases (I see decreases.though), route improvements, improved connections, headway tweaks (look at the shambles which is Chester and the sudden rush of buses across a short period of time - then nowt). 

Whilst the extensions to Peel and Prudhoe Retail Parks are (in my opinion) excellent ideas, there's absolutely nothing stopping anyone focusing on improving headways or connections.
There was absolutely nothing stopping network improvements prior to March and there was absolutely nothing stopping the commercial team in re-routing the 25 away from the QE last summer.

Remember, that 925 and 938 only came about due to commercial decisions. Nobody made GNE remove the 238, withdraw the 11 or re-route the 1 and 25. Yet customers are the ones impacted.

But aye, priorities...

(04 Feb 2021, 6:11 pm)Storx wrote I'm sorry but the upgrades to WiFi and other stuff doesn't account for the cuts that GNE have done in certain areas and I agree with Andreos1 strongly.

Looking at North Tyneside alone in the last 5 years, you can slate Arriva as much as you want but the damage one operator has done to the area outweighs the other 2 considerably. To just to give a quick summary to prove my point.

Stagecoach

• Extended 1 to Cobalt
  
• Extended 22 to Cobalt
  
• New 22X to Cobalt
  
• New buses 39/40/62/63
  
• Reduced service 18 from Forest Hall
  
• Reduced 1 from Four Lane Ends
  
• All evening and Sunday services ran by Stagecoach
  

Arriva

• Extended 306 to Whitley
  
• Extended 51A to Holystone
  
• No new buses
  
• No reductions bar a few very late evening services.
  
• All evening and Sunday services ran by Arriva
  

GoNorthEast

• Repainted some panels and changed seat covers on B9TL's
  
• Retrimmed Quaylinks
  
• Few extra evening 19 services to Cramlington
  
• Reduced 309/310 to every 20 minutes
  
• Reduced 1 to every 20 minutes
  
• Lost links from Gateshead and beyond from Coast Road and Battle Hill (58)
  
• Downgraded the buses on 11/41/42
  
• No new buses that are still here
  
• Butchered the 40/41 in half
  
• Scrapped half of the 42 (tax payers now paying for it).
  
• Most evening and Sunday services paid by the tax payer and not ran by GNE
  

It's all good having a hub and spoke network but when the hubs are dominated by operators who aren't the spokes then it's no wonder the spokes are failing miserable. (Whitley / Shields, Arriva dominate - Wallsend, Stagecoach dominate). It's all good refurbishing and upgrading buses on the same handful of bus routes (20, 21, X21, Consett expresses, X9/X10, 4, 53/54, 56, X1 etc) but for someone who doesn't live on those routes there's no incentive at all to use GNE especially when your bus changes route or timetable every other week with no upgrades at all (Sunderland, North Tyneside and South Shields networks) bar it's now not a 15 year old Omnicity it's now a 10 year old Versa instead (which are much worse).

Some excellent points here which really ram home how operators are working (or were working) prior to the pandemic.

Once people remove the apparent glitz and glamour or take off the rose-tinted specs, things can be pretty poor.

Ah but Andreos a decent service doesn’t get you the much needed approval of transport dinosaur Roger French who seems to be inexplicably adored by those in power in bus companies despite having extremely archaic views. He is however very easily impressed by a paint job and a retweet.

The 309/310/311 is actually a very clever but simple idea.

Before the changes:
- Total PVR was 25 (309/310/57)
- Passengers along the Coast Rd didn't want Central Newcastle, they wanted St Mary's & Haymarket
- Due to 309 needing to go standalone, this resulted in inefficient driver rostering as a driver (correct me if wrong) couldn't do 5 hours on the 309 (2hr30 round trip) due to time in the pool van needing to be taken into account.

Basically, they've ironed all 3x of the above problems out whilst maintaining an even more frequent service as well as a regular service on individual routes.

