(18 Sep 2017, 5:47 pm)Michael wrote PB0003954/631 Registered (Short notice)
GO NORTH EAST LIMITED
Route: Hexham Bus Station to Bellingham Heritage Centre
Service number: 680 (680S)
Service type: Hail & Ride, Normal Stopping
Effective date: 09 Oct 2017

Temporary timetable and route changes because of closure of Chollerford Bridge. 


During bridge closures journeys will not serve Acomb & will divert via A6079 inc Railway Station to A69 and then use road to Fourstones and onto Chollerford via B6319 and B6318 to rejoin route along B6320. 

Between 09:00-15:30 the timetabled journeys will omit Acomb Ex Hexham 

M-F, Sat; Departs @09:10,11:10 & 13:10 will omit Acomb Ex Bellingham M-F, Sat: Departs @10:00,12:00 & 14:00 will omit Acomb Special service to maintain bus link to Acomb and Wall via A6079. Journey time c17mins. 

Ex Hexham M-F,Sat: Departs @09:10,11:10 & 13:10 Ex Brunton Crossroads M-F,Sat: Departs @10:37,12:37 & 14:37 Hexham


Info from the Northumberland County Council site

Can't they just provide maps? I know my stuff about roads, but that is impossible to follow.

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Does anyone have details of the diversion that the 4 will be facing, when Follingsby Roundabout is closed?
Thought it was just the slip-road off the A194. 
Having seen the signs at Heworth Golf Club, it appears not.

Think it's the weekend approaching that they are starting and I expect delays...

edit:
http://newsroom.gonortheast.co.uk/news/o...ber-260117
Found this hidden away. It's due to finish soon.
Still keen to know the diversion.

(24 Sep 2017, 1:08 pm)Andreos1 wrote Still keen to know the diversion.

I'd seen one running through Springwell Village yesterday night, but whether that's the "official" route, I'm not sure?

I can imagine that after Sunderland College, the bus will turn left on to Stone Cellar Road and run via Peareth Hall Road, Springwell Road and Leam Lane to Lingey Lane.

However, I'm not sure what the one late journey via Follingsby Park is doing?

(24 Sep 2017, 5:07 pm)BJ10VUS wrote I'd seen one running through Springwell Village yesterday night, but whether that's the "official" route, I'm not sure?

I can imagine that after Sunderland College, the bus will turn left on to Stone Cellar Road and run via Peareth Hall Road, Springwell Road and Leam Lane to Lingey Lane.

However, I'm not sure what the one late journey via Follingsby Park is doing?

Cheers.
It makes sense (to me anyway), to use that route - as a the junction at the bottom of Leam Lane with the A184, is restricted.
It's still a canny diversion via Springwell, particularly as the connections with the X1 are limited on an evening and the timetable gives very little room for error as it is.

I may have to re-evaluate my options tomorrow!

Anyone know if new timetables have been/are being printed folowing the service changes at the beginning of the month? Apart from the X5, X9/X10 and X21 the rest seem to be the old ones - despite some not insignificant changes to journeys on some services. Is it delay at printers or cost saving measure to only reprint for major changes? GNE have traditioanlly been good at keeping printed timetables current (if not easily accessible in some areas!)

(29 Sep 2017, 8:49 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Anyone know if new timetables have been/are being printed folowing the service changes at the beginning of the month?  Apart from the X5, X9/X10 and X21 the rest seem to be the old ones - despite some not insignificant changes to journeys on some services.  Is it delay at printers or cost saving measure to only reprint for major changes?  GNE have traditioanlly been good at keeping printed timetables current (if not easily accessible in some areas!)

The traditional methods of providing printed timetables are being moved away from - not only by Go North East, but by Arriva and Stagecoach too. I have found that printed timetables are no longer produced on-bus for either operator any more (excluding Arriva's branded services). Whilst Arriva's timetable holder often remains empty, Stagecoach have replaced it with small 'area guides' with a lot of detail about where services go and what their frequencies are.

