(20 Aug 2022, 5:27 am)Dan wrote Unlike CBSSG, the support from BRG wasn’t enough to bring Go North East to breakeven point - they’re still a loss-making business.

The cuts from Go North East would have happened regardless of BRG being there or not.

If I was a betting man, I’d say that cuts from other operators in this region will still go ahead at the end of October too - especially Arriva for any cuts linked to Jesmond, now the depot itself is linked to those cuts. The overheads saving from closing a depot is likely to be a lot higher than the revenue income from BRG.


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Time will tell I suppose but it certainly does appear at the moment, GNE bolted a bit early less than a year ago these service changes were implement the key benefits as follows (taken from GNE’s website): rev

• East Gateshead frequency revisions, meaning improved combined frequencies on common corridors with services running every 7/8 minutes between Newcastle and Deckham, Leam Lane and Heworth, and on Old Durham Road.
  
• New evening and Sunday service 8. 
  
• Service 265 increased from every 60 minutes to every 30 minutes providing much improved east-west movement across Durham, and new late evening and Sunday journeys. 
  
• Service X1 extended to Dalton Park and Peterlee, providing new connections. 
  
• Service 2A diverted via Leechmere to improve access to Asda. 
  
• Reinstatement of cross Jarrow on 26, giving more frequent connections from Hebburn to South Tyneside Hospital. 
  
• Introduction of new cross-Durham links by extending service 21 to Brandon, giving direct connections to key sites such as University Hospital, New College and Arnison Centre. 
  
• Extension of service 47 to Consett gives a new Sunday service on V9 and introduces direct service to Metrocentre from Medomsley and Leadgate. 
  
• Improved frequency of service to Gateshead Quays throughout the day and week with service 53/54, including more regular evening service. 
  
• Simpler, easier to understand Washington local network.
  

A year on, many of those changes have been reversed or cut back - a couple remain in place (or have continued at the expense of other services) but it’s hardly a shining light. Yes the company has to make money but it’s a fine line as were already at the point when buses aren’t taking people were they need to be.

(19 Aug 2022, 7:35 pm)N1cholas wrote I admire the governments latest funding but if the driver shortage does not improve and there is not the drivers to operate services without cancellations more service cuts will happen

The funding is of course welcome, but again it is putting a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. This problem isn't going to go away when this lot of funding runs out, we'll be back to square one again lobbying for it to continue and so on. 

The system is completely broken. The bus recovery grant isn't protecting services, because those services are getting cut regardless, so it's simply slowing down the rate of cuts. Might as well be urinating in the direction of the wind.

The driving shortage is of course a massive concern. Whilst I think there's a big question mark over FTE shortage vs long-term sick, operators do still appear to be struggling to attract people into the industry. It's not surprising either, when the rates of pay really aren't competitive with similar jobs. Amazon van drivers are apparently on £13-£17, for what is likely a much easier life with better shifts. 

There'll of course be the argument that operators can't afford to pay decent wages and so on, but one of the large operators is paying their CEO around £8,000 a month in relocation allowances, so the money is there when they want to spend it...

(20 Aug 2022, 8:47 am)Drifter60 wrote Time will tell I suppose but it certainly does appear at the moment, GNE bolted a bit early less than a year ago these service changes were implement the key benefits as follows (taken from GNE’s website): rev

• East Gateshead frequency revisions, meaning improved combined frequencies on common corridors with services running every 7/8 minutes between Newcastle and Deckham, Leam Lane and Heworth, and on Old Durham Road.
  
• New evening and Sunday service 8. 
  
• Service 265 increased from every 60 minutes to every 30 minutes providing much improved east-west movement across Durham, and new late evening and Sunday journeys. 
  
• Service X1 extended to Dalton Park and Peterlee, providing new connections. 
  
• Service 2A diverted via Leechmere to improve access to Asda. 
  
• Reinstatement of cross Jarrow on 26, giving more frequent connections from Hebburn to South Tyneside Hospital. 
  
• Introduction of new cross-Durham links by extending service 21 to Brandon, giving direct connections to key sites such as University Hospital, New College and Arnison Centre. 
  
• Extension of service 47 to Consett gives a new Sunday service on V9 and introduces direct service to Metrocentre from Medomsley and Leadgate. 
  
