(26 Jan 2022, 2:26 pm)Bazza wrote The question is why?

What was GNE doing wrong?  Does it show that all the gimmicks (Branded routes, constant rebranding,  fares, special routes, hi spec buses etc etc) made no positive difference whatsoever to the bottom line of the balance sheet? Perhaps even had the opposite effects due to the extra costs incurred.

(26 Jan 2022, 2:59 pm)Storx wrote Probably more to do with the routes imo. Arriva and Stagecoach have some very strong corridors (X10/X11/X21/X22/X15/X18/306/308/6/7/63/64/X93/1: Arriva), (1/39/40/62/63 and so on: SNE). Apart from the 20, 21, 56, 60 and X1. There's nothing that really stands out in terms of making a fortune. On the otherhand they have some very weak routes, (82/83/11/42/42A/5/26/28/29/Peterlee locals).

Not sure there's much you could really do with some of the routes realistically as there's just not the demand and over the years they've butchered the network to a level where there's literally nothing left to butcher.

It doesn't help there's the Metro / Arriva and SNE dominating most their areas neither with the routes you realistically want.

(26 Jan 2022, 3:35 pm)Bazza wrote ANE and Stagecoach have kept there routes more or less stable.   It has been mentioned that Arriva have made cuts, but these have been frequency reductions rather than routes being curtailed, diverted or stopped.  it seems like GNE chop and change very quickly. How many different brands have there been in the last few years?

Although I asked the question of why the recent and forthcoming cuts were so stark with GNE compared to the others, I think the question of why they had different starting positions is quite clear.  As others have pointed out GNE and SNE had pretty massively different portfolios of routes, with SNE still basically being confined to urban ex Corporation boundaries, whereas GNE have more diverse, more rural and by and large longer routes, with less easy profit to cream off.

That said, the fact that the performance of GNE has been consistently challenged, despite over a decade and a half of branding and gimmicks, might suggest they aren’t working.  Not the cause, but also very clearly not a solution.

I do think the stability/instability of the network has a role to play.  SNE are undeniably rigid and I think could do with refreshing or improving some services – but again variations not wholesale cuts.  The reverse is true with GNE which has for years and now worse than ever in my opinion is a complete basket-case of changes.  While SNE would do well to be a bit more imaginative, the GNE network would surely benefit from a period of stability (i.e. what the Sept cuts were meant to bring, then the Oct ‘tweaks’…) – really does seem changes are made on top of changes without enough time for travel patterns to settle.  It does seem bizarre GNE put effort into producing and updating branded material for the likes of ‘the Blue’ yet four months and two timetable changes on, there’s still no sign of an actual Blue branded bus.

It does appear, from the outside looking in, to be a maybe less resilient operation, forced to respond to the challenges of the pandemic more drastically and sooner than competitors – yet at the same time the most vocal about ‘fit for the future’ and ‘we’re better than ever’ etc.  Appreciate these slogans have been dropped of late but arguably ill-conceived in the first place as they become a hostage to fortune.

(26 Jan 2022, 5:44 pm)Andreos1 wrote I think the SNE network works as it does, cos it doesn't take someone an hour plus to get to work or the shops. 
They can get from a - b pretty easily.

You have clearly never tried getting from A to B on the 32/32A!