(14 Dec 2024, 3:43 pm)R852 PRG wrote How did they do the job beforehand? With respect, while I know you do a hard job, what you're excusing is a skill issue.

Because the old machines had the fare stages on a single screen with a single button press for each stage, and everything was with cash. Now you have to individually select a fare stage and scroll down a big list of irrelevant fare stages on a different page to everything else. It is possible, it's just not worth the hassle or the time. Not to mention some of the less tech savvy people working as drivers struggle with the tech. You can call it a skill issue, but dismissing it as such doesn't save the time it takes for people to actually navigate the machines.

(16 Dec 2024, 1:56 pm)deanmachine wrote Because the old machines had the fare stages on a single screen with a single button press for each stage, and everything was with cash. Now you have to individually select a fare stage and scroll down a big list of irrelevant fare stages on a different page to everything else. It is possible, it's just not worth the hassle or the time. Not to mention some of the less tech savvy people working as drivers struggle with the tech. You can call it a skill issue, but dismissing it as such doesn't save the time it takes for people to actually navigate the machines.

Won't it have to go back to that though, if what Go North East are saying is that some fares will be lower than the £2.50 cap? Unless as I suspect, they'll actually be few and far between?

Has the need to scroll a big list changed between the older and new Ticketer machines? If so, I wonder if it's the way it's been configured, rather than the ETMs themselves? As a company producing hardware/software, it'd be quite regressive of them to slow down a pretty standard process for everyone using their machines. You'd think they'd have a queue of their customers, the operators, knocking on their door if that were the case.

(16 Dec 2024, 2:33 pm)Adrian wrote Won't it have to go back to that though, if what Go North East are saying is that some fares will be lower than the £2.50 cap? Unless as I suspect, they'll actually be few and far between?

Has the need to scroll a big list changed between the older and new Ticketer machines? If so, I wonder if it's the way it's been configured, rather than the ETMs themselves? As a company producing hardware/software, it'd be quite regressive of them to slow down a pretty standard process for everyone using their machines. You'd think they'd have a queue of their customers, the operators, knocking on their door if that were the case.

Yeah, a big complaint when we started using ticketer was that it slowed us down quite a bit. The new Samsung tablets controlling them might actually help as you'll be able to scroll between the stages quite quickly if you know when they change fare. It was only really a problem previously on long routes with a lot of stages with a change of price, but with a £2.50 cap it'll be quite quick to find them. Although you might notice that the stages might start saying the stage after it changes to £2.50 rather than where you want to go or the terminus.

Stagecoach fare announcements from 1st Jan:
North East CA: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and...fare-north
Tees Valley CA: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and...-fare-tvca

It's good to see there's an alternative to cranking everything up to £2.50/£3.00, as another operator has done. I like how they've also given examples for each area about what the fare cap increase will mean for them.

Shows what can be done, if you actually put a little time and effort into your presentation.

(18 Dec 2024, 1:47 pm)Adrian wrote Stagecoach fare announcements from 1st Jan:
North East CA: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and...fare-north
Tees Valley CA: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and...-fare-tvca

It's good to see there's an alternative to cranking everything up to £2.50/£3.00, as another operator has done. I like how they've also given examples for each area about what the fare cap increase will mean for them.

Shows what can be done, if you actually put a little time and effort into your presentation.

Most Stagecoach fares were under £2.50 before the cap came in two years ago, whereas most GNE fares were £2.30 before the cap came in. 

So there are going to be differences when the cap is increased.

Do we know what Arriva are doing yet? 

Minimum fare on Metro looks to be £2.80 unless you have a pop card PAYG card.

(18 Dec 2024, 6:31 pm)busmanT wrote Do we know what Arriva are doing yet? 

We do now: https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/...north-east

Summary:
From 1 January 2025 there will be price changes to some of our fares in the North East.

We’re simplifying our single bus fares, taking into account feedback from customers and stakeholders who previously expressed concerns over the complexity of our single fare structure. Our new single fare structure will instead only hold three price points, which we believe will be much simpler.

