(07 Feb 2025, 9:53 pm)PH - BQA wrote The revised route for the X18 north of Alnwick will be adding significant pressures to the Ashington fleet, and is perhaps one of the most idiotic changes I can remember.

What is changing with the X18? Couldn’t tell from the details.

(07 Feb 2025, 10:13 pm)Thomas12 wrote What is changing with the X18? Couldn’t tell from the details.

Revised route north of Alnwick to improve reliability. It will mean two workings on the X18 become single deck, due to the low bridge at Denwick (the new route avoiding the double run back to Lesbury as it does now).

Hardly end of the world.

Looking at the current timetable, would mean the 10:08, 14:08 and 18:18 out of Newcastle will be SD operated. The rest DD as usual.

(08 Feb 2025, 10:04 am)Superman wrote Revised route north of Alnwick to improve reliability. It will mean two workings on the X18 become single deck, due to the low bridge at Denwick (the new route avoiding the double run back to Lesbury as it does now).

Hardly end of the world.

Looking at the current timetable, would mean the 10:08, 14:08 and 18:18 out of Newcastle will be SD operated. The rest DD as usual.

I haven't seen the buses in recent years, must admit, but won't this be a serious capacity issue in the Summer months? They used to be packed to the rafters with people heading up to Seahouses etc, in the paat.

Obviously not much of an issue in February but it's not a million miles away.

(08 Feb 2025, 10:34 am)Storx wrote I haven't seen the buses in recent years, must admit, but won't this be a serious capacity issue in the Summer months? They used to be packed to the rafters with people heading up to Seahouses etc, in the paat.

Obviously not much of an issue in February but it's not a million miles away.

Could they not change from DD to SD in Alnwick and vice vera during the busier summer months?

(08 Feb 2025, 10:04 am)Superman wrote Revised route north of Alnwick to improve reliability. It will mean two workings on the X18 become single deck, due to the low bridge at Denwick (the new route avoiding the double run back to Lesbury as it does now).

Hardly end of the world.

Looking at the current timetable, would mean the 10:08, 14:08 and 18:18 out of Newcastle will be SD operated. The rest DD as usual.

There are multiple serious issues with this, which I’m surprised haven’t been flagged internally prior to pushing ahead with this change. 

Firstly there’s the issue with capacity. As you have pointed out, this means the 10:08 ex-Newcastle will be single deck operated. My experience using this service previously would suggest that that particular run would always require a double deck allocation, both for the loadings in and out of Newcastle during the summer months. This is the first X18 into Newcastle which pensioners can use from Widdrington south, and also likely the first northbound most can use from Newcastle if they’ve needed to connect onto it in the city centre. Then, Monday to Friday, that same board works the 14:05 ex-Berwick which is intentionally sent past Willowburn on its way into Alnwick to pick up the school kids - I’m unsure on those afternoon loadings in fairness, but if they’re comparable to the morning run then they tend to be sizeable. Runs around the coast in previous years, during the summer, have been known to pick up significant loads in Seahouses and Bamburgh too, enough to pretty much fill a decker. 

There’s then the issue with the vehicles. At best, age wise, they’ve got some 64-plate Streetlites. The previous allocation of 64-plate deckers were taken off the route nearly 3 years ago due to unreliability, and they had significantly larger engines and generally were more suited to the work. Realistically Pulsars will be allocated to the boards, the youngest of which are 12 years old, and one of those has a reduced seating capacity due to its initial order specification. Beyond that, and outside of 1479 which should be allocated to the 777, the rest of the 61-plate (now 13 years old…) Pulsars are an absolute state internally and haven’t been touched since new. There are then 1404 and the 5 ex-Merseyside Pulsars which have been refurbished, but they are now 15-16 years old and pushing them onto X18 boards daily is a recipe for disaster. Pulsars are fantastic vehicles, but expecting 12-16 year old examples to faultlessly perform on the demanding X18 (where they will be carrying large loads for the most part!) is an act of sheer folly. I also question the ability of a Pulsar (or Streetlites) to complete a board on the X18 with regard to fuel capacity. 

You then get to the significant downgrade to the appeal of the route to tourists. The X18 has been heavily promoted by Arriva and NCC in recent years as a great way to see the coast, which is fair enough as from the top deck of a vehicle you have a fairly good view. Unless there are some particular nice hedges I don’t see how the same can be achieved from a single deck vehicle. 