Until earlier this year; Go North East was the only operator to continue supplying printed timetables on-bus, and I believe the company wished to move away from this method of providing travel information to customers. Following passenger research undertaken on-bus which suggested that the majority of customers would use another method of finding out the timetable of the bus (either by going on the company's website, Googling it, using the app, or using the Journey Planner tool on Google Maps), I believe a number of timetables weren't produced in line with minor changes on services in July. Customer complaints were in single figures, I understand, suggesting that not many people really do care about having a printed timetable nowadays.

The company recently received some feedback on Social Media about this from a member of this forum recently - which you can see this confirmed by Go North East.

It's not intended as a cost-saving exercise, as the money saved will be used in alternative marketing to try and attract new customers as well as benefit existing customers (with offers such as free day tickets, etc). Door-drops relevant to the service they'd be travelling on, more promotional events, etc.

I personally don't think we're ready to be completely digital yet, but the passenger research and lack of complaints about printed timetables suggests otherwise.

The services you mention were the only ones which Go North East provided with the most recent changes in September - X5 and X21 as the improved Sunday journeys were something they were promoting, and X9/X10 due to the new vehicles, completely new timetable, serving Dalton Park on X10, etc.

(30 Sep 2017, 5:38 am)Dan wrote The traditional methods of providing printed timetables are being moved away from - not only by Go North East, but by Arriva and Stagecoach too. I have found that printed timetables are no longer produced on-bus for either operator any more (excluding Arriva's branded services). Whilst Arriva's timetable holder often remains empty, Stagecoach have replaced it with small 'area guides' with a lot of detail about where services go and what their frequencies are.

Until earlier this year; Go North East was the only operator to continue supplying printed timetables on-bus, and I believe the company wished to move away from this method of providing travel information to customers. Following passenger research undertaken on-bus which suggested that the majority of customers would use another method of finding out the timetable of the bus (either by going on the company's website, Googling it, using the app, or using the Journey Planner tool on Google Maps), I believe a number of timetables weren't produced in line with minor changes on services in July. Customer complaints were in single figures, I understand, suggesting that not many people really do care about having a printed timetable nowadays.

The company recently received some feedback on Social Media about this from a member of this forum recently - which you can see this confirmed by Go North East.

It's not intended as a cost-saving exercise, as the money saved will be used in alternative marketing to try and attract new customers as well as benefit existing customers (with offers such as free day tickets, etc). Door-drops relevant to the service they'd be travelling on, more promotional events, etc.

I personally don't think we're ready to be completely digital yet, but the passenger research and lack of complaints about printed timetables suggests otherwise.

Not everyone has a smartphone.

(30 Sep 2017, 5:38 am)Dan wrote The traditional methods of providing printed timetables are being moved away from - not only by Go North East, but by Arriva and Stagecoach too. I have found that printed timetables are no longer produced on-bus for either operator any more (excluding Arriva's branded services). Whilst Arriva's timetable holder often remains empty, Stagecoach have replaced it with small 'area guides' with a lot of detail about where services go and what their frequencies are.

Until earlier this year; Go North East was the only operator to continue supplying printed timetables on-bus, and I believe the company wished to move away from this method of providing travel information to customers. Following passenger research undertaken on-bus which suggested that the majority of customers would use another method of finding out the timetable of the bus (either by going on the company's website, Googling it, using the app, or using the Journey Planner tool on Google Maps), I believe a number of timetables weren't produced in line with minor changes on services in July. Customer complaints were in single figures, I understand, suggesting that not many people really do care about having a printed timetable nowadays.

The company recently received some feedback on Social Media about this from a member of this forum recently - which you can see this confirmed by Go North East.

It's not intended as a cost-saving exercise, as the money saved will be used in alternative marketing to try and attract new customers as well as benefit existing customers (with offers such as free day tickets, etc). Door-drops relevant to the service they'd be travelling on, more promotional events, etc.

I personally don't think we're ready to be completely digital yet, but the passenger research and lack of complaints about printed timetables suggests otherwise.

The services you mention were the only ones which Go North East provided with the most recent changes in September - X5 and X21 as the improved Sunday journeys were something they were promoting, and X9/X10 due to the new vehicles, completely new timetable, serving Dalton Park on X10, etc.

