(18 Oct 2021, 7:38 pm)Jimmi wrote One downside however is it would put the times on the 7 completely out of whack diverting one via Amazon & Bowburn. Done a quick rough mock up using the times (see below) from the existing X12 from Bowburn to Durham although think my estimated 11 mins from Ferryhill is a bit tight. Would have to be direct otherwise you effectively end up with a 56A and it wouldn't be able to go through Metal Bridge itself owing to the low bridge.

To keep this on track with GNE, if they were to run there probs be best if they were to trial a service there would either be best to run a standalone service as a trial or extend another Durham service, my suggestion being X5/X15 to offer better Cross city connections like how the 21 is now running to Brandon.

Aye that's a good point about the timings totally went over my head suppose they could go for a diversion somewhere else on the 7 and have it every 15 minutes out of Durham and just out of timings in the central section but yeah I different service extended would probably be better.

Probably suggests why there isn't a service tbh as it's not as easy as it seems.

(19 Oct 2021, 1:46 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Could always extend some Angels down to Amazon.

I mean you could, they could go there instead of Brandon, but you could have to make Newcastle to Durham then Brandon/Bowburn every 15 mins to serve each at a 15 min frequency. Or you could send some 20's or X20's down there. Maybe 65/65A.

(19 Oct 2021, 1:46 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Could always extend some Angels down to Amazon.

I mean you could, they could go there instead of Brandon, but you could have to make Newcastle to Durham then Brandon/Bowburn every 15 mins to serve each at a 15 min frequency. Or you could send some 20's or X20's down there. Maybe 65/65A.

Quite a lot of Amazon workers were at Heworth tonight a packed out the 17;50 4 with the latter left over spilling onto the 17:57 peak extra, wasn't many on the following extra at 18:11 when it arrived at Amazon as again most got on the standard 4 beforehand. 

The service this evening was operated by Voyager Omnidekka's 6172 & 6175.

Had a few sociable beverages yesterday and two of the group I was with used the bus to get there. 
The 4 was brought up and those 2 who used the bus, could have used the 4 to get to our rendezvous point.
They both voiced concerns about the length of the journey now the 4 has been diverted (or the apparent length - I imagine it is similar to the Coast Road effect with the slip roads and it seemingly taking longer than it actually does).
Anyway, to cut a long story short, neither used the 4 there or back. One even arranged a pick up from Heworth on the way home.
Is the diversion of the 4 and apparent success of the change for Amazon workers, sustainable over the apparent dissatisfaction of regular customers? 
Granted it was a small sample (remember that discussion eezypeazy - guessing you may still lurk), but it would be interesting to see what impact the diversion is having and what other regular passengers on that portion of the route actually think of it.

(03 Jan 2022, 11:56 am)Andreos1 wrote Had a few sociable beverages yesterday and two of the group I was with used the bus to get there. 
The 4 was brought up and those 2 who used the bus, could have used the 4 to get to our rendezvous point.
They both voiced concerns about the length of the journey now the 4 has been diverted (or the apparent length - I imagine it is similar to the Coast Road effect with the slip roads and it seemingly taking longer than it actually does).
Anyway, to cut a long story short, neither used the 4 there or back. One even arranged a pick up from Heworth on the way home.
Is the diversion of the 4 and apparent success of the change for Amazon workers, sustainable over the apparent dissatisfaction of regular customers? 
Granted it was a small sample (remember that discussion eezypeazy - guessing you may still lurk), but it would be interesting to see what impact the diversion is having and what other regular passengers on that portion of the route actually think of it.

The diversion feels lengthy, but I think part of that is down to doing a full circle on the A194 roundabout. I'm not sure how you could avoid that safely though, without a costly infrastructure project that delivers little benefit. 

I think the journey time Concord to Heworth was 12 minutes prior to the diversion and now it's 18 minutes. I don't think that's enough to put someone off over the alternatives, as its still a frequent service.

(03 Jan 2022, 12:08 pm)Adrian wrote The diversion feels lengthy, but I think part of that is down to doing a full circle on the A194 roundabout. I'm not sure how you could avoid that safely though, without a costly infrastructure project that delivers little benefit. 

I think the journey time Concord to Heworth was 12 minutes prior to the diversion and now it's 18 minutes. I don't think that's enough to put someone off over the alternatives, as its still a frequent service.

One walked 10mins to wait for the X1 from the Galleries, as opposed to getting the 4 and the diversion. He then got a lift home from Heworth to avoid the 4.

Not judging, but it is something he now prefers doing over the 4 to/from the bottom of the street. 

I likened it back to the old 294 diversion through Coach Road Estate. People would try to get the 194, because they perceived the 294 to be too slow. Think that diversion was replicated with the M3 at one point.

