(30 May 2024, 9:14 pm)busmanT wrote Definitely not a good thing -- as few of the people involved in NECA/Nexus have any experience in running large scale bus networks, nor has Cllr Gannon.

Clearly Kim should take advice from her opposite number in Manchester as to what the issues are with setting up a franchised network, what to copy and what not to copy.

And find out the issues that have arisen in actually running a franchised network - the published Bee Network reliability statistics are very poor (even after adding 20 buses into Tranche 1), and the whole transfer of depots, staff and buses between operators has, apparently, gone far from smoothly for Go Ahead or Stagecoach.

https://tfgm.com/ways-to-travel/bus/punc.../19-25-may

https://democracy.greatermanchester-ca.g...tteeId=442

Whilst I agree that working with TfGM / Andy Burnham would be a good move, and indeed any area should do the same, I think it's worth adding some context around the reliability statistics.

There's no getting away from that they're poor, that's accepted, but I think it's well worth pointing out that TfGM (along with TfL) are one of the few that publish this level of data. Campaign groups have requested it from commercial operators for years, but it's never been forthcoming. All we get is the single encompassing figure for Tyne and Wear ITA that the Govt publish annually.

(31 May 2024, 6:26 am)Storx wrote Might be just me, but is it just me that would rather we didn't bother with franchising at all, 2 of the main operators have pretty much proven their not fit for purpose anyway and go for the full public approach instead.

Starmer has already commited to it, or has reletively recently mentioned it, and unless something spectacular happens he's going to be in charge in just over a month anyway.

Obviously you'd need to get the right people in charge, but on paper most the GNE / Arriva Northumbria team will be out of a job - whether you judge them to the right people anyway is another question mind. Franchising in Manchester so far hasn't exactly been the glory of success some want to shout about, especially with transitions. It's all good giving GoAhead somewhere like Walkergate but if the place is full of ex GoNorthEast driver's then you can see where the problems start.

Not to mention everyone likes to discuss how great buses are in London but forget to the mention the big funding black hole behind them (massively cross subsidised by the Underground)

Heck you could even argue for a dual model and have a public operator operating Stagecoach's network (maybe with them having a small share like Transdev do with Nottingham City Transport) possibly with other areas added in (Gateshead / rest of Sunderland?), and franchise out other areas which are more rural / intercity and never have the scope to really return massive profits.

Why, what's the alternative then? You're saying that two of the main operators aren't fit for purpose, but you're not keen on a different model?

People are quick to jump on TfGM for the Bee Network, but we're forgetting that it's early days, and it's the first reversal of privatisation since the 80s. In taking everything in house, they're inheriting years of issues that haven't been left to fester. It was never going to be fixed overnight. There has to be a long term plan and ambition, and I think Manchester have that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think franchising alone is the complete answer. I think a fully integrated network is the key, but also the ban on municipals has to be reversed too. Without that, you can never achieve the best value for money. Labour have supposedly committed to it (for what that's worth these days), but I will believe it when I see it.

Regarding your point on 'the big funding black hole', when referring to London. I think you'll always get this point raised, but we shouldn't be ashamed to spend money on infrastructure, when it's there to be used by and for the benefit of everyone. It's no different to £5 billion being allocated to paying a private company to deliver (and make profit on) fibre broadband, or the billions we give to private water companies, to sell us back our water. Personally speaking, I'm happy that my taxes contribute towards public services.