If Arriva dropped the 306 & 308 frequency to every 20 mins (10 combined) but made sure all journeys were double deck operated, they'd maintain roughly the same seats per hour on combined sections. And if Blyth to Billy Mill was proving too popular for a 20 min service (unlikely post COVID), introducing a parallel half hourly X38 would make more sense.

As for the Marden part of the 306, Arriva could extend the 51A via Murton Village and at the same time.......gain extra funding by partially replacing the 359.

(04 Feb 2021, 11:22 pm)L469 YVK wrote The 309/310/311 is actually a very clever but simple idea.

Before the changes:
- Total PVR was 25 (309/310/57)
- Passengers along the Coast Rd didn't want Central Newcastle, they wanted St Mary's & Haymarket
- Due to 309 needing to go standalone, this resulted in inefficient driver rostering as a driver (correct me if wrong) couldn't do 5 hours on the 309 (2hr30 round trip) due to time in the pool van needing to be taken into account.

Basically, they've ironed all 3x of the above problems out whilst maintaining an even more frequent service as well as a regular service on individual routes.

If Arriva dropped the 306 & 308 frequency to every 20 mins (10 combined) but made sure all journeys were double deck operated, they'd maintain roughly the same seats per hour on combined sections. And if Blyth to Billy Mill was proving too popular for a 20 min service (unlikely post COVID), introducing a parallel half hourly X38 would make more sense.

As for the Marden part of the 306, Arriva could extend the 51A via Murton Village and at the same time.......gain extra funding by partially replacing the 359.

It really isn't though, you might think on paper it's a good idea but on the ground it really isn't. Your obsessed with the Coast Road where no-one gives a toss who the bus is as it's like £1.50 for a single so it's cheaper to get singles so you get on whatever comes first - I used to live there so know it happens. The money is from Whitley / Shields and there's no reason for people to use it especially from Whitley. It's more expensive, less frequent, runs earlier in the evening and takes longer. There's just no reason for anyone to pick it unless your obsessed with tables like Streetdeck.

You also have an obsession to remove the 306 from Whitley to Tynemouth but it's a killer for GoNorthEast as someone from Blyth has absolutely no incentive to use the 309, it's less frequent, more expensive and there's less routes for your money if you need to change and it's the same from Tynemouth / Marden (with cheaper ticketing available for the 306/308). Why choose the 1 when you can get the 306 which offers more journeys and a quicker journey to Newcastle (remember the 1 has been cut aswell - partially by Stagecoach aswell putting the hammer in with the 22 in Wallsend aswell)

For example from South Beach; you'd have the X7, X9 and 308 (not far away) with routes to everywhere and changes at Cramlington to even further places or Blyth to anywhere North. The 309 has nothing, you've got the 1 at Whitley which is covered now by the 306 and the 11 to tbh no-where, not to mention the 309 is less frequent.

The fact the 309/310 went instantly every 30 minutes and Arriva have kept both the 306/308 every 20 minutes pretty much sums what the numbers are like and the 311 has been running with Omnicity's as it's dead and a 20/30 minute service is a big difference.

GoNorthEast are in trouble in N. Tyneside imo and they're backtracking off instead of competing, they just pretty much gave up Wallsend to Cobalt after Stagecoach went for it. It's why I come across harsh when people attack Arriva and gloryify GNE as the GNE I see is the same as the Arriva they attack. For example Arriva have newer buses than GNE in N. Tyneside (2014 vs 2013) and that's saying something and Arriva have never that I'm aware downgraded an investment with 2nd hand stock not even in standard interior.

(04 Feb 2021, 11:03 pm)Ambassador wrote Ah but Andreos a decent service doesn’t get you the much needed approval of transport dinosaur Roger French who seems to be inexplicably adored by those in power in bus companies despite having extremely archaic views. He is however very easily impressed by a paint job and a retweet.

Aye, I've wondered that too. 
No issue against the fella personally, but the 'likes' and RT's brigade are part of the problem imo and the aparent obsession with incessant titivating over network improvements.