All of that, and I don’t see how anyone can argue that any of the points made aren’t serious issues with this mental plan, for at best a few minutes worth of gain? Comparing times to the 418, this literally saves 2 minutes compared to the current X18 route.

(08 Feb 2025, 12:00 pm)PH - BQA wrote There are multiple serious issues with this, which I’m surprised haven’t been flagged internally prior to pushing ahead with this change. 

Firstly there’s the issue with capacity. As you have pointed out, this means the 10:08 ex-Newcastle will be single deck operated. My experience using this service previously would suggest that that particular run would always require a double deck allocation, both for the loadings in and out of Newcastle during the summer months. This is the first X18 into Newcastle which pensioners can use from Widdrington south, and also likely the first northbound most can use from Newcastle if they’ve needed to connect onto it in the city centre. Then, Monday to Friday, that same board works the 14:05 ex-Berwick which is intentionally sent past Willowburn on its way into Alnwick to pick up the school kids - I’m unsure on those afternoon loadings in fairness, but if they’re comparable to the morning run then they tend to be sizeable. Runs around the coast in previous years, during the summer, have been known to pick up significant loads in Seahouses and Bamburgh too, enough to pretty much fill a decker. 

There’s then the issue with the vehicles. At best, age wise, they’ve got some 64-plate Streetlites. The previous allocation of 64-plate deckers were taken off the route nearly 3 years ago due to unreliability, and they had significantly larger engines and generally were more suited to the work. Realistically Pulsars will be allocated to the boards, the youngest of which are 12 years old, and one of those has a reduced seating capacity due to its initial order specification. Beyond that, and outside of 1479 which should be allocated to the 777, the rest of the 61-plate (now 13 years old…) Pulsars are an absolute state internally and haven’t been touched since new. There are then 1404 and the 5 ex-Merseyside Pulsars which have been refurbished, but they are now 15-16 years old and pushing them onto X18 boards daily is a recipe for disaster. Pulsars are fantastic vehicles, but expecting 12-16 year old examples to faultlessly perform on the demanding X18 (where they will be carrying large loads for the most part!) is an act of sheer folly. I also question the ability of a Pulsar (or Streetlites) to complete a board on the X18 with regard to fuel capacity. 

You then get to the significant downgrade to the appeal of the route to tourists. The X18 has been heavily promoted by Arriva and NCC in recent years as a great way to see the coast, which is fair enough as from the top deck of a vehicle you have a fairly good view. Unless there are some particular nice hedges I don’t see how the same can be achieved from a single deck vehicle. 

All of that, and I don’t see how anyone can argue that any of the points made aren’t serious issues with this mental plan, for at best a few minutes worth of gain? Comparing times to the 418, this literally saves 2 minutes compared to the current X18 route.

Time will tell, but I guess all we can say is, I very much doubt this has been done by Arriva without consideration of all factors involved.

There could well be other, significant, mitigating factors that are not immediately obvious to the armchair network planners on this forum.

(08 Feb 2025, 2:00 pm)Superman wrote Time will tell, but I guess all we can say is, I very much doubt this has been done by Arriva without consideration of all factors involved.

There could well be other, significant, mitigating factors that are not immediately obvious to the armchair network planners on this forum.

Arriva don’t exactly have the best track record of making positive changes to rectify service performance, multiple services across the NE are testament to that. As I previously pointed out, this particular change saves a total of 2 minutes in each direction which hardly seems worth it given all the extra changes and service downgrades which are required in response. 

Of course there could be other factors, though realistically they’d need to include an order of some B8RLEs (or similar) to be able to reliably operate it - which given the changes commence in just over a months time, seems unlikely. Day one will inevitably be fine, and the two SDs allocated will complete the board, but longer term allocating lightweight vehicles near the end of their life to a demanding service is asking for trouble. 

There’s nothing immediately apparent that would suggest any pressure will be taken off the 10:08 from Newcastle either. 

Thinking back to many changes, across all operators, over the years, ‘armchair network planners’ on forums such as this have often been correct in their scepticism on service changes.

