(Yesterday, 8:45 pm)Economic505 wrote For a while, npower helped pay for services 921, 922 and 923. Obviously npower is long gone , having been merged into EON UK, after EON Germany and RWE did an asset swap. Just Eat took over the building but I believe they are moving out too.

That's the ones. Knew it was a 9xx, but couldn't remember them for the life of me. 

Aye, saw something a few weeks back about the move. 
They've only been there 5 years or so.

(Yesterday, 4:18 pm)Andreos1 wrote I personally thought the Chester Road corridor was over-served by routes basically following each other and very little in the way of actual destinations. 

If you live anywhere other than Sunderland City Centre or Shiney Row, there's nothing to attract you to make that modal switch to/from the hospital.

Why bother getting 2 buses and the inevitable hike from one part of Park Lane to another (or worse, another part of the city centre), when you can use the car, get a taxi or utilise patient transport?

Or, in the case of the Pennywell offering - those living there, have a better choice of routes/destinations with SNE. 

I'd have thought all the forecasting they did in preparation, would have identified those issues myself mind.

Chester Road Is the Gosforth High Street argument. It looks over subscribed with buses, but it isn't as those buses are using the quickest route in to Sunderland from various places which cannot be connected themselves in a reasonable manner.

Everyone wants a direct link to the hospital *just incase*. Most people don't go to hospital on a regular basis to justify direct links from everywhere. The most important bus journeys to/from Hospitals are for workers - not patients or visitors. Operators should concentrate on that, for example, I don't see why they can't divert the 32 via the Hospital at shift change times

(Yesterday, 9:15 pm)DodgepotMcDougal wrote Chester Road Is the Gosforth High Street argument. It looks over subscribed with buses, but it isn't as those buses are using the quickest route in to Sunderland from various places which cannot be connected themselves in a reasonable manner.

Everyone wants a direct link to the hospital *just incase*. Most people don't go to hospital on a regular basis to justify direct links from everywhere. The most important bus journeys to/from Hospitals are for workers - not patients or visitors. Operators should concentrate on that, for example, I don't see why they can't divert the 32 via the Hospital at shift change times

The 32 goes via the hospital doesn't it? Unless it's changed very recently.

Personally I don't get why they don't send the 33 via the hospital and formally merge it with the 63. They're interworking anyway so there's no issues from that front and the hospital issue is resolved. Stagecoach have pulled out of Silksworth so the extra time doesn't matter nowadays. 

Might aswell swap the routes back around in the Grangetown area aswell like it was for years with the 2/2A/39/61 so people on Murton aren't going on a tour around the world to Sunderland and restores the Ryhope to Doxford Park links. 

Fixes the common complaints on here really. 

For the other half of the 62 who knows, does it even need to exist with the Stagecoach 20?

(Yesterday, 4:04 pm)Andreos1 wrote And that whacky pizza brand. 

But they apparently stopped it as there wasn't enough through traffic to sustain it. 
Hence the diversion via Rainton Bridge in an effort to boost numbers.

It didn't really work when it was under the 'Pronto' brand at least, not much through traffic from the Bishop end and the consequence of its existence was only one direct Bishop to Newcastle bus an hour with the X21, was certainly a much better use of resources to restore the Bishop to Newcastle link to half hourly on the X21.

(Yesterday, 9:15 pm)DodgepotMcDougal wrote Chester Road Is the Gosforth High Street argument. It looks over subscribed with buses, but it isn't as those buses are using the quickest route in to Sunderland from various places which cannot be connected themselves in a reasonable manner.

Everyone wants a direct link to the hospital *just incase*. Most people don't go to hospital on a regular basis to justify direct links from everywhere. The most important bus journeys to/from Hospitals are for workers - not patients or visitors. Operators should concentrate on that, for example, I don't see why they can't divert the 32 via the Hospital at shift change times

But they aren't really coming from various places though are they? 
Look at the current GNE services and you will see they're all pretty much going to/from the same place. 

And I'm not sure everyone wants a direct link from everywhere either. 

Ultimately, if you don't live on the Chester Road corridor, you're not going to get a bus to the hospital because of the chew on.


Patient, visitor or employee.

(11 hours ago)Andreos1 wrote But they aren't really coming from various places though are they? 
Look at the current GNE services and you will see they're all pretty much going to/from the same place. 

And I'm not sure everyone wants a direct link from everywhere either. 

