(16 Sep 2023, 10:15 am)Fleetmaster wrote I drive all over County Durham and Northumberland for work, and have been quite surprised at how effective a bland corporate livery is in making sure I have absolutely no interest in where these buses go anymore.

I just see numbers, and they don't mean anything, not least since it is not a given that the number 52 you saw in one remote village is the same one you saw a few towns over. The uniformity is even worse given there are now only a few vehicle types in use, the length and frequency much less the traffic type being no determinant to what turns up in in bland red. Not that the paying punter should really have to become a bus nerd to be able to comprehend the utility of the network.

The real tragedy is, given how many of GNEs routes actually travel vast distances while still somehow finding the time to call in at assorted nooks and crannies, it is exactly where route branding would make sense.

London uses route branding too btw, when it is trying to grow new markets and transform travel habits. That was of course the whole damn point of branding the GNE fleet in the first place.

Does it really matter though? Personally I think is one of the big problems as they've ignored the real problems.

Realistically you're going to ever use buses from a specific bus stop to go to a hub somewhere and change, very few people are going to change more than once due to the time etc.

So what buses exist in Hexham in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant, what people need to know it the buses that come from their local stop and that's about it and it's missing in most places where your directed to 3 different operator websites, if at all, pricing is missing and so on. Branded buses won't ever change that as 'Washington' could be anywhere for example. The market for every bus is effectively tiny.

What it does cause though is major allocation headaches, with buses subsituted and since you've now trained people to look for green buses rather than big 21 on the front, major confusing when you end up with things all over the place like at Riverside lately. Not to mention there's no scope to swap buses around ie. you could get 20 E400's at Riverside and one day run them on for a easy day on the 10, then the next on the X10 and so on and not kill buses off.

All branding should be creating good network maps, apps so you can find out what buses you need and where to get on, good information at bus stops and bus stations and so on which is all missing in the main currently.

(16 Sep 2023, 10:15 am)Fleetmaster wrote I drive all over County Durham and Northumberland for work, and have been quite surprised at how effective a bland corporate livery is in making sure I have absolutely no interest in where these buses go anymore.

I just see numbers, and they don't mean anything, not least since it is not a given that the number 52 you saw in one remote village is the same one you saw a few towns over. The uniformity is even worse given there are now only a few vehicle types in use, the length and frequency much less the traffic type being no determinant to what turns up in in bland red. Not that the paying punter should really have to become a bus nerd to be able to comprehend the utility of the network.

The real tragedy is, given how many of GNEs routes actually travel vast distances while still somehow finding the time to call in at assorted nooks and crannies, it is exactly where route branding would make sense.

London uses route branding too btw, when it is trying to grow new markets and transform travel habits. That was of course the whole damn point of branding the GNE fleet in the first place.

The few times I've been to that London I've been surprised how bland and sterile the public transport is.

Perhaps that's what the bland and sterile people of the south like, but up here in the friendly north I vastly prefer the bright and colourful liveries and friendly next stop announcements we have.

Over the years, I've had plenty of people ask me if the 47 has been yet, never have they asked if the Red Kite has turned up. I think outside of the bus community, most people don't even notice or care about the branding.

(16 Sep 2023, 2:24 pm)Shrek wrote Over the years, I've had plenty of people ask me if the 47 has been yet, never have they asked if the Red Kite has turned up. I think outside of the bus community, most people don't even notice or care about the branding.

The number of times I've heard it referred to as 'The Northern' or heard people refer to a bus number that no longer exists, but the route does - quite remarkable.

All that money. All that time. 
Anyway, got to go, I need to get the shopping from Savacentre. Hopefully the 194 isn't too late.

(16 Sep 2023, 2:24 pm)Shrek wrote Over the years, I've had plenty of people ask me if the 47 has been yet, never have they asked if the Red Kite has turned up. I think outside of the bus community, most people don't even notice or care about the branding.

And yet I hear people say 'The Angel' more than the 21!

(16 Sep 2023, 3:44 pm)Andreos1 wrote The number of times I've heard it referred to as 'The Northern' or heard people refer to a bus number that no longer exists, but the route does - quite remarkable.