(08 Feb 2025, 2:36 pm)PH - BQA wrote Arriva don’t exactly have the best track record of making positive changes to rectify service performance, multiple services across the NE are testament to that. As I previously pointed out, this particular change saves a total of 2 minutes in each direction which hardly seems worth it given all the extra changes and service downgrades which are required in response. 

Of course there could be other factors, though realistically they’d need to include an order of some B8RLEs (or similar) to be able to reliably operate it - which given the changes commence in just over a months time, seems unlikely. Day one will inevitably be fine, and the two SDs allocated will complete the board, but longer term allocating lightweight vehicles near the end of their life to a demanding service is asking for trouble. 

There’s nothing immediately apparent that would suggest any pressure will be taken off the 10:08 from Newcastle either. 

Thinking back to many changes, across all operators, over the years, ‘armchair network planners’ on forums such as this have often been correct in their scepticism on service changes.

I'm not 100% sure here, but isn't the X18 North of Alnwick subsidised by NCC - I'm sure it is.

Possible they might have forced to move through to give Denwick and Alnwick Gardens a more frequent service possibly and also to run the same route at the 418.

(08 Feb 2025, 10:34 am)Storx wrote I haven't seen the buses in recent years, must admit, but won't this be a serious capacity issue in the Summer months? They used to be packed to the rafters with people heading up to Seahouses etc, in the paat.

Obviously not much of an issue in February but it's not a million miles away.

Possibly, but given Arriva do the bare minimum to publicise such an obvious tourist route, nobody will tell the difference

(08 Feb 2025, 5:46 pm)Storx wrote I'm not 100% sure here, but isn't the X18 North of Alnwick subsidised by NCC - I'm sure it is.

Possible they might have forced to move through to give Denwick and Alnwick Gardens a more frequent service possibly and also to run the same route at the 418.

At least some of the X18 north of Alnwick is NCC funded, but there’s nothing about that in anything I’ve seen. Remember that NCC promote the X18 heavily as a way to see Northumberland, I’d be incredibly surprised if they were the reason behind this change.

Realistically Alnwick Gardens are easily accessible from the current stops at the Playhouse.

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(08 Feb 2025, 5:51 pm)DeltaMan wrote Possibly, but given Arriva do the bare minimum to publicise such an obvious tourist route, nobody will tell the difference

I’ve actually seen a fair amount of printed Arriva literature for the X18 recently, dotted about various train stations (they were definitely in Morpeth station last time I was there in November). NCC heavily promote it too.

(08 Feb 2025, 7:08 pm)PH - BQA wrote At least some of the X18 north of Alnwick is NCC funded, but there’s nothing about that in anything I’ve seen. Remember that NCC promote the X18 heavily as a way to see Northumberland, I’d be incredibly surprised if they were the reason behind this change.

Realistically Alnwick Gardens are easily accessible from the current stops at the Playhouse.

Yeah no arguments about Alnwick Gardens, can't really comment as I don't know either way though.

To be honest, it's a shame Northumberland Council couldn't tender a short route running from Alnwick to Longhoughton via Alnmouth Station, Willowburn, Lesbury and Boulmer connecting with the trains and X18/X20 for onward travel. Means you could then just send the X18 direct to Craster and sort the Decker issue and give those villages a better service aswell as they're quite sizable communities really.

If some where like Linton, Cambois or the fields between Morpeth and Ponteland can get hourly services then I don't see why these villages don't deserve one either tbh. They're quite large communities.

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/...wear-areas

The changes, not sure where these buses are coming from which are supposed to be running this X30 mind - which surely is the point of the new railway line anyway...? Similar to the extra buses on the X18 since the buses were took by Whitby. Neither can barely run a days service as it is.

Glad to see the 57/57A change in Whitley Bay, mentioned it a few times and would save a few minutes but offer new links especially to the seafront rather than wasting time trying to get to the bus stops outside the ex HSBC. Mind the writing could be better to say go around the loop rather than there's no bus...

Reading through these changes i do like them. It's nice to see the way Arriva has improved loads recently. I like the way they are using the BSIP and using it to the advantage of getting people a bus services. Out of the main big 3. I'd say Arriva have used it well despite what people on here think who just seem to hate on every single route that a company does or makes changes to

Since BSIP Arriva have took advantage and used it really well bringing in new services to connect with towns & villages that haven't seen a proper bus service for years. The return of certain routes and the extending does really well. I hate to say it but I think Stagecoach & Gne need to think about using BSIP not saying Stagecoach used it badly but did the 1 really need to go Every 7 minutes considering it seems the 1 just follows the bus in front now and u will occasionally see two buses running together with one being empty.