Stagecoach have never been particularly good at having timetables available on board – they tend to put them on vehicles when making network changes but rarely at other times.  While not available on buses, the do tend to update their printed leaflets for all but the most minor of changes and these tend to be readily available in various locations.   They have always produced the Bus Guides, if they are what you mean?  Even these though tend to be sparse on board and can be tricky to get hold of – especially Sunderland.  Unless they have produced a new format area guide more recently?

Back to GNE, I realised why the three expresses would have been done but there are others which have seen notable cuts/changes not reflected in the printed timetables still readily available.  In addition these I’m really surprised the 10 hasn’t been reprinted – there’s been two round of changes, and the rebranding, but the printed timetables are still available from prior to the July changes in the old TEN brand.  A handful of services have also had two rounds of changes with no reprint. 

I don’t agree with moving away from paper timetables (would be interesting to know which demographic the market research focussed on), but if they aren’t going to be reprinted, they should really remove out of date editions.  For example, someone picking up an X22 timetable could reasonably expect a direct run through to Durham on Sundays, but that’s not actually now available.  Where there’s been minor retiming of journeys the approach described makes sense however for more substantial changes to route/withdrawal of sections I think there is an issue with ‘advertising’ one offer in printed copies but actually providing something quite different.

A shame that axing printed timetables has spread to the North East. It's gradually been spreading around the country but generally it seems to be PTEs and councils so far due to slashed budgets, rather than operators who have kept them going in areas where it's their responsibility.

It was bad enough when Nexus axed maps and then closed all the smaller travel shops and all the shops on Saturdays meaning you couldn't get timetables even if they were still available.

I don't know why they don't consider doing small "amendment" leaflets so when it's a very minor change that could be slotted inside, rather than reprinting a glossy leaflet or leaving an old one on show.

Availability has been poor in some areas for years, the rack at Durham bus station is permanently about 90% empty.

(30 Sep 2017, 2:56 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote I don’t agree with moving away from paper timetables (would be interesting to know which demographic the market research focussed on), but if they aren’t going to be reprinted, they should really remove out of date editions.

The most likely time for market research to be undertaken is during the day. If this is the case, you would expect a higher number of concessionary pass users (the main people who wouldn't have access to a smartphone) rather than commuters, and hence the result to be biased against keeping timetables... Perhaps my expectations of concessionary pass users is wrong and they are ready for digital... For the minority of passengers who don't have access to a smartphone, I'd imagine Go North East would be more than happy to print a copy of the timetable locally and post it to that person's home address. The chances are they would only require one or two timetables rather than for the entire network.

Timetables which are now out of date shouldn't be stocked on-bus any more.

(30 Sep 2017, 2:56 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Stagecoach have never been particularly good at having timetables available on board – they tend to put them on vehicles when making network changes but rarely at other times.  While not available on buses, the do tend to update their printed leaflets for all but the most minor of changes and these tend to be readily available in various locations.   They have always produced the Bus Guides, if they are what you mean?  Even these though tend to be sparse on board and can be tricky to get hold of – especially Sunderland.  Unless they have produced a new format area guide more recently?

Back to GNE, I realised why the three expresses would have been done but there are others which have seen notable cuts/changes not reflected in the printed timetables still readily available.  In addition these I’m really surprised the 10 hasn’t been reprinted – there’s been two round of changes, and the rebranding, but the printed timetables are still available from prior to the July changes in the old TEN brand.  A handful of services have also had two rounds of changes with no reprint. 

[b{I don’t agree with moving away from paper timetables (would be interesting to know which demographic the market research focussed on), but if they aren’t going to be reprinted, they should really remove out of date editions.  For example, someone picking up an X22 timetable could reasonably expect a direct run through to Durham on Sundays, but that’s not actually now available.  Where there’s been minor retiming of journeys the approach described makes sense however for more substantial changes to route/withdrawal of sections I think there is an issue with ‘advertising’ one offer in printed copies but actually providing something quite different.[/b]

I am one who prefers the real-life, kinaesthetic thing, whether it be books over a kindle or a paper timetable over a digital one.
Whether I have that real physical thing is another matter, as I can't remember the past time I bought a newspaper.

