(16 Oct 2015, 5:01 pm)Michael wrote But the 56 doesn't go to the Galleries

What about on Saturday and Sunday mornings.....

(16 Oct 2015, 4:59 pm)JP6004 wrote Yes they are normally big queues, however they fill up the bus nicely. Think GNE would rather have a 3/4 to full bus on a 10 min frequency rather than pay extra for 7/8min frequency and only have bus half full. Probably part of the same reasoning why the 56 was cut to every 12mins.

As far as Im aware all the 21's (well the ones that don't run together) are generally quite busy. Plus the 21 stops at every stop along Durham Road, where as the X1 is limited stop

As a passenger; I'd rather be on a slightly less crowded bus and not be queuing for ages for a bus like you occasionally get with the X1 in it's present state. Some X1s terminating short at the Galleries could just help keep things moving on their way. I feel this would improve the service. Although perhaps, as stated, it might be a better idea to just have this implication at peak times.

(16 Oct 2015, 5:01 pm)Michael wrote But the 56 doesn't go to the Galleries

The N56 does.

(16 Oct 2015, 4:55 pm)R852 PRG wrote I've never seen a short queue for the X1 when I've been at the Galleries, it's usually extending beyond the bottom of the escalators. The main aim of my suggest is to offer an improved service from Washington to Newcastle, as this is without a doubt it's busiest section. I personally think this extended frequency is justified throughout the entire day; do you think the short Chester-le-Street to Newcastle 21s are justified during the day? 


Think it's five years for the Green Bus Fund; they cope very well in my opinion, it would be a strange decision to move them elsewhere in my opinion. Can see 6056-6070 being allocated to the 21 for at least another five years. Then again, we can't predict the mechanical state of them then.

I don't use the 21, as i'm not from the area so can't do a review on how well they are, its odd, that they decided to change the frequency after the Green Bus Fund awarded them the funding so they don't have 2 high spec buses out at the same time as the Hybrids... was hoping that would be sorted but looks like it won't be. ..until they get new buses.

We never know they might get upgraded after 5 years although, like you said they might stay on the route longer.... honestly i have no idea where they would go....

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(16 Oct 2015, 5:03 pm)JP6004 wrote What about on Saturday and Sunday mornings.....

But it doesn't offer any links at 2am..........

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(16 Oct 2015, 5:03 pm)S813 FVK wrote The N56 does.

Different service... it doesn't off any links to other buses at 2am... haha


I think they should try a X1 nightly service...

(16 Oct 2015, 5:03 pm)S813 FVK wrote The N56 does.

Whats an "N" between friends 

(16 Oct 2015, 4:55 pm)R852 PRG wrote I've never seen a short queue for the X1 when I've been at the Galleries, it's usually extending beyond the bottom of the escalators. The main aim of my suggestion is to offer an improved service from Washington to Newcastle, as this is without a doubt it's busiest section. I personally think this extended frequency is justified throughout the entire day; do you think the short Chester-le-Street to Newcastle 21s are justified during the day? 

Yes, although not officially confirmed, excluding all Busways operations, the 21 is probably the most well used and profitable route in the North East closely followed by Arriva's 308 or the Fab 56 / Red Arrows.

I'd like to see Citaros or Versas for the Waggonway services, because I think the 4956-4960 are too old, and they struggle going up the long bank

(16 Oct 2015, 8:51 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Yes, although not officially confirmed, excluding all Busways operations, the 21 is probably the most well used and profitable route in the North East closely followed by Arriva's 308 or the Fab 56 / Red Arrows.

That's a bit of a guesstimate though, isn't it? None of this information is in the public domain, and it won't ever be. Not as long as we have a commercial market up here.

(18 Oct 2015, 11:36 am)Davie wrote I'd like to see Citaros or Versas for the Waggonway services, because I think the 4956-4960 are too old, and they struggle going up the long bank

Wouldn't mind Citaros on the route but i think it'll be a while before the scania's are replaced.... Streetlites wouldn't be bad on the routes either.

The Streetlites would look quite good in Waggonway livery.