Most single fares in the region will therefore be priced at either £1.60 or £1.70 for short trips, £2.30 for slightly longer journeys and then anything beyond this will be capped at either £2.50 or £3.00 per journey (see full details below).

Return tickets will also be removed from sale, however all existing day, week and longer tickets will continue to be available with no change to price or zones.

• Essentially it's similar to Stagecoach, in that they aren't just hiking everything to the maximum they possibly can in the way that Go North East are. 
  

(14 Dec 2024, 5:11 pm)Shrek wrote I love tap on tap off, saved a decent amount using it on Arriva. It needs to be across the network so if you do decide to use a different company then you get capped at the £6 Transport North East ticket.

It’s definitely more useful for frequent travel but if I’ve walked into town, bought stuff (I appreciate that scenario is becoming increasingly unlikely in Durham) and can’t face lugging it the 2km back up the hill to get home and that’s it for  my bus travel for the day, it’s definitely a case of easier for them than me so I end up catching the 62 or a more expensive GNE bus just to avoid it on the 64.

(18 Dec 2024, 6:31 pm)busmanT wrote Most Stagecoach fares were under £2.50 before the cap came in two years ago, whereas most GNE fares were £2.30 before the cap came in. 

So there are going to be differences when the cap is increased.

Do we know what Arriva are doing yet? 

Minimum fare on Metro looks to be £2.80 unless you have a pop card PAYG card.

I don't think that is entirely correct to suggest most fares were £2.30. There were plenty of fares that were under. It actually wasn't so long ago that Go North East were banding around Summer saving fares too.

We now know that only one of the three major operators in the North East have gone for the instant cash grab option, which is a bit embarrassing for them really. I suspect the other two operators have a degree of understanding how significant fare hikes impact their customers, and have opted to take different approaches 

I don't think many will follow your interpretation of the fare increase being below inflation, just because some fares may have been £2.30 two years ago. If they've been £2 for the last two years, then the increase is 25%.

(20 Dec 2024, 9:46 pm)Adrian wrote I don't think that is entirely correct to suggest most fares were £2.30. There were plenty of fares that were under. It actually wasn't so long ago that Go North East were banding around Summer saving fares too.

We now know that only one of the three major operators in the North East have gone for the instant cash grab option, which is a bit embarrassing for them really. I suspect the other two operators have a degree of understanding how significant fare hikes impact their customers, and have opted to take different approaches 

I don't think many will follow your interpretation of the fare increase being below inflation, just because some fares may have been £2.30 two years ago. If they've been £2 for the last two years, then the increase is 25%.

Quite. The GNE journeys I make in town were around £1.70 before the first £2 cap was announced then they were increased to £1.90 and then £2 after the cap was introduced. The equivalent fared on arriva and GCT are still below the cap. If those £2 fares increase to £2.50 then I won't be using GNE for single journeys in town on my own, not because I can't afford it but because of their sheer brass neck.

Are people suggesting they will not be….getting their bums on board?

Cause…award winning y’know?

(20 Dec 2024, 11:16 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Quite. The GNE journeys I make in town were around £1.70 before the first £2 cap was announced then they were increased to £1.90 and then £2 after the cap was introduced. The equivalent fared on arriva and GCT are still below the cap. If those £2 fares increase to £2.50 then I won't be using GNE for single journeys in town on my own, not because I can't afford it but because of their sheer brass neck.

That's a whopping 47% increase over approx 4 years.

Of which a chunk is probably aligned to the introduction and subsequent increase of the cap.

(18 Dec 2024, 1:47 pm)Adrian wrote Stagecoach fare announcements from 1st Jan:
North East CA: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and...fare-north
Tees Valley CA: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and...-fare-tvca

It's good to see there's an alternative to cranking everything up to £2.50/£3.00, as another operator has done. I like how they've also given examples for each area about what the fare cap increase will mean for them.

Shows what can be done, if you actually put a little time and effort into your presentation.