However, to get back to the point you made about the survey (I won't touch on proportions or any of that survey jazz that got eezypeazy in all of a tizz on that hilarious night a few years back), I wonder if the model bus companies employ, render timetables obsolete.
On the main corridors, the buses are advertised as operating an 'x' minute frequency. Do punters really need to consult a timetable, if the bus is going to turn up in 10/12 minutes time?

Obviously this frequency operates at those frequencies during the day, when the older generation are possibly the ones travelling the most and are subject to questionnaires and surveys. 

In the latter parts of the evening, when frequencies drop and say younger types are commuting or coming home from a night out, then the digital versions of the timetables may be accessed.

All hypothetical, just trying to apply some reasoning and logic to the decision.

I have to say, can't remember the last time i used a paper timetable, i always use the Go North East/Stagecoach app, or the live NEXUS map.

When I'm planning to go somewhere I will check the timetables as the google maps/nexus times are never correct (always out by a minute with each other), and I don't like the GNE app. It really helps me to piece together a trip, and the pdf formats are hopeless. Can't follow them.

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If GNE are moving away from printed timetables it must make sure the on line versions are designed for that and not just copies of the printed ones which don't suit this format. However it is ridiculous to assume that the majority of people have smartphones, or want to use them for that purpose. Printed timetables should be freely available on buses - not just on the buses for that route but those used on services in that area. If they didn't change their timetables so often they wouldn't have to print so many new versions. Just done a survey of the 16 people in my pub at the moment, all under 55 and two under 21, and 11 have smartphones but only 7 regularly use phones on internet and only 6 of the 16 would want to get timetables on phones (if they could) or via internet.

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(01 Oct 2017, 11:54 am)Greg_in_Weardale wrote If GNE are moving away from printed timetables it must make sure the on line versions are designed for that and not just copies of the printed ones which don't suit this format. However it is ridiculous to assume that the majority of people have smartphones, or want to use them for that purpose. Printed timetables should be freely available on buses - not just on the buses for that route but those used on services in that area. If they didn't change their timetables so often they wouldn't have to print so many new versions. Just done a survey of the 16 people in my pub at the moment, all under 55 and two under 21, and 11 have smartphones but only 7 regularly use phones on internet and only 6 of the 16 would want to get timetables on phones (if they could) or via internet.

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Must be a good day out in the pub, if you had to do a survey. 

I do agree, they change their services ALOT, sometimes months after, Indigo Washington is an example to use, personally, I find it easier to use the apps, online timetables, as it means i can access them straight away, it also means, i don't have to have loads of paper timetables with me!, most people will know what time their bus is due anyway.


Stagecoach Sunderland have changes coming up in November to the 4,16, 23, X1 and X24, the 3rd set of changes in a year and a half? although, atm the changes all look positive... with the introducation of a Sunday service on the X24 and the rest just timetables changes.

(01 Oct 2017, 9:14 am)Andreos1 wrote I am one who prefers the real-life, kinaesthetic thing, whether it be books over a kindle or a paper timetable over a digital one.
Whether I have that real physical thing is another matter, as I can't remember the past time I bought a newspaper.

However, to get back to the point you made about the survey (I won't touch on proportions or any of that survey jazz that got eezypeazy in all of a tizz on that hilarious night a few years back), I wonder if the model bus companies employ, render timetables obsolete.
On the main corridors, the buses are advertised as operating an 'x' minute frequency. Do punters really need to consult a timetable, if the bus is going to turn up in 10/12 minutes time?

Obviously this frequency operates at those frequencies during the day, when the older generation are possibly the ones travelling the most and are subject to questionnaires and surveys. 

In the latter parts of the evening, when frequencies drop and say younger types are commuting or coming home from a night out, then the digital versions of the timetables may be accessed.

All hypothetical, just trying to apply some reasoning and logic to the decision.

