Not sure if region wide, but just had message from GNE that Sunday services are being employed on Saturday. This is from Deptford but unsure if only a local arrangement

(06 Jan 2022, 10:40 am)54APhotography wrote Not sure if region wide, but just had message from GNE that Sunday services are being employed on Saturday. This is from Deptford but unsure if only a local arrangement

I bloody hope not, that'll mean the X21 will stop serving West Auckland on a Saturday as well!

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Deptford (excludes Peterlee), Washington and Consett are the affected depots

Shocking that mind, especially for those who work in retail with early starts on a Saturday. There's also the Newcastle match on Saturday afternoon.

I hope there's some operational exceptions in place, otherwise people aren't going to get to work and those 4s and X1s are going to leave people behind before and after the match.

Leave your car at home and let us take care of your journey... p.s. I hope you wrap up warm and enjoy a long wait in the cold!

(06 Jan 2022, 11:42 am)morritt89 wrote Deptford (excludes Peterlee), Washington and Consett are the affected depots

Is that from this Saturday?  Not a lot of time for people to make alternative arrangements.

Any idea how long for?

From Saturday 8th yes. I only found out from the union late last night and it was confirmed by management this morning.

Further update (Deptford) certain routes are running to a standard Saturday timetable just to confuse things a bit more. These being the low cost/Nexus services which includes the X20 amongst others.

(06 Jan 2022, 4:08 pm)morritt89 wrote Further update (Deptford) certain routes are running to a standard Saturday timetable just to confuse things a bit more. These being the low cost/Nexus services which includes the X20 amongst others.

As in 8th January, they are making this change quick. With only 2 days notice.

In all fairness I am okay with them moving certain services to Sunday services, however I think some like the X1 should be moved to every 20 mins. However routes which are every 30 mins, who on a Sunday is every 60 mins imo should keep to 30 mins. However services like the 20/56 who are every 15 mins but every 20 mins on a Sunday imo they are okay. it is when you slash a service to every hour.

I also wonder if the 38C will run on a Saturday, aswell if the 62/X6 will run with the 33. Aswell as the V's which run very limited servies on a sunday.

And whether the X45/X46 will go to evert 20 mins as especially on a Saturday those and 47/47A can get rammed. Maybe upgrading the 47/47A (after driver shortage) would maybe go upto every 20 mins.

(06 Jan 2022, 4:08 pm)morritt89 wrote Further update (Deptford) certain routes are running to a standard Saturday timetable just to confuse things a bit more. These being the low cost/Nexus services which includes the X20 amongst others.

Wonder when they decide to share it with the wider public? The people using those services and needing to use them to get places. 

There's not much time left to get the message out there.
Is it cynical of me to expect quite a few complaints over the weekend and in to next week?
Is it even more cynical of me to expect a shrug of the shoulders and a 'we told you, we updated the website and notices went on buses - you should have paid attention' kind of response?
Is it inevitable that the drivers who have managed to bat Covid away and haven't moved on to bigger and better things, are the ones who will get it in the neck?

(06 Jan 2022, 4:22 pm)Andreos1 wrote Wonder when they decide to share it with the wider public? The people using those services and needing to use them to get places. 

There's not much time left to get the message out there.
Is it cynical of me to expect quite a few complaints over the weekend and in to next week?
Is it even more cynical of me to expect a shrug of the shoulders and a 'we told you, we updated the website and notices went on buses - you should have paid attention' kind of response?
Is it inevitable that the drivers who have managed to bat Covid away and haven't moved on to bigger and better things, are the ones who will get it in the neck?

Wonder what the chances of it getting announced at 4:59 tomorrow when customer services closes for the weekend?

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(06 Jan 2022, 4:55 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Wonder what the chances of it getting announced at 4:59 tomorrow when customer services closes for the weekend?

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They already online

Sunday timetables running on Saturdays are now online: https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/temporary-...-8-january

It will apply to the following services:

X-lines X1
X-lines X5 | X15
X-lines X20
X-lines X30 | X31
X-lines X45 | X46
X-lines X70 | X71 | X72
Sunderland District Berries 2 | 2A
Connections 4
Service 9
Durham Diamond 16 | 16A
Prince Bishops 20
Service 26
Sunderland District Cherry 35 | 35A
Sunderland District Graphite 39 | 39A
Red Kite Ranger 47 | 47A
Service 50
Sunderland District Violet 55
Cityrider 56
Drifter 60
Sunderland District Blue 61
Country Ranger 78
Little Pinks 82
Little Pinks 84 | 84A
Little Pinks 85

