(27 Jan 2025, 7:13 am)Ambassador wrote The number, although a random change isn’t the biggest issue. We’ve had an Angel 22 in the past but I agree there could have been more thought to it. The obsession with 2 digits doesn’t help.

It’s more the totally random change communicated to passengers via a south Tyneside and Sunderland update as a footnote

Personally I don't see the issue with duplicate numbers. 

The routes are so far away they wouldn't really cause any issues ie. 10/11 in both Sunderland and Newcastle with Stagecoach. 

Personally rather see the areas each numbered accordingly with avoiding duplicates across operators ie. no two 1's along Market Street and an X1 going the opposite way nearby rather than a 25 in Sunderland and a 25 in South Shields which will never meet. 

If there's an issue between a 25 in those areas then there's arguably an issue with a 25 in Leeds because it's as likely someone will use that than both the Tyneside ones.

If someone manages to get the wrong 25 then that's a you problem imo.

(27 Jan 2025, 10:15 am)Storx wrote Personally I don't see the issue with duplicate numbers. 

The routes are so far away they wouldn't really cause any issues ie. 10/11 in both Sunderland and Newcastle with Stagecoach. 

Personally rather see the areas each numbered accordingly with avoiding duplicates across operators ie. no two 1's along Market Street and an X1 going the opposite way nearby rather than a 25 in Sunderland and a 25 in South Shields which will never meet. 

If there's an issue between a 25 in those areas then there's arguably an issue with a 25 in Leeds because it's as likely someone will use that than both the Tyneside ones.

If someone manages to get the wrong 25 then that's a you problem imo.

I think the point being made is that someone looking for a 25 in Newcastle will now have a long wait as it's been renumbered the 22 with little to no communication in that area.  And at the same time, now creates two 22s in the same city centre which is just daft (but sadly not unique).

(27 Jan 2025, 2:48 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote I think the point being made is that someone looking for a 25 in Newcastle will now have a long wait as it's been renumbered the 22 with little to no communication in that area.  And at the same time, now creates two 22s in the same city centre which is just daft (but sadly not unique).

Aye totally, I was just saying I don't see the the point why renumbered it at all. 

The only reason is GNE don't have duplicate numbers but not sure who it really benefits unless there's technical issues with their behind the scenes systems which doesn't allow two of the same number but that's a bit of a shortfall.

There was 2 different 33's at one point. The 33 in Sunderland and the 33 in Newcastle I think it was. Differentiated on the display selector as 33N for the Nexus route in Newcastle.

Same when GNE had the 8 (both Sunderland) and the Nexus one was 8N on the display and ticket machine so I assume their behind the scenes tracking etc can differentiate.

I think the biggest issue is renumbering routes, all that's going to do is confuse people.

(27 Jan 2025, 5:55 pm)Storx wrote Aye totally, I was just saying I don't see the the point why renumbered it at all. 

The only reason is GNE don't have duplicate numbers but not sure who it really benefits unless there's technical issues with their behind the scenes systems which doesn't allow two of the same number but that's a bit of a shortfall.

Totally agree I don't know why the 5 needed to become the 25 and therefore why the 25 needed to change.  Or indeed if they really wanted the 25 to be the 22, still why the 5 needed to be changed.  It is not like the numbering makes any real sense with any of the operators these days in terms of number blocks etc.  Also makes no sense some of the new service numbers in the Sunderland changes.

The worst would be having two GNE number 25's imo.  It's different to Stagecoach where each area is in effect it's own operation.  GNE, most people have no clue which depot operates their service and with so many traversing the region I do think number duplication for GNE would be an own goal (notwithstanding these are their speciality).  Going onto the website and having to figure out which of the two 25's you want would just be confusing for the average punter - and totally unnecessary with so many completely unused numbers available, even in the two digit system alone.

Absolute, Object Chaos in Park Lane, no one knows what number to get, where anything stops or how to get anywhere. I can imagine when the 25 turned up people were perplexed, as goes with the 22

(27 Jan 2025, 6:54 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Totally agree I don't know why the 5 needed to become the 25 and therefore why the 25 needed to change.  Or indeed if they really wanted the 25 to be the 22, still why the 5 needed to be changed.  It is not like the numbering makes any real sense with any of the operators these days in terms of number blocks etc.  Also makes no sense some of the new service numbers in the Sunderland changes.

The worst would be having two GNE number 25's imo.  It's different to Stagecoach where each area is in effect it's own operation.  GNE, most people have no clue which depot operates their service and with so many traversing the region I do think number duplication for GNE would be an own goal (notwithstanding these are their speciality).  Going onto the website and having to figure out which of the two 25's you want would just be confusing for the average punter - and totally unnecessary with so many completely unused numbers available, even in the two digit system alone.