Ultimately, if you don't live on the Chester Road corridor, you're not going to get a bus to the hospital because of the chew on.


Patient, visitor or employee.

I get exactly what you mean, another good example, is West Chirton and Meadow Well, hasn't had a direct Bus to NT General since the loss of the 85/86 and later the W3, most people just get a taxi now if they dont drive, either that or its a fart on to the Cobalt, or Norham Road North, the walk (if able) to New York, then the 309, or into Shields then the 317

(11 hours ago)Andreos1 wrote But they aren't really coming from various places though are they? 
Look at the current GNE services and you will see they're all pretty much going to/from the same place. 

And I'm not sure everyone wants a direct link from everywhere either. 

Ultimately, if you don't live on the Chester Road corridor, you're not going to get a bus to the hospital because of the chew on.


Patient, visitor or employee.

I mean...that just isn't true. The 78 comes from Chester and 2 comes from Washington, they both use Chester Road as it's the quickest route, but you would never have the 78 running via Washington just to save two buses and hour running down Chester Road as that would just be stupid and you'd lose customers overall due to the journey length.

Ultimately you're not going to get a bus to Chester Road for the hospital as in all likelihood you won't need to go. That's just a fact. I'd boil down the numbers if I could be bothered but I think it works out at around 40 over 65s per day without access to a car from the whole of Sunderland that may have an appointment at the hospital each weekday. That is a tiny number no matter who runs the bus or where they go. Which is why it's better to focus on shift workers, as they could be regular bus users. Visitors and outpatients are a tiny, almost insignificant number.

(9 hours ago)DodgepotMcDougal wrote I mean...that just isn't true. The 78 comes from Chester and 2 comes from Washington, they both use Chester Road as it's the quickest route, but you would never have the 78 running via Washington just to save two buses and hour running down Chester Road as that would just be stupid and you'd lose customers overall due to the journey length.

Ultimately you're not going to get a bus to Chester Road for the hospital as in all likelihood you won't need to go. That's just a fact. I'd boil down the numbers if I could be bothered but I think it works out at around 40 over 65s per day without access to a car from the whole of Sunderland that may have an appointment at the hospital each weekday. That is a tiny number no matter who runs the bus or where they go. Which is why it's better to focus on shift workers, as they could be regular bus users. Visitors and outpatients are a tiny, almost insignificant number.

The 78 follows the 2 from Shiney Row. 
For the next 4.5 miles, they follow each other to the hospital. 
They then follow each other again for the next 1.5 miles. 

You've got the Pennywell service dropping in and following the 2 and 78.
Along with the 32 which follows the same route. 

The 2 and 78 terminate in the same place. 
The Pennywell services then essentially follow each other and the 32 joins the convoy, before heading somewhere slightly different. But all on the south side of the river. 

They may all head along Chester Road because it's the quickest route to Sunderland. But we all know Sunderland is dead. Nobody goes there. 
Plenty buses do though.
So if the city centre is dead, what can bus operators do to encourage people to use the bus to other key destinations? Keep things as is? Have a convoy following each other for 7 miles or do they look at how to improve accessibility to key locations on the route?

You state patients won't use buses, but staff will. 
Any idea what proportion of staff live on the route (or within 1 mile) of the convoy of buses following each other along the quickest route in to Sunderland? 

Smaller than the number of over 65s who don't have access to a car in Sunderland?

(9 hours ago)Andreos1 wrote The 78 follows the 2 from Shiney Row. 
For the next 4.5 miles, they follow each other to the hospital. 
They then follow each other again for the next 1.5 miles. 

You've got the Pennywell service dropping in and following the 2 and 78.
Along with the 32 which follows the same route. 

The 2 and 78 terminate in the same place. 
The Pennywell services then essentially follow each other and the 32 joins the convoy, before heading somewhere slightly different. But all on the south side of the river. 

They may all head along Chester Road because it's the quickest route to Sunderland. But we all know Sunderland is dead. Nobody goes there. 
Plenty buses do though.
So if the city centre is dead, what can bus operators do to encourage people to use the bus to other key destinations? Keep things as is? Have a convoy following each other for 7 miles or do they look at how to improve accessibility to key locations on the route?

You state patients won't use buses, but staff will. 
Any idea what proportion of staff live on the route (or within 1 mile) of the convoy of buses following each other along the quickest route in to Sunderland? 