• Improved frequency of service to Gateshead Quays throughout the day and week with service 53/54, including more regular evening service. 
  
• Simpler, easier to understand Washington local network.
  

A year on, many of those changes have been reversed or cut back - a couple remain in place (or have continued at the expense of other services) but it’s hardly a shining light. Yes the company has to make money but it’s a fine line as were already at the point when buses aren’t taking people were they need to be.

I'll not go over old arguments, but it makes you wonder where the business plan was to extend some of those routes (e.g. X1 and 8) in the first place. 

The last 8 Chester-le-Street to Washington and Sunderland was 21.49 pre-changes... it's now at 16.55!

(20 Aug 2022, 7:40 pm)Adrian wrote The funding is of course welcome, but again it is putting a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. This problem isn't going to go away when this lot of funding runs out, we'll be back to square one again lobbying for it to continue and so on. 

The system is completely broken. The bus recovery grant isn't protecting services, because those services are getting cut regardless, so it's simply slowing down the rate of cuts. Might as well be urinating in the direction of the wind.

The driving shortage is of course a massive concern. Whilst I think there's a big question mark over FTE shortage vs long-term sick, operators do still appear to be struggling to attract people into the industry. It's not surprising either, when the rates of pay really aren't competitive with similar jobs. Amazon van drivers are apparently on £13-£17, for what is likely a much easier life with better shifts. 

There'll of course be the argument that operators can't afford to pay decent wages and so on, but one of the large operators is paying their CEO around £8,000 a month in relocation allowances, so the money is there when they want to spend it...


I'll not go over old arguments, but it makes you wonder where the business plan was to extend some of those routes (e.g. X1 and 8) in the first place. 

The last 8 Chester-le-Street to Washington and Sunderland was 21.49 pre-changes... it's now at 16.55!

16:55, what about people who finish at 5

(20 Aug 2022, 8:56 pm)Unber43 wrote 16:55, what about people who finish at 5

Those to Washington can lose the will to live on the 50 and then have a trip on the 4. Those to that side of the water in Sunderland can do the same to Concord, then jump on the 56. 

Not great!

(20 Aug 2022, 7:40 pm)Adrian wrote The last 8 Chester-le-Street to Washington and Sunderland was 21.49 pre-changes... it's now at 16.55!

Soon to be 16:25.

I don't get why they don't split the 8 in 2 it's clearly not working.

Stanley -> Washington
and
Washington -> Sunderland

and work with Nexus to get arid of some of the local services in Washington, 82 possibly bolted on the Washington -> Sunderland and then something else on the other side, not sure what but I'm sure there's some area of Washington or take some extremely slow route from CLS to Washington to speed up the 50 which I agree is too slow now.

No-one arguably loses anything as there's nothing between Washington and Sunderland from CLS and beyond that way who'd use the 78 to Sunderland anyway.

The big issue for me is that in the last, cash has been squandered. We can accept public transport will never make a profit but when money has been given out, I don’t trust it will be spent well.

Can you look at any of our leaders, companies, transport bodies and point to one positive thing they’ve done in recent memory to support public transport outside of grandstanding and Willy waving? One point where they haven’t squandered money. All the successful transport projects of recent years have been centrally planned and funded (A1, A19) Even the metro extension to Sunderland has been a disaster

Our local leaders et all are utterly insipid and if I’m a very senior civil servant under pressure to make minimal funding available…Gannon, Kemp and Hughes are at the very very very bottom of my list.

(20 Aug 2022, 9:13 pm)Ambassador wrote Even the metro extension to Sunderland has been a disaster

How?

(21 Aug 2022, 9:21 am)F114TML wrote How?

It runs at a huge huge loss, hasn’t grown passenger numbers above what Northern had with a better service and caused the frequency elsewhere to drop (hence the need for the new metro flow project)

I shall dig out the FOI figures that were bouncing around last year

(21 Aug 2022, 10:56 am)Ambassador wrote It runs at a huge huge loss, hasn’t grown passenger numbers above what Northern had with a better service and caused the frequency elsewhere to drop (hence the need for the new metro flow project)

I shall dig out the FOI figures that were bouncing around last year

Not to mention it's crippled any easy changes on the Durham Coast Line because of it being wired at an awkward electrical rate and it's got all the paths.

