(12 Jun 2015, 10:56 pm)Malarkey wrote Would be even less logic if the 27 was to get Deckers also, personally I dont think many people would get on the 4 if was to continue on from Heworth towards Newcastle, as everyone gets on the Metro from Heworth anyway.

Everyone gets on the Metro at Heworth because they have to.  If the number 4 continued on to Gateshead and Newcastle then I'm sure passengers would remain on the bus rather than getting off to change onto the Metro.  They'd be able to use bus only tickets as well rather than Transfares.

(15 Jun 2015, 7:02 pm)big mac wrote Everyone gets on the Metro at Heworth because they have to.  If the number 4 continued on to Gateshead and Newcastle then I'm sure passengers would remain on the bus rather than getting off to change onto the Metro.  They'd be able to use bus only tickets as well rather than Transfares.

Exactly, You'd get more people traveling on the 4 because people who travel by bus tend to avoid changing, they just want one through bus to Newcastle.
And the 4 terminates at a pretty stupid place. Anyways who wants to travel from Houghton to Heworth?
Extending it to Eldon Square would be really easy with the 3 extra Streetlite Max Micro Hybrid suggested in my order prediction.

(15 Jun 2015, 7:02 pm)big mac wrote Everyone gets on the Metro at Heworth because they have to.  If the number 4 continued on to Gateshead and Newcastle then I'm sure passengers would remain on the bus rather than getting off to change onto the Metro.  They'd be able to use bus only tickets as well rather than Transfares.

(15 Jun 2015, 7:12 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote Exactly, You'd get more people traveling on the 4 because people who travel by bus tend to avoid changing, they just want one through bus to Newcastle.
And the 4 terminates at a pretty stupid place. Anyways who wants to travel from Houghton to Heworth?
Extending it to Eldon Square would be really easy with the 3 extra Streetlite Max Micro Hybrid suggested in my order prediction.

But why would they use it if the journey times would potentially be longer? I'm using the 27 route between Heworth and Newcastle to calculate timings, as there's nothing else to go from:

Bus + Metro
4 - Galleries to Washington = 17 minutes
Metro - Heworth to Newcastle = 9 minutes
= 26 minutes (minus connection time)

4 Direct
4 - Galleries to Washington = 17 minutes
27 - Heworth to Newcastle = 19 minutes
= 36 minutes (minus connection time)

X1 Direct
X1 - Galleries to Newcastle = 32 minutes

I can't see why people wouldn't just jump on the X1 at the Galleries if they were headed for Gateshead or Newcastle? They'd save themselves a bit of time in the process, and it's not too far from the Metro when you take into account connection times.

(15 Jun 2015, 7:12 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote Exactly, You'd get more people traveling on the 4 because people who travel by bus tend to avoid changing, they just want one through bus to Newcastle.
And the 4 terminates at a pretty stupid place. Anyways who wants to travel from Houghton to Heworth?
Extending it to Eldon Square would be really easy with the 3 extra Streetlite Max Micro Hybrid suggested in my order prediction.

It's all about the local links that the route serves. I know that the 4 sometimes turns away passengers at peak times, it serves a few schools along the route, and all of the local hop-on, hop-off points along that stretch can get very busy at times. If it weren't for the low bridge, I imagine a few peak runs could do with double decker operation.

(15 Jun 2015, 7:12 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote Exactly, You'd get more people traveling on the 4 because people who travel by bus tend to avoid changing, they just want one through bus to Newcastle.
And the 4 terminates at a pretty stupid place. Anyways who wants to travel from Houghton to Heworth?
Extending it to Eldon Square would be really easy with the 3 extra Streetlite Max Micro Hybrid suggested in my order prediction.

I  don't think theres any need to extend the 4 to Newcastle. We don't need another service running between Newcastle and Houghton as there are more than enough buses serving these areas. I wouldn't say Heworth is a stupid place to terminate as people use it to get a Metro to the likes of South Shields as well.

