Flooding in East Cleveland prevented this service going passed Saltburn. Waited for ages in Runswick Bay( thank god for the pub and my Mrs). No Twitter announcements from Arriva, or announcements from their website.

Yes they were unable to access Saltburn, Carlin How, Loftus & Easington due to flooding for most of the day. They were diverting between Saltburn Cricket Club & Mickleby via Skelton, Lingdale and the A171. The 5s were terminating at Brotton for most of the day too. Don’t know how Stagecoach’s 1/2 got on but I imagine they didn’t fair too well either!


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(05 Aug 2023, 6:06 pm)tyresmoke wrote Yes they were unable to access Saltburn, Carlin How, Loftus & Easington due to flooding for most of the day. They were diverting between Saltburn Cricket Club & Mickleby via Skelton, Lingdale and the A171. The 5s were terminating at Brotton for most of the day too. Don’t know how Stagecoach’s 1/2 got on but I imagine they didn’t fair too well either!


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The barman in Runswick showed me footage  of flooding in  Lofus. After thst I realised, I wasn’t going to Sandsend. Walked where I had too, drank where I could. :) . Love Runswick.

(05 Aug 2023, 6:33 pm)Economic505 wrote The barman in Runswick showed me footage  of flooding in  Lofus. After thst I realised, I wasn’t going to Sandsend. Walked where I had too, drank where I could.  . Love Runswick.

Awful comms. 
The road in Loftus just South of the market place has lifted due to the water too.

(05 Aug 2023, 7:20 pm)Andreos1 wrote Awful comms. 
The road in Loftus just South of the market place has lifted due to the water too.

Yes yet another set of temporary lights in Loftus which I think makes 3 sets in half a mile now [emoji108]


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(05 Aug 2023, 7:22 pm)tyresmoke wrote Yes yet another set of temporary lights in Loftus which I think makes 3 sets in half a mile now [emoji108]


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They were back down to 1. Just the big set at the cross-roads.
This will be the 2nd set unfortunately. For now anyway.

(05 Aug 2023, 6:01 pm)Economic505 wrote Flooding in East Cleveland prevented this service going passed Saltburn. Waited for ages in Runswick Bay( thank god for the pub and my Mrs). No Twitter announcements from Arriva, or announcements from their website.

Yes, the rain was extremely heavy for a couple of hours. As mentioned, the X4's were detouring over the moors [quite ok by all reports] and the 5's were turning around on the roundabout just before Carlin How. The Stagecoach 1 and 2 seemed to be using the longer 'moors' route. Photos on social media looked really bad. Arriva's app still showed the buses were due here in Brotton.

The bad weather has gone, but the X4 is still struggling with keeping to time with traffic issues in Loftus and Whitby, and very heavy loadings. I saw two X4's running together yesterday through Staithes, and they're often very late.

Just thinking for next year, would an extra short version of the X4 at the Whitby end help? Or a reworking of a town service to go as far as the caravan park and Sandsend take some pressure off? Both unlikely, because of the extra resources needed or the town service would not be able to turn in Sandsend so would have to go further than ideal.

I'm not sure of an easy answer, except things may ease once the school holidays are over.

(11 Aug 2023, 8:04 am)Storx wrote I know it's generally bad practice, but I'd be tempted to delibrately split the registration at Loftus so the destination is

X4: Loftus for Whitby
or
X4: Loftus for Middlesbrough

I can guarantee there's numerous people who get on at both ends because it says Middlesbrough / Whitby when it's not the quickest route as it's more frequent rather than using the X93/X94 who don't know any better.

It is already split at Loftus

(11 Aug 2023, 8:06 am)Kuyoyo wrote It is already split at Loftus

Sorry, you beat me. Just deleted it, just remembered afterwards.

Yes, there are still those who get on knowing it takes longer to go the full route than the X93/X94 - I was on the bus with a group who'd been out drinking in Whitby and one of them did realise the X93 was in the stand and would get to Boro quicker, but they were on board and past caring! Also, the X93 was packed out.

That service is given extra resources during the peak season, but the X4 isn't (except on Sundays). Not an easy one to do much about though.

Would it not be better to get rid of the Loftus to Redcar section and go back to just terminating at Loftus instead.

(11 Aug 2023, 5:08 pm)col87 wrote Would it not be better to get rid of the Loftus to Redcar section and go back to just terminating at Loftus instead.

Not really, it's well used by people coming to and from the Whitby end by people boarding before Loftus. In a way it's makes a nice change to have a service that has issues because it is so heavily used!

Once the summer ends it will get better anyway, but I can't help thinking that if they did something with the Whitby town services next year it could ease the pressure.

Years ago there were several Whitby town routes, but whilst tourism has increased massively and the X93's and X4 (256,X56,5 coast route before that) have had frequency increases, the town routes have been cut back. Surely there's potential improvements to be made there.

(12 Aug 2023, 8:12 am)tvd wrote Not really, it's well used by people coming to and from the Whitby end by people boarding before Loftus.  In a way it's makes a nice change to have a service that has issues because it is so heavily used!

Once the summer ends it will get better anyway, but I can't help thinking that if they did something with the Whitby town services next year it could ease the pressure.