Arguably some of the Metro trains running to South Hylton carting around fresh air beyond Park Lane would be better running towards Middlesbrough / Seaham with an additional stops around Hendon, Grangetown or Hendon.

Plus the trains are just the wrong spec, National Rail trains would be much better such as the Wharfdale / Airedale lines in Leeds / Bradford with Class 333's on.

(21 Aug 2022, 10:56 am)Ambassador wrote It runs at a huge huge loss, hasn’t grown passenger numbers above what Northern had with a better service and caused the frequency elsewhere to drop (hence the need for the new metro flow project)

I shall dig out the FOI figures that were bouncing around last year

Looking at the annual report for the year prior to COVID, Metro was drawing 75% of the operation cost back in income. So the subsidy is less than what most heavy rail passenger services rely on.

If we've seen the same FOI figures, then I'd say the total flow of passengers compares well to similar areas on the network.

(04 Apr 2022, 3:57 pm)Adrian wrote "Tobyn Hughes, Managing Director, Transport North East, said: “This announcement is great news for the region. The government has clearly recognised how important bus and Metro services are to the North East."

Really?  We've been given around 20% of what we stated is required, yet Tobyn is still celebrating it as some great recognition of the North East. It's no wonder we politically struggle to get transport investment in the region, when we're always asking for a golden ticket, but happy to take a kick up the backside instead.

"This has been recognised by a funding award of £163.5 million over three years. This breaks down as £73,758,353 capital to prioritise buses on busy routes, and £89,762,819 revenue to support improved fares and services for local people – one of the highest allocations in the country."

The original split in the plan was -
£495.6 million of this funding is capital, to fund new bus priority infrastructure, waiting facilities, new buses, and new ITS equipment. (61.6%)
£123.6 million of this funding is revenue support, to subsidise the continuation of existing services in light of Covid-related financial shortfalls. (15.4%)
£184.7 million of this funding is revenue support to support the introduction of lower fares and expanded route networks (23.0%)

With the split Transport North East are confirming today, that's around 45% on infrastructure (such as bus priority) and 55% on subsidising bus services, with the aim of improving the networks and delivering lower fares. Given that is over three years, I'm not convinced the money will go very far at all...

What is actually happening with all of this money, has their been any plans annouced?

(05 Sep 2022, 8:52 pm)Unber43 wrote What is actually happening with all of this money, has their been any plans annouced?

They'll be drawing up a draft Enhanced Partnership plan based on the funding award. Likely that the DfT will have to then approve it.

There's a Joint Transport Committee at Gateshead Civic next Tuesday afternoon, so the papers for that should be out tomorrow and we'll see if there's anything on the agenda. Also worth noting that these meetings can be attended by anyone.

(05 Sep 2022, 9:00 pm)Adrian wrote They'll be drawing up a draft Enhanced Partnership plan based on the funding award. Likely that the DfT will have to then approve it.

There's a Joint Transport Committee at Gateshead Civic next Tuesday afternoon, so the papers for that should be out tomorrow and we'll see if there's anything on the agenda. Also worth noting that these meetings can be attended by anyone.

Thanks for the info!

BSIP, probably won't happen anymore, Jeremy Hunt wants all departments to cut back spending and this will probably be the one to go!

Not sure whether it would fit in here, however there should be a dedicated bus lane from Metrocentre to Newcastle, Gateshead to Newcastle, Coast Road to Newcastle, Regent Centre to Newcastle.

It would massively keep delays down.

(09 Nov 2022, 6:05 pm)Unber43 wrote Not sure whether it would fit in here, however there should be a dedicated bus lane from Metrocentre to Newcastle, Gateshead to Newcastle, Coast Road to Newcastle, Regent Centre to Newcastle.

It would massively keep delays down.

Unless your planning to spend millions to do it then it's impossible as it is including a new bridge over the Tyne. Causing congestion intentionally to prioritise buses is not the right move as it just causes delays to buses elsewhere when cars rat run and increases pollution so is counter productive.

Apart from the Tyne Bridge itself there's already a bus lane give or take from Gateshead to Newcastle.

Update on the BSIP/EP scheme here: https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/up...1.2022.pdf
Pages 15 to 132, for those in need of some light reading.

