(27 May 2021, 5:54 pm)big mac wrote Ah, yes, I forgot it went to the Galleries.

Hopefully it will be regular fares with day/week/monthly tickets being accepted.  Also, hopefully this will apply on all of the night services as it would be a bit unfair if, for example, it was regular fares on the 56 and 60 but not the N21.

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No idea if it will last, but on the bottom of the 24hr tickets, they specifically say that they're valid on the X9/10 and night services.
Hopefully it continues and they're all valid.

One of the many barriers to it not working previously was the ticketing arrangements imo.

(27 May 2021, 7:58 pm)Andreos1 wrote No idea if it will last, but on the bottom of the 24hr tickets, they specifically say that they're valid on the X9/10 and night services.
Hopefully it continues and they're all valid.

One of the many barriers to it not working previously was the ticketing arrangements imo.

I think the two main reasons for them not being successful were the ticketing and the fact that there were no other connecting services that ran during the night. So if you weren't lucky enough to live right along the route of a night bus, unless you were prepared to get off and walk a fair distance to get home it wasn't much use.

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(27 May 2021, 8:24 pm)big mac wrote I think the two main reasons for them not being successful were the ticketing and the fact that there were no other connecting services that ran during the night.  So if you weren't lucky enough to live right along the route of a night bus, unless you were prepared to get off and walk a fair distance to get home it wasn't much use. 

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Without a doubt.
Think I've shared the tale of my two hour walk one morning after getting off a 21 in Chester and seeing all the taxis had gone home for the night.

The sunrise was absolutely spectacular.
So were the blisters and hangover.

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/new-247-bu...t_oSWwcr90

These 24/7 services are all well and good, but once again are still useless for most people unless you happen to live and work (or drink!) on one of the three routes!

I would find the N21 very useful on a Sunday night as I could get the bus down to Pity Me and then get a lift the rest of the way when my mother finishes work at 2:30am. But, since there's no N49 I'd either have to walk the 2 miles into Gateshead, or get a lift to Gateshead, at which point I may as well just get a lift all the way there.

Even if they just did a 2 hourly service on some of the other key routes during the night, it would probably make the services a lot more useful for people!

(28 May 2021, 10:31 am)streetdeckfan wrote These 24/7 services are all well and good, but once again are still useless for most people unless you happen to live and work (or drink!) on one of the three routes!

I would find the N21 very useful on a Sunday night as I could get the bus down to Pity Me and then get a lift the rest of the way when my mother finishes work at 2:30am. But, since there's no N49 I'd either have to walk the 2 miles into Gateshead, or get a lift to Gateshead, at which point I may as well just get a lift all the way there.

Even if they just did a 2 hourly service on some of the other key routes during the night, it would probably make the services a lot more useful for people!

The likes of an N49 could be a good shout in the future to be fair. You can understand with them being a bit cautious introducing these as the Stagecoach ones failed fairly recently. If these are successful I'm sure they'll look at more in the future.

(28 May 2021, 10:31 am)streetdeckfan wrote Even if they just did a 2 hourly service on some of the other key routes during the night, it would probably make the services a lot more useful for people!

Realistically though, there's only so many night services that can be justified. It's not like in London and Edinburgh for example, where the night buses are mainly inner city routes, the GNE night buses are a different kettle of fish - particularly the ones you're suggesting. 

Demand for 5 of the 7 days per week on all of the services GNE are doing is probably minimal at best (reliant on shift workers who don't drive, I'd imagine), hoping for a boost on the weekends. Further increasing operational costs on further routes which don't even serve a large city, is only likely to make the whole nightbus operation cease again. You'd have to fork out for additional drivers (who will probably be on an enhanced rate given the hours), extra fuel, extra associated maintenance costs, potentially costs to keep an extra depot open overnight or costs for route learning. Couple all of that with the fact that GNE aren't even charging a premium fare (as they did previously, and as many other operators do) for those services, margins will be slim to begin with regardless.

(28 May 2021, 12:12 pm)mb134 wrote Realistically though, there's only so many night services that can be justified. It's not like in London and Edinburgh for example, where the night buses are mainly inner city routes, the GNE night buses are a different kettle of fish - particularly the ones you're suggesting. 