Gne I'm not even gonna get started but can't see what they have used to improve

(14 Feb 2025, 9:54 pm)Storx wrote https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/...wear-areas

The changes, not sure where these buses are coming from which are supposed to be running this X30 mind - which surely is the point of the new railway line anyway...? Similar to the extra buses on the X18 since the buses were took by Whitby. Neither can barely run a days service as it is.

The X30 will be interworking with the X20 I believe, so it’s an additional 2 on the PVR for Ashington. There will be vehicle movements ahead of these service changes, as the 4x Ashington 43 boards are moving across to Blyth ahead of the services converting to electric operation. 

The extra bus on the X18 on a Saturday will be fine as there’s a reduced PVR at Ashington anyway on a Saturday with the X21/22/35 being every 30 mins. In the summer they’ll essentially use what is currently the school bus (although that’ll be used elsewhere, and a Pulsar will be sent for the X18…). 

I believe the X20 was meant to be getting significantly retimed to improve punctuality too, which is allowed for by the interworking with the X30, but this has been omitted from the service update.

Just on the vehicle front, I believe Ashington currently have 1574, 1575, 1576, 7529, 7545, and 7547 off with either major unit failures or accident damage. You’d imagine at least some of those would be back by the time these changes come into effect.

(15 Feb 2025, 8:36 am)Aaron21 wrote Reading through these changes i do like them. It's nice to see the way Arriva has improved loads recently. I like the way they are using the BSIP and using it to the advantage of getting people a bus services. Out of the main big 3. I'd say Arriva have used it well despite what people on here think who just seem to hate on every single route that a company does or makes changes to

Since BSIP Arriva have took advantage and used it really well bringing in new services to connect with towns & villages that haven't seen a proper bus service for years. The return of certain routes and the extending does really well. I hate to say it but I think Stagecoach & Gne need to think about using BSIP not saying Stagecoach used it badly but did the 1 really need to go Every 7 minutes considering it seems the 1 just follows the bus in front now and u will occasionally see two buses running together with one being empty.

Gne I'm not even gonna get started but can't see what they have used to improve

That’s not how BSIP works.

Bus companies don’t decide, it’s the authorities.

So it’s actually Northumberland County Council who’ve used it well, not Arriva.

(15 Feb 2025, 9:36 am)PH - BQA wrote The X30 will be interworking with the X20 I believe, so it’s an additional 2 on the PVR for Ashington. There will be vehicle movements ahead of these service changes, as the 4x Ashington 43 boards are moving across to Blyth ahead of the services converting to electric operation. 

The extra bus on the X18 on a Saturday will be fine as there’s a reduced PVR at Ashington anyway on a Saturday with the X21/22/35 being every 30 mins. In the summer they’ll essentially use what is currently the school bus (although that’ll be used elsewhere, and a Pulsar will be sent for the X18…). 

I believe the X20 was meant to be getting significantly retimed to improve punctuality too, which is allowed for by the interworking with the X30, but this has been omitted from the service update.

Just on the vehicle front, I believe Ashington currently have 1574, 1575, 1576, 7529, 7545, and 7547 off with either major unit failures or accident damage. You’d imagine at least some of those would be back by the time these changes come into effect.

Yeah that makes sense was wondering what the X30 was interworking with since it had 20 minutes plus in Haymarket which is less than ideal as an understatement.

I suppose if Ashington is running it then they have gained a few extra Pulsars in recent times aswell with 1404 staying now and the extra Pulsar from Merseyside since they only replaced 3 Solo's when they came - whether the last 2 actually get withdrawn, who knows. Mind I assume 1404 is on the dead list aswell currently.

It'll be interesting to see what goes to Blyth as in theory it should be 7557/8/60/62 but they're complete crocks as an understatement which won't help the problems at Blyth if the electrics aren't due imminitely.

Will the X18 boards requiring a single decker not mean a bus change, marked as CB in the timetable?