It doesn't seem to matter that an NHS worker can't get to their shifts at the QE using the bus or doesn't have a hope in being able to get a bus home at the end of the shift. 
Bizarrely if that was seen to and some sort of commercial service allowed people to get to/from work during a pandemic, it would probably would get a few 'likes' and RT's!
Although it might not be from the 'right' people. 

Whenever I see Roger's name mentioned, I always hark back to his apparent dislike of cove panels which protect kids from sexual abuse... 
http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2013...otographs/



I find it utterly bizarre that anyone would have anything against something which promoted a helpline relating to that sort of subject.
It may well not be the nicest subject to talk about, but come on...

(04 Feb 2021, 9:53 pm)Andreos1 wrote Some excellent points here which really ram home how operators are working (or were working) prior to the pandemic.

Once people remove the apparent glitz and glamour or take off the rose-tinted specs, things can be pretty poor.

Don't forget the complete mess Arriva made of the North Tyneside and SE Northumberland services back in 2010. Especially when they withdrew the 44 from Hazelrigg to Whitley Bay. If there was any excuse not yo use the bus and use the car then this was it. Every bus that has served Marden since has been useless taking the best part of an hour or more to get to Newcastle. No we don't want Battle Hill or Cobalt or to go via Tynemouth and North Shields first before a slow dawdle up the coast road.

(05 Feb 2021, 11:44 am)ian foster wrote Don't forget the complete mess Arriva made of the North Tyneside and SE Northumberland services back in 2010. Especially when they withdrew the 44 from Hazelrigg to Whitley Bay. If there was any excuse not yo use the bus and use the car then this was it. Every bus that has served Marden since has been useless taking the best part of an hour or more to get to Newcastle. No we don't want Battle Hill or Cobalt or to go via Tynemouth and North Shields first before a slow dawdle up the coast road.

Yes, but that doesn’t suit the agenda here. It seems that Andreos1 would prefer to focus on the negatives of Go North East (nobody is denying the service reductions over the years being negative) and ignore that Arriva and Stagecoach are both guilty of doing the same, just without the same marketing (sorry, titivating) efforts going alongside it.

I made the point about Stagecoach carving up the Sunderland network time and time again yesterday, and that was disregarded too, as it doesn’t suit the agenda.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As a user of the 44 in my younger days abit the Newcastle to hazlerigg section i was under the impression this service was pulled due to low numbers of passengers from whitly to Newcastle and the problems to service had keeping to time. I did shopping for my parents in Newcastle every Saturday morning and each time i get the 1000am or 1030am bus back to the rigg hardly anyone would alight from this service. and that was me getting on a either Newgate street or blacket street which were the fisrt stop in Newcastle to unload.

(05 Feb 2021, 12:03 pm)Dan wrote Yes, but that doesn’t suit the agenda here. It seems that Andreos1 would prefer to focus on the negatives of Go North East (nobody is denying the service reductions over the years being negative) and ignore that Arriva and Stagecoach are both guilty of doing the same, just without the same marketing (sorry, titivating) efforts going alongside it.

I made the point about Stagecoach carving up the Sunderland network time and time again yesterday, and that was disregarded too, as it doesn’t suit the agenda.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What agenda is that Dan?
The only agenda I have is to discuss GNE ops (good or bad) in the GNE part of the forum.

If I have an opinion on SNE or ANE, then I discuss it in that part of the forum like I have done in the past. 

Keen to know what other agenda I'm supposed to have.

(04 Feb 2021, 12:39 pm)Dan wrote You have voiced this opinion lots of times recently, and it's rare that others contribute afterwards (I too have resisted comment until now), but couldn't you say much of this about every bus operator in the region?