All that money. All that time. 
Anyway, got to go, I need to get the shopping from Savacentre. Hopefully the 194 isn't too late.

I saw a DFDS branded bus on the 16 in Stanley today, yet I am unable to find any comms regarding the new extension between Stanley and Tyne Commission Quay. Does this service still go to Consett?

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Bustimes.org is all anyone needs to figure out the where/when/what regarding journeys they already plan to make, whether in the next few days or next few minutes.

Branding is the best way to alert potential future customers that a bus does actually exist can meet their future needs. It worked for me, several times.

This doesn't matter in London because most people have no real choice but to use the bus, and are deeply envious of those lucky few who have other options, regardless of whether that is a tube/train or a taxi/car. TfL is making a big effort to brand SUPERLOOP precisely because they know that in those outer areas, where people actually have a choice, usually a private car, they already know those people really wouldn't notice that the X26 has been renumbered the SL3, let alone the reason for that is because it has a slightly faster and more direct route and runs far more frequently as part of a nominal outer London loop. To those people, a bus is just a bus, easily ignored if you have no pressing need to know the network.

That is what a bland corporate identity does. Most people are normal, they don't spend their days remembering the number of the various buses they see in their daily lives, or poring over network maps, just on on off chance they one day might need that specific route.

Evolution is a powerful force, and it has given humans an uncanny ability to spot patterns in the visual environment for a reason. Evolution knows nothing of numbers and maps.

I only know the X1 that works its way through tiny streets in deepest darkest Durham is the same X1 that I see every time I arrive arrive Newcastle by bus, because it's branded. I have no pressing need to make that journey today, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Those places are well within my daily sphere.

What I do know from basic common sense, is that up here in the north east, there is absolutely no reason to assume an X1 seen in two different places tens of miles apart, is the same route.

(16 Sep 2023, 6:53 pm)Fleetmaster wrote Bustimes.org is all anyone needs to figure out the where/when/what regarding journeys they already plan to make, whether in the next few days or next few minutes.

Branding is the best way to alert potential future customers that a bus does actually exist can meet their future needs. It worked for me, several times.

This doesn't matter in London because most people have no real choice but to use the bus, and are deeply envious of those lucky few who have other options, regardless of whether that is a tube/train or a taxi/car. TfL is making a big effort to brand SUPERLOOP precisely because they know that in those outer areas, where people actually have a choice, usually a private car, they already know those people really wouldn't notice that the X26 has been renumbered the SL3, let alone the reason for that is because it has a slightly faster and more direct route and runs far more frequently as part of a nominal outer London loop. To those people, a bus is just a bus, easily ignored if you have no pressing need to know the network.

That is what a bland corporate identity does. Most people are normal, they don't spend their days remembering the number of the various buses they see in their daily lives, or poring over network maps, just on on off chance they one day might need that specific route.

Evolution is a powerful force, and it has given humans an uncanny ability to spot patterns in the visual environment for a reason. Evolution knows nothing of numbers and maps.

I only know the X1 that works its way through tiny streets in deepest darkest Durham is the same X1 that I see every time I arrive arrive Newcastle by bus, because it's branded. I have no pressing need to make that journey today, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Those places are well within my daily sphere.

What I do know from basic common sense, is that up here in the north east, there is absolutely no reason to assume an X1 seen in two different places tens of miles apart, is the same route. 

Other than the fact the X1 goes nowhere tiny streets in deepest darkest Durham (guessing you meant the X12), the exact same bus you see tens of miles apart, is the same bus. 
You've contradicted yourself.

Where I live, the main street in places like Horden, is a tiny back street. The whole place is a tiny backwater.

If Go North East doesn't want people to know there are direct bus links from major hubs to these tiny distant places, unless they are unlucky enough to have to make this journey as a regular commuter, so be it.

In my travels, I noticed a few points of interest in places like Horden that I might want to make a specific trip to one day. I have access to a car, and don't mind using the combination of bike and train either. It is only because I have a good idea of hwo vast GNE's operating area is, that I would even know to look up whether a direct bus exists, in some nightmare future where the whole network is one red blob. Others probably don't know these things, just like they don't spend a second perusing network maps and publicity just out of general interest.

