I've come here to try and, in the first place, open a discussion about this service, collect peoples thoughts and suggestions and secondly for anyone to let of steam with their criticisms, Hopefully, if it works, then I can put something, proactive, to submit to Arriva management. Cheers.

I've never used it. However, I may be using it in the not-to-distant future as I plan to travel down to Scarborough using an Explorer ticket.

I know you have some issues with the service. If you pop into Middlesbrough Library and have a look at the microfilm archives for the Gazette, you'll see that the Whitby to Scarborough section of the route (although it probably wasn't known as the 93/X93 back then) has always suffered from its fair share of problems dating back to when the BRB closed the Whitby to Scarborough railway line in 1965.

'Whitby Scornful of Bus Scheme' & 'Steep Roads and Snow Cause Concern over Bus Scheme' [sic] are two such articles which both appeared in the July 9th 1964 edition of the Evening Gazette on pages 1 and 2 respectively. However, one must be objective when looking at articles from this particular period as people in Whitby were trying to save all their rail services from closure. A replacement bus service is not going to be presented in the best possible light.

It's all interesting Adam and p'raps I should extend my thread to include stuff like this ? I know the route of old, well certainly back to the 70's when I think there was just two through journeys each day! I've read and listened to reports even recently of services in winter being at best suspended, at worst stranded, due to snow. So yes I do see the bigger picture of just how llogistically difficult to operate the route, a route that is kinda victim of its own popularity.

Have read the posts with interest.

Having always wanted to use the service, the queues that often stand at Whitby for what seems like hours and the apparent reliability issues, have discouraged me - meaning it has always been the car or train (Tyne Tees Day Rover) to have been the winners.

Unless something changes and we see major improvements in the service, I will remain an x93 virgin.

Well extra capacity seems to be the name of the game with 2 more Volvo B7TLs due to arrive later this week from Northumbria to cover the 8 summer boards.

Would it be worth investing in some Tri-Axle Coaches i.e. Caetano Levantes for the X93 and Perhaps increase the Frequency of the Service.

I've never used the Arriva X93, despite being tempted to. I suppose, as AdamY says, it's just one of those services that over a long period of time, just founders and founders until it hits the bottom of the ocean.

(19 May 2014, 6:28 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Would it be worth investing in some Tri-Axle Coaches i.e. Caetano Levantes for the X93 and Perhaps increase the Frequency of the Service.

Suppose it could be like the X4/X5 in Cumbria - have one journey operated by a coach, then one journey operated by a Easy Access low floor double decker so there is the option of that for disabled customers.

To Andreos. I know I've gone on about the service but looking at it as an entity I'm guessing that overall it is quite a success by virtue of the fact that management are now trying to give Whitby depot a full 8 double deck PVR to meet the requirements of the peak season timetable.I can understand what you say about the crowds and reliability though ? It's the former that tend to throw me!

To Scott. Thanks for the heads up on that. Just thinking that if they perhaps threw some additional resources - maintainance and cleaning at the Whitby compound then that could be a step in the right direction. Just a thought?

(19 May 2014, 6:38 pm)robisdave15 wrote To Andreos. I know I've gone on about the service but looking at it as an entity I'm guessing that overall it is quite a success by virtue of the fact that management are now trying to give Whitby depot a full 8 double deck PVR to meet the requirements of the peak season timetable.I can understand what you say about the crowds and reliability though ? It's the former that tend to throw me!

To Scott. Thanks for the heads up on that. Just thinking that if they perhaps threw some additional resources - maintainance and cleaning at the Whitby compound then that could be a step in the right direction. Just a thought?

There is no doubt it is a success, but not sure the service is reaching its full potential.
Hopefully the allocation will help improve the service and lead it onto greater success.

I imagine the majority of passengers are from the Teesside area and possibly the southern fringes of Co Durham and maybe Darlington too.
If the likes of Marcus, AdamY or myself were to use it, there is the need for at least two more connections from Middlesbrough to get home (using different operators in a fragmented system).
That faff and the issues I mentioned previously are the things putting me off - particularly with a family in tow.

The Day Ranger I mentioned earlier coupled with a Family and Friends Railcard make the train (particularly the direct ones from Tyneside/Wearside) even more attractive.

The bus isn't ruled out, it just isn't as attractive as it could be

(19 May 2014, 7:02 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote There is no doubt it is a success, but not sure the service is reaching its full potential.
Hopefully the allocation will help improve the service and lead it onto greater success.

I imagine the majority of passengers are from the Teesside area and possibly the southern fringes of Co Durham and maybe Darlington too.
If the likes of Marcus, AdamY or myself were to use it, there is the need for at least two more connections from Middlesbrough to get home (using different operators in a fragmented system).
That faff and the issues I mentioned previously are the things putting me off - particularly with a family in tow.