(18 Oct 2015, 11:36 am)Davie wrote I'd like to see Citaros or Versas for the Waggonway services, because I think the 4956-4960 are too old, and they struggle going up the long bank

could get Eclipses on 28/28A the 3rd version ive ridden on this and it isn't a bad bus if am honest saying that though Streetdeck for X21 will push the current vehicles on there to other depots to be used on any service saying that though i am a big fan of the 2 vehicles

(18 Oct 2015, 11:36 am)Davie wrote I'd like to see Citaros or Versas for the Waggonway services, because I think the 4956-4960 are too old, and they struggle going up the long bank

I personally think 4956-4960 handle the route quite well. It's a killer route full-stop, I personally think the Prestiges handled the route well but they too were aging and needed to be replaced. Aside from the fact that they rattled like a box of nails; the throaty roar of the DAF engine with the ZF gearbox was just perfect. They struggled up banks as well; in my opinion, it's one of those routes that just kills the vehicles that operate on it. Mercedes Citaros, while expensive, could be a good choice for the routes. I wouldn't rush into sourcing a replacement for 4956-4960 though, perhaps in two or three years when they are expected to be withdrawn.

Versas are just a no go for a demanding route such as the 28/28A. End of that conversation.

(18 Oct 2015, 2:52 pm)R852 PRG wrote I personally think 4956-4960 handle the route quite well. It's a killer route full-stop, I personally think the Prestiges handled the route well but they too were aging and needed to be replaced. Aside from the fact that they rattled like a box of nails; the throaty roar of the DAF engine with the ZF gearbox was just perfect. They struggled up banks as well; in my opinion, it's one of those routes that just kills the vehicles that operate on it. Mercedes Citaros, while expensive, could be a good choice for the routes. I wouldn't rush into sourcing a replacement for 4956-4960 though, perhaps in two or three years when they are expected to be withdrawn.

Versas are just a no go for a demanding route such as the 28/28A. End of that conversation.

I agree the Prestiges were fantastic machines. I think the if 4956-4960 got replaced they could transfer to Percy Main so 5 Dual door Renowns can be withdrawn.

(18 Oct 2015, 2:55 pm)Davie wrote I agree the Prestiges were fantastic machines. I think the if 4956-4960 got replaced they could transfer to Percy Main so 5 Dual door Renowns can be withdrawn.

I'd have thought the remainder of Percy Mains' ex-Oxford B10BLEs could possibly be phased out by the end of the year if a few transfers take place. If not, they'll have to be modified to become DDA-compliant. I don't think the 28/28A are desperately in need of new(er) buses at this stage, and I predict 4956-4960 will spend the rest of their working lives on the routes. They are 52-reg, which makes means they are thirteen years of age. Their shelf life is only around 16 years I believe, so only a few more years until they are expected to be withdrawn. Then, perhaps, the 28/28A could see new buses.

(18 Oct 2015, 3:00 pm)R852 PRG wrote I'd have thought the remainder of Percy Mains' ex-Oxford B10BLEs could possibly be phased out by the end of the year if a few transfers take place. If not, they'll have to be modified to become DDA-compliant. I don't think the 28/28A are desperately in need of new(er) buses at this stage, and I predict 4956-4960 will spend the rest of their working lives on the routes. They are 52-reg, which makes means they are thirteen years of age. Their shelf life is only around 16 years I believe, so only a few more years until they are expected to be withdrawn. Then, perhaps, the 28/28A could see new buses.

True, that happened with TOON LINK and LIME

They also have the ones from the FAB 57 when they become free... if the Citaros go on the 57.. which seems likely.

Would also make sense to repaint the FAB 57 duel doors so they can replace 5 of the 1999 ones at Percy Main...

(18 Oct 2015, 4:06 pm)Michael wrote They also have the ones from the FAB 57 when they become free... if the Citaros go on the 57.. which seems likely.

Would also make sense to repaint the FAB 57 duel doors so they can replace 5 of the 1999 ones at Percy Main...

I think 5167-5171 will also be withdrawn.

(18 Oct 2015, 4:08 pm)Davie wrote I think 5167-5171 will also be withdrawn.

Never know, they might be but it just seems silly when they can replace some of the 1999 ones.

Rather than replacing the 1999 ones, why cant they just sell them straight on? High book value = more money for them. Especially as a lot of them seem to be getting sold to ensign rather than alpha for scrap...

(18 Oct 2015, 4:12 pm)S813 FVK wrote Rather than replacing the 1999 ones, why cant they just sell them straight on? High book value = more money for them. Especially as a lot of them seem to be getting sold to ensign rather than alpha for scrap...

They could but the paint job would be crap after they've removed the livery... maybe a repaint and then sell them on, they could sell the 1999 ones though... they're already red.

Wonder if Dan or Citaro could confirm whats happening...?

