Suggestion

New:
- 6x StreetDeck OM936 - X93/X94
- 10x StreetDeck OM936 - X15/X18

Cascades:
- 7401-04 - X20
- 7405 - X14
- 7406 - NE Float Spare
- 7514-17, 7522, 7529-33, 7553-54 - 43/44/45
- 7555-56 - X14

Teesside:
Hydrogen Deckers (funded by Mayor) for service 15, Pulsars released get major refurb and replace remaining Omnicities at Darlington

Northumbria:
Envriro400MMC for Ashington, allowing older E400s to replace Gemini's and some ALX400s across fleets

(16 Jan 2022, 10:17 am)Benny wrote Teesside:
Hydrogen Deckers (funded by Mayor) for service 15, Pulsars released get major refurb and replace remaining Omnicities at Darlington

Northumbria:
Envriro400MMC for Ashington, allowing older E400s to replace Gemini's and some ALX400s across fleets

Replacing the B9TLs on the X93/X94 & E400s on the X15/X18 would in turn then replace most of the 57 reg E400s at Jesmond. They could then take a backseat role replacing some of the Geminis and ALX400s.

I never get the obsession with new buses on the X93 it's a summer bus route that is dead the rest of the year with buses which are perfectly fine.

There's plenty Ex London stock coming out to replace the spare buses, it's single deckers which are more important especially the Omnicity's and the Solo's which are battered which need investment plus something for Ashington as they're shot on the X15.

(16 Jan 2022, 12:06 pm)Storx wrote I never get the obsession with new buses on the X93 it's a summer bus route that is dead the rest of the year with buses which are perfectly fine.

There's plenty Ex London stock coming out to replace the spare buses, it's single deckers which are more important especially the Omnicity's and the Solo's which are battered which need investment plus something for Ashington as they're shot on the X15.

New vehicles for the X93 would allow Volvo B9TLs to be cascaded onto the X20.

(16 Jan 2022, 1:18 pm)L469 YVK wrote New vehicles for the X93 would allow Volvo B9TLs to be cascaded onto the X20.

It doesn't need buses though 7553 - 7556 would be good enough for the X20. The X14 should be ran by single deckers there's no need for Deckers on there. Argubly the X20 doesn't need deckers either, it's dead half the time. They should be multi vehicle like the X7/X8/X9 with some boards (if needed) Decker the rest single.

I wonder if they have a plan to replace the Streetlites on the X3/X4 and 5's at any time soon?
They aren't old buses but have been around a few years now on supposed premium Sapphire routes. If the Sapphire brand is to continue and mean anything, surely it needs fairly new and high spec buses on those services. Or at the very least a decent refurbishment, get the plug sockets, NSA audio and screen working, replace tatty branding and so on.

(19 Jan 2022, 6:40 pm)tvd wrote I wonder if they have a plan to replace the Streetlites on the X3/X4 and 5's at any time soon?
They aren't old buses but have been around a few years now on supposed premium Sapphire routes.  If the Sapphire brand is to continue and mean anything, surely it needs fairly new and high spec buses on those services.  Or at the very least a decent refurbishment, get the plug sockets, NSA audio and screen working, replace tatty branding and so on.

Nothing premium about Sapphire anymore, so the brand has been retired.

Anything new to Arriva will be standard blue from now on.

Aren't the streetlite at redcar do a refurb this year

If a substantial vehicle order is in the pipeline........

Deckers:
- X15/X18 - OM936 StreetDeck or E400MMC (ZF)
- X93/X94 - OM936 StreetDeck
- X21/X22 - E400MMC (ZF) or OM934 StreetDeck

Cascades:
- 7401-04 - X20

- 7405-06 - NE Float Spares(?) *note 7405 could form X14 PVR

- 7522, 7524-28, 7529-33, 7553 - 43/44/45 * note 7522 would form 306/308 PVR if reduced to 13x with 7554 forming the 43/44/45 PVR

- 7541-52 (opt 1) - 308 with 2x spare either at Blyth or staying at Ashington

- 7541-52 (opt 2) - 306/308 if 306 pulled out of Battle Hill and Tynemouth - W.Bay axed. Freq every 20 mins each and interworking with the 13th vehicle (the PVR) being a classic E400

- 7554-56 (opt 1) - X14

- 7555-56 (opt 2 with 7405 or 06) - X14

- 7628-37 & 57 reg E400s - Replace older ALX400s and Geminis

(22 Jan 2022, 3:25 am)L469 YVK wrote If a substantial vehicle order is in the pipeline........