(16 Sep 2023, 6:53 pm)Fleetmaster wrote Bustimes.org is all anyone needs to figure out the where/when/what regarding journeys they already plan to make, whether in the next few days or next few minutes.

Branding is the best way to alert potential future customers that a bus does actually exist can meet their future needs. It worked for me, several times.

This doesn't matter in London because most people have no real choice but to use the bus, and are deeply envious of those lucky few who have other options, regardless of whether that is a tube/train or a taxi/car. TfL is making a big effort to brand SUPERLOOP precisely because they know that in those outer areas, where people actually have a choice, usually a private car, they already know those people really wouldn't notice that the X26 has been renumbered the SL3, let alone the reason for that is because it has a slightly faster and more direct route and runs far more frequently as part of a nominal outer London loop. To those people, a bus is just a bus, easily ignored if you have no pressing need to know the network.

That is what a bland corporate identity does. Most people are normal, they don't spend their days remembering the number of the various buses they see in their daily lives, or poring over network maps, just on on off chance they one day might need that specific route.

Evolution is a powerful force, and it has given humans an uncanny ability to spot patterns in the visual environment for a reason. Evolution knows nothing of numbers and maps.

I only know the X1 that works its way through tiny streets in deepest darkest Durham is the same X1 that I see every time I arrive arrive Newcastle by bus, because it's branded. I have no pressing need to make that journey today, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Those places are well within my daily sphere.

What I do know from basic common sense, is that up here in the north east, there is absolutely no reason to assume an X1 seen in two different places tens of miles apart, is the same route.

I would have said turning up and consistently delivering a service is the best way to alert customers the bus can meet their needs? Preferably roughly on time. A missing branded bus is as infuriating as a missing corporate bus. Similar to comments above, folk round my way still refer The Northern and route numbers that haven’t existed for 20 years or more.

Stagecoach for example don’t operate round my way. If I ever had the need to visit say Throckley, I know that the 22 will do me fine. General day to day observation has alerted me to this, rather than the fizz and froth of a branded bus.

(16 Sep 2023, 5:33 pm)MurdnunoC wrote I saw a DFDS branded bus on the 16 in Stanley today, yet I am unable to find any comms regarding the new extension between Stanley and Tyne Commission Quay. Does this service still go to Consett?

Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk

When it turns up

I see hundreds of GNE buses a day, in an assortment of towns and villages in County Durham and Northumberland. An increasing number are painted the same. Although an enthusiast in my spare time, I am not interested in buses enough from a day to day perspective to be bothered to take on the incredibly difficult task of figuring out the patterns based on only route numbers and destinations, just in case I one day might want to go to Horden or wherever. So by choosing to do away with branding, they are hoping I find the prospect of traveling on a GNE bus attractive enough to persuade me to research their routes and numbering without first being confident a direct bus even exists, and then hoping that if one doesn't exist, I find the prospect of changing between unfamiliar buses in a generic network a fun way to travel. I really don't. London sucks these days. Even simply painting a giant 38 on the front upper side of an otherwise all red Routemaster, made all the difference in persuading someone like me that they actually appreciate the most valuable thing about a bus, well before issues of reliability and specification, is does it go where I what to go?

(16 Sep 2023, 7:36 pm)Chris 1 wrote I would have said turning up and consistently delivering a service is the best way to alert customers the bus can meet their needs? Preferably roughly on time. A missing branded bus is as infuriating as a missing corporate bus. Similar to comments above, folk round my way still refer The Northern and route numbers that haven’t existed for 20 years or more.

Stagecoach for example don’t operate round my way. If I ever had the need to visit say Throckley, I know that the 22 will do me fine. General day to day observation has alerted me to this, rather than the fizz and froth of a branded bus.

Have to relate to this, mind I'd use the X82 - tongue in cheek as it's 10x quicker.

The brands have just caused confusion imo since some of them have been changed more times than GoNorthEast have pissed around with the local routes in Washington.

Are we going for the Creme Drifter, Green Drifter, The 9's, The Sunderland Blues, The Sunderland Violets, East Durham Explorer or Corporate bus? As that's what has been on the 61/9/61/61A in the past decade and no doubt there's other routes even worse.

