The 21 doesn't seem to be doing great at all at the moment...

(18 Jun 2022, 2:13 pm)Jack Gill wrote The 21 doesn't seem to be doing great at all at the moment...

Wow there is only 6 on, isn't the PVR like 14.

(18 Jun 2022, 2:31 pm)Unber43 wrote Wow there is only 6 on, isn't the PVR like 14.

It's around that yeah, can only imagine every 21 leaving Newcastle being full to the brim.

I've been waiting for the X21 at Eldon Square for about half an hour and not a single Angel has turned up in that time. At this rate the X12 may as well go back to being half-hourly between Durham and Newcastle.

I wonder what's happening to cause such major problems for the 21 today

Probably drivers using up their leave, not willing to sacrifice their days off etc. On the 16:05 x21 with wib and it's rammed because, in addition to the no show 21s, the 15:35 didn't run.

(18 Jun 2022, 3:01 pm)Jack Gill wrote I wonder what's happening to cause such major problems for the 21 today

Going off the website none of them are "planned" cancellations.

(18 Jun 2022, 3:01 pm)Jack Gill wrote I wonder what's happening to cause such major problems for the 21 today

"Operational issues" going by their Twitter
https://twitter.com/gonortheast/status/1...6814823428

(18 Jun 2022, 3:00 pm)wibblejunior wrote I've been waiting for the X21 at Eldon Square for about half an hour and not a single Angel has turned up in that time. At this rate the X12 may as well go back to being half-hourly between Durham and Newcastle.

And yet not a single 21 listed on the short notice cancellations page.

(18 Jun 2022, 3:26 pm)Adrian wrote And yet not a single 21 listed on the short notice cancellations page.

It’s been like that all week, they’re actively lying about it. 

the service has been utterly atrocious lately, doesn’t bode fantastically well for the upcoming move.

(18 Jun 2022, 3:30 pm)Ambassador wrote It’s been like that all week, they’re actively lying about it. 

the service has been utterly atrocious lately, doesn’t bode fantastically well for the upcoming move.

It's no wonder that services aren't recovering. These short-notice cancellations have been going on for what, 8+ months now? Anyone opting to give the bus a try on a day like today, probably wouldn't bother again in the future.

Apparently the likes of the 21 are being managed by 'active regulation' according to the MD, but the reality for those on the ground sounds a lot different!

https://twitter.com/MartijnGNE/status/15...9946866688

The reality is worse than a Sunday service.

(18 Jun 2022, 3:40 pm)Adrian wrote It's no wonder that services aren't recovering. These short-notice cancellations have been going on for what, 8+ months now? Anyone opting to give the bus a try on a day like today, probably wouldn't bother again in the future.

Apparently the likes of the 21 are being managed by 'active regulation' according to the MD, but the reality for those on the ground sounds a lot different!

https://twitter.com/MartijnGNE/status/15...9946866688

Even if there is “active regulation” (whatever that is) the buses on the 21 that are running will be busier and need longer running time, so will just get later and later……and then be terminated short. It’s not as if the 21 has reverted to the pre COVID timetable.

Failing to list any cancelled 21s on the “short notice cancellations” day after day does give the impression of “not telling the truth”.

if you follow GNE on Twitter and keep checking your phone you’ll see the recent tweet (from a couple of hours ago):
“Due to operational issues service 21 is currently operating to delays with significant gaps in service, we apologise for any inconvenience caused”

It seems to be back to somewhat "normal" now.

(18 Jun 2022, 3:00 pm)wibblejunior wrote I've been waiting for the X21 at Eldon Square for about half an hour and not a single Angel has turned up in that time. At this rate the X12 may as well go back to being half-hourly between Durham and Newcastle.

I'd love to know if there are any patterns in staff sickness increases at Chester and overtime avoidance vs the announcement the depot is closing.
I'd not be surprised to see some correlation.

Well I was considering getting the 21 from Gateshead to Durham tomorrow for the Father's Day rally. However now I think I'll just drive there. Another passenger lost.

Charles

(18 Jun 2022, 6:04 pm)Andreos1 wrote I'd love to know if there are any patterns in staff sickness increases at Chester and overtime avoidance vs the announcement the depot is closing.
I'd not be surprised to see some correlation.

Is it even sickness still, as oppose to a shortage of drivers? Maybe good-will is running out, much like we've seen on the railways as of late.

(18 Jun 2022, 6:36 pm)Adrian wrote Is it even sickness still, as oppose to a shortage of drivers? Maybe good-will is running out, much like we've seen on the railways as of late.

All just a hunch. But regardless, it's a huge coincidence that there's suddenly huge issues at Chester and it's all in the depot closure fall-out.

(18 Jun 2022, 6:45 pm)Andreos1 wrote All just a hunch. But regardless, it's a huge coincidence that there's suddenly huge issues at Chester and it's all in the depot closure fall-out.

I don't see the link, personally. Washington seem to be struggling really bad too, have been for some time actually, and they don't have a looming closure hanging over them. 

Same with Deptford (and I think Riverside) a couple of weeks ago. And remember, Deptford ran a Sunday service because there was a third tier football match on...

(18 Jun 2022, 8:22 pm)Adrian wrote I don't see the link, personally. Washington seem to be struggling really bad too, have been for some time actually, and they don't have a looming closure hanging over them. 

Same with Deptford (and I think Riverside) a couple of weeks ago. And remember, Deptford ran a Sunday service because there was a third tier football match on...

CLS has been fairly consistent, well the Angel has been at least throughout. 

it just seems a fairly heavy coincidence that in the weeks after a closure of the depot announcement that the flagship route and others go to pot after long periods of consistency.

They’ve pretty much abandoned the 25…sure they’ll find some resource once they aren’t paying for it.

