I spotted on X that that CPT held their 2024 conference this week. Two documents of note to come out of it: 

• CPT Bus Manifesto 2024
  
• CPT Coach Manifesto 2024
  

The bus one is interesting, but a lot of it isn't exactly a surprise. "Give us lots of money" seems to be the main cry, with a call for a five year funding settlement. The rationale behind that one is that they'll invest in new vehicles and services, which sounds like an expectation that public money will pay for their business to survive, but they'll cream a % off the top for shareholders.

There's also a demand in for "A new statutory, funded definition of essential bus services", which doesn't seem an unreasonable ask on the surface, but in practice, I'm not sure how it'd work. There's the risk that if something is too black and white, operators could simply review all their services, and then chuck back anything that marginally meets the definition. Knowing that a LTA/ITA would have no option, other than to put the service out to tender, and they'd likely end up running it without any risk. 

I also disagree with the statement "Bus services which cannot be run on a commercial basis can be supported by councils". Shouldn't 'cannot be' be replaced with 'we won't'? 

The bit on recruitment is also interesting. What red tape are they referring to?

I've only glossed over the coach one, but I do agree with the ask to "Issue clear guidance to councils to include coach services in their local transport plans (LTPs)". To me, they should be treated in exactly the same way as express bus or train services, as good city link services. My only issue is that I don't think the coach industry does enough themselves. 

Coaches, especially in the North of England, can be infrequent or poorly timed, serve the same key points as trains, and can be difficult to find information on. Why not look at some of the Towns and Cities that are cut off or poorly served from the main rail network? Co. Durham has loads of examples, and you could also add Sunderland into that mix. Coach travel may be a more realistic prospect for those, when it cuts out a journey to/from Newcastle or Durham to catch the train.

(19 Jan 2024, 7:02 pm)Adrian wrote I spotted on X that that CPT held their 2024 conference this week. Two documents of note to come out of it: 

• CPT Bus Manifesto 2024
  
• CPT Coach Manifesto 2024
  

The bus one is interesting, but a lot of it isn't exactly a surprise. "Give us lots of money" seems to be the main cry, with a call for a five year funding settlement. The rationale behind that one is that they'll invest in new vehicles and services, which sounds like an expectation that public money will pay for their business to survive, but they'll cream a % off the top for shareholders.

There's also a demand in for "A new statutory, funded definition of essential bus services", which doesn't seem an unreasonable ask on the surface, but in practice, I'm not sure how it'd work. There's the risk that if something is too black and white, operators could simply review all their services, and then chuck back anything that marginally meets the definition. Knowing that a LTA/ITA would have no option, other than to put the service out to tender, and they'd likely end up running it without any risk. 

I also disagree with the statement "Bus services which cannot be run on a commercial basis can be supported by councils". Shouldn't 'cannot be' be replaced with 'we won't'? 

The bit on recruitment is also interesting. What red tape are they referring to?

I've only glossed over the coach one, but I do agree with the ask to "Issue clear guidance to councils to include coach services in their local transport plans (LTPs)". To me, they should be treated in exactly the same way as express bus or train services, as good city link services. My only issue is that I don't think the coach industry does enough themselves. 

Coaches, especially in the North of England, can be infrequent or poorly timed, serve the same key points as trains, and can be difficult to find information on. Why not look at some of the Towns and Cities that are cut off or poorly served from the main rail network? Co. Durham has loads of examples, and you could also add Sunderland into that mix. Coach travel may be a more realistic prospect for those, when it cuts out a journey to/from Newcastle or Durham to catch the train.

Brexit will be the red tape. Problems with getting migrants from Europe who used to do a lot of that sort of work.

Personally I think coaches are underutilised in England, there's certain routes ie. X10, X15, X21 (GNE), 253 (Scotland), 685 and X93 which questionably should be them anyway even if they competed against the train partly.