Also if someone can use BusTimes, I'd be concerned if they don't understand the number of the route. BusTimes is not user friendly unless ironically you know the route number you want as brands aren't mentioned on there...?

As an outsider, I guarantee you wouldn't have the first idea how to make best use of the Stagecoach services that call at Throckley. There is so much more more the 22.

Having already done it however, I can tell you how absolutely wonderful it was to be able to spend one lazy Saturday in the summer taking in a walk along the south side of the Tyne to view the Dunston staithes and stop at the local Cafe for a mid-morning coffee, then walk a few yards to catch the Tyne Valley Ten to Corbridge in time for a lazy lunch and wander, confident I could catch a very fast bus home in the form of the 685, without missing a second of that afternoon's match.

The only reason I know about the Dunston Cafe is from biking the Tyne. The only reason I know Corebridge is from my necessarily in depth knowledge of the Stagecoach routes that pass close to me. 

The only part of this journey I have never had any need or indeed opportunity to research or generally observe, is the TTT, whose utility to me up up that point had only ever been as a means to get from town to the MetroCentre, cursing the loss of the 100 and the ignorant GNE drivers to whom a Day Rider, paper or digital, is apparently a complete mystery.

I had the opportunity to notice it earlier that summer during an earlier visit to Corbridge because funnily enough, the bright brash livery is well suited to making it very easy to notice when it is in a place you hadn't expected it to be, and indeed the branding reassured me that at that moment, it was where it was supposed to be. 

That stuck with me. That branding is quite literally the only reason I planned that itinerary that Saturday. And when I say plan, it didn't involve poring over network maps and studying timetables, because I already knew from general observation that the TTT is a frequent route.

I only even looked up the precise location and times of the stop in Dunston when I was finishing my coffee, and only because I didn't want to be looking for and standing at a stop needlessly. But if necessary, I knew if I simply left and went north, I would find a stop somewhere and a bus would be along eventually.

If GNE debrands the TTT, then they are losing custom like that. Bearing in mind they do charge a pretty penny even for single journeys like that, and it will presumably be even more if the drivers get their wish. Because my idea of a fun Saturday morning is absolutely not getting deeply intimate with the GNE app, studying where I can and cannot get to in a reasonable time frame.

Bus times is very easy to use for people who have no clue about existing networks or the various different operators, people who just want to get from A to B. You fire up a map, you find a stop at each end, and if you're lucky the same route and operator is listed at each end. You click the route number and a timetable is there ready to use, showing you the departure and arrival times for A and B.

Bustimes is difficult to use if A and B are not directly linked by a single route, requiring further research. Which is where route branding comes in.

What is the single best way to tell people looking to go from A to B but who don't have intimate knowledge the bus services in the area that a direct bus service exists, therefore unlocking the speed, convenience and basic utility of a generic tool like Bustimes.org?

Branding!

Where no direct bus exists, you are in a whole different world, and the hassle of knowing how to figure out what bus goes where is only the start of that hell for a casual bus user. But even then, simple logic suggests that even in that scenario, somehow who knows from simple basic observation that the bright orange bus goes from A to X, and the bright green bus goes from X to B, is in a better position than someone who is having to navigate a red spider's web or route numbers when using only a crappy company app.

(16 Sep 2023, 8:02 pm)Storx wrote Have to relate to this, mind I'd use the X82 - tongue in cheek as it's 10x quicker.

The brands have just caused confusion imo since some of them have been changed more times than GoNorthEast have pissed around with the local routes in Washington.

Are we going for the Creme Drifter, Green Drifter, The 9's, The Sunderland Blues, The Sunderland Violets, East Durham Explorer or Corporate bus? As that's what has been on the 61/9/61/61A in the past decade and no doubt there's other routes even worse.

Also if someone can use BusTimes, I'd be concerned if they don't understand the number of the route. BusTimes is not user friendly unless ironically you know the route number you want as brands aren't mentioned on there...?

I don't think Branding as in names are the issue i think its the constant changing of the colour, the current Blue Drifter is the best one and shouldn't be changed, same could have been said with the old Coaster Blue before it was changed. 

