(22 Sep 2024, 9:16 pm)L469 YVK wrote Will be quite surprising if the X21/X22/35 is re-increased to every 20 mins given the pending launch of the ABTRL.

Why would it be surprising? The decrease was a temporary arrangement due to staffing levels, which have been resolved by all accounts. They're very busy routes which, particularly in the case of the 35, are struggling to cope on their current frequencies.

(22 Sep 2024, 10:16 pm)PH - BQA wrote Why would it be surprising? The decrease was a temporary arrangement due to staffing levels, which have been resolved by all accounts. They're very busy routes which, particularly in the case of the 35, are struggling to cope on their current frequencies.

Surely the 35 could go standalone if needs be though and increaaed to every 15 mins throughout the full route or maybe N/Seaton / Ashington to Morpeth.

But as mentioned, maybe Arriva aren't expecting a large impact of the ABTRL for the Ashington services.

Does anyone know what's happening with the 553..I'm hearing it's staying then hearing it's getting withdrawn the same day as the 47. Any idea?

(23 Sep 2024, 1:00 pm)L469 YVK wrote Surely the 35 could go standalone if needs be though and increaaed to every 15 mins throughout the full route or maybe N/Seaton / Ashington to Morpeth.

The 35 can't be standalone now without significant changes to the route of both that and the X21. The X21 is also struggling on the current frequency AFAIK, but even at every 20 minutes the 35 struggled with timekeeping due to one of the main demographics using it.

Arriva Redcar changes for November posted unusually early online: https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/...ember-2024

(23 Sep 2024, 3:58 pm)PH - BQA wrote The 35 can't be standalone now without significant changes to the route of both that and the X21. The X21 is also struggling on the current frequency AFAIK, but even at every 20 minutes the 35 struggled with timekeeping due to one of the main demographics using it.

Will the X21 struggle though once the rail goes live? 

Hexham and the withdrawal of the X85 and downgrade of the X84 to the 684, was always overbussed regardless of the train.

But as shown by GNE's X10 being at bursting point, rail improvements don't always equate to loss of passengers.

(24 Sep 2024, 9:37 pm)L469 YVK wrote Will the X21 struggle though once the rail goes live? 

Hexham and the withdrawal of the X85 and downgrade of the X84 to the 684, was always overbussed regardless of the train.

But as shown by GNE's X10 being at bursting point, rail improvements don't always equate to loss of passengers.

The X10 is because of the pricing advantages, there's none of that with the X21.

The X21 will be the one that will be hit hard if anything as it's going to lose a large chunk of people in the Bedlington Station area especially since they have to go on a detour around Nedderton.

It depends where people want to be.

Central (ironically named) isn't that convenient for a lot of people - especially hospitals, universities and St James's Park and I can't forsee that many hopping off a train to experience Metro's latest signal failure

So those people may choose to stay with the bus

(25 Sep 2024, 1:53 pm)Ambassador wrote It depends where people want to be.

Central (ironically named) isn't that convenient for a lot of people - especially hospitals, universities and St James's Park and I can't forsee that many hopping off a train to experience Metro's latest signal failure

So those people may choose to stay with the bus

I'd say that the main advantages of the train regardless of location will be:

- No road delays which do happen
- NECA integration with bus, metro, ferry and rail

Now, Nedderton is interesting. An inconvenience, but one that will be needed to keep the X21 viable when the line opens.

But, there's plenty local journeys made on the X21 and also still Bedlington Town Centre which is a good walk from Bedlington Sttaion and....also the Arcot Manor estate too.

I don't think Ashington will get badly hit. X16 & X20 worst case, could even recieve some Volvo B8RLE's with newer deckers to Whitby for the X93/X94. The X20 will still get decent loads North of Ashington for through journeys to Newcastle as well as around other parts of Ashington & North Seaton not within 10-15 mins walking distance to the train.

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(25 Sep 2024, 12:15 pm)Storx wrote The X10 is because of the pricing advantages, there's none of that with the X21.

But what about:

- Delays on the A19
- Breakdowns with unsuitable buses allocated (Volvo B5TL's before covid)
- 20 minute frequency on train

Appreciate Horden isn't right in Peterlee, but does on paper have huge advantages over the X10 given the nature of the A19.

(25 Sep 2024, 1:53 pm)Ambassador wrote It depends where people want to be.

Central (ironically named) isn't that convenient for a lot of people - especially hospitals, universities and St James's Park and I can't forsee that many hopping off a train to experience Metro's latest signal failure

So those people may choose to stay with the bus

Yeah no arguments there. Mind St James probably isn't much further from central once you account for it being a hell of a lot quicker in comparison to Haymarket. 

It's the reliability which would be the big difference for me even if it involved a slightly longer walk.

If a train says it's getting in at 8.30am it's likely to get in around then, a bus on the other hand add 15 minutes on easily for how unreliable they are.

(25 Sep 2024, 2:59 pm)L469 YVK wrote But what about:

- Delays on the A19
- Breakdowns with unsuitable buses allocated (Volvo B5TL's before covid)
- 20 minute frequency on train

Appreciate Horden isn't right in Peterlee, but does on paper have huge advantages over the X10 given the nature of the A19.

