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(09 Feb 2025, 9:38 pm)ne14ne1 wrote No, think longer term. Think about creating a better transport system.
With buses back in public control we’d be able to set the spec of vehicles so why hinder our choices when any new or replacement bus stop/shelters could be given an extra 5 minutes thought before installation. It’s not going to cost them.
(10 Feb 2025, 4:47 pm)Adrian wrote I think once we have franchising (and hopefully, eventually public ownership), then I think we can start to take a strategic view of how routes, vehicles and infrastructure all play a part in the passenger journey.
It's been difficult under privatisation, and it inevitably comes down to a chicken/egg situation. Where lots of money has been invested in infrastructure, it ends up underused or not at all, because there's a complete disconnect between operators, the PTE and Local Authorities. Gateshead and Centrelink is a cracking example of that, but there's numerous others, such as the West-bound bus lane on the Felling bypass between Lingey Lane junction and Heworth Interchange.
Anyone who used the Washington services in the 1990s will remember how bad that traffic used to get, yet since the journeys were sped up, frequencies and services were cut. Why would any council want to invest on the basis the operator could change their mind, and more to the point, how would they ever build a business case to seek Govt funding.
(10 Feb 2025, 6:49 pm)Storx wrote I'm not too sure either mind. Our local bodies haven't exactly had the best track record either like mentioning Centrelink there.
The scheme is utterly stupid since the vast majority of people want to be in Newcastle and it effectively bypasses the place and heading towards Gateshead it goes away from the bus station so is actually longer to use.
It's not the only thing either, the Silverlink Bus Lane is another, now totally unused pretty much, not to mention the P&R at The Great Park so you can sit on a bus to Newcastle, or you could use your brain and drive 1/2 mile down the road to The Regent Centre and use a much quicker and frequent Metro service instead.
It's not just old stuff either, since there's recent things like:
- North Shields Interchange - Buses avoiding the thing because it's too far out the way to resource extra buses and would significantly increase the time for punters further down the route with no benefit for those customers either (306 in particular)
(10 Feb 2025, 7:40 pm)Aaron21 wrote What u exactly getting at with the hub. Every bus serves it bar the 306 and so what if it doesn't. The negative round the hub was extremely pathetic to anyone who doesn't live in or around it. It's been a hell of a lot better than sitting on a cold rainy damp day waiting for a bus on Bedford Street to actually being in a shelter place. North Shields has good links with the buses in the hub. Sending the 306 in there would make no sense since the 307 follows the 306 for the most part. It about a 5 minute walk from the top of Alblion road to the hub anyway.
(10 Feb 2025, 7:40 pm)Aaron21 wrote What u exactly getting at with the hub. Every bus serves it bar the 306 and so what if it doesn't. The negative round the hub was extremely pathetic to anyone who doesn't live in or around it. It's been a hell of a lot better than sitting on a cold rainy damp day waiting for a bus on Bedford Street to actually being in a shelter place. North Shields has good links with the buses in the hub. Sending the 306 in there would make no sense since the 307 follows the 306 for the most part. It about a 5 minute walk from the top of Alblion road to the hub anyway.
(10 Feb 2025, 6:49 pm)Storx wrote I'm not too sure either mind. Our local bodies haven't exactly had the best track record either like mentioning Centrelink there.
The scheme is utterly stupid since the vast majority of people want to be in Newcastle and it effectively bypasses the place and heading towards Gateshead it goes away from the bus station so is actually longer to use.
It's not the only thing either, the Silverlink Bus Lane is another, now totally unused pretty much, not to mention the P&R at The Great Park so you can sit on a bus to Newcastle, or you could use your brain and drive 1/2 mile down the road to The Regent Centre and use a much quicker and frequent Metro service instead.
It's not just old stuff either, since there's recent things like:
- North Shields Interchange - Buses avoiding the thing because it's too far out the way to resource extra buses and would significantly increase the time for punters further down the route with no benefit for those customers either (306 in particular)
- Potential Angel P&R - Won't be used if people are expected to use local bus services.
- Rebuilding Gateshead Interchange - Why...?
