I asked Ray on one of his pictures of them on flickr..

Ray Parnaby Bus Stop Photos 19 minutes ago | reply
From memory, these will be going back to London United (RATP Group). They're replaced by NB4Ls and will be redeployed on other routes and release older TA class ;-D.

Unusual to see them up at Thorntons for "in service" refurbs as these are normally done by Hants & Dorset trim for most companies... But Thorntons do a lot of work on ex London stock so for them to get a piece of the London refurbs whilst in service too is nice, after all the more work the better.

(23 Mar 2014, 8:52 pm)tyresmoke wrote Unusual to see them up at Thorntons for "in service" refurbs as these are normally done by Hants & Dorset trim for most companies... But Thorntons do a lot of work on ex London stock so for them to get a piece of the London refurbs whilst in service too is nice, after all the more work the better.

It seems a canny hike to get a stack of them all the way up here, to send them all the way back down south again.
The price must have been very competitive, just to cover the fuel costs alone - nevermind staff wages, accommodation when dropping off/picking up etc.

(23 Mar 2014, 8:38 pm)Michael wrote I asked Ray on one of his pictures of them on flickr..

Ray Parnaby Bus Stop Photos 19 minutes ago | reply
From memory, these will be going back to London United (RATP Group). They're replaced by NB4Ls and will be redeployed on other routes and release older TA class ;-D.

Bumped into Ray this morning in Durham, and he confirmed the above about the Omnicity Double Deckers.

(16 Mar 2014, 1:38 pm)Robert wrote I'd take the X66 off that list. They have just spent loads of money on rebranding the buses so will want that to last. Due to it been complex it is obviously not a Temp brand.

I wonder what the operating costs of those Mercedes Citaro are like? Poor fuel efficency, increased driver costs and unreliablity, all spring to mind. Is it really worth clinging onto them? The same could be said about the Solar Fusion on the X40 too.

(18 Mar 2014, 6:36 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote What GNE could do next yeat is this to displace the B7TL Gemini 1's to a more behind the scenes role:

- Acquire a B5TL demo for the X1 for one month and if successful, then do the following:

- Order 7 B5TL's to replace 6001 to 6007.
- 6001 to 6003 would go to CLS for the Angel.
- 6004 would be a spare for the TTX.
- 6005 would be a spare for the X1.
- 6006 would be a spare for the Angel with 3962 or 65 acting as a push comes to shove role.
- 6007 would be a spare for the TEN with 3941 or 42 acting as a push comes to shove role.

What about the X21? pdiddy will tell you how unreliable the current vehicles are.

(26 Mar 2014, 8:24 am)Rob wrote I wonder what the operating costs of those Mercedes Citaro are like? Poor fuel efficency, increased driver costs and unreliablity, all spring to mind. Is it really worth clinging onto them? The same could be said about the Solar Fusion on the X40 too.

5.5 MPG for the Citaro, and about 6.5 mpg for the Solar Fusion, so the Solar is probably more cost effective.

I would convert both routes to double deck.

(26 Mar 2014, 8:43 am)Scott wrote 5.5 MPG for the Citaro, and about 6.5 mpg for the Solar Fusion, so the Solar is probably more cost effective.

I would convert both routes to double deck.

Reasoning? I would personally assume standard single decked vehicles would be appropriate. Not to mention that the X66 must use single decked vehicles due to a low bridge, as has previously been discussed on this forum.

(26 Mar 2014, 9:06 am)Rob wrote Reasoning? I would personally assume standard single decked vehicles would be appropriate. Not to mention that the X66 must use single decked vehicles due to a low bridge, as has previously been discussed on this forum.

That is true Rob, but on the flip side does the X66 have to use the Centrlink coming to/from Gateshead, as in recent weeks when I have used the Service it has went via A184 Askew Road in both Directions, but a few Drivers have went via Centrelink heading towards Gateshead.

(26 Mar 2014, 9:06 am)Rob wrote Reasoning? I would personally assume standard single decked vehicles would be appropriate. Not to mention that the X66 must use single decked vehicles due to a low bridge, as has previously been discussed on this forum.

In terms of Centrelink, is there an agreement that stipulates that GNE must use it? Or at least use it for a proportion of journies?

(26 Mar 2014, 9:06 am)Rob wrote Reasoning? I would personally assume standard single decked vehicles would be appropriate. Not to mention that the X66 must use single decked vehicles due to a low bridge, as has previously been discussed on this forum.

The low bridge is on the 'Centrelink' busway on Gateshead Quayside. Not all X66 journey apear to go that way. (I use the 10 that goes on part of the road).

(28 Mar 2014, 8:56 am)Scott wrote The low bridge is on the 'Centrelink' busway on Gateshead Quayside. Not all X66 journey apear to go that way. (I use the 10 that goes on part of the road).

