(15 Mar 2022, 3:58 pm)Adrian wrote It's likely not needed, when you've got ticket machines that are capable of receiving an accurate time using NTP, along with technology to track early and late operation.

I meant more for passenger use.

Is there a reason they were removed from vehicles rather than just being left in place?

There's a few (or possibly all the) Citaros that still have have them, at least round Sunderland, in varying states of wear - only been on one (can't remember which) where it was properly readable, and you can sort of read the little ones in the cab if you're in the right area.

(15 Mar 2022, 5:50 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I meant more for passenger use.

Is there a reason they were removed from vehicles rather than just being left in place?

Running time can be displayed on the Ticketer machine

(15 Mar 2022, 5:50 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I meant more for passenger use.

Is there a reason they were removed from vehicles rather than just being left in place?

For passenger use, its displayed on the Next Stop screens. So it'll eventually reach 100% as older buses go.

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One oddity that I’ve just noticed looking at that 65 timetable above, is that the short 23:15 journey from Seaham to Hetton, seemed to run off something else, as no 65 came in from Durham at that time. Interesting as someone said that journey must have carried little passengers, but I’m guessing someone used it!

(15 Mar 2022, 5:50 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I meant more for passenger use.

Is there a reason they were removed from vehicles rather than just being left in place?

I’d also hazard a guess that physical digital clocks on buses for simply passenger use was just extra cost for little benefits, most people have a mobile phone, and for the few who might not they’ll most likely wear a watch.

(15 Mar 2022, 7:00 pm)Drifter60 wrote One oddity that I’ve just noticed looking at that 65 timetable above, is that the short 23:15 journey from Seaham to Hetton, seemed to run off something else, as no 65 came in from Durham at that time. Interesting as someone said that journey must have carried little passengers, but I’m guessing someone used it!


I’d also hazard a guess that physical digital clocks on buses for simply passenger use was just extra cost for little benefits, most people have a mobile phone, and for the few who might not they’ll most likely wear a watch.

Why I'm I thinking it was the 21?

Not 100% sure though.

(15 Mar 2022, 7:00 pm)Drifter60 wrote One oddity that I’ve just noticed looking at that 65 timetable above, is that the short 23:15 journey from Seaham to Hetton, seemed to run off something else, as no 65 came in from Durham at that time. Interesting as someone said that journey must have carried little passengers, but I’m guessing someone used it!

It was probably either for some form of quota; note how it differentiates between journeys operated by an Olympian and those operated by a low floor vehicle, or one of those journeys that only existed because the council would subsidise it; there were journeys on the 202 that late (last departure being the 2300 from Peterlee; 2230 from Dalton Park).

Those subsidies were withdrawn in mid 2011 (this is why I feel like the other Peterlee routes are commercial) - here's a timetable from April 2011 and note the last bus is much earlier and the Sunday service has gone completely - also, no mention of non-Easy Access buses, I think this is about the time they sold the ELC Olympians.

(15 Mar 2022, 7:23 pm)F114TML wrote It was probably either for some form of quota; note how it differentiates between journeys operated by an Olympian and those operated by a low floor vehicle, or one of those journeys that only existed because the council would subsidise it; there were journeys on the 202 that late (last departure being the 2300 from Peterlee; 2230 from Dalton Park).

Those subsidies were withdrawn in mid 2011 (this is why I feel like the other Peterlee routes are commercial) - here's a timetable from April 2011 and note the last bus is much earlier and the Sunday service has gone completely - also, no mention of non-Easy Access buses, I think this is about the time they sold the ELC Olympians.

The 204, 206, 201/209/210, 202/208 (Easington/Seaham-Peterlee - now 62/62A) are all mentioned in a DCC list of tenders from a FOI request in 2018 seen here. Unless things have changed since then and GNE have decided to take them on commercially, they won't be up for renewal until October this year (delayed from 2021 due to COVID). I can't see why GNE would turn down funding, and despite all the major service changes the key routes still exist - the only bit that was properly withdrawn was Durham - Easington on the 208 which wasn't supported.

If in fact Peterlee is closing it will be interesting to see if they keep these contracts, particularly for the likes of the 201/209/210 which presumably GNE would now have to factor dead mileage into their bid - Arriva or an independent could outbid them. The rest I presume could more likely stay with GNE, the 62A could interwork with the X6 (and 62) at Peterlee and the 206 could be re-tagged onto the end of the 55.