- Gateshead Flyover - Unacceptable
- Metrocentre P&R - Complete waste of tax payer funds
If we're bringing Teesside into it:
- A fantasy airport
(10 Feb 2025, 9:55 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote The get out clause for an extra PVR is so Arriva can save paying approx 75p per journey for entering the bus interchange at North Shields just like the 317 (when ran by Stagecoach changed to avoid using Wallsend Metro )
We need to change the attitude and go back to the 80s and 90s and create an integrated transport where All Nexus secured Services must service Bus Stations and Metro stations where possible. all commercial buses are "encouraged" or "forced" to visit transport hubs and Metro Stations within reason
We need positivity on making it easier for passengers not local to get to locations.
Q How do you get from Battlehill to Cramlington Hospital by bus?
If we can change the mindset so you get to North tyneside Hub there is a bus that goes directly there...
NOT get a bus to the hub then walk to Shakespeare Street which is only a 5 min walk... (20min self propelling in a wheelchair up hill across 4 roads 3 traffic lights 1 zebra crossing avoid the temp roadworks. Or advise someone who has a white stick how to walk 5 mins up roads they have never done before because they live in Carlisle and are visiting family...
We need buses to be forced to use transport hubs for this reason
(10 Feb 2025, 10:17 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Could add Park Lane to that list too, at least for the Stagecoach stuff. To their credit GNE continue to run most of their services via it whereas Stagecoach only ever did in one direction (can't remember which now!) and then pulled out altogether to save the usage fee. Whether it's tightness from an operator or stupidity from Nexus in charging operators out of the infrastructure, I fear it goes to show doesn't matter whether private or public run, decisions will be made for the benefit of the balance sheet, not the public.
(10 Feb 2025, 10:17 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Could add Park Lane to that list too, at least for the Stagecoach stuff. To their credit GNE continue to run most of their services via it whereas Stagecoach only ever did in one direction (can't remember which now!) and then pulled out altogether to save the usage fee. Whether it's tightness from an operator or stupidity from Nexus in charging operators out of the infrastructure, I fear it goes to show doesn't matter whether private or public run, decisions will be made for the benefit of the balance sheet, not the public.
(10 Feb 2025, 8:37 pm)Storx wrote It's not just the 306 since the 1 avoids it Newcastle bound aswell. It's a complete white elephant if you ask me. If bus routes aren't serving it as it's in the wrong place then it's a failure, especially the two busiest routes in the town.
It's just another we don't know how to get people into the town so let's build a bus station which North East councils are obsessed about. Bishop Auckland is another one going down the route when the reason people aren't going to the town is there's nothing there.
(10 Feb 2025, 6:49 pm)Storx wrote I'm not too sure either mind. Our local bodies haven't exactly had the best track record either like mentioning Centrelink there.
The scheme is utterly stupid since the vast majority of people want to be in Newcastle and it effectively bypasses the place and heading towards Gateshead it goes away from the bus station so is actually longer to use.
(Yesterday, 11:31 am)Adrian wrote The Centrelink scheme was late 90s, so it was a completely different world back then. Metrocentre was booming at the time, and indeed it was a regular feat to see those Centrelink Scanias full to the brim. It's the kind of scheme that we need to see more of, very much in the same way as guided busways have taken off towards Leigh, in Cambridge and in Luton.
(Yesterday, 12:37 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote That's the problem though isn't it. These schemes cost a fortune, take forever and by the time they are implemented the world has moved on and they are huge white elephants which are largely deserted, much like the Felling bypass buslane that was also mentioned previously. Sees a handful of buses an hour (if they are even running) at the expense of a lane of traffic. The last thing we need is more public money wasted on pointless infrastructure that isn't used because things move on.
We see the same with bus technology. Huge fanfare for the hybrids early 2010s - GNE and SNEs knackered within little over a decade. The expense of the gas buses - ditto, bit over 10 years and rip it all out. Largley all replaced by older, diesel vehicles which still work and didnt have half of the upfront public cost (the gas buses at least I am sure were part public funded).
(Yesterday, 3:46 pm)deanmachine wrote Nah, the Felling Bypass bus lane is good. Opening another lane of regular traffic wouldn't do anything. It's used by 5 services constantly, so i'd hardly say it was a waste. Just look at the Western Bypass extension, it's mostly complete and the traffic jams haven't changed in the slightest. One more lane bro.