(06 Jan 2022, 5:11 pm)Jimmi wrote Sunday timetables running on Saturdays are now online: https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/temporary-...-8-january

It will apply to the following services:

X-lines X1
X-lines X5 | X15
X-lines X20
X-lines X30 | X31
X-lines X45 | X46
X-lines X70 | X71 | X72
Sunderland District Berries 2 | 2A
Connections 4
Service 9
Durham Diamond 16 | 16A
Prince Bishops 20
Service 26
Sunderland District Cherry 35 | 35A
Sunderland District Graphite 39 | 39A
Red Kite Ranger 47 | 47A
Service 50
Sunderland District Violet 55
Cityrider 56
Drifter 60
Sunderland District Blue 61
Country Ranger 78
Little Pinks 82
Little Pinks 84 | 84A
Little Pinks 85

I understand why they are doing it, but strictly moving all these to Sunday services are going to just be a mess.
X46/X45 get busy at it is, X1 every 30 mins on a Saturday every bus will be rammed. Tbh I think services which run every 10-15 mins normally will be okay. However it is the half hourly services, e.g 78/47/47A/50. 
They should have made special timetables imo for the 47/47A/X45/X46/78/X1/X70/1/2. Lets not forget about the Newcastle match, services are already busy enough as it is then reduce the frequencies even more.

How much more can they reduce frequencies, before people just turn off buses.

(06 Jan 2022, 4:08 pm)morritt89 wrote Further update (Deptford) certain routes are running to a standard Saturday timetable just to confuse things a bit more. These being the low cost/Nexus services which includes the X20 amongst others.

I wonder how it'll be communicated, because I don't think outside of the enthusiast company, people generally know which depot runs which routes. Fair enough you can make an assumption, e.g. 4s are ran by Washington, but who's to say which depot runs the 56 or 50 for example. 

I guess the cost of dropping all the runs on the low cost/Nexus work outweighs dishing out apologies left right and centre to commercial customers, so not at all surprised if that is still running. 

(06 Jan 2022, 4:22 pm)Andreos1 wrote Wonder when they decide to share it with the wider public? The people using those services and needing to use them to get places. 

There's not much time left to get the message out there.
Is it cynical of me to expect quite a few complaints over the weekend and in to next week?
Is it even more cynical of me to expect a shrug of the shoulders and a 'we told you, we updated the website and notices went on buses - you should have paid attention' kind of response?
Is it inevitable that the drivers who have managed to bat Covid away and haven't moved on to bigger and better things, are the ones who will get it in the neck?

I wonder how, as well as when.

Is there technology available to send a push notification out via the app for example? Sure, that only hits a percentage of numbers, but it's a start. I also think having a presence at bus stations is essential, otherwise those without the app or Internet access end up being headless chickens, and it usually results in the drivers getting the stick for it as well sadly.

I also hope that the app will have the correct schedule, so we don't see Saturday services listed or nothing showing as live.

(06 Jan 2022, 4:55 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Wonder what the chances of it getting announced at 4:59 tomorrow when customer services closes for the weekend?

Well, that's another thing... you'd hope there'd be some presence to respond to the Facebook/Twitter queries, at the very least.

Lets just say the FaceBook reactions haven't gone down well to say the least. 

i hope there is someone on social media on Saturday. I also hope they are running the 78 with deckers.

So what's the alternative then? Russle up 30 or whatever extra drivers from thin air?

Expect the fit drivers to come in on their rest days for the same rate of pay and in the process probably get zero thanks for doing so from the company or general public?

I wonder if this has been a sudden idea of how to fix a problem (temporary fix?) or if the idea of dropping to a Sunday service has been a back burner contingency idea for some time?

Long term (depending on how long these emergency measures last) , its only going to confuse passengers and force them to use other transport options such as a car or a rival operator (or Metro). Whilst Covid has devastated many industries, I genuinely don't see how public transport as a whole can get the publics confidence back to where it was prepandemic (and even then public transport had image issues and stigmas attached).

(06 Jan 2022, 6:09 pm)Driver9*** wrote So what's the alternative then? Russle up 30 or whatever extra drivers from thin air?

Expect the fit drivers to come in on their rest days for the same rate of pay and in the process probably get zero thanks for doing so from the company or general public?