(15 Feb 2025, 10:57 am)L469 YVK wrote Will the X18 boards requiring a single decker not mean a bus change, marked as CB in the timetable?

Looking at the timetable, all journeys are going the same way, none of them are down to serve Denwick.

(14 Feb 2025, 9:54 pm)Storx wrote https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/...wear-areas

The changes, not sure where these buses are coming from which are supposed to be running this X30 mind - which surely is the point of the new railway line anyway...? Similar to the extra buses on the X18 since the buses were took by Whitby. Neither can barely run a days service as it is.

Glad to see the 57/57A change in Whitley Bay, mentioned it a few times and would save a few minutes but offer new links especially to the seafront rather than wasting time trying to get to the bus stops outside the ex HSBC. Mind the writing could be better to say go around the loop rather than there's no bus...

Maybe it’s for those people who don’t live near a station or don’t want to pay an extra fare to the station. The walk to my nearest station is 20 minutes, the nearest bus stop about 3 minutes. I will walk to the station if it’s a nice day but certainly not in the rain or cold.

(15 Feb 2025, 4:17 pm)RMF1254 wrote Maybe it’s for those people who don’t live near a station or don’t want to pay an extra fare to the station. The walk to my nearest station is 20 minutes, the nearest bus stop about 3 minutes. I will walk to the station if it’s a nice day but certainly not in the rain or cold.

My only criticism.....why not re-route via East Cramlington? Quite a few houses popped up on the Barley Meadows Estate and still quite a walk from Delaval Station.

Something like the screenshot. It wouldn't add too much extra time either.

(15 Feb 2025, 4:17 pm)RMF1254 wrote Maybe it’s for those people who don’t live near a station or don’t want to pay an extra fare to the station. The walk to my nearest station is 20 minutes, the nearest bus stop about 3 minutes. I will walk to the station if it’s a nice day but certainly not in the rain or cold.

aye, but imo you'd be better doing a local bus service connecting with the trains instead so say if you wanted to go to Blyth Town Centre, when you step off the train from Newcastle the hopper service is there waiting to pick you up to do the last mile with reduced fares or even included with the POP Card to try and promote smart card usage.

It's a problem anyway getting into Blyth and, if advertised well, I can't see why it wouldn't do alright. It's basically the same as the 434 is but doing Blyth instead.

For people who don't want to change the commercial X10/X11 exists already.

(15 Feb 2025, 4:56 pm)L469 YVK wrote My only criticism.....why not re-route via East Cramlington? Quite a few houses popped up on the Barley Meadows Estate and still quite a walk from Delaval Station.

Something like the screenshot. It wouldn't add too much extra time either.

It would add around 7 mins to the timetable, and you may as well operate via the Ann Welfare vice the A189 too.

Better use of taxpayer money...

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(15 Feb 2025, 10:57 am)L469 YVK wrote Will the X18 boards requiring a single decker not mean a bus change, marked as CB in the timetable?

Looks like they're running the extra X18 journeys without needing to recast shifts or rotas, hence the change of bus at Alnwick so the core service is mostly unchanged.

(15 Feb 2025, 9:52 am)Storx wrote I suppose if Ashington is running it then they have gained a few extra Pulsars in recent times aswell with 1404 staying now and the extra Pulsar from Merseyside since they only replaced 3 Solo's when they came - whether the last 2 actually get withdrawn, who knows. Mind I assume 1404 is on the dead list aswell currently.

It'll be interesting to see what goes to Blyth as in theory it should be 7557/8/60/62 but they're complete crocks as an understatement which won't help the problems at Blyth if the electrics aren't due imminitely.

Yeah I forgot about 1404, believe that’s major unit too. 

In fairness to them, 7557 is the main issue from what I can see. I know it was having serious issues with overheating last year. 7558 has just had work done and is working well. 7560 seems limited to schools at present but does them daily, so I assume it’s waiting for a part to allow it to return to full service work. 7562 has just completed 3 consecutive days of Alnwick express work without issue, 2 of which were on the X15 where it performed very well by all accounts, and it is finishing at Alnwick again tonight.

(15 Feb 2025, 6:44 pm)PH - BQA wrote Yeah I forgot about 1404, believe that’s major unit too. 