Deckers:
- X15/X18 - OM936 StreetDeck or E400MMC (ZF)
- X93/X94 - OM936 StreetDeck
- X21/X22 - E400MMC (ZF) or OM934 StreetDeck

Cascades:
- 7401-04 - X20

- 7405-06 - NE Float Spares(?) *note 7405 could form X14 PVR

- 7522, 7524-28, 7529-33, 7553 - 43/44/45 * note 7522 would form 306/308 PVR if reduced to 13x with 7554 forming the 43/44/45 PVR

- 7541-52 (opt 1) - 308 with 2x spare either at Blyth or staying at Ashington

- 7541-52 (opt 2) - 306/308 if 306 pulled out of Battle Hill and Tynemouth - W.Bay axed. Freq every 20 mins each and interworking with the 13th vehicle (the PVR) being a classic E400

- 7554-56 (opt 1) - X14

- 7555-56 (opt 2 with 7405 or 06) - X14

- 7628-37 & 57 reg E400s - Replace older ALX400s and Geminis

Could mix it up and buy buses for some different routes aswell. The X7-X11 are ignored on here and are more profitable than the X14.

They're due new buses pretty much:

Scania N113 - 1996
Gemini 7601 - 7615 - 2009
New Buses - 2022

There's also the issue that the Pulsars need to leave Blyth so they need new Deckers since there's no space so why not upgrade the X7/X8/X9 for a change and try and grow a route rather than buying buses over and over again for the X21/22, get arid of all the MAX Pulsars (leaving the non MAX 9 for the 1/2) to replace stuff elsewhere. 7601 -> 7608, 7611/7612 could then go to Durham for the X46 and other routes. Remember Durham had one on loan for absolutely no real reason recently which could possibly have been route testing.

Would leave 7616 -> 7625 for the X10/X11 and 7628 -> 7637 for the 308 who still have a couple years left being 61 plates so in theory are due 2024 with 7613/7614/7615 as spares.

Ashington need new buses for the X15/X18 and that's it and I've already said about the X93/X94 which needs nothing. Well and the 57/57A.

(22 Jan 2022, 9:03 am)Storx wrote Could mix it up and buy buses for some different routes aswell. The X7-X11 are ignored on here and are more profitable than the X14.

They're due new buses pretty much:

Scania N113 - 1996
Gemini 7601 - 7615 - 2009
New Buses - 2022

There's also the issue that the Pulsars need to leave Blyth so they need new Deckers since there's no space so why not upgrade the X7/X8/X9 for a change and try and grow a route rather than buying buses over and over again for the X21/22, get arid of all the MAX Pulsars (leaving the non MAX 9 for the 1/2) to replace stuff elsewhere. 7601 -> 7608, 7611/7612 could then go to Durham for the X46 and other routes. Remember Durham had one on loan for absolutely no real reason recently which could possibly have been route testing.

Would leave 7616 -> 7625 for the X10/X11 and 7628 -> 7637 for the 308 who still have a couple years left being 61 plates so in theory are due 2024 with 7613/7614/7615 as spares.

Ashington need new buses for the X15/X18 and that's it and I've already said about the X93/X94 which needs nothing. Well and the 57/57A.

Blyth could certainly do with investment if they were doing it over a period of two years but Ashington would be the natural choice first. X93/X94 would depend whether deckers are still required on the X14?

- X15/X18 replaced
- X20 newer vehicles
- X14 newer vehicles
- 43/44/45 newer vehicles
- 308 (or 306/308) newer vehicles - note that Voith equipped E400MMCs are better suited to stop/start work like what Stagecoach use them for
- Older ALX400s and B7TLs replaced

Has anyone worked out just how many vehicles Arriva are going to need for the Newcastle CAZ? If it launches in July 2022, then that's not a lot of time left to get sorted.

Does anyone know how the fine for taking a non-Euro6 bus into the CAZ will work? Is it a fine every time, or is it a daily charge?
If it's the latter then as I've said in the past it may be better financially to just pay the fine for the time being rather than rushing out and buying new vehicles when they don't know what numbers will be like

(24 Jan 2022, 4:36 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Does anyone know how the fine for taking a non-Euro6 bus into the CAZ will work? Is it a fine every time, or is it a daily charge?
If it's the latter then as I've said in the past it may be better financially to just pay the fine for the time being rather than rushing out and buying new vehicles when they don't know what numbers will be like

Daily charge.