Demand for 5 of the 7 days per week on all of the services GNE are doing is probably minimal at best (reliant on shift workers who don't drive, I'd imagine), hoping for a boost on the weekends. Further increasing operational costs on further routes which don't even serve a large city, is only likely to make the whole nightbus operation cease again. You'd have to fork out for additional drivers (who will probably be on an enhanced rate given the hours), extra fuel, extra associated maintenance costs, potentially costs to keep an extra depot open overnight or costs for route learning. Couple all of that with the fact that GNE aren't even charging a premium fare (as they did previously, and as many other operators do) for those services, margins will be slim to begin with regardless.

Makes me wonder why they bothering they can’t be that many people using them either especially during the week. Friday and Saturday and Sunday nights on Bank Holidays I can see working but not an average Wednesday night during the week. Saying that I wonder if a night time X10 would work with it been weekends only.

(28 May 2021, 12:12 pm)mb134 wrote Realistically though, there's only so many night services that can be justified. It's not like in London and Edinburgh for example, where the night buses are mainly inner city routes, the GNE night buses are a different kettle of fish - particularly the ones you're suggesting. 

Demand for 5 of the 7 days per week on all of the services GNE are doing is probably minimal at best (reliant on shift workers who don't drive, I'd imagine), hoping for a boost on the weekends. Further increasing operational costs on further routes which don't even serve a large city, is only likely to make the whole nightbus operation cease again. You'd have to fork out for additional drivers (who will probably be on an enhanced rate given the hours), extra fuel, extra associated maintenance costs, potentially costs to keep an extra depot open overnight or costs for route learning. Couple all of that with the fact that GNE aren't even charging a premium fare (as they did previously, and as many other operators do) for those services, margins will be slim to begin with regardless.

I think that's the issue they've got.
Do they start small and have some of the same issues as previous.
Or do they go for it?

The barriers to the network succeeding last time, haven't all been removed and although the 50 and 60 is now running and we are seeing mention of the 60 connecting to the 56 at Park Lane, it's not much good for anyone unless they live within walking distance of the 60 route. 
Assuming they live anywhere near the A19, then for all the positive intentions, car is still going to be easier, quicker and cheaper. Particularly after a horrendous back shift. I'd certainly not want to be joining the drunken masses in Sunderland if I'd been at work for hours and was using the 56 and 60 to get home.


The 4 is going to be serving Amazon at Follingsby. Which again, is great for those who live on the route or can connect to it easily. 
For those living any many parts of the region, it will still be quicker, easier and cheaper to drive in. 

I desperately want this to work.
I want people to make that modal switch.
But until we see more of the barriers to public transport removed (never mind the ones which exist on the night services) and see some creative thinking that offers a viable alternative, I don't think it will work.

Night services start again tonight.... wonder who'll be the first get some photos.

I have a question about the 60 - "The service will also connect with Cityrider 56 at Park Lane Interchange in Sunderland to provide shift workers with an easy way of getting to Nissan".

Wonder if this means it'll interwork as 2/3 minutes isn't much time to go from stand D to Stand T - and of if any of them is late then they would miss the bus.

(29 May 2021, 7:41 am)Michael wrote Night services start again tonight.... wonder who'll be the first get some photos.

I have a question about the 60 - "The service will also connect with Cityrider 56 at Park Lane Interchange in Sunderland to provide shift workers with an easy way of getting to Nissan".

Wonder if this means it'll interwork as 2/3 minutes isn't much time to go from stand D to Stand T - and of if any of them is late then they would miss the bus.

Yes the services 56 & 60 interwork using corporate liveried Streetlites.  Services 4 & 50 are also using corporate liveried Streetlites as all 4 services are operating from Deptford depot.

(29 May 2021, 9:59 am)BFK wrote Yes the services 56 & 60 interwork using corporate liveried Streetlites.  Services 4 & 50 are also using corporate liveried Streetlites as all 4 services are operating from Deptford depot.

Thank you for the information, which stand in Park Lane will the 56 and 60 use?

(29 May 2021, 10:20 am)Michael wrote Thank you for the information, which stand in Park Lane will the 56 and 60 use?

They will use there normal stands.