Smaller than the number of over 65s who don't have access to a car in Sunderland?

Let's be honest, it's another issue with multiple operators and there not being enough demand and one of those being much better than the other (and it isn't GoNorthEast here). 

Stagecoach control that corridor now imo with the 16 and 20 which are both much superior services with the 8 filling the gaps. 

Personally I don't understand why the 62 doesn't run through Pennywell and continue somewhere West. Who knows, maybe people in Pennywell would like to go somewhere else than Sunderland with their 11 buses an hour going to there via nothing bar the hospital and you can up the frequency for another area. It's not like there's not enough areas around Shiney Row which next to zero bus service right now - maybe they'd like a link to a hospital and just make sure it goes via Fencehouses while we're at it or on a less joking reply, maybe it's an answer to the 79 running to nowhere.

(8 hours ago)Storx wrote Let's be honest, it's another issue with multiple operators and there not being enough demand and one of those being much better than the other (and it isn't GoNorthEast here). 

Stagecoach control that corridor now imo with the 16 and 20 which are both much superior services with the 8 filling the gaps. 

Personally I don't understand why the 62 doesn't run through Pennywell and continue somewhere West. Who knows, maybe people in Pennywell would like to go somewhere else than Sunderland with their 11 buses an hour going to there via nothing bar the hospital and you can up the frequency for another area. It's not like there's not enough areas around Shiney Row which next to zero bus service right now - maybe they'd like a link to a hospital and just make sure it goes via Fencehouses while we're at it or on a less joking reply, maybe it's an answer to the 79 running to nowhere. 

Ironically, the 79 (partially) fills the gaps left over when GNE got rid of the 164.
The 164 of course, passed the hospital and went to Seaburn. 
Diverging away from the 7mile convoy, but offering something slightly different for all those employees living on the north side of the river.

(8 hours ago)Andreos1 wrote Ironically, the 79 (partially) fills the gaps left over when GNE got rid of the 164.
The 164 of course, passed the hospital and went to Seaburn. 
Diverging away from the 7mile convoy, but offering something slightly different for all those employees living on the north side of the river.

Aye must admit I do prefer cross city routes, just makes more sense especially when the city is a place, which like you said, people don't really want to go to anymore. Okay there might not be much demand, but if both buses are running anyway - does it really matter anyway, unless the corridor is a real bottleneck of course. 

An obvious one to interwork something with would be the 9 imo, considering the buses are sitting around for 25+ minutes every round trip doing nothing. Not very 'productive' use of drivers which was a buzzword being thrown round a few month back.

It's okay I'm sure the councils will have their fix and built some more white elephant bus stations like North Shields and soon to be Bishop Auckland because a bus station is the key to drive people into a town though...?

(8 hours ago)Storx wrote Aye must admit I do prefer cross city routes, just makes more sense especially when the city is a place, which like you said, people don't really want to go to anymore. Okay there might not be much demand, but if both buses are running anyway - does it really matter anyway, unless the corridor is a real bottleneck of course. 

An obvious one to interwork something with would be the 9 imo, considering the buses are sitting around for 25+ minutes every round trip doing nothing. Not very 'productive' use of drivers which was a buzzword being thrown round a few month back.

It's okay I'm sure the councils will have their fix and built some more white elephant bus stations like North Shields and soon to be Bishop Auckland because a bus station is the key to drive people into a town though...?

I can see the appeal of cross-city routes too, but they need to be done right.

Look at the 62A. 45 mins end to end and half an hour for someone getting to/from work at the hospital from Moorside.
They could get the 4, walk along Barnes Park Road and still be there at work before the 62A gets anywhere near the hospital.

They're both cross-city services. Just done slightly 'differently'.

(9 hours ago)Andreos1 wrote The 78 follows the 2 from Shiney Row. 
For the next 4.5 miles, they follow each other to the hospital. 
They then follow each other again for the next 1.5 miles. 

You've got the Pennywell service dropping in and following the 2 and 78.
Along with the 32 which follows the same route. 

The 2 and 78 terminate in the same place. 
The Pennywell services then essentially follow each other and the 32 joins the convoy, before heading somewhere slightly different. But all on the south side of the river. 

They may all head along Chester Road because it's the quickest route to Sunderland. But we all know Sunderland is dead. Nobody goes there. 
Plenty buses do though.
So if the city centre is dead, what can bus operators do to encourage people to use the bus to other key destinations? Keep things as is? Have a convoy following each other for 7 miles or do they look at how to improve accessibility to key locations on the route?