(03 Jan 2022, 12:17 pm)Andreos1 wrote One walked 10mins to wait for the X1 from the Galleries, as opposed to getting the 4 and the diversion. He then got a lift home from Heworth to avoid the 4.

Not judging, but it is something he now prefers doing over the 4 to/from the bottom of the street. 

I likened it back to the old 294 diversion through Coach Road Estate. People would try to get the 194, because they perceived the 294 to be too slow. Think that diversion was replicated with the M3 at one point.

Maybe its just me being a lazy bugger, but even if they added an extra half hour to the journey, I wouldn't walk 10 minutes to only save 20 minutes

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(03 Jan 2022, 12:17 pm)Andreos1 wrote One walked 10mins to wait for the X1 from the Galleries, as opposed to getting the 4 and the diversion. He then got a lift home from Heworth to avoid the 4.

Not judging, but it is something he now prefers doing over the 4 to/from the bottom of the street. 

I likened it back to the old 294 diversion through Coach Road Estate. People would try to get the 194, because they perceived the 294 to be too slow. Think that diversion was replicated with the M3 at one point.

Seems a bit odd to walk 10 mins to avoid an extra couple of minutes on a bus, and then put someone out in giving him a lift home, to avoid a couple extra minutes on the way back. Each to their own I suppose, but I don't think many would use it as a reason to boycott a service.

The 294/M2 diversion (M3 did Stephenson Road/Northumbria Centre) was about the same as the Follingsby extension in adding time to the service. I suppose it worked both ways though, because people heading to Shiney College would use the 294 instead with it dropping off outside the door.

I suppose its not ideal for any service to extend in running time, but at the same time they should serve key spots on a route and not ignore them. Follinsby is a key employment spot on the 4 route for me, and I'm not sure how else you'd serve the park. The old 994 shuttle from Heworth carried nothing but fresh air for years, but clearly Amazon being there has presented a new opportunity that has been acted on.

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I think in some cases, it's part of the planning permission for Amazon to pay towards public transport to serve the area of the site. Though it doesn't apply to all Amazon locations.

Follingsby Park is just sadly in an awkward location meaning either a service terminating there and returning to Heworth, or buses having to loop back on themselves to carry on to their destination. A way around it is to alternate journeys via Amazon, but again would leave an uneven timetable and even worse longer gaps in certain locations between runs if there was a bus missing.

(03 Jan 2022, 9:27 pm)Rapidsnap wrote I think in some cases, it's part of the planning permission for Amazon to pay towards public transport to serve the area of the site. Though it doesn't apply to all Amazon locations.

Follingsby Park is just sadly in an awkward location meaning either a service terminating there and returning to Heworth, or buses having to loop back on themselves to carry on to their destination. A way around it is to alternate journeys via Amazon, but again would leave an uneven timetable and even worse longer gaps in certain locations between runs if there was a bus missing.

The only other alternatives would be a 4A or 4X, but that could present other problems in in terms of PVR & Routing.

(03 Jan 2022, 5:31 pm)Adrian wrote Seems a bit odd to walk 10 mins to avoid an extra couple of minutes on a bus, and then put someone out in giving him a lift home, to avoid a couple extra minutes on the way back. Each to their own I suppose, but I don't think many would use it as a reason to boycott a service.

The 294/M2 diversion (M3 did Stephenson Road/Northumbria Centre) was about the same as the Follingsby extension in adding time to the service. I suppose it worked both ways though, because people heading to Shiney College would use the 294 instead with it dropping off outside the door.

I suppose its not ideal for any service to extend in running time, but at the same time they should serve key spots on a route and not ignore them. Follinsby is a key employment spot on the 4 route for me, and I'm not sure how else you'd serve the park. The old 994 shuttle from Heworth carried nothing but fresh air for years, but clearly Amazon being there has presented a new opportunity that has been acted on.

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It's an interesting one. However broken down, that 10min walk and then taking up the offer of a lift on the way back, probably saved quite a bit of time overall and allowed him to avoid getting to know the roundabout a little more than he does already.

Back in the day before the 294 was extended to Shiney College and was the Harraton/Rickleton bus, that Coach Road diversion was even less of a pull for those travelling that little further on it.

(03 Jan 2022, 9:27 pm)Rapidsnap wrote I think in some cases, it's part of the planning permission for Amazon to pay towards public transport to serve the area of the site. Though it doesn't apply to all Amazon locations.

Follingsby Park is just sadly in an awkward location meaning either a service terminating there and returning to Heworth, or buses having to loop back on themselves to carry on to their destination. A way around it is to alternate journeys via Amazon, but again would leave an uneven timetable and even worse longer gaps in certain locations between runs if there was a bus missing.