Routes like:
R1 (253/X15): Edinburgh - Haddington - Dunbar - Eyemouth - Berwick - Belford - Alnwick - Morpeth - Newcastle - Durham - Newton Aycliffe - Darlington - Croft - Northallerton - Ripon - Harrogate - Leeds

R2 (X21/X74/Unserved): Edinburgh - Galashiels - Melrose - St Boswells - Jedburgh - Otterburn - Belsay - Ponteland - Newcastle Airport - Newcastle - Durham - Spennymoor - Bishop Auckland

R3 (685 + some Cumbria service(s)): Newcastle - Hexham - Haydon Bridge - Haltwhistle - Brampton - Carlisle - Cockermouth - Workington - Whitehaven - Barrow

R4 (X10/X93/some EY services): Newcastle - Peterlee - Stockton - Middlesbrough - Guisborough - Whitby - Scarborough - Filey - Bridlington - Hull

R5 (X10/28/unserved) : Newcastle - Peterlee - Stockton - Middlesbrough - Stokesley - Thirsk - Easingwold - York - Tadcaster - Leeds

It would be much better than what we've got now than conventional buses which keep breaking every 5 years as they're not fit for purpose.

(19 Jan 2024, 7:27 pm)Storx wrote Brexit will be the red tape. Problems with getting migrants from Europe who used to do a lot of that sort of work.

Personally I think coaches are underutilised in England, there's certain routes ie. X10, X15, X21 (GNE), 253 (Scotland), 685 and X93 which questionably should be them anyway even if they competed against the train partly.

Routes like:
R1 (253/X15): Edinburgh - Haddington - Dunbar - Eyemouth - Berwick - Belford - Alnwick - Morpeth - Newcastle - Durham - Newton Aycliffe - Darlington - Croft - Northallerton - Ripon - Harrogate - Leeds

R2 (X21/X74/Unserved): Edinburgh - Galashiels - Melrose - St Boswells - Jedburgh - Otterburn - Belsay - Ponteland - Newcastle Airport - Newcastle - Durham - Spennymoor - Bishop Auckland

R3 (685 + some Cumbria service(s)): Newcastle - Hexham - Haydon Bridge - Haltwhistle - Brampton - Carlisle - Cockermouth - Workington - Whitehaven - Barrow

R4 (X10/X93/some EY services): Newcastle - Peterlee - Stockton - Middlesbrough - Guisborough - Whitby - Scarborough - Filey - Bridlington - Hull

R5 (X10/28/unserved) : Newcastle - Peterlee - Stockton - Middlesbrough - Stokesley - Thirsk - Easingwold - York - Tadcaster - Leeds

It would be much better than what we've got now than conventional buses which keep breaking every 5 years as they're not fit for purpose.

I didn't really want this to turn into another fantasy booking thread (before others pitch in!), but what you've suggested aren't coach services.

Your R1 for example; you'd spend best part of the day doing that by coach, whilst losing the will to live, when there's a train along most of that route up to every 30 minutes, if not less.

Megabus run a Glasgow - Edinburgh - Haggerston Castle - Newcastle service, which, even with those limited stops, takes almost 4 hours...

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(19 Jan 2024, 10:54 pm)Adrian wrote I didn't really want this to turn into another fantasy booking thread (before others pitch in!), but what you've suggested aren't coach services.

Your R1 for example; you'd spend best part of the day doing that by coach, whilst losing the will to live, when there's a train along most of that route up to every 30 minutes, if not less.

Megabus run a Glasgow - Edinburgh - Haggerston Castle - Newcastle service, which, even with those limited stops, takes almost 4 hours...

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The thing is it wouldn't be about the end to end, it's about the inbetween, in particular Alnwick. Stagecoach's 10 in Scotland is probably the best example of a route running with coaches - https://bustimes.org/services/10-inverness-aberdeen

Infact that's doing well they've recently introduced 4 express services a day running as the M96. Personally the idea of sitting on a Estaban seat on a rattly Enviro 400 MMC going from Alnwick to Newcastle for 90 minutes is the definition of torture and it's not as if it serves anything in between - there probably should be a service bus that does mind so the likes of Swarland aren't unserved like currently but that's a different thread.

Long distance bus travel is poor, even Northumbria used to understand back in the 90's with their coach spec vehicles. If they ran a Class 156 from Newcastle to Edinburgh there'd be hell on but it's just the same really time wise.