(09 Nov 2022, 6:05 pm)Unber43 wrote Not sure whether it would fit in here, however there should be a dedicated bus lane from Metrocentre to Newcastle, Gateshead to Newcastle, Coast Road to Newcastle, Regent Centre to Newcastle.

It would massively keep delays down.

Arnt NCC doing this??? 37.385% of that route already has a bus lane, its just fitting the other other bits from the gosforth hotal to the start of the town moor then from the blues house rounda about to the slip road for the city cenre.  The latter being the most difficalth with the bus stops being on the left but idealy the bus lane would be the outside lane

An announcement from DCC:

https://www.durham.gov.uk/article/28927/...passengers

A report to the forthcoming Cabinet meeting sets out how in County Durham the BSIP includes plans for bus priority infrastructure at nine locations, to improve journey times and reliability. An initial three of these will be progressed at Coundon Gate roundabout; Durham Road/Whitworth Road in Spennymoor; and the B2688/A167 at Croxdale.

Hopefully these would help the X21, aswell I think the roundabout from the A690/Gilesgate would need some bus priority features. 

Also include in the plan are improvements to bus stations at Consett, Peterlee & Stanley including new CCTV and enhanced lighting, in the interests of saftey and accessibility. Two Hundred and fifty replacement bus shelters are also banned across the county

Must needed improvement, I would say a new one for Consett if the services weren't so badly cut since Xlines StreetDecks/E400s were introduced. 

BSIP would allow the introduction of good value fares including a £1 single fare and £3 regionwide multi-modal day ticket for under 22s. A County
Durham multi-operator day ticket would be available for £4; with a two zone multi-modal ticket for £6.50; and a regionwide multi-modal ticket for £6.80.

I feel like this is something which just County Durham won't work, it must be a joined operation with Tyne & Wear, Teeside and possibly Northumberland, as that would make it even better for passengers especially services which start in County Durham and go through Tyne & Wear to finish in County Durham, and services which start in county durham but end in Tyne and Wear as you could get the X21 from West Aukland to Newcastle for £1, however on the way back pay £2 or smth like that so I feel like there must be some cooperation especially with T&W & DCC. 

The report sets out details of improvements to bus services across the county, including increased Sunday services, replacement of commercial routes deemed no longer viable by operators, and routes that are designed to make it easier for people to get to work. Furthermore we are looking to enhance capacity of our Link2 demand response service.

This is something which DCC should do independent, possibly put out surveys or go around houses and ask them about what buses services they like, West Auckland has appalling service to newcastle which needs to be changed. I feel like this has great potential especially with areas such as Consent & Peterlee which have had services slashed, like Dalton Park & Seaham too.

I don't think many people in West Auckland are wanting to travel to Newcastle very often unless they have family links. The bigger issue is for people in villages wanting to get to work in a minimum wage job, not necessarily 9-5 weekdays and people in the same areas wanting a decent sized supermarket without spending over 10% of their food budget on bus fare.

(12 Jan 2023, 10:55 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I don't think many people in West Auckland are wanting to travel to Newcastle very often unless they have family links. The bigger issue is for people in villages wanting to get to work in a minimum wage job, not necessarily 9-5 weekdays and people in the same areas wanting a decent sized supermarket without spending over 10% of their food budget on bus fare.

West Auckland has a fantastic bus service to Newcastle imo, it really doesn't need one at all as there's very little connection between the two places. They should count their selves lucky they have one at all especially when most the Consett area villages have an hourly bus service and some nothing at all on evenings and Sunday's. Hourly bus services are a complete waste of time and I don't care what anyone says unless it's places like Rothbury which are in the sticks so it's unrealistic to expect more.

(12 Jan 2023, 11:20 pm)Storx wrote West Auckland has a fantastic bus service to Newcastle imo, it really doesn't need one at all as there's very little connection between the two places. They should count their selves lucky they have one at all especially when most the Consett area villages have an hourly bus service and some nothing at all on evenings and Sunday's. Hourly bus services are a complete waste of time and I don't care what anyone says unless it's places like Rothbury which are in the sticks so it's unrealistic to expect more.