(24 Jan 2022, 4:32 pm)Adrian wrote Has anyone worked out just how many vehicles Arriva are going to need for the Newcastle CAZ? If it launches in July 2022, then that's not a lot of time left to get sorted.

I might have missed something but on paper, the B7's at Jesmond and the Solo's (which might be done). There's nothing else, Blyth and Ashington (on paper) are already sorted.

The on paper being the B7's and Solo's at Ashington regularly end up in Newcastle which should be on the 35. There's definitely a batch of Pulsars down Durham / Stockton done aswell.

(24 Jan 2022, 5:31 pm)Adrian wrote Daily charge.

So, assuming they sent a bus in the CAZ every day, that would be around £18k in charges, or about 1/10th of a bus. 
Now, I don't know how their finances work, but I'm guessing that's probably about the same, if not a bit less as what they'd pay financing a new bus (depending on spec). 


I've just had a chance to look at the CAZ website and it looks like if they at least have replacement vehicles on order, then they can get out of paying the charges until they arrive.

Temporary exemptions may be in place to cover vehicles where there are arrangements in place for them to be upgraded or where a vehicle may be subject to a finance agreement that is due to expire within a certain time limit.

https://www.breathe-cleanair.com/news/cl...ember-2021

(24 Jan 2022, 4:32 pm)Adrian wrote Has anyone worked out just how many vehicles Arriva are going to need for the Newcastle CAZ? If it launches in July 2022, then that's not a lot of time left to get sorted.

(24 Jan 2022, 5:35 pm)Storx wrote I might have missed something but on paper, the B7's at Jesmond and the Solo's (which might be done). There's nothing else, Blyth and Ashington (on paper) are already sorted.

The on paper being the B7's and Solo's at Ashington regularly end up in Newcastle which should be on the 35. There's definitely a batch of Pulsars down Durham / Stockton done aswell.

Yeah I've also heard that unlike GNE and Stagecoach, Arriva have just chosen to retrofit everything. As mentioned above the only exceptions are the B7 Gemini's and some of the Solo's which shouldn't be too difficult to sort out given rumours of cascades.

(24 Jan 2022, 6:21 pm)peter wrote Yeah I've also heard that unlike GNE and Stagecoach, Arriva have just chosen to retrofit everything. As mentioned above the only exceptions are the B7 Gemini's and some of the Solo's which shouldn't be too difficult to sort out given rumours of cascades.

 
A lot of Jesmond's fleet have been Euro 6 standard for a while.

(24 Jan 2022, 6:21 pm)peter wrote Yeah I've also heard that unlike GNE and Stagecoach, Arriva have just chosen to retrofit everything. As mentioned above the only exceptions are the B7 Gemini's and some of the Solo's which shouldn't be too difficult to sort out given rumours of cascades.

Non Euro 6 buses at Jesmond:

Volvo B7TL - 7412, 7415, 7491
ADL E400 - 7508, 7509, 7522
VDL Pulsar - 1408, 1411, 1500
Solo - 2601, 2602, 2603, 2806, 2817, 2822, 2824, 2825, 2834, 2837, 2840, 2842, 2844, 2845, 2846, 2847, 2848.

Total of 26 to be upgraded and/or replaced based on current fleet size of 58 (for a PVR of 52).


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(25 Jan 2022, 8:06 pm)Dan wrote Non Euro 6 buses at Jesmond:

Volvo B7TL - 7412, 7415, 7491
ADL E400 - 7508, 7509, 7522
VDL Pulsar - 1408, 1411, 1500
Solo - 2601, 2602, 2603, 2806, 2817, 2822, 2824, 2825, 2834, 2837, 2840, 2842, 2844, 2845, 2846, 2847, 2848.

Total of 26 to be upgraded and/or replaced based on current fleet size of 58 (for a PVR of 52).


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Thanks for the further insight Dan, odd that those last couple E400's and Pulsars haven't been done, possible they might be within the next couple months I suppose. Would it be feasible to get all those Solo's done before July?

(25 Jan 2022, 8:19 pm)peter wrote Thanks for the further insight Dan, odd that those last couple E400's and Pulsars haven't been done, possible they might be within the next couple months I suppose. Would it be feasible to get all those Solo's done before July?