The 10 goes down the bottom to the Swing Bridge and then across it. The X66 would have to go up to The Sage and via Gateshead High Street to get to Gateshead using that route, which could add considerable time to the journey in comparison to the current route via the Centrelink (towards Gateshead). The journey towards the Metrocentre would be unaffected if double-deck buses were to be used.

(28 Mar 2014, 11:23 am)BJ10VUS wrote The 10 goes down the bottom to the Swing Bridge and then across it. The X66 would have to go up to The Sage and via Gateshead High Street to get to Gateshead using that route, which could add considerable time to the journey in comparison to the current route via the Centrelink (towards Gateshead). The journey towards the Metrocentre would be unaffected if double-deck buses were to be used.

The X66 is meant to use the Centrelink in both directions (and did previously) but the closure of West St (?), Gateshead, meant that the X66 was diverted via Askew Road.

When West St re-opened, a riverbank collapsed on the Centrelink so Go North East had to continue the diversion. A temporary path has now been set up, so the X66 should resume its usual route via Centrelink in both directions again (and indeed a number of drivers are using this route already).

Double decked vehicles are not only unsuitable for this reason, but because steps are harder to climb for the amount of elderly passengers that do use the X66.

(28 Mar 2014, 11:59 am)Dan wrote The X66 is meant to use the Centrelink in both directions (and did previously) but the closure of West St (?), Gateshead, meant that the X66 was diverted via Askew Road.

When West St re-opened, a riverbank collapsed on the Centrelink so Go North East had to continue the diversion. A temporary path has now been set up, so the X66 should resume its usual route via Centrelink in both directions again (and indeed a number of drivers are using this route already).

Double decked vehicles are not only unsuitable for this reason, but because steps are harder to climb for the amount of elderly passengers that do use the X66.

I agree but don't most elderly people sit downstairs? Been completely honest I don't think it is any difference between any other route that uses deckers other than its an express. Beside this though, it is always nice to let everybody choose where they sit and not to confine them to a certain area (this case been the lower deck) because they are physically unable to climb the stairs because of their age.

Deckers would be good for the route apart from the low bridge on the Centrelink, they would be able to keep the PVR as 4 like it is now, keep the same frequency and allow more people to be seated (53 seats in the current artics with the average seating in deckers at about 70) which would be better for the service as there would be less crowding although due to been able to stand on the lower deck the total capacity will either be marginally under, fractionally under or just over the total capacity of 100 for the current artics.

At peak times however, buses been unable to serve the Centrelink because of the low bridge can turn out to be a problem as we all know how busy Askew Road gets at peak times without those road works that have recently been carried out. This would cause massive delays to services unless another route for peak times was devised that wouldn't affect the service too much if it takes longer. I suppose its better to have a mostly on time service than a 20 minute delayed one!

(28 Mar 2014, 4:18 pm)Robert wrote I agree but don't most elderly people sit downstairs? Been completely honest I don't think it is any difference between any other route that uses deckers other than its an express. Beside this though, it is always nice to let everybody choose where they sit and not to confine them to a certain area (this case been the lower deck) because they are physically unable to climb the stairs because of their age.

Deckers would be good for the route apart from the low bridge on the Centrelink, they would be able to keep the PVR as 4 like it is now, keep the same frequency and allow more people to be seated (53 seats in the current artics with the average seating in deckers at about 70) which would be better for the service as there would be less crowding although due to been able to stand on the lower deck the total capacity will either be marginally under, fractionally under or just over the total capacity of 100 for the current artics.

At peak times however, buses been unable to serve the Centrelink because of the low bridge can turn out to be a problem as we all know how busy Askew Road gets at peak times without those road works that have recently been carried out. This would cause massive delays to services unless another route for peak times was devised that wouldn't affect the service too much if it takes longer. I suppose its better to have a mostly on time service than a 20 minute delayed one!

Why couldn't they not just get some Volvo 7900H Artics?

(28 Mar 2014, 4:18 pm)Robert wrote I agree but don't most elderly people sit downstairs? Been completely honest I don't think it is any difference between any other route that uses deckers other than its an express. Beside this though, it is always nice to let everybody choose where they sit and not to confine them to a certain area (this case been the lower deck) because they are physically unable to climb the stairs because of their age.

Deckers would be good for the route apart from the low bridge on the Centrelink, they would be able to keep the PVR as 4 like it is now, keep the same frequency and allow more people to be seated (53 seats in the current artics with the average seating in deckers at about 70) which would be better for the service as there would be less crowding although due to been able to stand on the lower deck the total capacity will either be marginally under, fractionally under or just over the total capacity of 100 for the current artics.

