(07 Apr 2025, 2:18 pm)54APhotography wrote 9 IET vs 12 units (10 180, 2 221) means either a cut overall or as requested 10 car operation to Doncaster and splitting there, which the ORR will review as that would release paths out of King's Cross.

GC operationally can do so as the platforms at Doncaster are capable of such practice.

The benefit is a Doncaster stop for Sunderland trains.

It's more than enough trains, the PVR is 7. It's just the Class 180's are so crap they need a stupid number of spares.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gra...med.284213 - Been discussion of it here.

(07 Apr 2025, 2:35 pm)Storx wrote It's more than enough trains, the PVR is 7. It's just the Class 180's are so crap they need a stupid number of spares.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gra...med.284213 - Been discussion of it here.

The PVR doesn't account for the requested extra trains, which as part of negotiations with the ORR should result in single departures from London with resultant bathing room for additional services. 

It is a good bargaining chip and would provide a Doncaster stop for the North East trains.

Getting these deals done now would put GC in a stronger position in 2027

(07 Apr 2025, 2:55 pm)54APhotography wrote The PVR doesn't account for the requested extra trains, which as part of negotiations with the ORR should result in single departures from London with resultant bathing room for additional services. 

It is a good bargaining chip and would provide a Doncaster stop for the North East trains.

Getting these deals done now would put GC in a stronger position in 2027

There's no extra trains though? It's an extension on the current service provision?

https://news.arriva.co.uk/news/arriva-gr...l-industry

The Clepthorpes stuff is something totally different and there's an option for extra trains if it comes through.

(07 Apr 2025, 4:34 pm)Storx wrote There's no extra trains though? It's an extension on the current service provision?

https://news.arriva.co.uk/news/arriva-gr...l-industry

The Clepthorpes stuff is something totally different and there's an option for extra trains if it comes through.

There are ongoing talks regarding additional services.

(07 Apr 2025, 5:16 pm)54APhotography wrote There are ongoing talks regarding additional services.

Aye that's the Cleethorpes stuff, I do think they're planned to merge onto the Bradford services at Doncaster though so they don't use ECML paths rather than the Sunderland services doing it instead.

Can't imagine LNER being happy with there being more competition between Doncaster and York with the way ORCAT works.

(07 Apr 2025, 2:18 pm)54APhotography wrote 9 IET vs 12 units (10 180, 2 221) means either a cut overall or as requested 10 car operation to Doncaster and splitting there, which the ORR will review as that would release paths out of King's Cross.

GC operationally can do so as the platforms at Doncaster are capable of such practice.

The benefit is a Doncaster stop for Sunderland trains.

(07 Apr 2025, 8:24 pm)Storx wrote Aye that's the Cleethorpes stuff, I do think they're planned to merge onto the Bradford services at Doncaster though so they don't use ECML paths rather than the Sunderland services doing it instead.

Can't imagine LNER being happy with there being more competition between Doncaster and York with the way ORCAT works.

I get Grand Central from Sunderland to York, very frequently. The services at all times of day are rammed. They could honestly do with having even 2 or 2 more trains a day. I am aware that this is not great timetabling/staffing wise. 

Also, weren't there plans to add a stop at Seaham? Is that still happening as it fits with connecting left-behind communities? It is mad that the Seaham - Hartlepool connection doesn't exist by bus and is only hourly (when not canceled) by Northern.

I would definitely support longer trains but most platforms (besides York) are too short for this, and adding Seaham & Doncaster stops (if not more) will be even more sardine packing on the trains.

(17 Apr 2025, 12:25 pm)logidoodah wrote I get Grand Central from Sunderland to York, very frequently. The services at all times of day are rammed. They could honestly do with having even 2 or 2 more trains a day. I am aware that this is not great timetabling/staffing wise. 

Also, weren't there plans to add a stop at Seaham? Is that still happening as it fits with connecting left-behind communities? It is mad that the Seaham - Hartlepool connection doesn't exist by bus and is only hourly (when not canceled) by Northern.

I would definitely support longer trains but most platforms (besides York) are too short for this, and adding Seaham & Doncaster stops (if not more) will be even more sardine packing on the trains.

I agree, even as a first class traveller the single coach is often full, particularly on York race day special offers. Seaham was talked about, perhaps once the new trains arrive and timetables are recast. Six car sets might be better, but I can't see seven. 

Time will inevitably tell, the access grant up to 2038 was today awarded by the ORR, so GC can plan full steam ahead.