(30 Jun 2013, 8:49 am)aureolin wrote Maybe it's just me, but the X21 always seems to be quite busy between Durham and Chester, and then Chester and Newcastle?? Whenever I use it it seems to be the case. I don't think the single deck Scanias could cope with that.

Seems very popular with the grey haired passengers. I've always seen healthy loads on the 'Pizza' bus around twirly time but I've seen them nigh on empty outside of that time. Not sure whether for cost efficiency you just set an hourly 21 up off to Bishop

If you do keep it

Re- OK brand. I'm not sure about it on the X21 (despite saying I was). It's 15 years since the OK brand disappeared

I'd go for something like Angel Express (not green as I imagine whatever goes on won't be hybrid or green) or trentbarton plain livery with route X21 on it.

I think the axing of the OK1 could go to ways
1) GNE try again with possibly some local routes around Bishop and Crook.
Or
2) They'll pull out the 18 will either go to an other operator or axe it and the X21 just merging into a 21 service (as mentioned above) operated by Chester.

I would like to see them keep on in bishop and the area, but now they are losing the OK1, Crook depot will be down to just 2 half-hourly routes with 10 vehicles I'm not sure if a depot so small is commercially attractive. I suppose time will tell what happens..

(30 Jun 2013, 12:35 pm)CatsFast101 wrote I think the axing of the OK1 could go to ways
1) GNE try again with possibly some local routes around Bishop and Crook.
Or
2) They'll pull out the 18 will either go to an other operator or axe it and the X21 just merging into a 21 service (as mentioned above) operated by Chester.

I would like to see them keep on in bishop and the area, but now they are losing the OK1, Crook depot will be down to just 2 half-hourly routes with 10 vehicles I'm not sure if a depot so small is commercially attractive. I suppose time will tell what happens..

The crook depot is shared with and owned by Weardale, so there will be more than 10 Buses in the Depot, so commercially it isn't that bad

---

(30 Jun 2013, 12:35 pm)CatsFast101 wrote I think the axing of the OK1 could go to ways
1) GNE try again with possibly some local routes around Bishop and Crook.
Or
2) They'll pull out the 18 will either go to an other operator or axe it and the X21 just merging into a 21 service (as mentioned above) operated by Chester.

I would like to see them keep on in bishop and the area, but now they are losing the OK1, Crook depot will be down to just 2 half-hourly routes with 10 vehicles I'm not sure if a depot so small is commercially attractive. I suppose time will tell what happens..

The crook depot is shared with and owned by Weardale, so there will be more than 10 Buses in the Depot, so commercially it isn't that bad

---

Here is my plan on what GNE should do, Basically it's simple, go head2head with Arriva by offering improved services/cheaper fares etc.

X21 Bishop Auckland - Spennymoor - Croxdale - Durham - Framwellgate Moor - Chester-le-Street - Gateshead - Newcastle (Under OK Expressway Brand) Every 30 Minutes – Monday – Saturday – Hourly on Sundays

X46 - Crook – Willington – Brancepeth – Meadowfield – Langley Moor – Durham
(Under OK Expressway Brand) Every 15 Minutes – Monday – Saturday – Every 30 Minutes on Sundays
In it's current form it is a works service, but now it'll operate throughout the day against Arriva Service 46

OK1 – Durham – Croxdale – Spennymoor - Bishop Auckland – Tindale Crescent – St Helen Auckland - West Auckland – Cockerton – Darlington
( Every 10 Minutes Monday to Saturday – Sundays Every 20 Minutes)
OK2 – Darlington - N. Aycliffe - Woodham - Ferryhill - Chilton – Durham
( Every 10 Minutes Monday to Saturday – Sundays Every 20 Minutes)
OK3 - Durham – Coxhoe – Ferryhill – Bishop Auckland
Every 15 Minutes Monday – Saturday – Sundays Every 30 Minutes

These 3 Services would mount a direct challenge to Arriva Services 6/7/56 and 56A, with improved frequencies compared to Arriva between Durham – Bishop Auckland and Darlington.

18 - Woodhouse Close – Cockton Hill Road - Bishop Auckland – Canney Hill - Coundon
Every 30 Minutes Monday – Sunday

Now currently GNE don't have the Numbers Bus Wise for this to work unless they were to get some Buses Second hand from other Go-Ahead Operators or from EnsignBus until Newer Buses were ordered and had arrived for Service.