At peak times however, buses been unable to serve the Centrelink because of the low bridge can turn out to be a problem as we all know how busy Askew Road gets at peak times without those road works that have recently been carried out. This would cause massive delays to services unless another route for peak times was devised that wouldn't affect the service too much if it takes longer. I suppose its better to have a mostly on time service than a 20 minute delayed one!

Yes, which is why double deckers aren't particularly suitable. There's not many seats downstairs, so once they're full, the elderly would be forced to climb the stairs to get a seat. Also, you'll often find (particularly at Gateshead) that once a bus is fully loaded, it leaves. If the final passenger has boarded and is trying to get up a flight of stairs, the driver shouldn't really be pulling out.

Do we actually know that the X66 is going to be upgraded in frequency when upgraded, or is that mere speculation? I'd certainly suggest between certain hours of the day that the increase in frequency would be unjustifiable.

(28 Mar 2014, 4:22 pm)Tom wrote Why couldn't they not just get some Volvo 7900H Artics?

Nothing is stopping them from doing so. I just evaluated the whole idea of the X66 getting deckers and it shows that there are more bad points than good (out of the things I mentioned anyway).

(28 Mar 2014, 4:22 pm)Tom wrote Why couldn't they not just get some Volvo 7900H Artics?

The increased running costs of articulate vehicles - drivers wages are increased, all drivers have to be given special training to drive articulated vehicles, the buses are obviously heavier so pump out more fuel.

(28 Mar 2014, 4:24 pm)Dan wrote Yes, which is why double deckers aren't particularly suitable. There's not many seats downstairs, so once they're full, the elderly would be forced to climb the stairs to get a seat. Also, you'll often find (particularly at Gateshead) that once a bus is fully loaded, it leaves. If the final passenger has boarded and is trying to get up a flight of stairs, the driver shouldn't really be pulling out.

Do we actually know that the X66 is going to be upgraded in frequency when upgraded, or is that mere speculation? I'd certainly suggest between certain hours of the day that the increase in frequency would be unjustifiable.

I didn't say that the frequency was changing when it was upgraded. I was simply saying that in theory, they wouldn't have to and keep the PVR of 4 which would save them money on paying for another bus that could be used to help bus upgrades elsewhere whereas if the service as to get single deckers at least 1 extra bus would need to be purchased and the frequency changed in order to keep up with the amount of seats currently provided by the artics.

(28 Mar 2014, 4:24 pm)Dan wrote Yes, which is why double deckers aren't particularly suitable. There's not many seats downstairs, so once they're full, the elderly would be forced to climb the stairs to get a seat. Also, you'll often find (particularly at Gateshead) that once a bus is fully loaded, it leaves. If the final passenger has boarded and is trying to get up a flight of stairs, the driver shouldn't really be pulling out.

Do we actually know that the X66 is going to be upgraded in frequency when upgraded, or is that mere speculation? I'd certainly suggest between certain hours of the day that the increase in frequency would be unjustifiable.

Its also annoying if your trying to get upstairs with hundreds of bags.

Last time I had a double decker on the X66, I had to lug several bags and a travel ironing board upstairs because there was no seats left downstairs.

(28 Mar 2014, 4:25 pm)Robert wrote Nothing is stopping them from doing so. I just evaluated the whole idea of the X66 getting deckers and it shows that there are more bad points than good (out of the things I mentioned anyway).

On the plus side, replacing the Artics with brand new deckers could mean a bit more room at Riverside.

(28 Mar 2014, 4:24 pm)Dan wrote Do we actually know that the X66 is going to be upgraded in frequency when upgraded, or is that mere speculation? I'd certainly suggest between certain hours of the day that the increase in frequency would be unjustifiable.

Was hinted on here, but of course nobody knows for sure until that order has been placed.

(29 Mar 2014, 5:08 pm)aureolin wrote Was hinted on here, but of course nobody knows for sure until that order has been placed.

I think that may have been an assumption. When that post was made, it had only been briefly discussed between members of staff - nothing had been properly talked about. Time has progressed, and Rob may change his mind...

Did anyone notice Rob's hint at an order the other day..?

(29 Mar 2014, 5:11 pm)Dan wrote I think that may have been an assumption. When that post was made, it had only been briefly discussed between members of staff - nothing had been properly talked about. Time has progressed, and Rob may change his mind...

Did anyone notice Rob's hint at an order the other day..?

The X21

(29 Mar 2014, 5:45 pm)Michael wrote The X21

Then maybe there is the possiblitlity that the Red Arrows will receive 16 new buses (14 branded with 2 red spares) which would displace 6001-6007 around the region (to act as spares for the other older double-deck services) displacing branded 3941, 3942, 3962, 3963, and 3965 as well as 3964 and 6038. (Note: 3943 and a red spare at Washington would additionally be displaced by the 2 new red spares purchased.) Then 6049-6055 would be displaced to Crook and branded for the X21. This suggestion has been made after reading the post that Rob replied to possibly hinting about the X21, the post he replied to suggested replacing Red Arrows 6001-6007 only.