I feel like the constant changing of colours and the "layout" of the livery is whats hurting branding. Going from Indigo to Peterlee Purples just keep it as IndiGo, same with the 39 Doxford Park Clipper was a good name imo, now its been through a billion, same with the 2/2A i would rename it back to the Silver Arrows.

Branding works extremely well in Stanley. I'm off to Amsterdam tomorrow on that DFDS branded 16 I saw earlier today.

(16 Sep 2023, 9:10 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Branding works extremely well in Stanley. I'm off to Amsterdam tomorrow on that DFDS branded 16 I saw earlier today.

I know this wasn't a serious comment, but I do think every depot having DFDS branded decker (bar Deptford where it would be a Streelite) I dont think it would be a bad idea it would be quite good for promotion. 

Would make sense if it was "Catch 327 from Central Station to Port of Tyne" The White livery does catch your eye aswell

I know this is a very small sample size, but I know eight people who regularly get the X1 between Washington and Newcastle. I sent them a message tonight asking if they know what the brand name for the x1 is. Only one or the eight knew.

I honestly don't think branding has a big impact for the majority, though clearly for the a small number it will.

(16 Sep 2023, 10:13 pm)Shrek wrote I know this is a very small sample size, but I know eight people who regularly get the X1 between Washington and Newcastle. I sent them a message tonight asking if they know what the brand name for the x1 is. Only one or the eight knew.

I honestly don't think branding has a big impact for the majority, though clearly for the a small number it will.

It's not, let's be honest for most people it's because they have no alternative. No-one would use the buses up here, if they had a choice because of the absolutely shambles of the service they're providing especially with GoNorthEast and Arriva. I wouldn't be surprised if 99% of people in the real world would be happy if GoNorthEast went bust and their route was took over by someone else. Imagine it being similar for Arriva aswell.

It'd be very interesting if they done a genuine poll of the approval ratings for them as I wouldn't be surprised if it's well below 20%. Of course, not the ones that are done on the buses which are as reliable as a donkey. Infact that might actually get you there, when there's 3 hour gaps like on some routes today.

(16 Sep 2023, 7:15 pm)Fleetmaster wrote Where I live, the main street in places like Horden, is a tiny back street. The whole place is a tiny backwater. 

If Go North East doesn't want people to know there are direct bus links from major hubs to these tiny distant places, unless they are unlucky enough to have to make this journey as a regular commuter, so be it.

In my travels, I noticed a few points of interest in places like Horden that I might want to make a specific trip to one day. I have access to a car, and don't mind using the combination of bike and train either. It is only because I have a good idea of hwo vast GNE's operating area is, that I would even know to look up whether a direct bus exists, in some nightmare future where the whole network is one red blob. Others probably don't know these things, just like they don't spend a second perusing network maps and publicity just out of general interest.

In which case, you've yet again contradicted yourself, because the X1 goes nowhere near Horden.

To labour the point, the branding is not there to attract the attention of people already familiar with the service because they use it regularly. It would be no surprise that those people can just about tell the approaching bus has the right number. I doubt they even notice if the destination is wrong. And in that specific case, as far as I know, it no longer even has a name. It used to be the Red Arrow, now it is just the red variant of X-Lines. The gold and red makes it instantly recognizable. That is the brand, in simple terms.

If the bosses took the unwise step of deploying a generic gold livery for X lines, even though in their minds that is just a few routes in their empire, in practical terms, that means a person like me sees at least twenty different gold buses in an average day, miles apart. Too many to care where they go beyond the vague idea they are meant as some kind of express network.

Which just brings us back to how bizarre it is to a person who lives in actual civilization, that their idea of an express network is also one that serves tiny out of the way villages. Seeing these buses randomly appear at very tight junctions, or being forced to wait for an old lady or tractor, never ceases to be a source of amusement. Seeing one the other day with a very smashed windscreen was hardly a surprise, since fast and frequent is hardly compatible with their routes touching the outer reaches of the galaxy.

But I find myself increasingly disinterested in the whys and wherefores of why a particular generic red Enviro decker is struggling up a steep bank, or why another one was circling its way around a long estate road, and whether both had the same route number, or even if this sort of thing is complementing or competing with the same boring generic nonsense of seeing Arriva Enviro Deckers trundling around doing the same thing, just with more pollution belching out the back

For all I know, the red bus is a local route and the blue bus can take you to far off mysterious places like Hartlepool. Then again, who would know in the current climate of bus companies giving very little concern to branding, if it was the exact opposite. In the old days you could rely on branding to tell you if GNE had suddenly made a grab for a place like Hartlepool. Now you would have no clue unless you saw the display.