GNE won't he the only ones doing some sort of reduced service. Covid is wreaking havoc in the places I know of. Even where rotas are virtually fully staffed! There are only so many times you can move drivers around other depots when they are dropping like flies for isolation

(06 Jan 2022, 6:18 pm)DeltaMan wrote GNE won't he the only ones doing some sort of reduced service. Covid is wreaking havoc in the places I know of. Even where rotas are virtually fully staffed!

My depot is still running about 99% of its services without much problem, albeit thanks to the fact that some of the drivers would happily work 168 hours a week if they physically could.

(06 Jan 2022, 6:18 pm)DeltaMan wrote GNE won't he the only ones doing some sort of reduced service. Covid is wreaking havoc in the places I know of. Even where rotas are virtually fully staffed! There are only so many times you can move drivers around other depots when they are dropping like flies for isolation

This is true. I have heard that Costa in Durham for example have closed their shops, due to high staff sickness as a result of Covid-related absences.

The difference of course is that you can cope without a coffee, whereas those using public transport may be reliant upon it. It makes cancellations and reduction in service a much harder pill to swallow for customers.

I suspect it's a decision not made lightly, but it's best to pre-plan a reduction in service and make customers aware (through as many channels as possible), than a short-notice cancellation, which, despite the company's best efforts, may not be seen by customers who are stood waiting in the cold and rain... I believe this comes after Baroness Vere wrote to all local authorities requesting transport operators who are suffering a staff shortage to change schedules accordingly to reduce staffing levels. I note the Ferry have also reduced their evening service, for example.

(06 Jan 2022, 6:09 pm)Driver9*** wrote So what's the alternative then? Russle up 30 or whatever extra drivers from thin air?

Expect the fit drivers to come in on their rest days for the same rate of pay and in the process probably get zero thanks for doing so from the company or general public?

Encourage people to use their own private car instead? I know that isn't the message they'll be wanting to send, but that is exactly what this is doing. The public perception in public transport reliability is already poor, without it hitting a nuclear low.

Even if this was planned in advance, doing it with less than 48 hours notice is rash and does not give people the time to plan alternative transport.

I realise that this is not impacting one operator, and that it is industry-wide, but as has been discussed on this forum previously. It's not an issue solely created by the pandemic. There are numerous factors involved, but it's one exacerbated by it.

The industry has struggled to recruit and retain staff for years, and must have spent millions over the years in the process.

(06 Jan 2022, 7:18 pm)Adrian wrote Encourage people to use their own private car instead? I know that isn't the message they'll be wanting to send, but that is exactly what this is doing. The public perception in public transport reliability is already poor, without it hitting a nuclear low.

Even if this was planned in advance, doing it with less than 48 hours notice is rash and does not give people the time to plan alternative transport.

I realise that this is not impacting one operator, and that it is industry-wide, but as has been discussed on this forum previously. It's not an issue solely created by the pandemic. There are numerous factors involved, but it's one exacerbated by it.

The industry has struggled to recruit and retain staff for years, and must have spent millions over the years in the process.

Well Arriva still seem to think £9.30/hr is a reasonable starting rate for drivers. Of course it's a pittance but they know there will always be some desperate enough to work for it, hence they get away with it.

In fact, thanks to the Unite union allowing them to bring in a new pay structure unopposed a few years ago, any driver with less than two years service is now earning less than they would have been 6-7 years ago.

Not sure how much this would help but could GNE not suspend all their NX services and use the NX drivers on service work to cover the shortages.

(06 Jan 2022, 10:23 pm)GNE6312 wrote Not sure how much this would help but could GNE not suspend all their NX services and use the NX drivers on service work to cover the shortages.

I don't think National Express would be happy about that.

(06 Jan 2022, 10:49 pm)omnicity4659 wrote I don't think National Express would be happy about that.

Of course contracted work comes first!!

(06 Jan 2022, 10:23 pm)GNE6312 wrote Not sure how much this would help but could GNE not suspend all their NX services and use the NX drivers on service work to cover the shortages.

Surely from a business point of view the National Express work would be more important. It's guaranteed money rather than running a bus that might make money. I'd prioritise those any day of the week.

Not to mention cancelling them will come with a cost aswell.

(06 Jan 2022, 7:18 pm)Adrian wrote Encourage people to use their own private car instead? I know that isn't the message they'll be wanting to send, but that is exactly what this is doing. The public perception in public transport reliability is already poor, without it hitting a nuclear low.

Even if this was planned in advance, doing it with less than 48 hours notice is rash and does not give people the time to plan alternative transport.