What about the sizeable proportion of people who don't happen to live on a main corridor, or have to try to make connections due to the rationalisation of services?  Look at something like the 10 - there's only actually a 10 minute frequency along a small proportion of the route with various far less frequent spurs beyond that.  You could of course still say, there's a bus from Corbridge every half hour so just go to the stop and wait...

I think its more likely a move away from paper to digital, rather than a move away from checking a timetable - years ago many services operated more frequently than they do now.  There's always been a mix of 7-12 minute and 30 min plus frequencies.

---

(01 Oct 2017, 8:54 am)Dan wrote Timetables which are now out of date shouldn't be stocked on-bus any more.

Someone needs to tell Nexus then (if they haven't already) as they are all still readily available in interchanges, as if they were the current versions.

Would be interested to know if your earlier reference to Stagecoach area guides were the fold-out Bus Guides, or something else?

(01 Oct 2017, 12:12 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Would be interested to know if your earlier reference to Stagecoach area guides were the fold-out Bus Guides, or something else?

Yeah, just the small fold-out bus guides. I think they've grown in size over the past few years - you needed a magnifying glass to see all of the text before!

I don't travel on Stagecoach's buses as frequently as I used to now that I've got the car, but they always used to have them on bus.

Although I do collect timetable leaflets, I do tend to use online timetables when planning on catching a bus (when I'm planning at home or I am out somewhere).

I simply CANNOT stand having to look at most Go North East timetables on my phone (or leaflets), if you have the timetable for a frequent service on your phone, let's say you want a weekday evening Prince Bishops 20 at around 9pm, you have to find the nearest stop you want on the timetable and find the time you require, if it's not towards the top or bottom of the timetable, you have to attempt to follow along in a line from the destination to the appropriate time, if like you me you have slightly unsteady hands and a poor sense of concentration, I will often get to roughly where the time is but then I will think, is this the right stop? Then have to start again and this will often have to be repeated multiple times, often until I either get the info I need from Go North East's timetable or I've given up and resorted to other means of finding the times out (Traveline, Google, other timetables etc).

I would like more area maps of bus routes as they often help me out greatly.

(01 Oct 2017, 12:17 pm)Dan wrote Yeah, just the small fold-out bus guides. I think they've grown in size over the past few years - you needed a magnifying glass to see all of the text before!

I don't travel on Stagecoach's buses as frequently as I used to now that I've got the car, but they always used to have them on bus.

Yeah they have been all kinds of sizes and formats.  Started out similar to the current ones but have been absolutely tiny and also have been large, newspaper style booklets whenever Year of the Bus was.  The current format I think is the most useful, to then use alongside the timetable for more detail.

While we are discussing timetables - is there any progress in getting the old leaflets back up that used to be in the bygone era?

(01 Oct 2017, 12:47 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote While we are discussing timetables - is there any progress in getting the old leaflets back up that used to be in the bygone era?

As a matter of fact, there is!

Liam is currently tinkering and doing all of the work behind the scenes to complete the system. To make the Bygone Era more appealing to our younger audience, we're amalgamating the news system and photos system with the Bygone Era.

Instead of having just a complete list of files, users will be able to filter downloads by year and see a snapshot from that year. Users will also be able to search for 'tags' - in relation to Go North East, let's say 'Durham Road'. Files, news and photos can all be 'tagged', so all of this will be joined together, and on paper, create a timeline for 'Durham Road', so you'd be able to see all the timetables for the 21 (and its predecessors) over the years, and see news stories regarding any buses allocated to the 21 (and its predecessors) over the years. It's a long term project with no definitive timescale on when it will be completed, but we're hoping to allow users to do more of the work too, submitting their own files, doing their own tags, etc. This would then go through to the site's moderation team to approve (like the news).

Part of Liam's tinkering replaced all of the news article photographs in our system. I'm currently going through all of the articles again to re-add the photographs.

Sounds like a big job! Deserve a medal u do!

(01 Oct 2017, 12:12 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote What about the sizeable proportion of people who don't happen to live on a main corridor, or have to try to make connections due to the rationalisation of services?  Look at something like the 10 - there's only actually a 10 minute frequency along a small proportion of the route with various far less frequent spurs beyond that.  You could of course still say, there's a bus from Corbridge every half hour so just go to the stop and wait...