Had it confirmed internally now the exact structure for NECA.
Stage A (current 1.60) is raised to 1.90
Stage B (current 1.80) is raised to 1.90
Stage C (current 2.00, was 2.10 pre-cap) is raised to 2.30
Stage D (was 2.30 pre-cap) is raised to 2.50.

Also confirmation there will be no changes to period or multi-journey tickets.

(20 Dec 2024, 3:32 pm)PH - BQA wrote We do now: https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/...north-east

Summary:
From 1 January 2025 there will be price changes to some of our fares in the North East.

We’re simplifying our single bus fares, taking into account feedback from customers and stakeholders who previously expressed concerns over the complexity of our single fare structure. Our new single fare structure will instead only hold three price points, which we believe will be much simpler.

Most single fares in the region will therefore be priced at either £1.60 or £1.70 for short trips, £2.30 for slightly longer journeys and then anything beyond this will be capped at either £2.50 or £3.00 per journey (see full details below).

Return tickets will also be removed from sale, however all existing day, week and longer tickets will continue to be available with no change to price or zones.

• Essentially it's similar to Stagecoach, in that they aren't just hiking everything to the maximum they possibly can in the way that Go North East are. 
  

Mind I'm surprised there hasn't been some discussion here as there's some nasty price hikes sneaking in here unless singles are being reduced in price and there's another fare zone between £2.30 and £3.00 for the more Southern areas.

For example on the 15 in, Stockton to Ragworth Shops is currently a £3.50 return, the current single fare is £2.10 so that's either £4.60 a return now, or even worse £5.30 (Day Ticket) That's a hike and a half.

Darlington is much of the same, ie picking out the 4 some current fares are (using the grid on BusTimes)
Zone A: £1.40 / £2.00 Return
Zone B: £2.40 / £3.90 Return

These are now at least
Zone A: £1.60 / £3.20 Return
Zone B: £2.50 or £3.00 / £4.60 Day Ticket

Massive price increases there and that's before mentioning the £1 evening fare is scrapped on the lot.

(29 Dec 2024, 2:08 pm)Storx wrote Mind I'm surprised there hasn't been some discussion here as there's some nasty price hikes sneaking in here unless singles are being reduced in price and there's another fare zone between £2.30 and £3.00 for the more Southern areas.

For example on the 15 in, Stockton to Ragworth Shops is currently a £3.50 return, the current single fare is £2.10 so that's either £4.60 a return now, or even worse £5.30 (Day Ticket) That's a hike and a half.

Darlington is much of the same, ie picking out the 4 some current fares are (using the grid on BusTimes)
Zone A: £1.40 / £2.00 Return
Zone B: £2.40 / £3.90 Return

These are now at least
Zone A: £1.60 / £3.20 Return
Zone B: £2.50 or £3.00 / £4.60 Day Ticket

Massive price increases there and that's before mentioning the £1 evening fare is scrapped on the lot.

I can't really comment, as I don't know the area outside of the North East CA well enough to, but I'd be asking questions of why the Tees Valley CA aren't doing more to step in?

I don't think Kim has gone far enough to only go half way, but I suppose it is a positive that she's protected fares for young people and reduced the cap increase. Whereas Ben is doing very little for the CA in terms of buses, yet at the same time, the Airport that he keeps bankrolling has posted losses again, and of around £6.6m for this year.

(29 Dec 2024, 5:18 pm)Adrian wrote I can't really comment, as I don't know the area outside of the North East CA well enough to, but I'd be asking questions of why the Tees Valley CA aren't doing more to step in?

I don't think Kim has gone far enough to only go half way, but I suppose it is a positive that she's protected fares for young people and reduced the cap increase. Whereas Ben is doing very little for the CA in terms of buses, yet at the same time, the Airport that he keeps bankrolling has posted losses again, and of around £6.6m for this year.

Aye definitely, only really the £4 Durham cap that's saving the Durham area as I'd imagine there'd be routes affected there aswell, the fare tables are all broken though.