I would also have an official launch with flyers/timetables been sent to residents of those Areas with various discounts on fares, They'd also receive a KeyCard if they don't already have one for further discounts to then gain some more passengers from Arriva.

There would then be official lauches like the Quaylink in Durham City Centre/Durham Howlands Park and Ride Site/Bishop Auckland and Darlington aswell as a load of Online promotions through Simplygo.com/GNE Twitter/Facebook.

4944 was on the 28's today.

4987 (Waggonway branded) was running alongside an empty un-ID'd Waggonway DAF through Birtley, the empty DAF which I assumed had an issue ran straight through Durham Road to Picktree Lane

(30 Jun 2013, 2:50 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote

(30 Jun 2013, 12:35 pm)CatsFast101 wrote I think the axing of the OK1 could go to ways
1) GNE try again with possibly some local routes around Bishop and Crook.
Or
2) They'll pull out the 18 will either go to an other operator or axe it and the X21 just merging into a 21 service (as mentioned above) operated by Chester.

I would like to see them keep on in bishop and the area, but now they are losing the OK1, Crook depot will be down to just 2 half-hourly routes with 10 vehicles I'm not sure if a depot so small is commercially attractive. I suppose time will tell what happens..

The crook depot is shared with and owned by Weardale, so there will be more than 10 Buses in the Depot, so commercially it isn't that bad

---

(30 Jun 2013, 12:35 pm)CatsFast101 wrote I think the axing of the OK1 could go to ways
1) GNE try again with possibly some local routes around Bishop and Crook.
Or
2) They'll pull out the 18 will either go to an other operator or axe it and the X21 just merging into a 21 service (as mentioned above) operated by Chester.

I would like to see them keep on in bishop and the area, but now they are losing the OK1, Crook depot will be down to just 2 half-hourly routes with 10 vehicles I'm not sure if a depot so small is commercially attractive. I suppose time will tell what happens..

The crook depot is shared with and owned by Weardale, so there will be more than 10 Buses in the Depot, so commercially it isn't that bad

---

Here is my plan on what GNE should do, Basically it's simple, go head2head with Arriva by offering improved services/cheaper fares etc.

X21 Bishop Auckland - Spennymoor - Croxdale - Durham - Framwellgate Moor - Chester-le-Street - Gateshead - Newcastle (Under OK Expressway Brand) Every 30 Minutes – Monday – Saturday – Hourly on Sundays

X46 - Crook – Willington – Brancepeth – Meadowfield – Langley Moor – Durham
(Under OK Expressway Brand) Every 15 Minutes – Monday – Saturday – Every 30 Minutes on Sundays
In it's current form it is a works service, but now it'll operate throughout the day against Arriva Service 46

OK1 – Durham – Croxdale – Spennymoor - Bishop Auckland – Tindale Crescent – St Helen Auckland - West Auckland – Cockerton – Darlington
( Every 10 Minutes Monday to Saturday – Sundays Every 20 Minutes)
OK2 – Darlington - N. Aycliffe - Woodham - Ferryhill - Chilton – Durham
( Every 10 Minutes Monday to Saturday – Sundays Every 20 Minutes)
OK3 - Durham – Coxhoe – Ferryhill – Bishop Auckland
Every 15 Minutes Monday – Saturday – Sundays Every 30 Minutes

These 3 Services would mount a direct challenge to Arriva Services 6/7/56 and 56A, with improved frequencies compared to Arriva between Durham – Bishop Auckland and Darlington.

18 - Woodhouse Close – Cockton Hill Road - Bishop Auckland – Canney Hill - Coundon
Every 30 Minutes Monday – Sunday

Now currently GNE don't have the Numbers Bus Wise for this to work unless they were to get some Buses Second hand from other Go-Ahead Operators or from EnsignBus until Newer Buses were ordered and had arrived for Service.

I would also have an official launch with flyers/timetables been sent to residents of those Areas with various discounts on fares, They'd also receive a KeyCard if they don't already have one for further discounts to then gain some more passengers from Arriva.

There would then be official lauches like the Quaylink in Durham City Centre/Durham Howlands Park and Ride Site/Bishop Auckland and Darlington aswell as a load of Online promotions through Simplygo.com/GNE Twitter/Facebook.

