(29 Feb 2020, 3:12 pm)Malarkey wrote 51 Alexander Enviro 200MMC's 10.8m or BYD Enviro 200's to replace all of the MAN 14.240 LF Enviro 200's across various depots.

30 Alexander Enviro 200MMC's 11.5m to replace all remaining MAN Alexander ALX300's/Scania K270UB Omnilinks on the X24/MAN Enviro 300's on the 100

40 Scania N280UD Alexander Dennis Enviro 400 CNG or BYD Enviro 400 City's for E1/E2/E6 & X34 & Peak Journey's on Services 3/12/13/16 & 20 to give extra capacity releasing (20) Scania K270UB Enviro 300's on to Sunderland based services 4/23 which would then release the 63 reg Enviro 200's to be reallocated to Slatyford for the 10/11/71/72 with Euro 6 upgrade.

How much do you want fares to go up by?

'Can i have a day ticket please', 'yes,that'll be 1 gold block'

I think the best we can see happening in North East this year ( depending on how long covid 19 lasts ) is a few second hand buses coming from other depos to replace some of the 08 39 series  enviros Hartlepool have which are getting more unreliable as time goes on.  Newcastle might get a couple of more deckers but see any more brand new buses coming to the north east anytime soon.

Would be nice to get some Optare Solos for Hartlepool on their town services as they don't seem to justify large buses on their frequency. As for service 1 they can always retain some of the 360 batch...

For most of the day the 3 and 3A could probably get away with solos, probably with the exception of the runs that extend to Clavering as its the only route that goes past or close to every secondary school in the town. Putting them on the 6 would cause capacity issues on the southern section of the route as between the town and Owton Manor, passengers jump on either the 6 or 36 whichever turns up first. Personally I'd say the midibus fleet works well in town

(20 Apr 2020, 11:10 pm)S830OFT wrote Would be nice to get some Optare Solos for Hartlepool on their town services as they don't seem to justify large buses on their frequency. As for service 1 they can always retain some of the 360 batch...

I completely disagree I often see the 7 near full during the day and that just from Headland to the town.  If anything there are times when full size buses are needed again. The 360 batch are to small for the 1 it often gets full before leaving Middlesbrough and from Hartlepool Cente. The 3 on a morning same story it gets full by the time it gets to the Catholic club so solos definitely do not help.  The only times solo will be justified are on the evening services and if they decide to add some shorter routes again.  Solo will just mean buses getting full to quickly for the majority of daytime services and leaving people stuck at the stop.   Some enviro 300 and double decks for the busiest times though then I would definitely agree

(21 Apr 2020, 5:51 am)beefcake wrote For most of the day the 3 and 3A could probably get away with solos, probably with the exception of the runs that extend to Clavering as its the only route that goes past or close to every secondary school in the town. Putting them on the 6 would cause capacity issues on the southern section of the route as between the town and Owton Manor, passengers jump on either the 6 or 36 whichever turns up first. Personally I'd say the midibus fleet works well in town

The Solos used by operators in the North East (GNE's latest ones especially) are only a few seats shy off the E200s ran by Hartlepool. 29 vs 34 I think.

with COVID ongoing and stagecoach barely making any money this past 12 months compared to other years, i cant imagine seeing too many new buses especially after the batch of 23 (correct me if im wrong) MMCs. with the clean air zone due to be implemented later this year i imagine it would make financial sense for SCNE to try and acquire cleaner vehicles. anyone think we are likely to see cascades from other regions?

(04 Feb 2021, 5:58 pm)toward6931 wrote with COVID ongoing and stagecoach barely making any money this past 12 months compared to other years, i cant imagine seeing too many new buses especially after the batch of 23 (correct me if im wrong) MMCs. with the clean air zone due to be implemented later this year i imagine it would make financial sense for SCNE to try and acquire cleaner vehicles. anyone think we are likely to see cascades from other regions?

Its not happening this year due to Covid.

(04 Feb 2021, 6:07 pm)Michael wrote Its not happening this year due to Covid.

Delay to clean air zone plans confirmed | Newcastle City Council   I've read that it is happening this year just later than planned

(04 Feb 2021, 7:06 pm)toward6931 wrote Delay to clean air zone plans confirmed | Newcastle City Council   I've read that it is happening this year  just later than planned

If no new vehicles are ordered and delivered before the CAZ comes into effect, vehicles will probably be swapped around instead. Apparently, Sunderland ADL E300s 27726-40 are now Euro 6 so these could be swapped with MAN ALX300s.