(18 Jun 2022, 9:41 pm)Ambassador wrote CLS has been fairly consistent, well the Angel has been at least throughout. 

it just seems a fairly heavy coincidence that in the weeks after a closure of the depot announcement that the flagship route and others go to pot after long periods of consistency.

They’ve pretty much abandoned the 25…sure they’ll find some resource once they aren’t paying for it.

Yeah, I agree. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I can't see whichever local authority is paying for it letting it slide. The worry is that some of the more frequent routes, such as the 4/X1, may start to suffer more as a result, as they can play lip service to any complaints about non-running of their commercial stuff.

I'm not sure if it's since changed, but there's a copy of Nexus' service performance and monitoring policy here: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/cy/reques...sthrough=1

(18 Jun 2022, 9:50 pm)Adrian wrote Yeah, I agree. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I can't see whichever local authority is paying for it letting it slide. The worry is that some of the more frequent routes, such as the 4/X1, may start to suffer more as a result, as they can play lip service to any complaints about non-running of their commercial stuff.

I'm not sure if it's since changed, but there's a copy of Nexus' service performance and monitoring policy here: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/cy/reques...sthrough=1

I’m astounded such a document exists! I’d guess it’s a token gesture and they neither have the manpower or willpower to enforce it

GNE Sunday's service cancellations are starting to appear now.

After the discussion earlier today, I was looking at the 21/X21. Ignoring the nonsense about journeys starting later in the route, it appears around 30% of combined journeys out of Newcastle are cancelled., leaving around 40 minute gaps at various points of the days.

So much for that being mitigated by 'active regulation'... #shambles

Worryingly, wibblejunior and I need to be in Chester-le-Street mid morning on Wednesday (it's very early for him ) and I'm thinking we should give ourselves an hour to get there, rather than the usual half hour. Or persuade husband to drop us off, if his work obligations allow.

---

And those cancellations, if you've been into Newcastle and want to get back to Durham and beyond, after lunch, mean that you have an x21 at 2-ish, a 21 just after 3 and the next full length x21 is at 4-ish. That is pretty poor.

(18 Jun 2022, 10:46 pm)Adrian wrote GNE Sunday's service cancellations are starting to appear now.

After the discussion earlier today, I was looking at the 21/X21. Ignoring the nonsense about journeys starting later in the route, it appears around 30% of combined journeys out of Newcastle are cancelled., leaving around 40 minute gaps at various points of the days.

So much for that being mitigated by 'active regulation'... #shambles

MG’s legacy in play here. Also noticed yet again, you have to scroll down to see the cancellations. 

on a serious note if I was nexus or DCC I’d be looking at this list and thinking, they can’t even fulfil their own basic routes, why the hell would we give them a contract? 

Once traditional holidays and Riverside moves kick in you can only see this getting worse.

(18 Jun 2022, 11:19 pm)Ambassador wrote MG’s legacy in play here. Also noticed yet again, you have to scroll down to see the cancellations. 

on a serious note if I was nexus or DCC I’d be looking at this list and thinking, they can’t even fulfil their own basic routes, why the hell would we give them a contract? 

Once traditional holidays and Riverside moves kick in you can only see this getting worse.

Well, look at Arriva, Stagecoach and GCT (granted they've been quite okay recently) however they don't publish these lists meaning we don't know how many services are cancelled but for both it is probably  similar to GNE, so why should GNE be penalised for telling the public which services are cancelled when other companies are informing people 1 hour to no advanced notice.

If the past few days are anything to go by, the published cancellations are just a fraction of the overall missing or curtailed services, though. You shrug it off, if 10 or 20% of a frequent service is missing, even if it is annoying. If it's 50% and you're finding yourself with periods when only 20% are turning up, even the best social media and website communication doesn't make it feel OK. If you lived in Spenny, would you fancy taking the bus to Newcastle for lunch, tomorrow, knowing that if you missed the 2-ish X21, you would have a 2 hour wait for the next? (OK, today)

(18 Jun 2022, 11:26 pm)Unber43 wrote Well, look at Arriva, Stagecoach and GCT (granted they've been quite okay recently) however they don't publish these lists meaning we don't know how many services are cancelled but for both it is probably  similar to GNE, so why should GNE be penalised for telling the public which services are cancelled when other companies are informing people 1 hour to no advanced notice.

When you get punished, the lesson you learn isn't don't do whatever you did wrong - it's don't get caught.

Think it's a similar logic here.

If a bus doesn't turn up, only the people who were going to get that bus will know (as long as it isn't a frequent cancellation, they're hardly going to be writing to the council about it), but what GNE's doing is telling everyone about every cancellation. It's the equivalent of a shoplifter putting all the items they stole in their window at home, with a big sign saying "I stole these"

(19 Jun 2022, 10:02 am)F114TML wrote When you get punished, the lesson you learn isn't don't do whatever you did wrong - it's don't get caught.

Think it's a similar logic here.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk...te_v21.pdf

There's specific advice about covid 19 and bus services.
Not sure on specifics relating to BSOG and missing mileage mind.

(19 Jun 2022, 10:17 am)Andreos1 wrote https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk...te_v21.pdf

There's specific advice about covid 19 and bus services.
Not sure on specifics relating to BSOG and missing mileage mind.

BSOG is calculated per km operated I believe, unless that has changed?

Interestingly though, the Bus Recovery Grant (BRG), which is due to end in October, has an eligibility requirement of running 90% or more of your mileage compared to pre-COVID levels. Taking into account September 2021's 'Getting buses fit for the future' programme, and then the upcoming axe-wielding in July, I wonder if GNE will still be eligible for the remaining 3 months of that?

(fixed your link btw!)