I note the mention on another thread that 1411 has transferred to Ashington to replace a Scania Omnicity, and another is likely to follow to replace the second.

Odd that neither are Euro 6, as presumably they’ll be allocated to services going into Newcastle.

There is an exemption for up to a year from July 2022 for any vehicles that an operator can prove are due to be upgraded. I wonder if Arriva are holding out for more council funding?


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(25 Jan 2022, 8:27 pm)Dan wrote I note the mention on another thread that 1411 has transferred to Ashington to replace a Scania Omnicity, and another is likely to follow to replace the second.

Odd that neither are Euro 6, as presumably they’ll be allocated to services going into Newcastle.

There is an exemption for up to a year from July 2022 for any vehicles that an operator can prove are due to be upgraded. I wonder if Arriva are holding out for more council funding?


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Yeah they're likely to end up on the X14 or X20 as that's what the Omni's are used for. Hmm that would make sense, if they can get funding out of the council instead of doing it out of their own pocket I'm sure they would.

I am told tonight, from a reliable source that Arriva have ordered 19 E400 MMC and 14 E200 MMC for delivery by the summer.

These will replace the elderly double deckers at Ashington/Newcastle and the Solos at Newcastle ready for the CAZ.

(19 Feb 2022, 8:23 pm)RobinHood wrote I am told tonight, from a reliable source that Arriva have ordered 19 E400 MMC and 14 E200 MMC for delivery by the summer.

These will replace the elderly double deckers at Ashington/Newcastle and the Solos at Newcastle ready for the CAZ.

19x E400MMC? Will they be Voith gearboxes like 7541-52 or now ZF (with stop start now available in ZF like GNE, EY, Transdev examples)?

Well the decker PVRs for Ashington & Jesmond are as follows
- X21/X22 - 15
- X14 - 3
- X15 - 4
- X18 - 5 (6 summer)
- X20 - 4
- 43 - 7
- 44/45 -5

(19 Feb 2022, 10:14 pm)L469 YVK wrote 19x E400MMC? Will they be Voith gearboxes like 7541-52 or now ZF (with stop start now available in ZF like GNE, EY, Transdev examples)?

Well the decker PVRs for Ashington & Jesmond are as follows
- X21/X22 - 15
- X14 - 3
- X15 - 4
- X18 - 5 (6 summer)
- 43 - 7
- 44/45 -12

Replacements for the X15 / X18 and the 14 plate X21 / X 22s ?

(19 Feb 2022, 10:14 pm)L469 YVK wrote 19x E400MMC? Will they be Voith gearboxes like 7541-52 or now ZF (with stop start now available in ZF like GNE, EY, Transdev examples)?

Well the decker PVRs for Ashington & Jesmond are as follows
- X21/X22 - 15
- X14 - 3
- X15 - 4
- X18 - 5 (6 summer)
- 43 - 7
- 44/45 -12

The X20 is also typically decker allocated too.

Although it doesn't run into Newcastle, the 35 is generally double deck operated too.

Believe the 44/45 PVR is 5?

No clue where the new stock would go for certain, hopefully X15/X18 are in there at least.

Is the X10/X11 move to Ashington still happening? Could be new buses for that, cascading the Geminis to the 35 and current Jesmond routes.

(20 Feb 2022, 1:57 am)Jimmi wrote The X20 is also typically decker allocated too.

Although it doesn't run into Newcastle, the 35 is generally double deck operated too.

Believe the 44/45 PVR is 5?

No clue where the new stock would go for certain, hopefully X15/X18 are in there at least.

Oppps sorry, I've recalculated the PVRs hahaha, it was late.

Well if the deckers are all for Ashington routes, it would work out as:
- 3x - X21/ X22 (to replace classic E400s)
- 3x X14
- 4x X15
- 5x X18
- 4x X20

That's the full 19x allocated. Then the cascades available (18x) would be:
- 7514-17
- 7524-28
- 7529-34
- 7553-56

So they could do:
- 7514-7517 - 35 (PVR shortfall perhaps made up from perhaps 7510)
- 7522, 7524-25 - 43/44/45
- 7526-28 - Ashington spare
- 7529-34 & 7553-56 - 43/44/45

Then there'd be 11x full height E400 from 7501-09 & 7511-12 to replace older Geminis and take a more backseat spare role at Jesmond & Ashington.

I believe that all the Classic E400s have been converted to Euro 6?