Over the last few years especially; each of the 'big three' has reduced service levels, covering gaps as best as they can, in order to reduce costs and increase profitability. You have your views on this, and have voiced them in the past many times over the years, but this is the business model of bus companies, and you know that (despite the views and opinions you may have on it). These service reductions do obviously come at the detriment of the customer, and operators' desires to maintain as many links as possible probably adds layers of complexity to the network too. Very little has been done to develop the network and implement real, noticeable improvements. This is unfortunate, I agree.

The current funding arrangements (CBSSG) prevent operators from making significant changes to their networks, which is why services such as the 925 and 938 exist in Go North East's network currently. Go North East has made very minor changes to its network in response to customer feedback and by identifying gaps in the market where there is potential, such as the diversion of services 83/84 via Peel Retail Park, and the extension of the 10B service to Tyneview Retail Park.

Unlike most other operators in the country who have simply stood still during the past 10 months, Go North East has continued to invest and use this as an opportunity to deliver a positive impact in what they are able to control, which is their marketing and promotion of bus services (i.e. everything which, in your view, isn't important). Clearly it would not be ethical to promote bus use right now, when the government guidance is that passengers should only be making essential trips only on public transport, but repainting and refurbishing the fleet, and making real improvements in terms of the quality on-board, means that the company will be in a position to better promote their services as we emerge out of the current pandemic. Clearly we have opposing views here, but in the absence of being able to make a difference with the network right now, I think Go North East's actions over the last ten months are commendable.

I am not suggesting that everything Go North East has done of late will deliver improvements and allow the company to be in better standing to increase patronage post-COVID, such as your examples of the 'faffing around' with destination displays. Clearly that's not related, and the fact such changes have been avoided until the current MD's tenure would suggest who is responsible for it, but in the current climate the alternative would of course be to go down the route that Arriva has, where marketing teams have been centralised, and as we were reminded elsewhere on the forum recently, commercial team headcounts reduced, delivering absolutely no benefits whatsoever to their passengers.

But I think the point being made is what you describe as “not standing still” and “continue to invest” is being done in the wrong places. Or being done in such a minor way just to ‘save face’. The main things in the last year are new buses on the X10. The coaches, as Andreos1 and others have said, is an improvement for the service, but these were committed to before the pandemic. So I’m not overly convinced on the investment and improvements within the last ten months? They’ve done the *usual* mid life repaints and internal refurb of the Fab 56 B9s and now the Connections 4 citaros. The Washington solos are the arguably only repaid that wouldn’t be due now. 
I must admit, I’m also of the opinion of these number plates being pointless at best, surely if the number plates what people are looking at, not the branded livery of the coach, I’d get in touch with the designer of the livery!

(05 Feb 2021, 1:07 pm)Drifter60 wrote But I think the point being made is what you describe as “not standing still” and “continue to invest” is being done in the wrong places. The main things in the last year are new buses on the X10. The coaches, as Andreos1 and others have said, is an improvement for the service, but these were committed to before the pandemic. So I’m not overly convinced on the investment and improvements within the last ten months? They’ve done the *usual* mid life repaints and internal refurb of the Fab 56 B9s and now the Connections 4 citaros. The Washington solos are the only repaint that wouldn’t be due now, and while the livery (except the name, in my opinion) looks good, I’m not sure we can say the change from ‘indigo’ to ‘little pinks’ is a passenger priority. And I must admit, I’m also of the opinion of these X9/X10 number plates being pointless at best, surely if the number plates what people are looking at, not the branded livery of the coach, I’d get in touch with the designer of the livery!

---

But I think the point being made is what you describe as “not standing still” and “continue to invest” is being done in the wrong places. Or being done in such a minor way just to ‘save face’. The main things in the last year are new buses on the X10. The coaches, as Andreos1 and others have said, is an improvement for the service, but these were committed to before the pandemic. So I’m not overly convinced on the investment and improvements within the last ten months? They’ve done the *usual* mid life repaints and internal refurb of the Fab 56 B9s and now the Connections 4 citaros. The Washington solos are the arguably only repaid that wouldn’t be due now. 
I must admit, I’m also of the opinion of these number plates being pointless at best, surely if the number plates what people are looking at, not the branded livery of the coach, I’d get in touch with the designer of the livery!