There's rumours circling that Weardale are wanting GNE out, as well as stories that they are raising the rent, I think, unless GNE find another site in Bishop Auckland (which would then see the end of the X46 as a positioning run altogether), we'll see the second retreat of the company out of Bishop Auckland apart from the X21 (which is the easiest to revert to a Chester-le-Street working, and also would be the end of the X46 as well).

There's rumours circling that Weardale are wanting GNE out, as well as stories that they are raising the rent, I think, unless GNE find another site in Bishop Auckland (which would then see the end of the X46 as a positioning run altogether), we'll see the second retreat of the company out of Bishop Auckland apart from the X21 (which is the easiest to revert to a Chester-le-Street working, and also would be the end of the X46 as well).
[/quote]

That's interesting information, if they were to move out and GNE continued to run the X21/X46 - Would there be enough room for them at chester.

The 18 will probleys go, unless GNE find a new smaller depot up in that area?
--------------
Looking at the latest pics of the new depot at the metrocentre.. Please what are those horrible panels, i hope they re-painted, its like lego!


Pics here... http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1517587&page=2

Diamond branded Citaro 5285 on Lime 78 today departed Chester le Street for Sunderland at 16.58

the 18 wont be dropped as it carriers to many people. The X21 is popular throughout the day but obvious strong competition from the very badly operated 6 does impact on numbers to/from durham.

To play devil's advocate here.

Bishop is 30 miles from Newcastle. To have the level of service it does to Newcastle is pretty good. If you went North of Newcastle (say, Amble around 28 miles from Newcastle) you'd not see the same level of service from Arriva.

The Pronto at Bishop is basically, imo, supported by the link to Durham and commuters into Newcastle at peak times. Looking at a DCC report, car ownership amongst commuters in BA is higher than the average for County Durham.

I'd cut my losses and send 1 Angel an hour (like the old 21 system used to) down to Bishop. I can't help but feel the current system in place just gives otherwise dormant B7's something to do.

(my thoughts are purely commercial and not reflecting the view of a passenger on that route)

(30 Jun 2013, 4:45 pm)nk55 wrote the 18 wont be dropped as it carriers to many people. The X21 is popular throughout the day but obvious strong competition from the very badly operated 6 does impact on numbers to/from durham.

Oh right, wasn't sure on numbers as i haven't being to the area for years.

Least its doing well, could it do with bigger buses?

(30 Jun 2013, 3:23 pm)gtomlinson wrote 4944 was on the 28's today.

4987 (Waggonway branded) was running alongside an empty un-ID'd Waggonway DAF through Birtley, the empty DAF which I assumed had an issue ran straight through Durham Road to Picktree Lane

I was just about to mention 4944 being on the 34 this afternoon.
After it came down Pelaw Bank, it had trouble turning around at Coral's due to a parked decker in the stop.

Why does it not go straight to South Burns when running from a 34 onto a 28, rather than stop on the main street, double back on itself, get stuck at the lights (again) and make its way around the back of the market?

(30 Jun 2013, 5:01 pm)Michael wrote

(30 Jun 2013, 4:45 pm)nk55 wrote the 18 wont be dropped as it carriers to many people. The X21 is popular throughout the day but obvious strong competition from the very badly operated 6 does impact on numbers to/from durham.

Oh right, wasn't sure on numbers as i haven't being to the area for years.

Least its doing well, could it do with bigger buses?

I would say a cadet or versa would be a good increase on the mpd. If on journeys when the 56 is running late or doesn't show then buses get very busy and around woodhouse when the 6 goes bendy and theres a gap more than the supposed 12 minute frequency then again a strain on seats is guaranteed.

(30 Jun 2013, 6:46 pm)nk55 wrote

(30 Jun 2013, 5:01 pm)Michael wrote

(30 Jun 2013, 4:45 pm)nk55 wrote the 18 wont be dropped as it carriers to many people. The X21 is popular throughout the day but obvious strong competition from the very badly operated 6 does impact on numbers to/from durham.

Oh right, wasn't sure on numbers as i haven't being to the area for years.

Least its doing well, could it do with bigger buses?

I would say a cadet or versa would be a good increase on the mpd. If on journeys when the 56 is running late or doesn't show then buses get very busy and around woodhouse when the 6 goes bendy and theres a gap more than the supposed 12 minute frequency then again a strain on seats is guaranteed.