Northumbria doesn't seem to be affected too much but that's more because the fares are a rip off anyway and the £5 Northumberland cap is sorting the other side out. Bar the 308 and routes through Gosforth, not much left of Arriva in Tyne and Wear now to really compare and the 43/44/45 tables are also broken.

It's a dirty little trick removing returns which surprisingly GNE haven't done as a lot of other GoAhead areas appear to have done.

Just noticed Nexus are still recommending 'Buzzfares' as a ticket option for Go North East...

https://www.nexus.org.uk/bus-day-tickets

On the 685 the kids fares for Schoolchildren travelling to Brampton School from anywhere in Northumberland (Haltwhistle, Bardon Mill, Hexham, etc) are now £3 for a single! Ludicrous that a child has to pay £6 every day to travel to school. It was only £3.60 for a return a couple months ago

(18 Dec 2024, 1:47 pm)Adrian wrote Stagecoach fare announcements from 1st Jan:
North East CA: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and...fare-north
Tees Valley CA: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and...-fare-tvca

It's good to see there's an alternative to cranking everything up to £2.50/£3.00, as another operator has done. I like how they've also given examples for each area about what the fare cap increase will mean for them.

Shows what can be done, if you actually put a little time and effort into your presentation.

It seems like Go North East do indeed have some fares under £2, although not sure how widespread it is.

As an example, Wallsend - Byker Retail Park on the 1 is £2, and all of the fares on the 317 seem to be either £1.80 or £2.30 depending on how far you travel.

(07 Jan 2025, 10:11 pm)Thomas12 wrote It seems like Go North East do indeed have some fares under £2, although not sure how widespread it is.

As an example, Wallsend - Byker Retail Park on the 1 is £2, and all of the fares on the 317 seem to be either £1.80 or £2.30 depending on how far you travel.

Happy to be corrected here but those 317 fares are the Nexus fares aren't they?

Well.... Had my first trip to work on bus this morning and as I thought got charged the full whack............. 2.50 from my pelaw penthouse to heworth metro. AT LEAST DICK TURPIN WOR A MASK

So just wondering if Kim hadn't subsidised it by 50p would i be paying £3 for 3 bus stop trip??

"Happy to be corrected here but those 317 fares are the Nexus fares aren't they?"

I thought they were TBH

(08 Jan 2025, 8:27 am)Rob44 wrote Well.... Had my first trip to work on bus this morning and as I thought got charged the full whack............. 2.50 from my pelaw penthouse to heworth metro.  AT LEAST DICK TURPIN WOR A MASK
So just wondering if Kim hadn't subsidised it by 50p would i be paying £3 for 3 bus stop trip??
"Happy to be corrected here but those 317 fares are the Nexus fares aren't they?"
I thought they were TBH

Not sure where Pelaw Hotel is, but that should be £2 not £2.50

https://bustimes.org/fares/tariffs/7078078

That's been updated aswell so will be right.

(08 Jan 2025, 11:03 am)Storx wrote Not sure where Pelaw Hotel is, but that should be £2 not £2.50

https://bustimes.org/fares/tariffs/7078078

That's been updated aswell so will be right.

If the stop is at or after the Pelaw Hotel stage, I'd be double-checking the destination stage printed on the ticket too.

As has been suggested on here, selecting the stage sounds like a faff on from a driver perspective, so I'd not be surprised if there are still drivers issuing to the terminus or incorrect stage. 

It's just as important if you're issued a £2 ticket for a £2.50 fare. The onus is still on the passenger to have a valid ticket.

(08 Jan 2025, 11:17 am)Adrian wrote If the stop is at or after the Pelaw Hotel stage, I'd be double-checking the destination stage printed on the ticket too.

As has been suggested on here, selecting the stage sounds like a faff on from a driver perspective, so I'd not be surprised if there are still drivers issuing to the terminus or incorrect stage. 

It's just as important if you're issued a £2 ticket for a £2.50 fare. The onus is still on the passenger to have a valid ticket.

Pelaw to Heworth on the Metro looks to be £2.80 single!

