https://www.passengertransport.co.uk/202...f-britain/

An interesting read.

(30 May 2025, 1:21 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://www.passengertransport.co.uk/202...f-britain/

An interesting read.

Yep. People are more likely to catch a bus if there is a bus to catch. I remember the arriva 22 getting a lot busier when they doubled the frequency.

I had the joy of catching the 6, today. It used to be 5 per hour and well used. If one got delayed there was usually another not too far behind. Now it's only 3 per hour and the one I wanted was a no show, meaning a wait of over 20 minutes in total for us. Those 40 minute gaps must be hellish when there's students in town. Why would you bother if you had other options?

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/uk-...qHroqXiz-Q

Services stuck in a cycle of decline.

(29 Jun 2025, 12:16 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/uk-...qHroqXiz-Q

Services stuck in a cycle of decline.

The CPT are still deluded I see.

"We do not accept the characterisation of an industry with declining commercial viability. Moving forward, it is crucial that public funding produces outcomes that matter to passengers. More buses to more destinations with quick, reliable journey times should be the primary focus of investment plans."

We don't accept our failings but give us more money!

These articles fail to address the point. Instead, they are designed to beat the industry and further create this perception of public ownership making things better. Here is a clue - the decline is primarily due to the lack of capital funded projects, specifically those designed to speed up bus journeys and/or reduce congestion on key routes. Significant investment in bus lanes and things that make tangible differences to journey times will trigger modal shift and will then instigate operator reaction and competition (as operators wont be allowed to continue with a slow stopper, if an express is viable and achievable - otherwise someone else will do it).

Operators don't risk those things currently, there could be a market for a fast bus between X and Y already, but existing operator or commercial competitors are unable to make it work. The express bus still sits in the same traffic as everything else, gains nothing.

NECA, got over £150million in BSIP funding and have done absolutely jack sh1t in respect of capital projects.

Once the mayor takes control and people realise that the buses are still delayed, still unreliable, but might be painted all the same colour (wooooo), then a choice needs to be made to either help speed them up or introduce more resource (and cost) and slow them down. The latter will not be politically acceptable, so I'm sure the money will be found then, to ensure the point is proven.

Whilst operators clearly do need to take responsibility overall (there are shortcomings, there are risk-adverse decisions being made), but they can only "play the hand they are delt" (so to speak), in respect of highways authorities in the region doing absolutely sod all about congestion on core routes.

Its not an operators' responsibility to fix that, but the only solution in most cases is to slow the bus down (funded usually by a reduction in the frequency, as slowing buses down will by the basic law of passenger elasticity, reduce passenger demand, so increasing costs by adding resource in to maintain status quo doesn't make sense from a commercial point of view).

I know this is an emotive subject on here, but that is the reality, whether agreed with or not.

(29 Jun 2025, 4:50 pm)Superman wrote These articles fail to address the point. Instead, they are designed to beat the industry and further create this perception of public ownership making things better. Here is a clue - the decline is primarily due to the lack of capital funded projects, specifically those designed to speed up bus journeys and/or reduce congestion on key routes. Significant investment in bus lanes and things that make tangible differences to journey times will trigger modal shift and will then instigate operator reaction and competition (as operators wont be allowed to continue with a slow stopper, if an express is viable and achievable - otherwise someone else will do it).

Operators don't risk those things currently, there could be a market for a fast bus between X and Y already, but existing operator or commercial competitors are unable to make it work.  The express bus still sits in the same traffic as everything else, gains nothing.

NECA, got over £150million in BSIP funding and have done absolutely jack sh1t in respect of capital projects.

Once the mayor takes control and people realise that the buses are still delayed, still unreliable, but might be painted all the same colour (wooooo), then a choice needs to be made to either help speed them up or introduce more resource (and cost) and slow them down. The latter will not be politically acceptable, so I'm sure the money will be found then, to ensure the point is proven.