(16 Mar 2022, 12:26 am)peter wrote The 204, 206, 201/209/210, 202/208 (Easington/Seaham-Peterlee - now 62/62A) are all mentioned in a DCC list of tenders from a FOI request in 2018 seen here. Unless things have changed since then and GNE have decided to take them on commercially, they won't be up for renewal until October this year (delayed from 2021 due to COVID). I can't see why GNE would turn down funding, and despite all the major service changes the key routes still exist - the only bit that was properly withdrawn was Durham - Easington on the 208 which wasn't supported.

If in fact Peterlee is closing it will be interesting to see if they keep these contracts, particularly for the likes of the 201/209/210 which presumably GNE would now have to factor dead mileage into their bid - Arriva or an independent could outbid them. The rest I presume could more likely stay with GNE, the 62A could interwork with the X6 (and 62) at Peterlee and the 206 could be re-tagged onto the end of the 55.

I knew I had seen that document before, thanks for posting. Interesting that it seems the 239 contract should have ran out the same time as the other Peterlee networks but it seems GNE might have forced a change.

On the back of this got me thinking, are there any other GNE routes that are far from a depot? We’ve mentioned the 65 and obviously with the Peterlee depot closing - trying to think of others.

(16 Mar 2022, 2:09 am)Drifter60 wrote I knew I had seen that document before, thanks for posting. Interesting that it seems the 239 contract should have ran out the same time as the other Peterlee networks but it seems GNE might have forced a change.

On the back of this got me thinking, are there any other GNE routes that are far from a depot? We’ve mentioned the 65 and obviously with the Peterlee depot closing - trying to think of others.

The 86D now that it doesn't run of an X21 anymore is quite far out of the way, I believe it's operated by Consett now?

(16 Mar 2022, 2:09 am)Drifter60 wrote I knew I had seen that document before, thanks for posting. Interesting that it seems the 239 contract should have ran out the same time as the other Peterlee networks but it seems GNE might have forced a change.

On the back of this got me thinking, are there any other GNE routes that are far from a depot? We’ve mentioned the 65 and obviously with the Peterlee depot closing - trying to think of others.

434 between Cambois and Linton.
Durham Cathedral Buses
681 between Haltwhistle and Alston

There's also some of the Gateshead / Newcastle services like the Q3 which don't run near Riverside / Percy Main. It's 6.8 mile between Percy Main and St. Peters Basin (it's only 6.9 mile between Deptford and Seaham)

(16 Mar 2022, 2:09 am)Drifter60 wrote On the back of this got me thinking, are there any other GNE routes that are far from a depot? We’ve mentioned the 65 and obviously with the Peterlee depot closing - trying to think of others.

When the 65 moved to Deptford it will be the same as the 60 starting at Parkisde. Or 61 starting at Murton. Or the couple of 55 which start and finish at Peterlee.

(16 Mar 2022, 7:16 am)Unber43 wrote When the 65 moved to Deptford it will be the same as the 60 starting at Parkisde. Or 61 starting at Murton. Or the couple of 55 which start and finish at Peterlee.

The main difference is the reliefs - dead runs are fairy inexpensive and just part of running a bus (sometimes not worth the cost to run it back in service if it takes a lot longer).

The driver reliefs during the day are where the expense is. In all your examples from Deptford, changeovers take place at Park Lane. There’s no way for the 65 to be relieved (in its current form) without coming at additional cost - drivers time, vans, etc… but this is a cost that is already being absorbed with reliefs at Hetton-le-Hole from Peterlee.


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681 doesn't involve a dead run. It runs as the X81 from Hexham to Alston in the morning, and returns in the evening.

(16 Mar 2022, 8:53 pm)Rapidsnap wrote 681 doesn't involve a dead run. It runs as the X81 from Hexham to Alston in the morning, and returns in the evening.

Surely there has to be a driver change at some point though? It's just over 10 hours between both journeys and the buses doesn't seem to come back to Hexham as it interworks with the 185 during the day.

Believe it's 10 hours a max a day.

(16 Mar 2022, 9:25 pm)Storx wrote Surely there has to be a driver change at some point though? It's just over 10 hours between both journeys and the buses doesn't seem to come back to Hexham as it interworks with the 185 during the day.

Believe it's 10 hours a max a day.

The Domestic Driving Rule is 10 hours driving on a maximum of 16 hour spread.  If you have standing time between journeys, you do not have to count that towards driving time either.

(16 Mar 2022, 9:25 pm)Storx wrote Surely there has to be a driver change at some point though? It's just over 10 hours between both journeys and the buses doesn't seem to come back to Hexham as it interworks with the 185 during the day.