The Day Ranger I mentioned earlier coupled with a Family and Friends Railcard make the train (particularly the direct ones from Tyneside/Wearside) even more attractive.

The bus isn't ruled out, it just isn't as attractive as it could be

Yeah, if I were to use it I'd probably have to get up pretty early, then get on a 71 into Chester, perhaps an X21 to Newcastle to speed things up, then an X9/X10 all the way to Middlesbrough, then the X93 to Scarborough and back to Middlesbrough. I suppose instead of trailing all the way to Newcastle in order to get back (by this time I think it would be well into the afternoon) I would get an Arriva service to Durham then back to Chester on a 21. It would certainly be a long journey...

There are of course other ways

Used the X93 for the first time back in the February half term. Me and my friends decided to have a trip out for the day. We got off the X10 and went straight onto the X93, doing the full route to Scarborough. Never again.

Ended up with Scania Omnicity 4651 (NK05 GXE) there and back. Loadings were about 3/4 full from Middlesbrough to Whitby, where about half got off and at least one full bus load clambered on, meaning people were standing from the front all the way to the very back of the bus. I occasionally suffer from travel sickness but I'm usually alright on buses/coaches (I was perfectly fine yesterday going to/from Wembley), but the X93 was horrible. I felt quite ill from just south of Guisborough all the way to Scarborough.

To top it off as well, coming back, we were sat in the quadrant areas at the back, and on the very back seats, a woman decided to give her partner a blowjob. Happily, I had my back turned to them so I didn't see it (not that I would ever want to), but a couple of my friends didn't share that same amount of fortune as me and are now scarred for life.

We were thinking about returning to Scarborough in the forthcoming half term on the X93, but I've made it perfectly clear to my friends that I'm taking the train, even though I may be the only one that will. I'd rather shell out at least £30 on train fares than pay a £9.30 Day Explorer and use that X93.

To those who commented on the use of coaches this is one bright idea. Running a direct service, perhaps just peak season, direct from Middlesbrough to Scarborough non-stop would alleviate the pressure on the service vehicles ; maybe even extended with a start in Newcastle?
And to Andreos. Yes I fully appreciate what your saying there. I assume it would be local
service and TTX before even getting near the
X93? A veritable nightmare.
WHOOPS! Nearly missed Adams post! In everything positive we can say about the service, that sort of experience is sadly an all to frequent part of life on the X93 and unfortunately not much we can do about it. A shame.

(19 May 2014, 8:09 pm)robisdave15 wrote To those who commented on the use of coaches this is one bright idea. Running a direct service, perhaps just peak season, direct from Middlesbrough to Scarborough non-stop would alleviate the pressure on the service vehicles ; maybe even extended with a start in Newcastle?
And to Andreos. Yes I fully appreciate what your saying there. I assume it would be local
service and TTX before even getting near the
X93? A veritable nightmare.
WHOOPS! Nearly missed Adams post! In everything positive we can say about the service, that sort of experience is sadly an all to frequent part of life on the X93 and unfortunately not much we can do about it. A shame.

We used to have Service X60 from Newcastle and Service X61 from Durham during the summer and between Middlesbrough and Scarborough they only stopped at Ormesby Post Office, Birk Brow Top, Scaling Dam, Whitby Bus Station and Flask Inn.

Sadly I think these services were killed off by Concession passes.

X60 timetable
http://www.travelnortheast.co.uk/downloa...l-Scar.pdf

X61 timetable
http://www.travelnortheast.co.uk/downloa...r-scar.pdf

I didn't want to go there with that particularly line but it's quite right and needs saying. I have said previously that the X93 does not meet its true potential revenue wise and this in turn reflects what can and can't 'be done in terms of investment and improvement. I'm not sure of the reimbursement that the operator gets in respect of the concessionary passes but believe it is a fraction of the full fare. Don't think I need do the maths and your probably quite correct in saying that it killed the X60/61.

(19 May 2014, 8:37 pm)robisdave15 wrote I didn't want to go there with that particularly line but it's quite right and needs saying. I have said previously that the X93 does not meet its true potential revenue wise and this in turn reflects what can and can't 'be done in terms of investment and improvement. I'm not sure of the reimbursement that the operator gets in respect of the concessionary passes but believe it is a fraction of the full fare. Don't think I need do the maths and your probably quite correct in saying that it killed the X60/61.

The other issues with passes was when pre 0930 travel supplements were introduced in 2011.

Also the passenger numbers were variant on weather.