Whilst operators clearly do need to take responsibility overall (there are shortcomings, there are risk-adverse decisions being made), but they can only "play the hand they are delt" (so to speak), in respect of highways authorities in the region doing absolutely sod all about congestion on core routes.

Its not an operators' responsibility to fix that, but the only solution in most cases is to slow the bus down (funded usually by a reduction in the frequency, as slowing buses down will by the basic law of passenger elasticity, reduce passenger demand, so increasing costs by adding resource in to maintain status quo doesn't make sense from a commercial point of view).

I know this is an emotive subject on here, but that is the reality, whether agreed with or not.

Agreed on the capital aspect, but not even sure bus lanes etc are the issue. The simple fact is a lot of journeys shouldn't be on a bus in the first place like journeys such as Alnwick to Newcastle or Bishop Auckland to Newcastle should be train journeys, but the train lines just don't exist and it's where if the government are really serious about modal shift where money needs to be spent.

You just have to look at stuff like the Northumberland Line which is having capacity problems already and loads of people were determined, especially a local Liberal Democrat councillor, that it was going to be a massive failure.

I know people laugh at stuff like the Consett line being completely crackers, but in reality it probably should exist, going via Stanley, Annfield Plain, Leadgate etc. 

The lack of rail / bus integration is a serious problem aswell ie. Crook to Newcastle, should be a train to Durham then a bus from there to Crook. Not a bus and another bus but there's no sensible fares unless you want to pay £10+ for a return which is unreasonable.

In reality though, they'll build a bus station at Bishop Auckland and wonder why no-one uses it because everyone is in their car at Tindale Crescent watching a film, having a meal at McDonalds, while doing their shopping at Sainsbury's after...

The scariest part, is the politicians and local authority officers who make those decisions and predictions, will be the ones who decide what the future bus network will look like.

I'm not surprised the operators are not bothered about franchising any more, given they can set a fixed value, margin and put their feet up. There will be more than enough to provide all the big operators with a slice of the cake, with expected penalties built into the contract price, some operators will actually be better off in a few years time.

Look at Tees Valley. They subsidise bus services that compete with their own DRT arrangement for gods sake. Absolutely deluded and thankfully not interested in franchising.

We, as enthusiasts, slate commercial operators for their lack of adventure or risk, but if the stakeholders who pay your salary demand a return of X% then guess what will be the number one priority? The known will always be preferred over the unknown.

Well Tees Valley has earned its own regular column in Private Eye so transport decisions are probably no more likely to be made entirely to the benefit of the population it serves than anything else there.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1jw266l0l9o

Man who pays out millions to private bus companies refuses to re-regulate services, because it will give private companies millions.

(16 Jul 2025, 7:04 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1jw266l0l9o

Man who pays out millions to private bus companies refuses to re-regulate services, because it will give private companies millions.

Ben is sticking by his manifesto promise of not to increase local taxes or implement a 'Mayor style' tax to pay for such a project. I think that isn't an unreasonable position.

All of the Labour Metro mayors are jumping on franchising, as its hugely emotive and wins votes, but they either aren't being honest about how it works or they are not clever enough to understand the actual costs. I suspect the latter.

A review of the financial position of the Bee Network in Manchester suggests it is currently costing around £100m more per year to operate the exact same network. So guess where that is going? Bus operators are laughing all the way to the bank. DfT grants are currently bailing Manchester out. We all know the government bails London out and always has, but it's the capital city, so it has to look good, so to speak. Multiply that position across the country in 4-6 years time and the DfT/Gov wont be able to help everyone. Franchising will then either be cut back to providing a worse network than now or will need to be funded locally. Neither will be acceptable.

(19 Jul 2025, 10:21 am)Superman wrote Ben is sticking by his manifesto promise of not to increase local taxes or implement a 'Mayor style' tax to pay for such a project. I think that isn't an unreasonable position.

All of the Labour Metro mayors are jumping on franchising, as its hugely emotive and wins votes, but they either aren't being honest about how it works or they are not clever enough to understand the actual costs. I suspect the latter.