Years ago there were several Whitby town routes, but whilst tourism has increased massively and the X93's and X4 (256,X56,5 coast route before that) have had frequency increases, the town routes have been cut back.  Surely there's potential improvements to be made there.

Wonder if there could ever be a scope for extending the X94 through instead and having a 30 minute service through to Middlesbrough but at the cost of the 5A.

So you'd end up with some like the below:


5: Middlesbrough to Easington: Every 30 Minutes
5A: Middlesbrough to Nunthorpe Roundabout: Every 30 Minutes
---
5/5A: Every 15 Minutes, Middlesbrough to Nunthorpe Roundabout, potential scope to send the 5A elsewhere instead from Ormseby rather than the A171.

Summer Months:
X93: Middlesbrough to Scarborough additionally serving Lingdale to replace 5A: Hourly
X94: Middlesbrough to Scarborough via Sandsend: Hourly

Winter Months:
X92: Middlesbrough to Guisborough: Hourly
X93: Middlesbrough to Scarborough via Lingdale: Hourly

5/X92/X93: Every 15 Minutes: Middlesbrough to Guisborough.

Guisborough probably deserves a 30 minute express service, and if you ran the X93/X94 in front of the X4's it could massively help with the problems along there and people on the 'wrong' bus and open up Sandsend from Middlesbrough. The 15/15/30 timetable currently on the 5/5A is completely stupid aswell.

Feel like the the X4 needs a longer bus.
Recently had a trip down to Derbyshire.
Operator versa were perfect on hills and on the longer routes. Would be a great investment

(12 Aug 2023, 8:48 am)Storx wrote The 15/15/30 timetable currently on the 5/5A is completely stupid aswell.

I guess Arriva decided that whilst three buses per hour was justified, the frequency of the 5 beyond Guisborough was more important than Cargo Fleet Lane?

(12 Aug 2023, 9:35 am)RobinHood wrote I guess Arriva decided that whilst three buses per hour was justified, the frequency of the 5 beyond Guisborough was more important than Cargo Fleet Lane?

They’re supposed to be combine with the X93 from Guisborough to provide an every 15 mins frequency. Which is great if you live near an X93 stop, but if you don’t…


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(12 Aug 2023, 1:01 pm)tyresmoke wrote They’re supposed to be combine with the X93 from Guisborough to provide an every 15 mins frequency. Which is great if you live near an X93 stop, but if you don’t…


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Hopeless ain't it.

The 5, 5A, 8 and 9 all need looked at imo. I'm not going to try and suggest what's done with them but they badly need to get to the 3 corridors (Ormseby Road, Cargo Fleet Lane and Greenway) to the same frequency and try and combine them together as one core corridor between Middlesborough / North Ormseby / Pallister Park.

They all all jump on top of each other, buses running at the same time doing the same corridor then gaps. It's a right mess.

Some horrid timetabling below for example:


4.28, 4.31, 4.32, 4.46 in particular is just a waste of resources.

(12 Aug 2023, 2:58 pm)Storx wrote Hopeless ain't it.

The 5, 5A, 8 and 9 all need looked at imo. I'm not going to try and suggest what's done with them but they badly need to get to the 3 corridors (Ormseby Road, Cargo Fleet Lane and Greenway) to the same frequency and try and combine them together as one core corridor between Middlesborough / North Ormseby / Pallister Park.

They all all jump on top of each other, buses running at the same time doing the same corridor then gaps. It's a right mess.

Some horrid timetabling below for example:


4.28, 4.31, 4.32, 4.46 in particular is just a waste of resources.

The Saturday timetable isn't a great example, as the 8 is a lower frequency but the 9 is the usual 20 minutes. I'm sure the 8/9 are at least co-ordinated Monday to Friday between Middlesbrough and Morrisons 5/10/5 headway.

The frequencies of all the individual services is precisely correlated to the demand in each, not the common frequency. For example, the 8 is much stronger than the 9, which is why it has double the number of buses per hour for most of the week.

The X4 could be so much better but where to start? Use the 'better' buses. Pulsars are usually good, don't use the Temsas. Save a few minutes by not going through Ellerby. There's no lee-way on the timetable- 5 minutes in Boro and 6 minutes in Whitby is not enough. The buses get held up through the coastal towns of Redcar and Saltburn and then Sandsend and Whitby in the busier times. Could an extra bus be added from Whitby in the middle of the day- say between 12 noon and 4pm? Since the timetable changes the 5 and X4 are timed to run together between Brotton and Loftus - although in practice in never happens. Could one of the 5's run to Whitby leaving on of the X4's terminating at Easington?

(12 Aug 2023, 4:58 pm)RobinHood wrote The Saturday timetable isn't a great example, as the 8 is a lower frequency but the 9 is the usual 20 minutes. I'm sure the 8/9 are at least co-ordinated Monday to Friday between Middlesbrough and Morrisons 5/10/5 headway.

The frequencies of all the individual services is precisely correlated to the demand in each, not the common frequency. For example, the 8 is much stronger than the 9, which is why it has double the number of buses per hour for most of the week.

Aye you're right, my fault for forgetting that there's reduced timetables on Saturday's. Didn't realise there were any in Teesside tbh.