The coaches weren't committed to before the pandemic. In fact, if my memory serves me right, the plan wasn't to upgrade the X9/X10 for another year or two (and even then, they'd basically ruled out buying coaches and were looking at the more heavy duty service buses), until the opportunity came up to swap the StreetDecks they already had on order for Oxford's coaches.

(05 Feb 2021, 12:23 pm)Rob44 wrote As a user of the 44 in my younger days abit the Newcastle to hazlerigg section i was under the impression this service was pulled due to low numbers of passengers from whitly to Newcastle and the problems to service had keeping to time. I did shopping for my parents in Newcastle every Saturday morning and each time i get the 1000am or 1030am bus back to the rigg hardly anyone would alight from this service. and that was me getting on a either Newgate street or blacket street which were the fisrt stop in Newcastle to unload.

Those two reasons are the reasons for almost all service reductions, though, it doesn't matter who the operator is. That goes back to the point that I keep alluding to - in that this isn't an issue unique to Go North East, and not even that it's limited to the operators in our region - it's an industry-wide issue (perhaps a separate thread would be more appropriate). If a service was very profitable and had no issues with timekeeping, service reductions wouldn't be made.

The industry needs to do something to combat this issue, but quite how they do this, is down to each individual operator. Services with timekeeping issues is likely to caused by congestion - but why is there congestion? Increased car use. Why is there increased car use? Because, presumably, public transport is not desirable to those people in cars. Why is it undesirable? Because buses run too infrequently, aren't fast enough, are too expensive, or don't run late enough..? Why don't buses run more frequently, have faster journey times, and so on..?

Bringing this back to our region, some operators are choosing to do nothing (or, the bare minimum). A steady stream of fare increases and service reductions, with little in the way of improvements being made to the core network, is a vicious circle of buses becoming less desirable, and passengers seeking an alternative means of travel (whatever that may be - including to a rival bus company).

Other operators are taking a different approach - I don't think anyone can deny (not even Andreos1!) that Go North East is focusing on improving the customer experience on-board their buses through significant investment (into new and refurbished vehicles), and having a big focus on marketing, in order to try and drive some growth. It isn't just a case of the company titivating and seeking mutual back-slapping from industry professionals. They have also avoided a 'traditional' fares increase for some time now, instead reducing fares or introducing better-value tickets (flexible weekly tickets, 24-hour tickets, or group tickets). If this results in growth - and it is a big if - then the extra revenue could be pumped back into the network, in order to improve the basic fundamentals, which Andreos1 suggests would drive better growth.

The unfortunate thing in all of this, is that COVID-19 has had an unprecedented (everyone's favourite buzzword!) impact on the public transport sector. This will, undoubtedly, result in a long-term patronage reduction (a fair assumption would be 20% - people who are now working from home, have lost confidence in the cleanliness of public transport, or even those who have sadly lost their life). All these improvements being made right now by Go North East will hopefully reduce that long-term patronage reduction, but the proof will be in the pudding. I'd definitely expect them to be in a better standing than Arriva, who have invested very little in recent years, and done next to nothing by way of fundamental improvements.

(05 Feb 2021, 1:25 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The coaches weren't committed to before the pandemic. In fact, if my memory serves me right, the plan wasn't to upgrade the X9/X10 for another year or two (and even then, they'd basically ruled out buying coaches and were looking at the more heavy duty service buses), until the opportunity came up to swap the StreetDecks they already had on order for Oxford's coaches.

Correct. The pandemic, and reduced capital expenditure available from the Group, meant that operators were tasked with reviewing their fleets meaning it could be aligned to a group-wide strategy. This resulted in the swap of some of Go North East's new StreetDecks to Oxford (which they required for contractual commitments), for their otherwise-surplus interdeck coaches, which meant that Go North East's planned investment for the X9/X10 could be cancelled.