Moving vehicles shouldn’t be an option. Does that mean Gateshead, NT, ST and S’land have to breathe bad air?

(04 Feb 2021, 9:21 pm)Economic505 wrote Moving vehicles shouldn’t be an option.  Does that mean Gateshead, NT, ST and S’land have to breathe bad air?

That is the unfortunate side effect of these clean air zones. A company that doesn't have a lot of money to spend on new vehicles, they're just going to get Euro 6 buses from elsewhere in the region. Stagecoach have already taken a few newer buses from other areas for Newcastle already, whilst South Shields and Sunderland are left with those awful smoking MAN E200s.

(04 Feb 2021, 8:49 pm)AIG20 wrote If no new vehicles are ordered and delivered before the CAZ comes into effect, vehicles will probably be swapped around instead. Apparently, Sunderland ADL E300s 27726-40 are now Euro 6 so these could be swapped with MAN ALX300s.

I thought some of they were upgraded to Euro 6 with the rest following later.

(04 Feb 2021, 8:49 pm)AIG20 wrote If no new vehicles are ordered and delivered before the CAZ comes into effect, vehicles will probably be swapped around instead. Apparently, Sunderland ADL E300s 27726-40 are now Euro 6 so these could be swapped with MAN ALX300s.

South Tyneside Council funded those Euro 6 upgrades, I don’t think we’ll see those Enviro300s moved away from the E1/2/6 services for the next couple of years at least.


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(04 Feb 2021, 8:49 pm)AIG20 wrote If no new vehicles are ordered and delivered before the CAZ comes into effect, vehicles will probably be swapped around instead. Apparently, Sunderland ADL E300s 27726-40 are now Euro 6 so these could be swapped with MAN ALX300s.

surely if most of sunderlands fleet is the gas buses a handful of euro 6 E300s wont be missed if they swapped with ALX 300s

(04 Feb 2021, 9:52 pm)toward6931 wrote surely if most of sunderlands fleet is the gas buses a handful of euro 6 E300s wont be missed if they swapped with ALX 300s

or not forgetting stockton depot, it has plenty of withdrawn kinetics which could be canabalised if ALX 300s are moved there allowing either the E300S or MMCs to be moved to newcastle

(29 Feb 2020, 3:12 pm)Malarkey wrote Enviro 200s wouldn’t be suitable for 10/11 it’s very busy service. Would probably struggle on 71. As far as I’m aware 72 is usually E200 most of time. 


51 Alexander Enviro 200MMC's 10.8m or BYD Enviro 200's to replace all of the MAN 14.240 LF Enviro 200's across various depots.

30 Alexander Enviro 200MMC's 11.5m to replace all remaining MAN Alexander ALX300's/Scania K270UB Omnilinks on the X24/MAN Enviro 300's on the 100

40 Scania N280UD Alexander Dennis Enviro 400 CNG or BYD Enviro 400 City's for E1/E2/E6 & X34 & Peak Journey's on Services 3/12/13/16 & 20 to give extra capacity releasing (20) Scania K270UB Enviro 300's on to Sunderland based services 4/23 which would then release the 63 reg Enviro 200's to be reallocated to Slatyford for the 10/11/71/72 with Euro 6 upgrade.

at risk of playing fantasy fleets i cant imagine many if not any at all new vehicles. hopefully with Manchester gaining new electric 400 city's SNE could gain around 24 either 2012/2013 hybrid examples from there bringing the north east total to 50 ish it would allow the following to happen.

1. the first 4 at walkergate could allow for the 4 hired in decker's to either go off lease or split them in two pairs to Sunderland and slatyford for their school services.

2. the second batch of ten would be enough to release the ten (correct me if I'm wrong) 2007 registered E400s.

3. and then the final ten could allow a cascade of 5 vehicles each from walkergate to slatyford and Sunderland to alleviate a shortage of decker's at these depots.

at slatyford it could release 3 or 4 ALX300s to Stockton in turn allowing euro 6 E300s to move to Newcastle therefore releasing more ALX300s to Stockton.  so hypothetically out of 5 2008 registered E400s. one could be used as a spare vehicle and up to 4 non euro 6 single decks to elsewhere

the 5 at Sunderland could be used to provide more spares for use on X34 and the E services which sound like they could do with a couple of decker's at times. so out of 5 2008 registered 400s they could release 5 single decks to elsewhere.

if Stockton is being used as a storage yard for the likes of kinetics and withdrawn ALX300s it would make sense that all ALX300s move here to release euro 6 buses to Newcastle and all the withdrawn buses could be used for the cannibalizations of parts to keep active buses going until the can be replaced

(05 Feb 2021, 7:38 pm)toward6931 wrote at risk of playing fantasy fleets i cant imagine many if not any at all new vehicles. hopefully with Manchester gaining new electric 400 city's SNE could gain around 24 either 2012/2013 hybrid examples from there bringing the north east total to 50 ish it would allow the following to happen.