It only hourly the train south of Sunderland though bar the few limited stop services. 

The line is so slow aswell and is quite prone to delays too because of the Metro between Sunderland and Pelaw. 

A better comparison to me is Stobhill in Morpeth or the Western side of Chester Le Street who currently have no or a very limited bus service to Newcastle and that I can only assume is because everyone is using the train stations at Morpeth and CLS instead, both stations have reasonable usage.

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/...wear-nov24

Changes are here. Just timetable changes nothing to be excited about bar the 35/X21/X22 are now back to regular service before they were cut down in frequency

(01 Oct 2024, 5:32 pm)Aaron21 wrote https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/...wear-nov24

Changes are here. Just timetable changes nothing to be excited about bar the 35/X21/X22 are now back to regular service before they were cut down in frequency

Nice to see a company restoring  frequencies following a driver shortage and without the need of public money!

Just been looking at the X7-9 timetables on traveline and it seems there's another bus being added to the PVR with the services being split.

So it's now

X7/X8 - PVR 10
X9 - PVR 5

Probably a fair move for the X9 corridor since they're currently getting delayed because of issues completely off their routes (Sandy Lane).

The timings are much better aswell with a much more consistent 30 minute service at the peaks and a peak bus in at 8am and 8.30am now for the X7 rather than the pointless 8.45am

Some positive changes to give credit to them.

(02 Oct 2024, 1:26 pm)Storx wrote Just been looking at the X7-9 timetables on traveline and it seems there's another bus being added to the PVR with the services being split.

So it's now

X7/X8 - PVR 10
X9 - PVR 5

Probably a fair move for the X9 corridor since they're currently getting delayed because of issues completely off their routes (Sandy Lane).

The timings are much better aswell with a much more consistent 30 minute service at the peaks and a peak bus in at 8am and 8.30am now for the X7 rather than the pointless 8.45am

Some positive changes to give credit to them.

If High Pit, Fisher Lane & Beacon Hill could be served by an alternative such as a 43A.....would love to see the X9 form a 10 minute combined frequency with the X10 & X11 from Parkside to Newcastle. X9 route Blyth to Shankhouse then as per X10 to Newcastle.

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(01 Oct 2024, 9:01 pm)DeltaMan wrote Nice to see a company restoring  frequencies following a driver shortage and without the need of public money!

Arriva must have some confidence going forward for Ashington despite the pending rail line.

Out of interest (maybe a question for any GNE staff) but what's the fuel economy difference between and E200MMC and E400MMC?

I know it could be tempting to reduce frequency on the X21 & X22. But would a mix of double & single decks not work whilst maintaining a 20 minute frequency once the line opens?

(02 Oct 2024, 8:45 pm)L469 YVK wrote If High Pit, Fisher Lane & Beacon Hill could be served by an alternative such as a 43A.....would love to see the X9 form a 10 minute combined frequency with the X10 & X11 from Parkside to Newcastle. X9 route Blyth to Shankhouse then as per X10 to Newcastle.

See I'd do the opposite and up the X9 frequency instead personally. There's massive developments on the West side of Cramlington which are ripe for growth, in comparison to the South of Cramlington which imo is a bit overbussed. There's no need for more services along there.

I have a feeling there might be massive housing developments around Bebside station in the future aswell as the area isn't green belt and it's a prime spot. Railway line, dual carriageway etc.

Just been looking at the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 new timetables and trying to work out what the interworking pattern is now and I'm quite puzzled.

I'm not sure if anyone knows but is the X7/X8/X10/X11 all interworking now with the X9 going standalone with a PVR 5? There's going to be an awful lot of time with buses sitting around doing nothing at Blyth otherwise with 13 minutes every board which seems a bit overkill and I'd assume a PVR increase on the X10/X11 aswell.

Whereas

X7 (Blyth -> Newcastle)
X8 (Newcastle -> Blyth)
X11 (Blyth -> Newcastle)
X10 (Newcastle -> Blyth)
X8 (Blyth -> Newcastle)
X7 (Newcastle -> Blyth)
X10 (Blyth -> Newcastle)
X11 (Newcastle -> Blyth)
X7...

All link together, with each of them having 5 minutes between each board, which should be more than enough really with the extra time being added into the route instead with a PVR of 18 across all 4 which would only be a 1 bus PVR increase across the depot, instead of 2.

I'm thinking the next service changes to take place will be December when the Northumberland Line opens as Newsham has the bus stops next to the station so the re-route X8

(26 Oct 2024, 11:30 am)Aaron21 wrote I'm thinking the next service changes to take place will be December when the Northumberland Line opens as Newsham has the bus stops next to the station so the re-route X8

Other than any small changes which will "benefit" customers, I doubt Arriva will make any wholesale kneejerk changes staightaway, not until at least the line is fully operational and they get a clear picture of what demand will look like.

I expect March 2026 at the very earliest for any wholesale changes.