(19 May 2014, 8:09 pm)robisdave15 wrote To those who commented on the use of coaches this is one bright idea. Running a direct service, perhaps just peak season, direct from Middlesbrough to Scarborough non-stop would alleviate the pressure on the service vehicles ; maybe even extended with a start in Newcastle?
And to Andreos. Yes I fully appreciate what your saying there. I assume it would be local
service and TTX before even getting near the
X93? A veritable nightmare.
WHOOPS! Nearly missed Adams post! In everything positive we can say about the service, that sort of experience is sadly an all to frequent part of life on the X93 and unfortunately not much we can do about it. A shame.

If it is the x9/10 - then potentially two buses (local and an x1) or a 4 to pick the x9/10 up at Heworth. Either way, just to get to a bus stop for the x9/10 would take circa 60mins.

Another option would be a bus to Sunderland and then an x7.
Or, a bus to Chester le Street and an x1/2.

So although getting to Middlesbrough is possible, to come back, we would need specific planning to ensure all connections were met.
Once a bus is boarded coming North, the connection options are instantly limited.

That's just a pure nightmare and sadly as things stand just a straightforward no no. The going part itself could fall apart easily at M'bro if there is already a crowd waiting with, as things stand, the possibility of single deck operation. As for the return journey well that thought would spoil my day and enjoyment. I'd love to see the service developed and expanded with the use of direct express services but we have to try and improve what we have before that can happen.

Let's not forget that NYCC (where over half of the passengers board) have just cut their concessionary reimbursement rate... I'm not sure we'll ever find out the true rate but I bet it's not far north of 50p/passenger !!

Middlesbrough - Whitby is the quiet section of the X93, and there are issues with loadings between Whitby and Scarborough, especially in the summer when the tourists help to overload the service. Indeed last summer one morning journey had to have a duplicate every day as one double deck vehicle wasn't enough to carry everyone! Hence we have 8 double decks this summer for use on the 8 boards.

Never thought my thread would take off like this! I didn't want to break into the issue of concessionary passes because it seems like such s hot potato and is clearly what a) blights the earning potential of the service and b) contributes to the loading situation, kinda devil and the deep blue sea ! Just what dya do? I knew there were / are issues on the Whitby - Scarborough and am now thinking what I spoke about in a separate post - running direct coaches from Boro non - stop to S'Boro is maybe something to look at in the future?
While I'm here? They've given them 8 B7's to meet the PVR, what about spare vehicles down there to help out?

(19 May 2014, 9:22 pm)robisdave15 wrote Never thought my thread would take off like this! I didn't want to break into the issue of concessionary passes because it seems like such s hot potato and is clearly what a) blights the earning potential of the service and b) contributes to the loading situation, kinda devil and the deep blue sea ! Just what dya do? I knew there were / are issues on the Whitby - Scarborough and am now thinking what I spoke about in a separate post - running direct coaches from Boro non - stop to S'Boro is maybe something to look at in the future?
While I'm here? They've given them 8 B7's to meet the PVR, what about spare vehicles down there to help out?

If the Newcastle-Scarborough service did start again, maybe concessionary passes won't be valid? Possibly charge a £4.00 return for concessions/children and a £7.50 return for adults?

Getting to Middlesbrough would involve a 35-40 minute bus journey into Newcastle, then a 80 minute journey on one of the Tyne-Tees Express services. So there's approximately 2 hours (not including waiting time) gone already. Getting to Scarborough is another 2 hour bus ride on the X93. Times that by 2 and that's around 8 hours travelling time there and back not including time spent waiting for connections.

Before this thread was started I was well-up for travelling to Scarborough by bus. I don't think I'll bother now!

Regarding services X60/X61 - were concessionary fares accepted on these services? IIRC, Explorers and some other regional passes were exempt so I was wondering whether there was some sort of rule regarding concessionary passes.

(19 May 2014, 9:22 pm)robisdave15 wrote Never thought my thread would take off like this! I didn't want to break into the issue of concessionary passes because it seems like such s hot potato and is clearly what a) blights the earning potential of the service and b) contributes to the loading situation, kinda devil and the deep blue sea ! Just what dya do? I knew there were / are issues on the Whitby - Scarborough and am now thinking what I spoke about in a separate post - running direct coaches from Boro non - stop to S'Boro is maybe something to look at in the future?
While I'm here? They've given them 8 B7's to meet the PVR, what about spare vehicles down there to help out?

Whitby already carry a spare vehicle, hence why they used 4718 this morning.
Of course Redcar will be operating two of the X93s on the summer timetable but the deckers should primarily work from Whitby, hopefully if they can keep all 8 on the road then it will stay all double deck but of course there will be days where it's just not possible. Apparently then Scanias will be used first and foremost... Temsas as a real last resort hopefully!

Fingers crossed!!