(28 May 2021, 12:12 pm)mb134 wrote Realistically though, there's only so many night services that can be justified. It's not like in London and Edinburgh for example, where the night buses are mainly inner city routes, the GNE night buses are a different kettle of fish - particularly the ones you're suggesting. 

Demand for 5 of the 7 days per week on all of the services GNE are doing is probably minimal at best (reliant on shift workers who don't drive, I'd imagine), hoping for a boost on the weekends. Further increasing operational costs on further routes which don't even serve a large city, is only likely to make the whole nightbus operation cease again. You'd have to fork out for additional drivers (who will probably be on an enhanced rate given the hours), extra fuel, extra associated maintenance costs, potentially costs to keep an extra depot open overnight or costs for route learning. Couple all of that with the fact that GNE aren't even charging a premium fare (as they did previously, and as many other operators do) for those services, margins will be slim to begin with regardless.

Let's be real, they'd be better off not running the night services during the week at all. Like you say, margins will be slim.

So, to me you either go all in, and make it a cohesive network so people are actually able to use the services at night, or you don't bother at all.

The thing they've done this time to try and make it more attractive is making the fares palatable for most passengers, but the issue still remains that unless you live and are travelling to a place directly on one of the routes, you're screwed.

Even running a very limited service on some of the other key routes, such as the X-Lines network, or the 49, 27 etc. would make it so the night buses aren't only of for the people living in city centres!

(29 May 2021, 11:54 am)streetdeckfan wrote Let's be real, they'd be better off not running the night services during the week at all. Like you say, margins will be slim.

So, to me you either go all in, and make it a cohesive network so people are actually able to use the services at night, or you don't bother at all.

The thing they've done this time to try and make it more attractive is making the fares palatable for most passengers, but the issue still remains that unless you live and are travelling to a place directly on one of the routes, you're screwed.

Even running a very limited service on some of the other key routes, such as the X-Lines network, or the 49, 27 etc. would make it so the night buses aren't only of for the people living in city centres!

But tbf only places that would be open after normal services stop would be in the city centres. You wouldn't have a night bus going from wardley to lobley hill, just dont see point in night buses if they dont connect workers or city centre nightlife

where ive live i had an option of a night bus but it meant a 2 mile walk home which inst easy when your merry. Now i would have the option of the N21, jumping off at either the coach and horse or the angel and walking 4 miles to home. Does not make me want to use the night bus in any shape or form but to be fair im not sure drinks and socialites are who these are aimed at?

What type of passenger is GNE targeting with the overnight 60? I get the 56 as it runs past Nissan so obviously there's a potential market there with shift workers on weekdays as well. However with the 60 does it go past any major sites of employment?

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With the N21, the weekend journeys were always quite busy but what put people off the original 7 day a week service was you couldn’t use standard passes at night so it added extra cost. It also didn’t help they subbed the normal vehicles for something less luxurious on an evening.

I don’t think a bunch of increasingly grumpy bus enthusiasts are the target demo tbh

It’s nice to see something else tried commercially, let’s not knock it.

Before the night buses were cancelled. Wasn't it just the N56 and the N21. As that's the only two buses I remember having the N Branding on it. Which I liked tbh

(29 May 2021, 4:02 pm)Micheal Aaron wrote Before the night buses were cancelled. Wasn't it just the N56 and the N21. As that's the only two buses I remember having the N Branding on it. Which I liked tbh

There was an N58 and N97. Also there was an N20 in Durham.

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(29 May 2021, 2:37 pm)big mac wrote What type of passenger is GNE targeting with the overnight 60? I get the 56 as it runs past Nissan so obviously there's a potential market there with shift workers on weekdays as well.  However with the 60 does it go past any major sites of employment? 

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There's a reason why there's a 5:20am 60 that terminates at New Seaham already, there's a lot of people who work at Seaham Grange industrial estate and use the 60.

It seems Deptford are running the late night 50 journeys

In case anyone wants to know what’s on the N21, it’s Angel Streetdecks. 6320/24 are operating them at the time of typing this.


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(29 May 2021, 10:34 pm)Ds1197 wrote It seems Deptford are running the late night 50 journeys

And the 4.

Just wondering if anybody has an early indication on how the night services have been doing so far?

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