To know for sure, I'd have to start scribbling down route numbers and consulting assorted poorly conceived proprietary apps and try to memorize what I learned for future reference. I'd rather spend my time taking in the scenery to be honest.

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(16 Sep 2023, 10:32 pm)Andreos1 wrote In which case, you've yet again contradicted yourself, because the X1 goes nowhere near Horden.

Well, not nowhere near, but yes, point taken. I was wanting to say Easington Lane, but wanted an example that want obviously tied to the route, and for some reason, Horden came to mind.

(16 Sep 2023, 10:30 pm)Storx wrote It's not, let's be honest for most people it's because they have no alternative. No-one would use the buses up here, if they had a choice because of the absolutely shambles of the service they're providing especially with GoNorthEast and Arriva. I wouldn't be surprised if 99% of people in the real world would be happy if GoNorthEast went bust and their route was took over by someone else. Imagine it being similar for Arriva aswell.

It'd be very interesting if they done a genuine poll of the approval ratings for them as I wouldn't be surprised if it's well below 20%. Of course, not the ones that are done on the buses which are as reliable as a donkey. Infact that might actually get you there, when there's 3 hour gaps like on some routes today.

This seems to be quite a pessimistic view on things. 

As I think I've said on here before, I commute daily by bus. I have a car parked outside which I could use, and occasionally do if it's going to be a long day. The bus is unbranded and on an hourly frequency. 

In the past year of me using it, it hasn't shown up in the AM on one occasion (breakdown), and on the way home on one occasion. It's generally very punctual, the fares outside of the £2 cap aren't too bad, and the vehicle is generally pretty clean inside. In that year, I've watched the service go from carrying 15-20 or so on my morning commute to well over 40 most mornings across the entire journey, and it appears to be getting even busier the past couple of weeks. I imagine the people using that service are probably pretty happy with the delivery of it, and the money they're paying to use it. 

Maybe the folks that get my bus don't grumble too much, but even on the few occasions where stuff has gone wrong (gridlocked traffic, bus late because of roadworks, ridiculous council road closures and diversions etc.) they generally seem pretty understanding and have a laugh about it rather than getting irate with the driver or wishing it was ran by First Bus/NatEx/Lothian/insert bus company name here.

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(16 Sep 2023, 10:43 pm)Fleetmaster wrote To labour the point, the branding is not there to attract the attention of people already familiar with the service because they use it regularly. It would be no surprise that those people can just about tell the approaching bus has the right number. I doubt they even notice if the destination is wrong. And in that specific case, as far as I know, it no longer even has a name. It used to be the Red Arrow, now it is just the red variant of X-Lines. The gold and red makes it instantly recognizable. That is the brand, in simple terms.

You seem to be suggesting that branding is used to attract new customers to a service, and is the only way of achieving this. 

In my reply to Storx I've highlighted that the service I use on a daily basis is completely unbranded, yet has ballooned in popularity over the past year of me using it. There's also been very little in the way of promotion of the service as far as I've seen. How do you propose they've managed this?

Have X66 passenger numbers fell to nothing since they did away with branded vehicles?

(17 Sep 2023, 12:07 am)mb134 wrote This seems to be quite a pessimistic view on things. 

As I think I've said on here before, I commute daily by bus. I have a car parked outside which I could use, and occasionally do if it's going to be a long day. The bus is unbranded and on an hourly frequency. 

In the past year of me using it, it hasn't shown up in the AM on one occasion (breakdown), and on the way home on one occasion. It's generally very punctual, the fares outside of the £2 cap aren't too bad, and the vehicle is generally pretty clean inside. In that year, I've watched the service go from carrying 15-20 or so on my morning commute to well over 40 most mornings across the entire journey, and it appears to be getting even busier the past couple of weeks. I imagine the people using that service are probably pretty happy with the delivery of it, and the money they're paying to use it. 

