(19 Dec 2020, 11:54 pm)Ambassador wrote Interesting debate this. My view on Hebburn is that you’ve got swathes of new housing being built but all are designed for car users and most are indeed car users, so the increase in population isn’t really an increase in bus users and when those people do commute they’d prefer to stand on a metro to Newcastle for 13 minutes (by which time the 27 is still in Hebburn on it’s torturous route through Luke’s Lane)

The likes of Hebburn in particular is that it’s moving away from being a place of employment and industry to essentially a commuter town so people aren’t looking to make local journeys (outside concessionary pass holders) but more point to point

On the earlier point of the 721, it didn’t really compete Durham Rd wise as it served Elizabethville and Barley Mow which the the 23 sort of replaced but didn’t. Birtley used to have an excellent local network with the original 23 going up into Sanders Gardens and Birtley East school (now a taxi bus service) alongside the 184 and direct links to Sunderland (777) and South Shields (551) and more regular services to Ouston and direct services to Stanley (709/728) again Birtley is seeing that shift to commuter town status

Yeah agreed with the new housing it's the same up this way. Gosforth Park being one where they pretty much isn't a bus service at all to the place, the same as the new housing estates they're building in Cramlington.

Wrote a bit more on the commuter town below.

(20 Dec 2020, 12:08 am)Andreos1 wrote I think the key is to finding where the cars are heading to. Not just in the morning and evening peaks, but beyond that. 

The Port of Tyne is a huge employer for residents of South Tyneside, as is the likes of Nissan.
For someone living in Whiteleas or Biddick Hall and on a shift pattern, is there any reliable public transport provision which would cover them to Tyne Dock or Nissan? Of course not.
Never mind two huge residential areas, you can't even do those journeys from the likes of Chichester or Boldon Colliery and they're not far from either of those two key employment sites. 

It's very similar for someone living in Marsden and working somewhere in Newcastle, such as the Business Park. 
Do you faff on getting a bus in to Shields and subsequently being at the whim of the Metro and the 22 or 12 (never mind any confusion of the various ticketing options or validity)? 
Do you go around the world on an X34 and look for a connection at the other end or do you drive in? 

Ticketing, pricing, the existing network and convenience.
That's where the problem lies imo.
The passengers are there, it's just the operators don't know what to do with them. Even though they think they do.
Except they don't - which is backed up with the ever regular decline in passenger numbers.

Yeah agreed there, it's almost as the network is stuck back in 1980 for me serving places that were popular back then but not so much nowadays with noticeable places being pretty much unserved. Shopping without a car must be an absolute nightmare for most people like talking about South Shields if you wanted an ASDA you'd probably want to go to the one at Boldon but you can't get there; some clothes shopping Silverlink or Washington (no service / v little to both). There's 10 buses to South Shields though or you can go to Sunderland either which isn't exactly much better. Sainsburys, Washington Galleries (can't get there). Buggar it I'll drive.

It's the same as Birtley, most people there will either shop at Team Valley or The Metro Centre but can you get to either of them, nope not without changes infact you can't get to really anywhere to the Metro Centre from the North or South bar the token X22 service.

Live in the West End want to go to the Metro Centre; that's a trip to Newcastle then back out. Speaking of that I was speaking to someone in the West End and they shopped at ASDA at Byker (which was like eh). But they said it's the only supermarket you can actually get to from the West Road / Elswick (bar Morrisons at Cowgate but it's small and has a limited range). Even known there's an ASDA at Metro Centre and Gosforth, Tesco Gateshead and Kingston Park, Morrisons Blaydon, M&S Kingston Park etc but none of them are accesible from there. Then they wonder why people drive.

Not to mention there's no bus service from the West End at all to Newcastle / Newburn Business Parks (an employment site), never mind struggling from South Shields.

(Tounge in cheek the 50 serves Nissan from most the places you said )