I think its more likely a move away from paper to digital, rather than a move away from checking a timetable - years ago many services operated more frequently than they do now.  There's always been a mix of 7-12 minute and 30 min plus frequencies.

---

Someone needs to tell Nexus then (if they haven't already) as they are all still readily available in interchanges, as if they were the current versions.

Would be interested to know if your earlier reference to Stagecoach area guides were the fold-out Bus Guides, or something else?

I agree with you.
But as a proportion of the NE population, the Tyne Valley area is small.
An even smaller representation of that population will use buses.

It goes without saying, that if my suggestion is accurate - then even taking those passengers in to account, those on the main corridors would be in the majority and any research would be skewed in one direction. 

It shows the flaws that exist in proportional, representative sampling.
There was a huge discussion in the Passenger Focus thread about it.

(01 Oct 2017, 4:12 pm)Andreos1 wrote I agree with you.
But as a proportion of the NE population, the Tyne Valley area is small.
An even smaller representation of that population will use buses.

It goes without saying, that if my suggestion is accurate - then even taking those passengers in to account, those on the main corridors would be in the majority and any research would be skewed in one direction. 

It shows the flaws that exist in proportional, representative sampling.
There was a huge discussion in the Passenger Focus thread about it.

The 10 example was just that, an example.  There are a whole range of routes that appear to have a very regular offering but due to variations (sometimes along substantial proportions) I would argue most people do not have a turn up and go frequency door to door.  Look at the 2, 12, 20, 309/310 etc for plenty more examples in more urban areas where the point stands.

The sampling may be one issue but it is probably more relevant to think about what was asked, how it was asked, how responses were interpreted etc. 

I would hazard a guess that, if asked “Would you rather timetables were available online and in print form, as now, or just online”, few would choose the ‘just online’.  However, if people were asked, for example, “Would you access a timetable online” many would answer yes, allowing various spurious conclusions to be drawn.  Of course we don’t know what was asked, but I suspect it wasn’t framed in a way that that the respondent would have known they were supporting withdrawal of printed media.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a poll to see what the percentage of members vote of having online timetables or continue with paper timetables [emoji23]


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(01 Oct 2017, 5:17 pm)cbma06 wrote I'm surprised there hasn't been a poll to see what the percentage of members vote of having online timetables or continue with paper timetables [emoji23]

 

With respect, 'members' do not represent the typical passenger - or at least not representative of all passengers.

(01 Oct 2017, 6:38 pm)G-CPTN wrote With respect, 'members' do not represent the typical passenger - or at least not representative of all passengers.

Members all know that [emoji23]


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PB0003954/855 Registered (Short notice)
GO NORTH EAST LIMITED
Route: Sunderland Keel Square to Seaburn Tram Shelter
Service number: 101
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 05 Oct 2017

Probables wrong now but:

PB0003954/854 Registered (Short notice)
GO NORTH EAST LIMITED
Route: Bishop Auckland Bus Station to Toft Hill
Service number: 86
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Oct 2017

PB0003954/853 Registered (Short notice)
GO NORTH EAST LIMITED
Route: Durham Rail Station to Duham Cathedral
Service number: 40 (40B, 40A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Oct 2017

PB0003954/737 Registered (Short notice)
GO NORTH EAST LIMITED
Route: Langley Park, Stringer Terrace to Durham, Millburngate
Service number: 13 (14)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Oct 2017

PB0003954/654 Registered (Short notice)
GO NORTH EAST LIMITED
Route: South Stanley to Metrocentre
Service number: M6 (M7, M8, 836)
Service type: Hail & Ride, Limited Stop, Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Oct 2017

PB0003954/650 Registered (Short notice)
GO NORTH EAST LIMITED
Route: Stanley Bus Station to Lanchester Village Green
Service number: 30
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Oct 2017

Another 40?

(03 Oct 2017, 4:53 am)V514DFT wrote Another 40?

It's the cathedral bus from stanley travel