You state patients won't use buses, but staff will. 
Any idea what proportion of staff live on the route (or within 1 mile) of the convoy of buses following each other along the quickest route in to Sunderland? 

Smaller than the number of over 65s who don't have access to a car in Sunderland?

I don't want to sound petty, but the 32 doesn't "join the convoy", it links the hospital with the coalfields. Unless you want to get rid of that as you don't like buses going down Chester Road

Anecdotally, Sunderland may he "dead", but it isn't and thousands of people are in the centre each day. Chester Road is the quickest route in to Sunderland from the west so it makes sense for buses to use it. I don't see how this is a complicated thing?

I've got no idea how many workers live within a mile of a route and that's that's the point in trying to make. It's obvious to anybody the only people that regularly travel to hospital....are the people that work there. So it makes sense for services that wouldn't usually go via the Hospital to do so at shift change times.

(8 hours ago)Andreos1 wrote I can see the appeal of cross-city routes too, but they need to be done right.

Look at the 62A. 45 mins end to end and half an hour for someone getting to/from work at the hospital from Moorside.
They could get the 4, walk along Barnes Park Road and still be there at work before the 62A gets anywhere near the hospital.

They're both cross-city services. Just done slightly 'differently'.

Aye totally agreed, the 62 is just a weird route, in general. It's like the long route serving nothing on the way which isn't served by other services. It's no surprise it's struggling really. 

In an ideal world, if you didn't want to change the routing it'd be better to join the thing together as one big loop. Who knows people from Pennywell etc might want to go to Doxford Park etc, it's arguably better than the horse shoe right now. 

Would cover parts of the 18 aswell since getting around Sunderland is a nightmare with doubling back via the centre.

It's not like it's an extension which would take 10 vehicles either if it was something like:


and none of the people on the blue extension have a hospital link either.

(8 hours ago)DodgepotMcDougal wrote I've got no idea how many workers live within a mile of a route and that's that's the point in trying to make. It's obvious to anybody the only people that regularly travel to hospital....are the people that work there. So it makes sense for  services that wouldn't usually go via the Hospital to do so at shift change times.

Problem with that being it leaves whatever route they would usually be serving (when not diverted via the hospital) unserved during those times, which likely creates problems for people on or needing that route.  Closest we see to this (I think) is the X24A leaving gaps meaning you cant get from the Grindon/Hastings Hill area of Chester Road to Newcastle for four hours after 1530ish, though due to passenger flows on how that service runs, it'd probably be fairly dead runs in that direction at that time anyway.  Not necessarily the case for other routes.

---

(8 hours ago)Andreos1 wrote Look at the 62A. 45 mins end to end and half an hour for someone getting to/from work at the hospital from Moorside.
They could get the 4, walk along Barnes Park Road and still be there at work before the 62A gets anywhere near the hospital.

Had a quick look at this on google and not sure you're right there mind.  From Moorside 8ish minute walk to get the stop for the 4, 16 mins to the Barnes, 19 mins walk along to the hospital = not quicker.  Though google reckons a change of buses onto the 32 is the answer, which is ironic given the argument that it's not useful!

A lot of assumptions about people not wanting to go to Sunderland . How wrong people can be.

(7 hours ago)Storx wrote Aye totally agreed, the 62 is just a weird route, in general. It's like the long route serving nothing on the way which isn't served by other services. It's no surprise it's struggling really. 

In an ideal world, if you didn't want to change the routing it'd be better to join the thing together as one big loop. Who knows people from Pennywell etc might want to go to Doxford Park etc, it's arguably better than the horse shoe right now. 

Did it used to operate as a loop when it was the 29/39 or at one point was it the 26/29?  So many changes to that set up I've lost track.

(7 hours ago)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Did it used to operate as a loop when it was the 29/39 or at one point was it the 26/29?  So many changes to that set up I've lost track.

Honestly couldn't tell you either, I've lost track around there aswell. Feels like every 6 months the routes are changed and it's been going on for years, as an understatement. Never in a positive way either, may I add.

(7 hours ago)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Did it used to operate as a loop when it was the 29/39 or at one point was it the 26/29?  So many changes to that set up I've lost track.

The 139/140?