A review of the financial position of the Bee Network in Manchester suggests it is currently costing around £100m more per year to operate the exact same network. So guess where that is going? Bus operators are laughing all the way to the bank. DfT grants are currently bailing Manchester out. We all know the government bails London out and always has, but it's the capital city, so it has to look good, so to speak. Multiply that position across the country in 4-6 years time and the DfT/Gov wont be able to help everyone. Franchising will then either be cut back to providing a worse network than now or will need to be funded locally. Neither will be acceptable.

I think the solution is simple really.  The local authorities own the routes but instead of the bus companies getting paid to operate services they pay the local authority to operate routes.  The company then keeps any profits they make.   Think of it as similar to sport or movie rights what TV channels pay for you can give them profitable routes like the 36, but to get the 36 they have to operate less profitable routes as well.  That’s just one idea, it would obviously need to be done by government but I think that’s one solution.  Yes the big companies like Stagecoach and Go North east might kick up a fuss to try get things to change but they would likely go along with it to stop smaller companies getting a foothold.

Here's a weird but annoying one that I've had feedback through Colleague Insight groups this week

The X39 is now running ahead of schedule due to light summer holiday traffic - this means it's about 5 mins early (longer in some cases)

The bus is either stopping at TyneMet College or the stop near the Walls End Pub to hold time - which seems sensible in a normal world - but when Cobalt is one stop away - you're not going to pick up any passengers and you're terminating in Cobalt - just comes across as incredibly annoying to commuters who'd much rather get into the office and settle at their desks

(23 Jul 2025, 2:38 pm)col87 wrote I think the solution is simple really.  The local authorities own the routes but instead of the bus companies getting paid to operate services they pay the local authority to operate routes.  The company then keeps any profits they make.   Think of it as similar to sport or movie rights what TV channels pay for you can give them profitable routes like the 36, but to get the 36 they have to operate less profitable routes as well.  That’s just one idea, it would obviously need to be done by government but I think that’s one solution.  Yes the big companies like Stagecoach and Go North east might kick up a fuss to try get things to change but they would likely go along with it to stop smaller companies getting a foothold.

The better way to do it is have a state owned company bidding for the same contracts. You can then set how much you want to pay by putting in a bid for your own work, if someone can beat it then it's win as the tax payer is better off, if not then the public company runs it instead of the private operators taking the piss.

It's the best of both worlds and forces the public owned company to get it's act together rather than being complacant. If it was allowed, there's technically nothing stopping them taking stuff on abroad either like SNCF, DB Regio and the likes do.

It's what Norway does pretty much.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c70xjj8746wo

120 quid a month seems alot, especially with the fare cap.

(Yesterday, 8:28 am)Rob44 wrote https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c70xjj8746wo

120 quid a month seems alot, especially with the fare cap.

Maybe there's two or three different buses to complete the journey? 

I thought this one was interesting

 
Maisy, has a disability bus pass because of her autism, meaning she pays less for travel than her friends. However, she still spends £8 a day on getting to college as her free travel allowance only kicks in after 09:30, half an hour after she needs to be there.

 

I'd hazard a guess there was a cheaper option for both. But getting and finding the correct information, isn't always the easiest. 
.

(Yesterday, 9:23 am)Andreos1 wrote Maybe there's two or three different buses to complete the journey? 

I thought this one was interesting
 

I'd hazard a guess there was a cheaper option for both. But getting and finding the correct information, isn't always the easiest. 
.

Yes that was my thought as well but what about day or weekly tickets? I've heard GNE drivers tell punters cheaper option so why not down there if traveling regularly. 
Some staff where I work have a consessionary pass but they manage to travel to work with it before 930. Maybe this person should look into that too.

Or maybe free travel for all as if this comes in I would hate to have just turned 23!