Not sure there'd be a huge benefit to doing that - those Hybrid E400s wouldn't meet the criteria set out by the proposed Clean Air Zone, as things stand.

I understand both Go North East and Stagecoach are lobbying so that they would be, but that has not been confirmed yet.

(05 Feb 2021, 7:49 pm)Dan wrote Not sure there'd be a huge benefit to doing that - those Hybrid E400s wouldn't meet the criteria set out by the proposed Clean Air Zone, as things stand.

I understand both Go North East and Stagecoach are lobbying so that they would be, but that has not been confirmed yet.

oh right, I thought originally the native 2011 Newcastle hybrids only needed a slight exhaust modification to be eligible so presumed it wouldn't be too difficult to do the same for the Manchester ones

(05 Feb 2021, 7:38 pm)toward6931 wrote at risk of playing fantasy fleets i cant imagine many if not any at all new vehicles. hopefully with Manchester gaining new electric 400 city's SNE could gain around 24 either 2012/2013 hybrid examples from there bringing the north east total to 50 ish it would allow the following to happen.

1. the first 4 at walkergate could allow for the 4 hired in decker's to either go off lease or split them in two pairs to Sunderland and slatyford for their school services.

2. the second batch of ten would be enough to release the ten (correct me if I'm wrong) 2007 registered E400s.

3. and then the final ten could allow a cascade of 5 vehicles each from walkergate to slatyford and Sunderland to alleviate a shortage of decker's at these depots.

at slatyford it could release 3 or 4 ALX300s to Stockton in turn allowing euro 6 E300s to move to Newcastle therefore releasing more ALX300s to Stockton.  so hypothetically out of 5 2008 registered E400s. one could be used as a spare vehicle and up to 4 non euro 6 single decks to elsewhere

the 5 at Sunderland could be used to provide more spares for use on X34 and the E services which sound like they could do with a couple of decker's at times. so out of 5 2008 registered 400s they could release 5 single decks to elsewhere.

if Stockton is being used as a storage yard for the likes of kinetics and withdrawn ALX300s it would make sense that all ALX300s move here to release euro 6 buses to Newcastle and all the withdrawn buses could be used for the cannibalizations of parts to keep active buses going until the can be replaced

Manchester’s Hybrids are moving onto the Magic Bus 142/143/147 services. If anything the 08/58 plates will be moving from Manchester if they are to gain additional plates.

(05 Feb 2021, 9:39 pm)NewcastleOne wrote Manchester’s Hybrids are moving onto the Magic Bus 142/143/147 services. If anything the 08/58 plates will be moving from Manchester if they are to gain additional plates.

you would have thought with magic bus being the more budget low cost services they would have let the 08 plates live on a little longer. then again some divisions have 2008 E300s as driver trainers when SNE still have 03/04 buses in active service

(05 Feb 2021, 10:01 pm)toward6931 wrote you would have thought with magic bus being the more budget low cost services they would have let the 08 plates live on a little longer. then again some divisions have 2008 E300s as driver trainers when SNE still have 03/04 buses in active service

In terms of deckers it's operations like East Mids and West that are crying out for some more Manchester Enviro400s on top of the loads they've already received. In terms of deckers North East is doing well, but singles you are correct.

(05 Feb 2021, 11:50 pm)cnjb800 wrote In terms of deckers it's operations like East Mids and West that are crying out for some more Manchester Enviro400s on top of the loads they've already received. In terms of deckers North East is doing well, but singles you are correct.

yeah that's why I thought if SNE managed to acquire 14-24 newer decker's they could cascade some 2007/2008 buses to other areas, for arguments sake if SNE acquired 30 hybrids from Manchester that's still 75 new buses that can oust older buses plus whatever SNE decide to cascade.

if it wasn't for the CAZ that's incoming I would happily wait for a normal cycle of cascades and new buses coming in. from my estimation there's a good 30 odd double deck that need to be cascaded from Newcastle to be CAZ compliant, plus how many extra single decks and midi buses.

if other operations aren't having to operate under such stringent standards surely it would make sense to get SNE in a good position to avoid wasting money on paying tolls when other areas have vehicles that would be suitable. don't get me wrong I would love to see a brand new batch of 40 plus double decks and 40 plus single decks but I'm not naive enough to wish for that.

according to the article stagecoach has 750 buses in greater manchester, 144 of which are hybrids. 