See I get your point on the last bit but personally I think the website is the problem more than anything. 

GoNorthEast used to split up with GoNorthern and GoGateshead etc and in a public information way (not branding) I think it would be better to kind of split it up like Stagecoach does. 

Like just looking at the services updates it's just too long and someone in Sunderland doesn't care what's happening in Whitley Bay and vice versa. 

The Stagecoach site is much superior imo. it'd be interesting if there's a larger area dumped into one website which isn't mostly rural. I certainly can't think of any off the top of my head since Transdev etc are all split up.

(27 Jan 2025, 9:12 pm)Storx wrote See I get your point on the last bit but personally I think the website is the problem more than anything. 

GoNorthEast used to split up with GoNorthern and GoGateshead etc and in a public information way (not branding) I think it would be better to kind of split it up like Stagecoach does. 

Like just looking at the services updates it's just too long and someone in Sunderland doesn't care what's happening in Whitley Bay and vice versa. 

The Stagecoach site is much superior imo. it'd be interesting if there's a larger area dumped into one website which isn't mostly rural. I certainly can't think of any off the top of my head since Transdev etc are all split up.

Yeah it is a challenge of the GNE operating area I guess that makes it tricky to carve up.  The Coastline, Wear Buses, GAG etc setup probably made most sense but because of a lot of their services linking across areas it still meant it wasn't 'clean' - and places like Newcastle would still have a bit of everything with little to no local identity.  Arguably a one size fits all brand with more sensible route numbering (perhaps going back to the three digit system), which may be delivered by devo, could work out for the best.

The Stagecoach set up of local areas works well but personally I find their website a pain to have to change the location and then refresh the service updates etc.  And you do still get the popup list of other irrelevant services e.g. type 10 in the timetable search from Sunderland and it will show you the Shields and Newcastle routes as well - but it does seem to have a level of intelligence built in showing the nearest first.

(27 Jan 2025, 7:18 pm)Unber43 wrote Absolute, Object Chaos in Park Lane, no one knows what number to get, where anything stops or how to get anywhere. I can imagine when the 25 turned up people were perplexed, as goes with the 22

It does not help as most services haven't changed but on the app whenever a service interworks it shows as picking up at that stand even though it will only drop off and pull in with a different number. If you go on the GNE app and go to any Park Lane stand you'll understand what I mean. Utterly ridiculous (this i snot just park lane but I think it is the worst as everything interworks on an evening...

These changes have hurt the 61 more than anything

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(29 Jan 2025, 12:36 am)logidoodah wrote It does not help as most services haven't changed but on the app whenever a service interworks it shows as picking up at that stand even though it will only drop off and pull in with a different number. If you go on the GNE app and go to any Park Lane stand you'll understand what I mean. Utterly ridiculous (this i snot just park lane but I think it is the worst as everything interworks on an evening...

Still the same today, all over FB aswell, chaos, people ending up all over as they didnt know that X goes into the bus station, X doesn't, X doesnt go there anymore, X doesnt go this way anymore, how do i get to X.

Absolute Object Chaos

Service 25 , a week later is still announcing Newcastle or Chester le St. instead of South Shields or Jarrow. 
Confusion for the visual impaired passenger.

All there has been especially on the 61 is delay after delay. Hell on because it doesn't serve Park Lane on the way towards Pennywell. I think people are pretty annoyed with the 2 being split as its cut off a lot of links.

(02 Feb 2025, 10:33 pm)nova347 wrote All there has been especially on the 61 is delay after delay. Hell on because it doesn't serve Park Lane on the way towards Pennywell. I think people are pretty annoyed with the 2 being split as its cut off a lot of links.

2 is a massive loss as is the 39.  The only benefit is pennywell. Ryhope Doxford park and Silksworth have lost links 
Hollycarrside doesn’t warrant the 62 and 62a on the west side. One of these should serve Ryhope village as people are struggling to get to work and shopping at Doxford park/international. The quicker we get our bee network similar to Manchester the better. Feel sorry for 61 passengers aswell

So this forum finally got its dream of diverting the 61 away from Ryhope Road, splitting the 2 and renumbering the services through Grangetown, and it's turned out to be a complete disaster. Who'd have known!

(08 Feb 2025, 12:00 am)F114TML wrote So this forum finally got its dream of diverting the 61 away from Ryhope Road, splitting the 2 and renumbering the services through Grangetown, and it's turned out to be a complete disaster. Who'd have known!

To be fair splitting the 2 isn't the problem nor was renumbering the services either.

If they kept the 39/39A as it was but renumbered in the 60's and have the 2/2A as it was (maybe merged with the 33 since their interworking anyway so why not) there wouldn't be any issues. The problems was the messing around with routes in the Ryhope area and decreasing the Doxford Park - Ryhope section down to every 30 minutes.