It would be interesting to know where the the Amazon workforce were actually travelling from ahead of their shift and the same after a shift. Particularly if GNE are wanting 100% of the fare revenue vs a proportion of it (assuming punters are starting off on a Metro, SNE or ANE bus).

There's also the fact that the road through Follingsby to Nissan is of a lot higher standard than it was in years gone by and has opened up other routes, beyond a simple in and out job off like we see currently or in the past with the 994.

(04 Jan 2022, 10:21 am)Andreos1 wrote It's an interesting one. However broken down, that 10min walk and then taking up the offer of a lift on the way back, probably saved quite a bit of time overall and allowed him to avoid getting to know the roundabout a little more than he does already.

Back in the day before the 294 was extended to Shiney College and was the Harraton/Rickleton bus, that Coach Road diversion was even less of a pull for those travelling that little further on it.

It would be interesting to know where the the Amazon workforce were actually travelling from ahead of their shift and the same after a shift. Particularly if GNE are wanting 100% of the fare revenue vs a proportion of it (assuming punters are starting off on a Metro, SNE or ANE bus).

There's also the fact that the road through Follingsby to Nissan is of a lot higher standard than it was in years gone by and has opened up other routes, beyond a simple in and out job off like we see currently or in the past with the 994.

Follingsby Lane being upgraded is positive, but it still leaves you extremely limited in what you can do in terms of a bus service. 

I don't think any operator will be considering another Sunderland to Newcastle, via North Sunderland estates service anytime soon, which leaves you with extending the Stagecoach 4, GNE 35 or creating a variation to the 56. The latter might sound the more sensible of the three, but you'd then be removing half of the 56 runs from Washington and Springwell Village.

(04 Jan 2022, 11:04 am)Adrian wrote Follingsby Lane being upgraded is positive, but it still leaves you extremely limited in what you can do in terms of a bus service. 

I don't think any operator will be considering another Sunderland to Newcastle, via North Sunderland estates service anytime soon, which leaves you with extending the Stagecoach 4, GNE 35 or creating a variation to the 56. The latter might sound the more sensible of the three, but you'd then be removing half of the 56 runs from Washington and Springwell Village.

Surely the X24 and X34 would be the best routes to send along there. The former is quiet half the time anyway and the X34 if they promised an evening service I'm sure wouldn't be an issue for those in Marden for an extra few minutes. Would be useful for Stagecoach as they'd have a flow of passengers in the opposite directions during the peaks. (Out of Newcastle AM, in Newcastle PM) which are dead atm.

15 minute service for doing not an awful lot with Sunderland and parts of South Shields connected.

(04 Jan 2022, 10:21 am)Andreos1 wrote It would be interesting to know where the the Amazon workforce were actually travelling from ahead of their shift and the same after a shift. Particularly if GNE are wanting 100% of the fare revenue vs a proportion of it (assuming punters are starting off on a Metro, SNE or ANE bus).

I wondered this for whoever it is uses the 02xx Connections4 service from Amazon to Heworth as there's no Metros at that time

(04 Jan 2022, 6:18 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote I wondered this for whoever it is uses the 02xx Connections4 service from Amazon to Heworth as there's no Metros at that time

It's a bit of an odd run, but I assume something Amazon have asked for specifically, and I suppose there's plenty in reasonable walking distance from Heworth Metro, whereas there's nothing in reasonable walking distance of the Amazon site.

(04 Jan 2022, 6:18 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote I wondered this for whoever it is uses the 02xx Connections4 service from Amazon to Heworth as there's no Metros at that time

There's a shift starting at that time, mainly connecting with the 56 at Concord bringing people from Newcastle and Sunderland. Nobody finishing at that time, just taking them to work.

(04 Jan 2022, 6:57 pm)deanmachine wrote There's a shift starting at that time, mainly connecting with the 56 at Concord bringing people from Newcastle and Sunderland. Nobody finishing at that time, just taking them to work.

I figured that's what the Houghton to Amazon part would be - just wondered what the point of the Amazon to Heworth part is if noone is boarding to go to a closed interchange... why not terminate at Amazon and save the dead mileage?

(04 Jan 2022, 10:33 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote I figured that's what the Houghton to Amazon part would be - just wondered what the point of the Amazon to Heworth part is if noone is boarding to go to a closed interchange... why not terminate at Amazon and save the dead mileage?

I've had people stay on to Heworth before, it's only an extra few minutes, why not?

Public Access to Heworth is available at all times, so the bus stops are still available to use, they just have to walk all the way around as the Metro Building is shut.

I could see extra 27's being added if there is demand for connections.
Especially if theres no metro running.