(18 Oct 2015, 4:15 pm)Michael wrote Wonder if Dan or Citaro could confirm whats happening...?

I cannot see them getting rid of W reg ones with T reg ones still in operation.

(18 Oct 2015, 4:22 pm)citaro5284 wrote I cannot see them getting rid of W reg ones with T reg ones still in operation.

Thought so, would be daft to get rid of the ones from the FAB 57 before the 1999 ones...

(18 Oct 2015, 4:12 pm)S813 FVK wrote Rather than replacing the 1999 ones, why cant they just sell them straight on? High book value = more money for them. Especially as a lot of them seem to be getting sold to ensign rather than alpha for scrap...

I think you've misunderstood what I have previously referred to as "book value".

My understanding is that bus operators have to submit something called a capital expenditure to Go-Ahead, when they wish to spend a large amount of money (ie on new or second-hand vehicles). This is essentially a loan, and bus operators will plan to pay the money back to Go-Ahead over x amount of years, with the asset depreciating in book value over that period of time. Once an asset has fully depreciated, it can then be sold on. Its sale value can be increased in a number of ways; for example, if the vehicle's bodywork is in good condition.

As the Fab57 dual-door Volvo B10BLEs are younger, these will have a higher book value than the T-reg examples, and as such, it is unlikely that these will be disposed of first.

(18 Oct 2015, 11:39 am)Michael wrote The Streetlites would look quite good in Waggonway livery.

Lets see then

I have removed some bits such as the 'every 30 minutes' vinyl and the silver line below the places served. I have also moved the Beamish vinyl onto the engine flap on the rear rather than on the window.

I must get some credit off Dan and Citaro for working on the destinations, full white, arial route number and all that

(18 Oct 2015, 5:48 pm)S813 FVK wrote Lets see then

I have removed some bits such as the 'every 30 minutes' vinyl and the silver line below the places served. I have also moved the Beamish vinyl onto the engine flap on the rear rather than on the window.

I must get some credit off Dan and Citaro for working on the destinations, full white, arial route number and all that

It doesn't look bad at all.

(18 Oct 2015, 5:49 pm)Michael wrote It doesn't look bad at all.

I agree, if they want a demo they can use 5409

(18 Oct 2015, 4:06 pm)Michael wrote They also have the ones from the FAB 57 when they become free... if the Citaros go on the 57.. which seems likely.

Would also make sense to repaint the FAB 57 duel doors so they can replace 5 of the 1999 ones at Percy Main...

One or two of the branded examples on the 57 sound (and look) very rough, both internally and externally.

It is a year or so since I have seen the Percy Main examples close up, so can't comment on what they are like at all. Or, if they have had the Fresh n Vac smell!

(19 Oct 2015, 12:05 pm)Andreos1 wrote One or two of the branded examples on the 57 sound (and look) very rough, both internally and externally.

It is a year or so since I have seen the Percy Main examples close up, so can't comment on what they are like at all. Or, if they have had the Fresh n Vac smell!

I haven't really used the FAB 57 duel doors, i used one of Percy Mains a while back when i used the 9.... it was terrible.... either way.. i hope all of them are gone by 1st January............

(19 Oct 2015, 12:27 pm)Michael wrote I haven't really used the FAB 57 duel doors, i used one of Percy Mains a while back when i used the 9.... it was terrible.... either way.. i hope all of them are gone by 1st January............

It is a few months since my last stint of using the 57 regularly, ended. Although I have seen a few in Heworth since and it didn't look like there had been much improvement.
I know you will hate this next line - but I was quite relieved to see one of your much-maligned Vykings turn up when I used the 57 last!

Neither work nor pleasure have given me the opportunity to get on the 9 recently. There was a short spell last year and to be honest, the ones I used (can't remember which), weren't too bad at the time.

(19 Oct 2015, 12:59 pm)Andreos1 wrote It is a few months since my last stint of using the 57 regularly, ended. Although I have seen a few in Heworth since and it didn't look like there had been much improvement.
I know you will hate this next line - but I was quite relieved to see one of your much-maligned Vykings turn up when I used the 57 last!

Neither work nor pleasure have given me the opportunity to get on the 9 recently. There was a short spell last year and to be honest, the ones I used (can't remember which), weren't too bad at the time.

And that says something!

Seen this comment on Go North East Enthusiasts News Facebook page:

Anyone confirm rumours about 9x new Volvo Tri Axle NX coaches ordered for CLS Depot?


Its just a rumour and i'm just posting to share it.