(19 Jul 2020, 4:36 pm)Storx wrote Can't argue with statistics tbh so not going to naive and argue a point to the ground and it kind of makes sense in the point really that even if you did want to get 25 new buses it wouldn't never happen anyway because of how companies work so won't argue about where new buses go.

I still think a good refurbishment in comparison to a new bus in the majority of cases is just as good though. I know a lot of people seem to want the 10 to get new buses but if you give them a as new refurbishment and a good marketing campaign then it'll be as good as buying new buses for them. Similar with the 56 and in a few years the time the 20, Coast and Country and Black Cat network. I just wish all 3 would spend a bit more on upgrading their older fleet as there is a few core routes around which are looking pretty tired imo 10, 56, 58, Quaylink to name a few for GNE and then create a more modern fleet throughout so when they do eventually move on they're not too far behind the new buses lets say the 21 has got.

The X9/X10 is a different route altogether though and it was more of buying the wrong bus for the route which you's have finally solved so no moaning there.

(19 Jul 2020, 4:47 pm)Storx wrote I never thought about the business case side of things so they'd never get new buses for the 6 or 25 anyway. No point arguing for the sake of it and with the stats that new buses on the 25 would give the same gain as on the 21 from someone who works for the company then what's there to discuss. I just thought there would be more potential for bigger gains on the 25 etc since less people in the area it covers use it now so there's more potential but guessing you'd need to do more than new vehicles (which makes sense).

That's what I was trying to explain, the only way they can convince the higher ups to give them money for new vehicles is to upgrade the routes that make the money. 

The X1 didn't /need/ an upgrade, they could have refurbed and people would have been happy, but by upgrading the X1, they released the B9s to upgrade a route that needs it, but can't be justified financially. If the B9s are good enough to stay on the X1 with a refurb, then they're good enough to go on the Crusader! You have to look at the bigger picture rather than focusing on routes that get new vehicles. 

With what you say about them needing to spend more money upgrading the older fleet, I do agree somewhat with that. To me, there's absolutely no point in refurbishing the Omnicities when they're going to be on their way in the next couple years. I personally wouldn't have refurbished the Citaros as to me that seemed a waste of money. It only makes sense to refurbish the vehicles that are going to be staying for many more years.  Out of the fleet they currently have, the only ones that I would personally think about refurbishing are the B9s, Versas, and if the Euro 6 upgrade goes well, the Coaster B5s. The older Streetlites have probably got a few more years left in them before they get refurbished, and even then only if they get the Euro 6 upgrade.

I agree with what you say about the 10, there's absolutely no need for new buses, a good refurb and they'll be as good as new!