The 2 was way too long, as it was, and was affecting people. Someone in Silksworth didn't want to be delayed because their bus was stuck at Shiney Row or vice versa.

(08 Feb 2025, 8:34 am)Storx wrote To be fair splitting the 2 isn't the problem nor was renumbering the services either.

If they kept the 39/39A as it was but renumbered in the 60's and have the 2/2A as it was (maybe merged with the 33 since their interworking anyway so why not) there wouldn't be any issues. The problems was the messing around with routes in the Ryhope area and decreasing the Doxford Park - Ryhope section down to every 30 minutes.

The 2 was way too long, as it was, and was affecting people. Someone in Silksworth didn't want to be delayed because their bus was stuck at Shiney Row or vice versa.

There has been none or very very few delays on the 2 since the changes , so a positive outcome for the 2. And with as many day and weekly tickets including the interworking tickets (Day Rover & £6.80 TNE) from the company point of view it's not costing the customer any extra to connect to another service to complete their journey.

(08 Feb 2025, 10:26 am)Retro Nero wrote There has been none or very very few delays on the 2 since the changes , so a positive outcome for the 2. And with as many day and weekly tickets including the interworking tickets (Day Rover & £6.80 TNE) from the company point of view it's not costing the customer any extra to connect to another service to complete their journey. 

Other than time? 
It would be interesting to see what the connection times are like now for those who are needing to travel across the city.

It would also be interesting to see how it affects the infrequent user. 

£4 a day for a return trip previously.

(08 Feb 2025, 12:33 pm)Andreos1 wrote Other than time? 
It would be interesting to see what the connection times are like now for those who are needing to travel across the city.

It would also be interesting to see how it affects the infrequent user. 

£4 a day for a return trip previously.

To be fair, none of the cross city links have been lost bar Silksworth to the hospital on a magical mystery tour of the world or extreme journeys like Grangetown to Washington which will not be popular. 

It's more local issues really Silksworth to ASDA and Ryhope Village to Doxford Park which appear to the 2 big ones more than anything and then the issues with the 61 now being too long and having the same issues which blighted the 2 - that should not be going across Sunderland either imo.

Purely anecdotally just driving a couple per day. The reliability doesn't seem great, but that seems to be because there's no recovery time in Park Lane. The other night I was driving a 63 that came in 20 minutes late, The previous driver took it over as a 61 already 20 minutes late, that it lost on the 62 earlier at school time, it did a 33 after the 61, then turned into the 63, then after that a 35 then 32. Staying 20 minutes late the whole time. If each one had 5-10 minutes in Park Lane after peak time then maybe they wouldn't be as bad, but they seem to go out on the next service almost immediately.

(08 Feb 2025, 4:00 pm)Storx wrote  
To be fair, none of the cross city links have been lost bar Silksworth to the hospital on a magical mystery tour of the world or extreme journeys like Grangetown to Washington which will not be popular.  

It's more local issues really Silksworth to ASDA and Ryhope Village to Doxford Park which appear to the 2 big ones more than anything and then the issues with the 61 now being too long and having the same issues which blighted the 2 - that should not be going across Sunderland either imo.

If course there has.
Whether it's one, two or 44 people - there's now changes and additional costs for those people.

I know people living in Washington who have relied on it to get to teaching roles in Sunderland that lie not far off Ryhope Road. 
If they get the bus now, what was one journey is now two buses and a change. And at additional cost. 
A change which isn't exactly ideal with all of the cancellations. The inconvenience doesn't really encourage them to use the bus on a daily basis and buy a longer term ticket either.

Appreciate that's only one example. But as we both know, there will be others.

Operational convenience vs passenger convenience only tends to result in one outcome.

674/675/679 are currently/were tracking on Washington services today - 50/85/28

(09 Feb 2025, 5:02 pm)Michael wrote 674/675/679 are currently/were tracking on Washington services today - 50/85/28

Oh dear, bet that was a bit of a squeeze

(09 Feb 2025, 3:05 pm)Andreos1 wrote If course there has.
Whether it's one, two or 44 people - there's now changes and additional costs for those people.

I know people living in Washington who have relied on it to get to teaching roles in Sunderland that lie not far off Ryhope Road. 
If they get the bus now, what was one journey is now two buses and a change. And at additional cost. 
A change which isn't exactly ideal with all of the cancellations. The inconvenience doesn't really encourage them to use the bus on a daily basis and buy a longer term ticket either.

Appreciate that's only one example. But as we both know, there will be others.

Operational convenience vs passenger convenience only tends to result in one outcome.

Maybe they should bring back the old 242 route which ran Galleries - Shiney Row - East Herrington - Silksworth - Ryhope - Sunderland