There will be 3 Versas available spare once the streetlites arrive I believe, as the 18/X46, They'll got to Stanley I think and X21 will go to Chester le Street, that's of course if GNE opt to move away from Weardales Crook Depot

Just been thinking that the X21/18 could both be operated from chester. Since they both run every 1/2 an hour and it takes an hour to do a round trip on the 18- they could be interworked so when the X21 arrives at Bishop it does a round trip on the 18s before returning to Newcastle on the X21

(30 Jun 2013, 4:57 pm)gtomlinson wrote To play devil's advocate here.

Bishop is 30 miles from Newcastle. To have the level of service it does to Newcastle is pretty good. If you went North of Newcastle (say, Amble around 28 miles from Newcastle) you'd not see the same level of service from Arriva.

The Pronto at Bishop is basically, imo, supported by the link to Durham and commuters into Newcastle at peak times. Looking at a DCC report, car ownership amongst commuters in BA is higher than the average for County Durham.

I'd cut my losses and send 1 Angel an hour (like the old 21 system used to) down to Bishop. I can't help but feel the current system in place just gives otherwise dormant B7's something to do.

(my thoughts are purely commercial and not reflecting the view of a passenger on that route)

To be fair though, it's a totally different set up between Newcastle and Amble, with it being mainly rural compared to the urburn Gateshead sprawl and suburbs of Durham inc Chester.

GNE obviously feel the need to have some sort of toe, in the section between Durham and Bishop, however it wont be as lucrative as the route North of Durham.

re the other points made: If the rumour of Weardale is true, then GNE can one of two ways - either go for broke, get their own depot and increase their prescence in the area or pull out with a whimper.

Can the deckers the X21 usually require, get around the estates the 18 serve, if the two were to interconnect?
Thinking out loud, would the withdrawal of the OK1 impact on the 18?
Its like Arriva operating 1 minibus around the streets of Town End Farm and Castletown - with the driver bumping into a colleague now and again in Park Lane...

(30 Jun 2013, 8:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote Can the deckers the X21 usually require, get around the estates the 18 serve, if the two were to interconnect?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/danielgrahamm/8432840583/

Happened before (on more occasions than above), can happen again!

(30 Jun 2013, 4:57 pm)gtomlinson wrote To play devil's advocate here.

Bishop is 30 miles from Newcastle. To have the level of service it does to Newcastle is pretty good. If you went North of Newcastle (say, Amble around 28 miles from Newcastle) you'd not see the same level of service from Arriva.

The Pronto at Bishop is basically, imo, supported by the link to Durham and commuters into Newcastle at peak times. Looking at a DCC report, car ownership amongst commuters in BA is higher than the average for County Durham.

I'd cut my losses and send 1 Angel an hour (like the old 21 system used to) down to Bishop. I can't help but feel the current system in place just gives otherwise dormant B7's something to do.

(my thoughts are purely commercial and not reflecting the view of a passenger on that route)

Really don't see how you can begin to compare service from Newcastle to Amble (population about 6,500) and Bishop Auckland (population about 24,500). Of course Bishop has a higher level of service.

Just been thinking and i'm pretty sure some of Arrivas Contracts are to run out in Durham/Bishop Auckland and are up for renewal soon, so possibly we could see GNE nick a few to build a bit of a presence. And also as mentioned before get a Depot in the Area to boost it ever.

And other thing I was thinking was extending the X21 to Darlington as currently there isn't an Xpress between Darlo and Newcastle, I was also thinking why don't GNE buy out Scarlet Band and there services, but obviously keep on the Drivers etc.

Aren't Scarlet Band's services all contracted?

Nooo, you can't be having ANOTHER independant operator being bought out by the big boys.

List of Scarlet Bands Services
http://www.scarletbandbuses.co.uk/timetables.php

Also on there website it says they have 25 Buses which I know Includes some Optare Solos along with a Solo SR, E200 Darts and some Mercedes Sprinter and Fiat Bluebirds, aswell as a few coaches. So they'd be Ideal to take over in my opinion. Plus it open up options for services down in the Weardale Valley etc.

Plus I doubt it cost that much for GNE to takeover Scarlet Band.

Just a thought.

(30 Jun 2013, 9:36 pm)Andreos1 wrote Aren't Scarlet Band's services all contracted?

Nooo, you can't be having ANOTHER independant operator being bought out by the big boys.