Maybe the folks that get my bus don't grumble too much, but even on the few occasions where stuff has gone wrong (gridlocked traffic, bus late because of roadworks, ridiculous council road closures and diversions etc.) they generally seem pretty understanding and have a laugh about it rather than getting irate with the driver or wishing it was ran by First Bus/NatEx/Lothian/insert bus company name here.

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You seem to be suggesting that branding is used to attract new customers to a service, and is the only way of achieving this. 

In my reply to Storx I've highlighted that the service I use on a daily basis is completely unbranded, yet has ballooned in popularity over the past year of me using it. There's also been very little in the way of promotion of the service as far as I've seen. How do you propose they've managed this?

I don't know you know, I genuinely do believe it'll be low, low. I'm not going to brush every depot as there's a minority which are doing ie. Ashington but outside of it things are bleak.

I won't say people will get irate on the bus but the numbers of cars are increasing lately and a lot of bus routes have been decimated at the same time and locally around here things are bleak and it's not just here as places like Sunderland, Redcar, Gateshead, North Tyneside are all just as bad.

I can't imagine there'll be many people openly in support of the local operators - Stagecoach might fare a bit better, but not the other 2 but that's mainly because their services are so frequent it's unnoticeable.

Arriva Durham County, excluding Stockton and Blyth are absymal lately and GoNorthEast across the board - especially when no doubt these strikes come in which won't help matters at all. I could be wrong of course and that's before going into places like Langley Park, Coundon etc which have had their bus services destroyed by cuts.

(16 Sep 2023, 8:02 pm)Storx wrote Have to relate to this, mind I'd use the X82 - tongue in cheek as it's 10x quicker.

The brands have just caused confusion imo since some of them have been changed more times than GoNorthEast have pissed around with the local routes in Washington.

Are we going for the Creme Drifter, Green Drifter, The 9's, The Sunderland Blues, The Sunderland Violets, East Durham Explorer or Corporate bus? As that's what has been on the 61/9/61/61A in the past decade and no doubt there's other routes even worse.

Also if someone can use BusTimes, I'd be concerned if they don't understand the number of the route. BusTimes is not user friendly unless ironically you know the route number you want as brands aren't mentioned on there...?

Oh you forgot the SimpliCity Purple Versas and then the plain Silver Mercs cast offs from the 2A! The 61 has to be the worst, but sure there’s others not far behind!

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(16 Sep 2023, 10:13 pm)Shrek wrote I know this is a very small sample size, but I know eight people who regularly get the X1 between Washington and Newcastle. I sent them a message tonight asking if they know what the brand name for the x1 is. Only one or the eight knew.

I honestly don't think branding has a big impact for the majority, though clearly for the a small number it will.

Ask your sample if they knew the Red Arrows bus! I think whilst people probably never referred to it as such, people noticed the name. I think it was a daft decision to change it really, although I know why they did it.

(19 Sep 2023, 8:29 pm)Drifter60 wrote Oh you forgot the SimpliCity Purple Versas and then the plain Silver Mercs cast offs from the 2A! The 61 has to be the worst, but sure there’s others not far behind!

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Ask your sample if they knew the Red Arrows bus! I think whilst people probably never referred to it as such, people noticed the name. I think it was a daft decision to change it really, although I know why they did it.

61 from what I can remember has had, The Dennis, Cadets, Versas, Citaros (Silver/Red/Purple), Streetlites (thats in 15 years) not to mention a re-brand 

Ive heard people refer to buses as Angle, Indgo, red Arrows, Drifter, Lime, Red Kites, Prince Bishops none of the others

(19 Sep 2023, 8:29 pm)Drifter60 wrote

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Ask your sample if they knew the Red Arrows bus! I think whilst people probably never referred to it as such, people noticed the name. I think it was a daft decision to change it really, although I know why they did it.

I've asked two of them as I'm sat with them now. They knew the bus was red, they didn't know the brand name was Red Arrows though. They just know it as the x1 or "the bus that's always late" ?

(19 Sep 2023, 9:09 pm)Shrek wrote "the bus that's always late" ?

depending where you get the X1 from you might need califiction

“Look out for our distinctive purple buses”

https://flic.kr/p/2p4uyoo