24  of them hybrids cascaded to north east is not a huge drop in the ocean when there is 105 electric buses to supplement them


[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.54)]105 electric double decker buses for Manchester (sustainable-bus.com)

[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.54)]Stagecoach bosses offer to roll out 105 electric buses across Greater Manchester - Manchester Evening News[/color]

Before getting too carried away, remember that Manchester has it's own clean air zone coming in, which is why the hybrids have had euro6 upgrades and gone onto Magic bus.

Manchester still have a small number of 57 plate E400s, 114 08 plate E400s, 74 58 plate E400s, 49 09 plate E400s, 6 59 plate Cummins E400s and the 20 59 plate MAN engined E400s not meeting the Euro6 requirements and are older than their hybrids on their latest fleet card, so I wouldn't pin any hopes on taking hybrids away from them any time soon.

(06 Feb 2021, 11:37 am)cainebj wrote Before getting too carried away, remember that Manchester has it's own clean air zone coming in, which is why the hybrids have had euro6 upgrades and gone onto Magic bus.

Manchester still have a small number of 57 plate E400s, 114 08 plate E400s, 74 58 plate E400s, 49 09 plate E400s, 6 59 plate Cummins E400s and the 20 59 plate MAN engined E400s not meeting the Euro6 requirements and are older than their hybrids on their latest fleet card, so I wouldn't pin any hopes on taking hybrids away from them any time soon.

i didn't realize Manchester had it own CAZ aswell. i have seen in portsmouth  a few 2008 ex Manchester E400s so hopefully they have managed to cascade most 57 and 08 plates by now

(06 Feb 2021, 12:42 am)toward6931 wrote yeah that's why I thought if SNE managed to acquire 14-24 newer decker's they could cascade some 2007/2008 buses to other areas, for arguments sake if SNE acquired 30 hybrids from Manchester that's still 75 new buses that can oust older buses plus whatever SNE decide to cascade.

if it wasn't for the CAZ that's incoming I would happily wait for a normal cycle of cascades and new buses coming in. from my estimation there's a good 30 odd double deck that need to be cascaded from Newcastle to be CAZ compliant, plus how many extra single decks and midi buses.

if other operations aren't having to operate under such stringent standards surely it would make sense to get SNE in a good position to avoid wasting money on paying tolls when other areas have vehicles that would be suitable. don't get me wrong I would love to see a brand new batch of 40 plus double decks and 40 plus single decks but I'm not naive enough to wish for that.

according to the article stagecoach has 750 buses in greater manchester, 144 of which are hybrids. 

24  of them hybrids cascaded to north east is not a huge drop in the ocean when there is 105 electric buses to supplement them


[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.54)]105 electric double decker buses for Manchester (sustainable-bus.com)

[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.54)]Stagecoach bosses offer to roll out 105 electric buses across Greater Manchester - Manchester Evening News[/color]

Whenever Covid ends I could see Newcastle getting some new buses to see of some early E400s, although there is no reason why they can't be upgraded to Euro 6.
 I think the whole keeping hybrid buses and buying electric buses for Manchester is to stick it to the franchising proposals. Although even if the proposals weren't about, then there would only be a small chance of Newcastle getting some Manchester hybrids

I haven't done the maths but do they need many more Euro 6 buses if they upgraded all the Enviro's. I know they have loads of ALX 300's in service but they could easily be dumped on the 6, 7, 8 and 18 for the time being if required which don't need to be Euro 6.

(07 Feb 2021, 12:30 pm)Storx wrote I haven't done the maths but do they need many more Euro 6 buses if they upgraded all the Enviro's. I know they have loads of ALX 300's in service but they could easily be dumped on the 6, 7, 8 and 18 for the time being if required which don't need to be Euro 6.

There is too many ALX 300's for 6,7,8 & 18 combined. They would definetely need either cascades or temporary transfers to/from other depots at the least. I also beleive tis would help with crowding on 6,7,8 & 18 mainly at peak times.