(Yesterday, 10:05 am)Rob44 wrote Yes that was my thought as well but what about day or weekly tickets? I've heard GNE drivers tell punters cheaper option so why not down there if traveling regularly. 
Some staff where I work have a consessionary pass but they manage to travel to work with it before 930. Maybe this person should look into that too.

Or maybe free travel for all as if this comes in I would hate to have just turned 23!

Just thinking of different scenarios and if they get on a bus, ask for a £2.50 single (after having had it drummed in to them by the media), then they probably do think it's the cheapest option.

I do think a driver showing an interest and offering different solutions, is fantastic. 
Unfortunately, not all of them do. 

Not everyone has the knowhow, ability or common sense to be able to research the multitude of ticket options available to them unfortunately. 
The operator needs to start at the top and ensure everyone knows it's more than just £2.50 singles.

(Yesterday, 8:28 am)Rob44 wrote https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c70xjj8746wo

120 quid a month seems alot, especially with the fare cap.

£6 a day, 20 days a month. It's easy to do that mind. Remember it's £3 a journey now in most areas.

(Yesterday, 10:05 am)Rob44 wrote Yes that was my thought as well but what about day or weekly tickets? I've heard GNE drivers tell punters cheaper option so why not down there if traveling regularly. 
Some staff where I work have a consessionary pass but they manage to travel to work with it before 930. Maybe this person should look into that too.

Or maybe free travel for all as if this comes in I would hate to have just turned 23!

Round here it's 50p with a concessionary pass before 9:30 but that's not universal, hence the phenomenon of "twirlies".

(Yesterday, 6:47 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Round here it's 50p with a concessionary pass before 9:30 but that's not universal, hence the phenomenon of "twirlies".

Why did nexus scrap that, i assume you live in County Durham.

(Yesterday, 11:52 am)Andreos1 wrote Just thinking of different scenarios and if they get on a bus, ask for a £2.50 single (after having had it drummed in to them by the media), then they probably do think it's the cheapest option.

I do think a driver showing an interest and offering different solutions, is fantastic. 
Unfortunately, not all of them do. 

Not everyone has the knowhow, ability or common sense to be able to research the multitude of ticket options available to them unfortunately. 
The operator needs to start at the top and ensure everyone knows it's more than just £2.50 singles.

And of course, just like in our neck of the woods, there will be folk who live relatively close to their school/college/university but have to rely on two buses because a direct link doesn't exist. 

It would be like someone living in Lobley Hill and working at Sainsbury's at the Valley. Should be a straightforward, relatively cheap journey but are forced to change at Maingate if they want to make it and are charged double for the priviledge.

(Yesterday, 6:55 pm)MurdnunoC wrote And of course, just like in our neck of the woods, there will be folk who live relatively close to their school/college/university but have to rely on two buses because a direct link doesn't exist. 

It would be like someone living in Lobley Hill and working at Sainsbury's at the Valley. Should be a straightforward, relatively cheap journey but are forced to change at Maingate if they want to make it and are charged double for the priviledge.

I worked at the south of Kingsway a while back. 
A colleague lived on Saltwell Road. She could see the workplace from her upstairs window.

Two buses. Or a conveluted walk. 
Utterly bonkers.

(Yesterday, 6:50 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Why did nexus scrap that, i assume you live in County Durham.

Apparently, if you work or are in college for 15 hours or more a week you can apply for an "all day" concessionary pass but I can't find out more than is visible on this page because I am indeed in County Durham so can't sign in

Concessionary Travel Pass for people with disabilities | nexus.org.uk https://share.google/icLdYAfkxvkuPl6Af

(Yesterday, 11:08 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Apparently, if you work or are in college for 15 hours or more a week you can apply for an "all day" concessionary pass but I can't find out more than is visible on this page because I am indeed in County Durham so can't sign in

Concessionary Travel Pass for people with disabilities | nexus.org.uk https://share.google/icLdYAfkxvkuPl6Af

You can, but you need an official letter proving it is actually 15+ hours. 
Also, when did nexus stop offering the 50p before 9.30 fare.