I realise that this is not impacting one operator, and that it is industry-wide, but as has been discussed on this forum previously. It's not an issue solely created by the pandemic. There are numerous factors involved, but it's one exacerbated by it.

The industry has struggled to recruit and retain staff for years, and must have spent millions over the years in the process.

Absolutely this.  Why anyone with any other possible alternative would stick with, let alone even consider switching to, public transport after the eternally worsening provision is beyond me.  Realise a lot of this is to an extent (but far from entirely) unavoidable due to current levels of sickness/absence, it only serves to highlight even more the biggest weakness of public transport vs the car - you are at the absolute mercy of the operators in terms of if, or when, your transport turns up (with very little or no notice) let alone how direct or not your route is etc.  Martijn has been really vocal on social media demonising the car and cooing about why there's no need to own one...really?

(07 Jan 2022, 12:17 am)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Absolutely this.  Why anyone with any other possible alternative would stick with, let alone even consider switching to, public transport after the eternally worsening provision is beyond me.  Realise a lot of this is to an extent (but far from entirely) unavoidable due to current levels of sickness/absence, it only serves to highlight even more the biggest weakness of public transport vs the car - you are at the absolute mercy of the operators in terms of if, or when, your transport turns up (with very little or no notice) let alone how direct or not your route is etc.  Martijn has been really vocal on social media demonising the car and cooing about why there's no need to own one...really?

I was unable to get home last night because of a late running 49, so I had to stay over at my grandfather's.

I was even begrudgingly going to pay for an Arriva ticket from Durham to Tindale (since GNE don't have the late X21s anymore), but I only had I think 2 minutes to get the the 21 in Gateshead and the 49 was running about 4 minutes late by the time it left the MetroCentre.

Even then, at Durham I would have only had 1 minute to switch from the 21 to the Arriva 6, so that would have been risky!
There was one last 6 to Bishop after that, but I wasn't going to be standing around for an hour when it's freezing and then walking the 2 miles home when it's icy.

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(06 Jan 2022, 7:18 pm)Adrian wrote Encourage people to use their own private car instead? I know that isn't the message they'll be wanting to send, but that is exactly what this is doing. The public perception in public transport reliability is already poor, without it hitting a nuclear low.

Even if this was planned in advance, doing it with less than 48 hours notice is rash and does not give people the time to plan alternative transport.

I realise that this is not impacting one operator, and that it is industry-wide, but as has been discussed on this forum previously. It's not an issue solely created by the pandemic. There are numerous factors involved, but it's one exacerbated by it.

The industry has struggled to recruit and retain staff for years, and must have spent millions over the years in the process. 

I started to do the maths (granted its using figures and procedures which are 15 years old), but that's when I was last involved in the training of drivers, booking tests, allocating vehicles etc.


At the time, I was in charge of allocating 5 members of the training team to 5 vehicles using a paper based system, booking the tests and ensuring those going through the tests got as much training as they could.
The tests at Sandy Lane were something like 8.45, 10.30, 13.30 and 14.45. You had to book them in advance by ringing the DVLA at the Regent Centre and checking to see what they had.
If there were issues at Sandy Lane or someone had booked the tests up before I'd had a chance to speak to someone, it was a case of hoping for a cancellation (ringing Regent Centre up again and again) or using either Carlisle or Darlington.
So in addition to avoiding the early test, I had to take in to account a range of factors whilst hoping for a late morning test or the afternoon ones (where possible and when available). 

I was paid to do all of that. 


There were the 5 instructors, 5 vehicles (that needed to be roadworthy) and fuel that needed funding too.
This was all in addition to any medicals, theory tests and provisional licence applications.


Quite a significant outlay financially and quite a bit of admin to overcome before the trainee had even set foot in the vehicle.

I appreciate things have changed, with some processes becoming easier or different over the years, but costs were significant. Even then.

(06 Jan 2022, 4:22 pm)Andreos1 wrote Wonder when they decide to share it with the wider public? The people using those services and needing to use them to get places. 

There's not much time left to get the message out there.
Is it cynical of me to expect quite a few complaints over the weekend and in to next week?
Is it even more cynical of me to expect a shrug of the shoulders and a 'we told you, we updated the website and notices went on buses - you should have paid attention' kind of response?
Is it inevitable that the drivers who have managed to bat Covid away and haven't moved on to bigger and better things, are the ones who will get it in the neck?

Will the Sunday running times cope with Saturday passenger levels and Saturday road traffic?
or will there be lots of late running?