(08 Jan 2025, 11:38 am)busmanT wrote Pelaw to Heworth on the Metro looks to be £2.80 single!

And Kim hasn't subsidised that out of her BSIP pot. 
So it would be 20p cheaper than getting the bus!

(08 Jan 2025, 11:38 am)busmanT wrote Pelaw to Heworth on the Metro looks to be £2.80 single!

What's that got to do with checking a ticket has been issued correctly?

(08 Jan 2025, 11:17 am)Adrian wrote If the stop is at or after the Pelaw Hotel stage, I'd be double-checking the destination stage printed on the ticket too.

As has been suggested on here, selecting the stage sounds like a faff on from a driver perspective, so I'd not be surprised if there are still drivers issuing to the terminus or incorrect stage. 

It's just as important if you're issued a £2 ticket for a £2.50 fare. The onus is still on the passenger to have a valid ticket.

Yeah agreed, no doubt what the issue is. Mind I'm not sure where Pelaw Hotel is. Has there ever been a hotel there? I certainly can't picture one.

----

On the Metro it's only £1.80 with a Pop Card which everyone has access to. If people choose not to get one, that's their choice but it's only fair that there's discounted fares for those using a smart card since there's benefits of doing so.

If GoNorthEast and Stagecoach want to come to the 21st century and offer some form of tap on/tap off with discounted fares I'm sure they'd be welcomed by most bar the 'cash is king' numpties.

(08 Jan 2025, 12:12 pm)Storx wrote Yeah agreed, no doubt what the issue is. Mind I'm not sure where Pelaw Hotel is. Has there ever been a hotel there? I certainly can't picture one.

----

On the Metro it's only £1.80 with a Pop Card which everyone has access to. If people choose not to get one, that's their choice but it's only fair that there's discounted fares for those using a smart card since there's benefits of doing so.

If GoNorthEast and Stagecoach want to come to the 21st century and offer some form of tap on/tap off with discounted fares I'm sure they'd be welcomed by most bar the 'cash is king' numpties.

it's the Pelaw Inn, presumably it was an "inn" when the fare stages were created (about 50 years ago if Shell-Mex was correct at the time!)

I get on just after the gym and pizza place on the right as heading to heworth, the the boarding point was " bill Quay" which i assume is the estate behind those shops??. Next stop is aldi on left. From what I've read on here I need to walk up the bank to save 50p!

I'm sure a tranfare Pelaw M to heworth then bus from there to work might be less then £5 now to be honest so might try that - or move closer to work LOL

(08 Jan 2025, 12:49 pm)omnicity4659 wrote it's the Pelaw Inn, presumably it was an "inn" when the fare stages were created (about 50 years ago if Shell-Mex was correct at the time!)

Missed the pub, would make sense then. Wonder if it might have been a mistake when it was done instead? Can certainly see how someone could've mixed it up.

Mind that said, there badly needs to be one system considering on bus timetables etc it doesn't exist. It's a problem all the place as we still have a farezone called Shultons Factory which must've changed name 30 years ago.

(08 Jan 2025, 1:26 pm)Rob44 wrote I get on just after the gym and pizza place on the right as heading to heworth, the the boarding point was " bill Quay" which i assume is the estate behind those shops??. Next stop is aldi on left. From what I've read on here I need to walk up the bank to save 50p!

I'm sure a tranfare Pelaw M to heworth then bus from there to work might be less then £5 now to be honest so might try that - or move closer to work LOL

Aye sounds like you're right with walking up the hill. £3.80 for a transfare nowadays like, expensive tbh.

(08 Jan 2025, 1:56 pm)Storx wrote Missed the pub, would make sense then. Wonder if it might have been a mistake when it was done instead? Can certainly see how someone could've mixed it up.

Mind that said, there badly needs to be one system considering on bus timetables etc it doesn't exist. It's a problem all the place as we still have a farezone called Shultons Factory which must've changed name 30 years ago.


Aye sounds like you're right with walking up the hill. £3.80 for a transfare nowadays like, expensive tbh.

3.80 still cheaper than 5 quid!.