Park Lane - Chester Road - Barnes Park - Durham Road - East Herrington- Moorside - Doxford International - Moorside - Doxford Park Morrisons - Tunstall - Tunstall Bank - Ryhope Village - Grangetown - Southmoor School - Toward Road - City Centre - Park Lane

(5 hours ago)morritt89 wrote The 139/140?

Park Lane - Chester Road - Barnes Park - Durham Road - East Herrington- Moorside - Doxford International - Moorside - Doxford Park Morrisons - Tunstall - Tunstall Bank - Ryhope Village - Grangetown - Southmoor School - Toward Road - City Centre - Park Lane

Yeah I knew about the 139/140 was thinking more recent like the Doxford Clipper and whatever came after it, though there were multiple incarnations I think.

(8 hours ago)DodgepotMcDougal wrote I don't want to sound petty, but the 32 doesn't "join the convoy", it links the hospital with the coalfields. Unless you want to get rid of that as you don't like buses going down Chester Road

Anecdotally, Sunderland may he "dead", but it isn't and thousands of people are in the centre each day. Chester Road is the quickest route in to Sunderland from the west so it makes sense for buses to use it. I don't see how this is a complicated thing?

I've got no idea how many workers live within a mile of a route and that's that's the point in trying to make. It's obvious to anybody the only people that regularly travel to hospital....are the people that work there. So it makes sense for  services that wouldn't usually go via the Hospital to do so at shift change times.

The 32 doesn't join the convoy, but goes down Chester Road...
Aye...

And the point I'm making, is that the reach of people living within a mile of the Chester Road corridor, limits the number of people using the bus to get to/from the hospital.
Regardless of whether they work there, are visiting someone or are a patient of one sort or another.

If an operator predicted, forecast and anticipated greater numbers than they're getting, then I'd hope an analysis can be carried out to find out why the outcome they hoped for, wasn't achieved. 

I'd hazard a guess the outcome would be that there wasn't enough passengers living on the route of the 2, 78, 32, 62 etc. 
Or prepared to get a connecting service, ahead of using the 2, 78, 32, 62 etc.

---

(8 hours ago)DodgepotMcDougal wrote I don't want to sound petty, but the 32 doesn't "join the convoy", it links the hospital with the coalfields. Unless you want to get rid of that as you don't like buses going down Chester Road

Anecdotally, Sunderland may he "dead", but it isn't and thousands of people are in the centre each day. Chester Road is the quickest route in to Sunderland from the west so it makes sense for buses to use it. I don't see how this is a complicated thing?

I've got no idea how many workers live within a mile of a route and that's that's the point in trying to make. It's obvious to anybody the only people that regularly travel to hospital....are the people that work there. So it makes sense for  services that wouldn't usually go via the Hospital to do so at shift change times.

The 32 doesn't join the convoy, but goes down Chester Road...
Aye...

And the point I'm making, is that the reach of people living within a mile of the Chester Road corridor, limits the number of people using the bus to get to/from the hospital.
Regardless of whether they work there, are visiting someone or are a patient of one sort or another.

If an operator predicted, forecast and anticipated greater numbers than they're getting, then I'd hope an analysis can be carried out to find out why the outcome they hoped for, wasn't achieved. 

I'd hazard a guess the outcome would be that there wasn't enough passengers living on the route of the 2, 78, 32, 62 etc. 
Or prepared to get a connecting service, ahead of using the 2, 78, 32, 62 etc.

(7 hours ago)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Problem with that being it leaves whatever route they would usually be serving (when not diverted via the hospital) unserved during those times, which likely creates problems for people on or needing that route.  Closest we see to this (I think) is the X24A leaving gaps meaning you cant get from the Grindon/Hastings Hill area of Chester Road to Newcastle for four hours after 1530ish, though due to passenger flows on how that service runs, it'd probably be fairly dead runs in that direction at that time anyway.  Not necessarily the case for other routes.

---

Had a quick look at this on google and not sure you're right there mind.  From Moorside 8ish minute walk to get the stop for the 4, 16 mins to the Barnes, 19 mins walk along to the hospital = not quicker.  Though google reckons a change of buses onto the 32 is the answer, which is ironic given the argument that it's not useful!

I get different results. 
16mins from Barnes to Chester Wing. 
6 mins walk from Morpeth Drive to Bolwyn Close.
13mins on the 4.

Looks like the initial maths I did in my head was a little off.

Wasn't there a 36/36C at one point