I wonder whether or not GNE will have a B5TL demo for the X1. How long would a Volvo dealer allow GNE to operate a trial bus for? Here's an idea for a trial if the dealer would allow it:

- 1 Month on the Red Arrows operating on a 7 day basis for 28 days operating the longest running board of the day. That trial will go well but, below is the real test and one that will answer this question:

"Can a lightweight double deck bus with a small engine below 7l but not a Hybrid, live up to the same standards and performance akin to a traditional heavyweight double deck vehicle operating a rural and or endurance route with speeds typically of 50mph+ and the route distance typically of 40 mile or more!"

Here is the trial in relation to the above question. "Operation Smoggie". One month on the TTX operating the longest running board of the day for 1 month! If operation smoggie (unlikely) proves to be successful, then great. However if it proves to be unsuccessful, the Volvo and Wrightbus may look at the data and decide to hopefully by 2019, come up with a more suitable vehicle akin to the calibre of the Volvo B9TL.

(28 Mar 2014, 5:51 pm)Jimmi wrote Its also annoying if your trying to get upstairs with hundreds of bags.

Last time I had a double decker on the X66, I had to lug several bags and a travel ironing board upstairs because there was no seats left downstairs.

Not being flippant at all, but isn't it likely to be the same for all of the passengers who don't live in Gateshead Interchange and need to get say an x1, 21 or 56 for the next part of their journey?

(29 Mar 2014, 8:06 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote I wonder whether or not GNE will have a B5TL demo for the X1. How long would a Volvo dealer allow GNE to operate a trial bus for? Here's an idea for a trial if the dealer would allow it:

- 1 Month on the Red Arrows operating on a 7 day basis for 28 days operating the longest running board of the day. That trial will go well but, below is the real test and one that will answer this question:

"Can a lightweight double deck bus with a small engine below 7l but not a Hybrid, live up to the same standards and performance akin to a traditional heavyweight double deck vehicle operating a rural and or endurance route with speeds typically of 50mph+ and the route distance typically of 40 mile or more!"

Here is the trial in relation to the above question. "Operation Smoggie". One month on the TTX operating the longest running board of the day for 1 month! If operation smoggie (unlikely) proves to be successful, then great. However if it proves to be unsuccessful, the Volvo and Wrightbus may look at the data and decide to hopefully by 2019, come up with a more suitable vehicle akin to the calibre of the Volvo B9TL.

Not sure a 5l would cope heading up Old Durham Road, the Washington Highway, the incline up to Shiney Row or Newbottle bank to be honest.

(29 Mar 2014, 8:32 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Not being flippant at all, but isn't it likely to be the same for all of the passengers who don't live in Gateshead Interchange and need to get say an x1, 21 or 56 for the next part of their journey?

But that's what a trial on the X1 and TTX would establish hopefully leading Volvo and Wrightbus to come up with an endurance and long range double deck vehicle that meets Euro 6 requirements.

Not sure a 5l would cope heading up Old Durham Road, the Washington Highway, the incline up to Shiney Row or Newbottle bank to be honest.

But that's what a trial on the X1 and TTX would establish hopefully leading Volvo and Wrightbus to come up with an endurance and long range double deck vehicle that meets Euro 6 requirements.

This is what I think GNE ought to do;

Seeing as 6001-6007 are about two or three years old now, I think they should be given a less major role. You see, although they have a shelf life of 15 or so years, if they are doing a long, demanding route day in day out for the past couple of years, perhaps they should be put onto something less demanding. If they went onto the Prince Bishops, that would be great because although it is one of the companies primary routes, it is not as prominent as the likes of the 21 or 56. If they were replaced by some luxurious head cushioned B5s I will just number 6118-6124, then perhaps one by one 6049-6055 could be debranded and rebranded as the Pronto and sent along to Crook, being replaced by the imaginary 6125-6131.

The reason that the younger ones should go along there instead of their older siblings is because the X21 is, as someone who uses it, (and all of Chester's services) on a regular basis, it needs a good, sturdy vehicle, capable of holding many people, unlike the Presidents who I think have a less seating capacity and rattle like a box of nails after going down the motorway thousands of times, and plus I think with the Pronto, it should be up there with the other major routes as it makes a lot more money than some of the routes that get regular upgrades (eg Crusader) when compared to it, but I don't think they'll get new vehicles because the X1 was the first to get Geminis and will be the first to get a second turn of them if you ask me.

I mean, the way things are being spectulated, I can see something along these lines happening in the coming future, but probably not within a couple of months, and more like sometime toward next year.