In fairness to them, 7557 is the main issue from what I can see. I know it was having serious issues with overheating last year. 7558 has just had work done and is working well. 7560 seems limited to schools at present but does them daily, so I assume it’s waiting for a part to allow it to return to full service work. 7562 has just completed 3 consecutive days of Alnwick express work without issue, 2 of which were on the X15 where it performed very well by all accounts, and it is finishing at Alnwick again tonight.

Yeah noticed they've been on the 57/57A quite a lot lately which is a bit inappropiate but I guess it's one the easiest routes which is near the depot. 

I know it would add extra vehicles, but from an operation stand point it's a shame there isn't a way to split the X21 and 35 again so the 35 can turn into the dumping ground route for elderly / unhealthy vehicles since it's quite an easy route.

Would help not having the MMC's which are better for the long distance and expresses on it aswell.

With the new 419 running between Morpeth and Wallington Hall this year, will the X75 still be running from Newcastle to Belsay & Wallington?

(15 Feb 2025, 1:50 pm)Superman wrote Looking at the timetable, all journeys are going the same way, none of them are down to serve Denwick.

It's positive that they look to have gone back on the initial plan, there was clearly intent to promote the service this summer given the additional runs north of Alnwick so the stress placed onto single deck vehicles from Newcastle would have been incredibly hard to deal with.

(15 Feb 2025, 4:56 pm)L469 YVK wrote My only criticism.....why not re-route via East Cramlington? Quite a few houses popped up on the Barley Meadows Estate and still quite a walk from Delaval Station.

Something like the screenshot. It wouldn't add too much extra time either.

(15 Feb 2025, 6:25 pm)omnicity4659 wrote It would add around 7 mins to the timetable, and you may as well operate via the Ann Welfare vice the A189 too.

Better use of taxpayer money...

I think it's pretty clear that the X30 is designed to provide Blyth with a true express service, in a similar fashion to the X20, so any additional diversion would be rather counter productive. This is timed for 44 mins from Blyth to Newcastle, adding 7 mins for East Cramlington and then another few for Ann Welfare would essentially take you to just a few mins short of an X10/11 - which misses the point of this entirely. There are already enough Blyth 'express' routes which serve a fair chunk of communities before finally going to Newcastle, this is arguably the best way to make this service successful enough to be ran commercially once BSIP runs out.

The new line won't serve Blyth itself, so for those in the town centre this should be fairly appealing, and I believe it is also timed to connect with trains at Newsham. 

FWIW, the current 0636 X30 tends to have enough on to fill all seats on a Pulsar (with standing on occasion) when I see it each morning - or fills a decker to about 70%.

(17 Feb 2025, 9:02 pm)PH - BQA wrote I think it's pretty clear that the X30 is designed to provide Blyth with a true express service, in a similar fashion to the X20, so any additional diversion would be rather counter productive. This is timed for 44 mins from Blyth to Newcastle, adding 7 mins for East Cramlington and then another few for Ann Welfare would essentially take you to just a few mins short of an X10/11 - which misses the point of this entirely. There are already enough Blyth 'express' routes which serve a fair chunk of communities before finally going to Newcastle, this is arguably the best way to make this service successful enough to be ran commercially once BSIP runs out.

The new line won't serve Blyth itself, so for those in the town centre this should be fairly appealing, and I believe it is also timed to connect with trains at Newsham. 

FWIW, the current 0636 X30 tends to have enough on to fill all seats on a Pulsar (with standing on occasion) when I see it each morning - or fills a decker to about 70%.

See I don't think it'll ever be commercially viable as it's going to take a dent on the X10/X11, add the railway line into the mix then they could be rather empty leaving Blyth. I don't know what the picking up is like in Cramlington but it's a very car orientated place, not the sort of place, where buses generally do well.

Assuming a fair chunk of people move from the train to Newcastle, do we really need 9 buses an hour from South Blyth / Newsham heading towards Newcastle? 6 of them via Cramlington aswell. It's complete overkill.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.04822...FQAw%3D%3D - imo going into Blyth on a route like this would be better use of the X30 and give the parts of Blyth with no service (parts of Cowpen) or the extrememly slow X9. Least you're not competing against the X8/X10/X11 which are very likely going to be crippled by the train in parts. The X9 on the other hand has potentially to grow with the massive new housing developments popping up at the West side of Cramlington.