(26 Oct 2024, 3:24 pm)L469 YVK wrote Other than any small changes which will "benefit" customers, I doubt Arriva will make any wholesale kneejerk changes staightaway, not until at least the line is fully operational and they get a clear picture of what demand will look like.

I expect March 2026 at the very earliest for any wholesale changes.

That's not what I meant. The new bus stop at Newsham railway station will be where the X8 stops as it's detailed that bus stops will be server by buses. Whu would they not reroute the services to stop at dedicated bus stops when the line opens. Newsham & Ashington both have bus stops outside the station and will send them in when it opens. It will be a slight route alternative to stop at these stops. There is no way they would wait until the full line opens cause what if it keeps getting delayed

(26 Oct 2024, 5:37 pm)Aaron21 wrote That's not what I meant. The new bus stop at Newsham railway station will be where the X8 stops as it's detailed that bus stops will be server by buses. Whu would they not reroute the services to stop at dedicated bus stops when the line opens. Newsham & Ashington both have bus stops outside the station and will send them in when it opens. It will be a slight route alternative to stop at these stops. There is no way they would wait until the full line opens cause what if it keeps getting delayed

Yeah, that's what I meant by small beneficial improvements such as minor re-routes to serve train station stops 

Must say just been looking at the Blyth timetables for tomorrow and I really can't work out what the interworking pattern is unless everything is sitting around for 20 minutes after runs.

Seems like literally everything is interworking with everything as

X7 -> (X9, with 40 minute gap after?) -> 308 -> X11/X10 -> X8 -> 308 -> X10/X11 -> X7 all seem to link together. Not sure where the X9 fits the puzzle though only really works there.

Interesting to see that it was the above with the X9 running completely standalone.

I assume that this is going to be the long term answer for the electric problem with the X9 moving to Ashington, in return for the 43/44/45 boards going to Blyth? It would make sense since Bebside is the closest you can get to Ashington from anything else from the depot.

It's pretty much certain it's working by itself during the week, bar maybe the evening peak.

(03 Nov 2024, 6:55 pm)Storx wrote Interesting to see that it was the above with the X9 running completely standalone.

I assume that this is going to be the long term answer for the electric problem with the X9 moving to Ashington, in return for the 43/44/45 boards going to Blyth? It would make sense since Bebside is the closest you can get to Ashington from anything else from the depot.

It's pretty much certain it's working by itself during the week, bar maybe the evening peak.

It would seem pretty inconvenient for Ashington to operate the X9, there'd likely need to be remote reliefs for each break and there are no other services which it could realistically interwork with.

(03 Nov 2024, 8:00 pm)PH - BQA wrote It would seem pretty inconvenient for Ashington to operate the X9, there'd likely need to be remote reliefs for each break and there are no other services which it could realistically interwork with.

Agreed in a way but something is going to have to go as I don't believe there's enough space for all the 43/44/45 boards at Blyth and it seems like the X7/X8/X10/X11 are interworking as of tomorrow. 

The 2/X9 could interwork at Blyth though. I'm not sure whether it's just a complete co-incidence but the times are all aligned up from start of service til around 5pm for it do it tomorrow, if they wanted. Be a 4 hour 45 minute or so round trip if I'm right so would work.

(03 Nov 2024, 8:00 pm)PH - BQA wrote It would seem pretty inconvenient for Ashington to operate the X9, there'd likely need to be remote reliefs for each break and there are no other services which it could realistically interwork with.

Not forgetting that any remote reliefs involving use of an ancillary vehicle or spare bus, count towards driving hours.

Good to see the Blyth changes have solved all the timetable issues at peak times /s

Not sure having everything interworking is exactly the best idea either as a bit of traffic on one of the routes is sinking the whole network now and it's happening pretty much daily because of the roadworks at Newsham.

(12 Nov 2024, 5:21 pm)Storx wrote Good to see the Blyth changes have solved all the timetable issues at peak times /s

Not sure having everything interworking is exactly the best idea either as a bit of traffic on one of the routes is sinking the whole network now and it's happening pretty much daily because of the roadworks at Newsham.

Interworking has never worked out in the past for the Newcastle - Blyth routes, ever. I guess the rationale for interworking is to cut down on driver and vehicle requirements, but it is not delivering a reliable service and furthers the IMO justifiable franchising cause.

(13 Nov 2024, 2:37 am)solsburian wrote Interworking has never worked out in the past for the Newcastle - Blyth routes, ever. I guess the rationale for interworking is to cut down on driver and vehicle requirements, but it is not delivering a reliable service and furthers the IMO justifiable franchising cause.

Yeah totally agreed. To be honest it's the sort of the area I'd kinda say BSIP should be used but in return Arriva has to offer more. 

Such as adding 1 extra bus then do:

X7: PVR 5, additionally serves Tillmouth Avenue 
X8: PVR 5, additionally serves Sandringham Drive
X9: PVR 5, no changes
X10/X11: PVR 9, Flip X10/X11 one serves railway station, other does something else go in via Ogle Drive maybe?

PB0002717/354
Variation ARRIVA DURHAM COUNTY LTD X3 (X2, X3, X3A) Middlesbrough Lingdale/New Marske
Effective date 12 Jan 2025