(Yesterday, 12:37 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote That's the problem though isn't it. These schemes cost a fortune, take forever and by the time they are implemented the world has moved on and they are huge white elephants which are largely deserted, much like the Felling bypass buslane that was also mentioned previously. Sees a handful of buses an hour (if they are even running) at the expense of a lane of traffic. The last thing we need is more public money wasted on pointless infrastructure that isn't used because things move on.
We see the same with bus technology. Huge fanfare for the hybrids early 2010s - GNE and SNEs knackered within little over a decade. The expense of the gas buses - ditto, bit over 10 years and rip it all out. Largley all replaced by older, diesel vehicles which still work and didnt have half of the upfront public cost (the gas buses at least I am sure were part public funded).
(Yesterday, 12:31 pm)LVK 404L wrote None of 6308-6314 out on X20s today. All streetlites bar one decker 6089.
(Yesterday, 11:31 am)Adrian wrote The Centrelink scheme was late 90s, so it was a completely different world back then. Metrocentre was booming at the time, and indeed it was a regular feat to see those Centrelink Scanias full to the brim. It's the kind of scheme that we need to see more of, very much in the same way as guided busways have taken off towards Leigh, in Cambridge and in Luton.
(Yesterday, 4:23 pm)MurdnunoC wrote With the Western By-Pass, I'd argue the congestion continues because the flow of traffic hasn't changed. There are too many junctions between Birtley (A1231) and Swalwell (A694) which means localised traffic tends to impede long-distance traffic, and that hasn't been rectified despite the 'improvements' that have been made. In the 80s (or early 90s), a bypass to the Western By-Pass was actually proposed to segregate the two, but nothing came to fruition. That's probably what should have happened over last ten years or so, but instead the Highways Agency opted for narrower lanes and a 50mph speed restriction. A missed opportunity really.
(Yesterday, 3:46 pm)deanmachine wrote Nah, the Felling Bypass bus lane is good. Opening another lane of regular traffic wouldn't do anything. It's used by 5 services constantly, so i'd hardly say it was a waste. Just look at the Western Bypass extension, it's mostly complete and the traffic jams haven't changed in the slightest. One more lane bro.
(Yesterday, 5:23 pm)Storx wrote See I'm not sure there's much scope for guided busways in the North East since most our traffic issues are in urban areas and there's not space for them. The Metro objectively does everything else.
Centrelink though could've easily just been a bus lane along Askew Road though, it's basically all it does anyway and there's ample space for 3 lanes along there if required similar to the Felling Bypass one which I don't mind. Mind speaking of that area I'd love to see Bensham Road bus gated from Coatsworth Road into Gateshead. There's no reason why cars should be driving along there bar cutting the corner off going via Askew Road. It would massively boost buses in that area from being jammed in traffic.
imo the big problem with that is a lot of the traffic is local traffic heading to Team Valley / Metrocentre / Gateshead / Newcastle / Sunderland (via A1231) or what not. If you bypasses the A1 further West it would be a bit of a white elephant since who's realistically going to be using it? There's only 20k or so vehicles North of Morpeth and that's assuming that they're not local, there's just not much long distance traffic.
Not to mention the tunnel is much quicker for anyone from the A189 corridor in SE Northumberland anyway.
(Yesterday, 5:23 pm)Storx wrote Centrelink though could've easily just been a bus lane along Askew Road though, it's basically all it does anyway and there's ample space for 3 lanes along there if required similar to the Felling Bypass one which I don't mind. Mind speaking of that area I'd love to see Bensham Road bus gated from Coatsworth Road into Gateshead. There's no reason why cars should be driving along there bar cutting the corner off going via Askew Road. It would massively boost buses in that area from being jammed in traffic.
(10 hours ago)Andreos1 wrote You mean the ones who can't use buses to do the journey (not through choice, but because there are no buses as an alternative) , so use the car instead?
Genuinely amazes me that the top brass don't look at those traffic jams or the places we see road investment and think 'oooh, there's some potential customers'.
(9 hours ago)MurdnunoC wrote Centrelink could have easily been a bus link through the remnants of St Cuthbert's Village from Cuthbert Street/School Street to Mulgrave Terrace/Prince Consort Road using the existing access roads, with a new crossroads straight into Gateshead Interchange.
That way, it would have been more accessible to buses coming in from the south west/west towards Gateshead, avoiding both Askew Road and Bensham Road. It probably would have decreased the journey time of the X66 too.