Not to mention the four buses an hour from Arriva that also serve Bishop Auckland & Durham (with the 85 & 104 running to Bishop on a less frequent basis as well), West Auckland has however lost links to other towns & villages over the years such as Crook and the link to Darlington is now only one trip on a morning and back in the evening on weekdays (service 84A).

Stop complaining about the West Auckland - Newcastle link, they'll take it away from me. It's all I have left!

Although i do agree it's largely pointless, when I get on at Tindale there are often people on who stay most of the journey. Likewise, there are definitely other people who get on at Newcastle/Gateshead who go as far as Woodhouse or Tindale.

£12m rescue package to save at-risk North East bus services amid threat of major cuts
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...s-27163447

"Council leaders have agreed to spend up to £12.2m to protect services at risk of being slashed, as they brace for private bus operators to wield the axe in the coming months. However, that cash comes from a pot of Bus Service Improvement Plan (BSIP) funding that the Government had originally awarded the North East to make wide-ranging upgrades across the region such as cutting fare prices and renovating stations – not simply to avoid existing routes being slashed."

Didn't take long for that begging bowl to come out, once the BSIP allocation became fair game...

(21 Jun 2023, 8:41 am)Adrian wrote £12m rescue package to save at-risk North East bus services amid threat of major cuts
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...s-27163447

"Council leaders have agreed to spend up to £12.2m to protect services at risk of being slashed, as they brace for private bus operators to wield the axe in the coming months. However, that cash comes from a pot of Bus Service Improvement Plan (BSIP) funding that the Government had originally awarded the North East to make wide-ranging upgrades across the region such as cutting fare prices and renovating stations – not simply to avoid existing routes being slashed."

Didn't take long for that begging bowl to come out, once the BSIP allocation became fair game...

Embarrassing, you should never spend investment money on day to day running. It's the quickest way to go bust (obviously won't happen but in general). What happens when the BSIP money runs out... It's just dragging the issue back.

(21 Jun 2023, 8:49 am)Storx wrote Embarrassing, you should never spend investment money on day to day running. It's the quickest way to go bust (obviously won't happen but in general). What happens when the BSIP money runs out... It's just dragging the issue back.

Yep, and this was the 'less than 20% of what we asked for' allocation, that we should have apparently been rejoicing!

Wonder what happens next time traffic congestion comes up as a barrier to good buses services? Sorry, Guv', spent all the ringfenced cash on running your businesses!

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(21 Jun 2023, 8:41 am)Adrian wrote £12m rescue package to save at-risk North East bus services amid threat of major cuts
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...s-27163447

"Council leaders have agreed to spend up to £12.2m to protect services at risk of being slashed, as they brace for private bus operators to wield the axe in the coming months. However, that cash comes from a pot of Bus Service Improvement Plan (BSIP) funding that the Government had originally awarded the North East to make wide-ranging upgrades across the region such as cutting fare prices and renovating stations – not simply to avoid existing routes being slashed."

Didn't take long for that begging bowl to come out, once the BSIP allocation became fair game...

An absolute farce. 

How much more money is going to be chucked at the failing operators who take absolutely no responsibility for anything they do or fail to achieve?

(21 Jun 2023, 8:57 am)Adrian wrote Yep, and this was the 'less than 20% of what we asked for' allocation, that we should have apparently been rejoicing!

Wonder what happens next time traffic congestion comes up as a barrier to good buses services? Sorry, Guv', spent all the ringfenced cash on running your businesses!

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Aye totally agreed I'm not sure I agree with the shouting about it in the news either. 

If I was an operator it gives me the option to just bin routes off now. Why bother paying for a loss making service if I can just throw in the towel and have a very good chance of winning the thing back anyway if I had it so low that I make 10p. It's arguably better than a loss. 

The passengers would never know otherwise see Stagecoach with the 18, 32/32A, 35 and 62 extension. Heck they promoted the last as a good thing.

(21 Jun 2023, 11:03 am)Andreos1 wrote An absolute farce. 

How much more money is going to be chucked at the failing operators who take absolutely no responsibility for anything they do or fail to achieve?

Until this pot of money is bled dry, I reckon. Despite the purpose supposedly being to *improve* services in the region.

It'd be interesting to see together, all these various sources of public money and how much from each source has been given to bus operators in this region.

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