Believe it's 10 hours a max a day.

Bus Times would suggest the driver has an hour long break at Alston.

(16 Mar 2022, 10:39 pm)citaro5284 wrote The Domestic Driving Rule is 10 hours driving on a maximum of 16 hour spread.  If you have standing time between journeys, you do not have to count that towards driving time either.

(16 Mar 2022, 10:48 pm)Drifter60 wrote Bus Times would suggest the driver has an hour long break at Alston.

Yeah that's fair, breaks just went over my head there can't lie. Makes sense.

(16 Mar 2022, 8:53 pm)Rapidsnap wrote 681 doesn't involve a dead run. It runs as the X81 from Hexham to Alston in the morning, and returns in the evening.

It would do if it wasn’t for that feeder journey - and that’s all it is.  Rather than make it a dead run - which is what the contract is, they run it commercially in the hope that someone will get on it.  It’s a really pain when the weather is bad.

same duty same driver same vehicle all day - even longer on a Saturday with a Hexham town service clagged on the end of it to add insult to injury unless it’s changed recently.

(17 Mar 2022, 10:27 pm)xpm wrote It would do if it wasn’t for that feeder journey - and that’s all it is.  Rather than make it a dead run - which is what the contract is, they run it commercially in the hope that someone will get on it.  It’s a really pain when the weather is bad.

same duty same driver same vehicle all day - even longer on a Saturday with a Hexham town service clagged on the end of it to add insult to injury unless it’s changed recently.

The bus is now used on a 680 prior (M-F) and a 688 after (M-S) so can't see it being the same driver.

I saw a user on FB, saying that the Service 26 is moving to Percy Main Is there any merit to this?

The 434 Cambois to Linton service does a school run and I'm sure the driver parks up in Ashington Arriva Depot for his break (I've spotted it a few times when at Mcd in Ashington) when I used to work up that neck of the woods

Think it was the same driver too all week

(19 Mar 2022, 1:42 pm)Unber43 wrote I saw a user on FB, saying that the Service 26 is moving to Percy Main Is there any merit to this?

It seems unlikely as it would add quite alot of dead mileage to the route.

(19 Mar 2022, 8:07 pm)Michael wrote It seems unlikely as it would add quite alot of dead mileage to the route.

It wouldn't really. The depot is only the other side of the Tyne Tunnel from Jarrow.

(19 Mar 2022, 1:42 pm)Unber43 wrote I saw a user on FB, saying that the Service 26 is moving to Percy Main Is there any merit to this?

Someone mentioned that there's some work going over but not everything. Wasn't said what runs they are but wouldn't surprise me if it's the late evening boards that don't interwork with the 50. Jarrow is much closer to Percy Main than Washington and they'd have the Streetlite's spare from the 19 (Cramlington) / 41 which doesn't run late on.

https://bustimes.org/vehicles/40357?date=2022-03-18
https://bustimes.org/vehicles/40390?date=2022-03-18

Those boards (after 6pm for the second).

Didn't know it was Sunday already. My bus stop now apparently doesn't have a bus service.

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(23 Mar 2022, 7:39 am)MVK 500R wrote Didn't know it was Sunday already. My bus stop now apparently doesn't have a bus service.

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Bus stops in Annitsford now show 342

(19 Mar 2022, 8:20 pm)Adrian wrote It wouldn't really. The depot is only the other side of the Tyne Tunnel from Jarrow.

I could only see the 26 running out of Percy Main as a short term thing until Washington has enough staff. Otherwise you are burdening the vehicles on the 26 with the cost of Tyne Tunnel tolls, on top of the usual overheads.

(23 Mar 2022, 10:08 am)DeltaMan wrote I could only see the 26 running out of Percy Main as a short term thing until Washington has enough staff. Otherwise you are burdening the vehicles on the 26 with the cost of Tyne Tunnel tolls, on top of the usual overheads.

Toll is only £6.66 for two passages, which would be cheaper or equal to the fuel costs of running from Washington I'd imagine.

(23 Mar 2022, 3:16 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Toll is only £6.66 for two passages, which would be cheaper or equal to the fuel costs of running from Washington I'd imagine.

Do public buses even pay for the Tunnel? I don't know btw, just had a feeling they might have an exception for them.

Either way unless there's a mass timetable change Percy Main can't run the 26 all day anyway since it interworks with the 50 and there's a 24 minute wait at South Shields. The only boards that realistically they could cover are the 2 evening boards which run empty from Washington and run alone which the £3.33 (if they pay it) would be cheaper than running empty.