All of scarlet bands contracts are due for renewal this year, only won on 1yr contracts so you could see gne open up a new depot in bishop if any are won. Also durham park & ride is up in march next year, so maybe a low cost unit could be established with the X21 being returned to chester & the X46 withdrawn.

I'm not too familiar with the operations of Scarlet Band. They seem to run a lot of services around the Durham/Ferryhill/Spennymoor/Bishop Auckland area, but it's obvious that some services (i.e. 6, 22, 58a) are contract work. Do Scarlet Band they run any services commercially or is it mainly just contract work?

On another note, which GNE depot runs the DCC funded 59 on a Sunday?

EDIT: Beaten to the question!!

(30 Jun 2013, 9:36 pm)Andreos1 wrote Aren't Scarlet Band's services all contracted?

Nooo, you can't be having ANOTHER independant operator being bought out by the big boys.

Apart from the 113 and X49, everything else is contract service. But Scarlet Band won't be for sale.

Also, as Arriva don't really run many Contracts in the Bishop Auckland area anymore (Scarlet Band and JSB operate the majority), nothing for GNE to take from them.

(30 Jun 2013, 8:30 pm)Daniel wrote

(30 Jun 2013, 8:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote Can the deckers the X21 usually require, get around the estates the 18 serve, if the two were to interconnect?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/danielgrahamm/8432840583/

Happened before (on more occasions than above), can happen again!

Deckers handle the route very well, much better than the scanias or any other single deck vehicle that gets dispatched from chester to cover poorly mpds.

Are explorer tickets accepted on scarlet band services? And tbh as controversial as this may seem I think small bus operators are the past, people now travel further afield more often than in the past, so I think now if I had the option of a scarlet band/small local operator service though my town or a GNE/Arriva bus I think I'd know which one I'd choose due to the more range of it tickets options and options of traveling further afield.

(30 Jun 2013, 10:14 pm)CatsFast101 wrote Are explorer tickets accepted on scarlet band services? And tbh as controversial as this may seem I think small bus operators are the past, people now travel further afield more often than in the past, so I think now if I had the option of a scarlet band/small local operator service though my town or a GNE/Arriva bus I think I'd know which one I'd choose due to the more range of it tickets options and options of traveling further afield.

Explorers are valid on their Contract services (so everything bar the 113 and X49).

(30 Jun 2013, 10:14 pm)CatsFast101 wrote Are explorer tickets accepted on scarlet band services? And tbh as controversial as this may seem I think small bus operators are the past, people now travel further afield more often than in the past, so I think now if I had the option of a scarlet band/small local operator service though my town or a GNE/Arriva bus I think I'd know which one I'd choose due to the more range of it tickets options and options of traveling further afield.

What about when the independents have all been bought out or ran into the ground by the bigger boys and a council contract becomes available? As a taxpayer, would you want GNE or Arriva to have the council over a barrel and tender unreasonable prices - or would you want an independent operator, giving a realistic tender, based on lower overheads and margins?

The whole point of de-regulation was to increase competition (we all know it has failed), so these smaller operators are the only thing stopping the big three in the North East having us over a barrel with our pants down (they already have us over the barrel, they just havent got to our pants yet...)

This speculation about Weardale wanting Northern out of their Crook depot is incorrect. The revenue they receive for stabling, fuelling and cleaning the Pronto and OK buses is welcome and the reduction in number from 15 to 10 will make it more manageable as with both the GNE and Weardale vehicles the depot has been rather full.
Further to my post earlier today, I'd still like to see the Pronto re-branded as the OK Expressway using the current Wright/Scanias (with two extra buses liveried as 6 are required plus one spare). Single deckers would cope with most journeys and I've not been on a full Pronto decker. However I would only run one per hour from Bishop, (possibly as OK1 rather than X21 - which has been Weardale's number for their Newcastle bus for decades), but speed it up by limiting stops between Bishop and Durham then stopping only at Durham County Hall and Hospital plus once in Chester-le-Street. To give the 30 minute express frequency between Durham and Newcastle I'd run the other one per hour from Crook (OK2), again limited stop throughout. Aim for long distance passengers on this service and leave Intermediate passengers between Bishop and Durham to the Arriva 6 and between Durham and Newcastle to The Angel. Finally, as I said earlier, I'd get a couple more MPDs in OK Way livery (3 plus one spare) and run the 18 (as OK3) between Coundon, Bishop, West, Evenwood and Cockfield every 30 minutes.