(19 May 2014, 9:28 pm)AdamY wrote Getting to Middlesbrough would involve a 35-40 minute bus journey into Newcastle, then a 80 minute journey on one of the Tyne-Tees Express services. So there's approximately 2 hours (not including waiting time) gone already. Getting to Scarborough is another 2 hour bus ride on the X93. Times that by 2 and that's around 8 hours travelling time there and back not including time spent waiting for connections.

Before this thread was started I was well-up for travelling to Scarborough by bus. I don't think I'll bother now!

Regarding services X60/X61 - were concessionary fares accepted on these services? IIRC, Explorers and some other regional passes were exempt so I was wondering whether there was some sort of rule regarding concessionary passes.

Concession passes were allowed (pre 0930 supplements applied on weekdays during the school summer holidays, eg. 50p in County Durham and Passes couldn't be used at Harrowgate Hill and Thompson Street as passes can't be used before 0930 in Darlington.)

Thanks for all your posts guys, some interesting points. Would be useful if we can here from anyone who has had experience, good or bad, of the service in the past 12 months or so? Kinda guessing from the vibes I'm getting from the pcosts so far then this could be a bit of an ask and given what Jimmi said, a bit disturbing! But this is the objective of my thread so crack on you X93 aficionados!

Thanks
Robin

The first time I have used the X93 was at the beginning of this year and have only used the off peak timetable. I normally travel on the 10:25 departure from Middlesbrough (and for the times I have used it this year has always been single deck).

Passenger loadings seem to vary according to weather and from the Middlesbrough end I have observed most passengers seem to have a free pass.

I have travelled once all the way to Scarborough and then back again. When boarding in Scarborough, most passengers seemed to be fare paying and from observation most 'free pass' passengers travel between Whitby and Middlesbrough (as I say these are just things I noticed).

As for the buses I have used on the route, majority have been Scania Omnicity, one Temsa, A Prestiege and one Enviro 400 (the time I travelled from Scarborough to Middlesbrough). The Scania seemed to cope well with the route - only downside is standing passengers. The Temsa (first time I had travelled on one) also seemed to manage really well but I don't like the seating arrangement. The Prestiege, I have a soft spot for them and it managed well (sure it was 4081 but not sure on Arriva fleet numbers). As for the Enviro, in it's favour it had enough seats.

I haven't been one one of the Volvo B7's yet. From what I have read, size of engine seems to be brought up quite a lot. However, I think the gearbox has a lot to do with it as well. I don't like the Arriva E400's but I do like the Stagecoach version. I also like the Volvo B7TL although how it will do on the X93 remains to be seen. A good comparison I think would be comparing one of the ex London Volvo's against one of the Alexander bodied examples with different gearbox.

As for different buses, I like the ex London Dafs but not sure how they would work on that route (seem to go fine on hills from my experience). Or how about Arriva try different double deck types from other Arriva companies and see how they do on the route then they could buy there own or loan them for the peak season or swap for some of their vehicles. I know this idea is not the cheapest but surely it is plausible and allows different vehicle types to be tried on the route. Comparisons could also be done on fuel consumption etc.

Anyway, just my views and experience from riding on the service. I hope to try out the summer timetable soon (well when it starts at least) and hopefully try one of the Volvo's =]

I used this service from Middlesbrough-Whitby last summer and it was a horrible ride, absolutely rammed all the way and in my opinion, the bus seemed overloaded, the people standing from front to back on lower deck wouldn't have a stood a chance to do anything if the bus had been involved in some kind of accident and quite a few passengers were drinking as well, which leaves me quite nervous, because if there is a problem or an argument starts, there is nowhere to go.

Coming back from Whitby the service was duplicated and both was down to standing room only and again not very pleasant, with the amount of people packed on, it was like a greenhouse, even with windows open...

The problem I have with this, is the same as has been pointed out before and it is connections, I am from Murton, Co.Durham, it I would have to get 2 buses just to reach Middlesbrough(202 or 23 or 24, then X9)...

Last year I got the train to Middlesbrough from Seaham and coming home I barely made my connection as the X93 rolled into Middlesbrough about 20 minutes...

I dont know if it would work, would it not be worth introducing a new service dedicated to running non-stop between M'bro and S'bro with, say 1 stop, at Guisborough and make the X93 M'bro to Whitby only...

I will be heading back to Whitby in the Summer sometime and will get the train unless there is an imrovement on the X93

At least on a Sunday there's a direct train from Seaham to Whitby in the summer. Be a good day out!

(28 May 2014, 11:14 pm)Sparkle wrote At least on a Sunday there's a direct train from Seaham to Whitby in the summer. Be a good day out!

Except it will be a Saturday when I go ;-)