(15 Jun 2015, 8:25 pm)aureolin wrote But why would they use it if the journey times would potentially be longer? I'm using the 27 route between Heworth and Newcastle to calculate timings, as there's nothing else to go from:

Bus + Metro
4 - Galleries to Washington = 17 minutes
Metro - Heworth to Newcastle = 9 minutes
= 26 minutes (minus connection time)

4 Direct
4 - Galleries to Washington = 17 minutes
27 - Heworth to Newcastle = 19 minutes
= 36 minutes (minus connection time)

X1 Direct
X1 - Galleries to Newcastle = 32 minutes

I can't see why people wouldn't just jump on the X1 at the Galleries if they were headed for Gateshead or Newcastle? They'd save themselves a bit of time in the process, and it's not too far from the Metro when you take into account connection times.

(15 Jun 2015, 9:40 pm)Washingtonian wrote I  don't think theres any need to extend the 4 to Newcastle. We don't need another service running between Newcastle and Houghton as there are more than enough buses serving these areas. I wouldn't say Heworth is a stupid place to terminate as people use it to get a Metro to the likes of South Shields as well.

More often than not, it is easier (and as timings show), just as quick using the Metro and 4 between Newcastle and the Galleries, than the X1.
If in a part of the city centre that is best served by the metro, than a hike upto Eldon Square or the Castle Keep - there is only going to be one winner.

It is why I pay the couple of pence premium for a Day Rover.

(15 Jun 2015, 8:25 pm)aureolin wrote

aureolin wroteBut why would they use it if the journey times would potentially be longer? I'm using the 27 route between Heworth and Newcastle to calculate timings, as there's nothing else to go from:

Bus + Metro
4 - Galleries to Washington = 17 minutes
Metro - Heworth to Newcastle = 9 minutes
= 26 minutes (minus connection time)

4 Direct
4 - Galleries to Washington = 17 minutes
27 - Heworth to Newcastle = 19 minutes
= 36 minutes (minus connection time)

X1 Direct
X1 - Galleries to Newcastle = 32 minutes

I can't see why people wouldn't just jump on the X1 at the Galleries if they were headed for Gateshead or Newcastle? They'd save themselves a bit of time in the process, and it's not too far from the Metro when you take into account connection times.

I think people prefer the convenience of having one bus going from A to B rather than changing onto other bus services and/or the Metro.


I can't speak for others, but personally I'd be prepared to put up with a journey time of 5 or 10 minutes more if it meant being able to stay on the same bus, and use a Go North East ticket.

11 - Newcastle - Scotswood Road - Blaydon - Ryton - Crawcrook - Greenside - High Spen - Chopwell - Blackhall Mill
Frequency Increased to Every 20 Minutes to cover for the Withdrawal of Service 32 between Newcastle and Blaydon

49 - Winlaton - Hanover Estate - Snook Hill - Parkhead Estate South - Shibdon Bank - Blaydon - Swalwell - MetroCentre - Dunston - Gateshead

49B - Winlaton - Heddon View - Blaydon - Swalwell - MetroCentre - Dunston - Teams - Gateshead

Operating Every 10 Minutes and Merging with Services 31/32/64/64A with Service 49/49B, Connections to Newcastle can be made at Blaydon & MetroCentre with Services 10/10A/10B/11, With an Upgrade to Double Deck Vehicles featuring Free Wifi.

[attachment=6831]

- 58X withdrawn.

- AM X39 allocated Citylink Versas from Stand N (07:25 and 07:55), Cobalt B9 (08:25).

- PM X39 allocated Citylink Versas (16:05 and 16:35), Cobalt B9 (17:05)

It would mean the following:

- 307 could be withdrawn completely.
- Non dependant on schoolars work (good for the holidays).
- Fewer afternoon 309 / 310 services being docked.
- No red Lolynes or B7s would need allocated to the Cobalt Clipper on a scheduled basis.
- Better reliability across all Cobalt Clipper and Citylink services.
- Deal on Citylink saver could be but in place to allow travel on the Cobalt Clipper services between Newcastle and Cobalt only.

Possible suggestion for a trial service between Durham-Crook/Stanhope. I think it'd be good if the X46 ran throughout the day too.

X46 - Durham-Willington-Crook-Tow Law-Stanhope

Every 30 minutes to Crook / 60 minutes to Stanhope.

(21 Jun 2015, 2:21 pm)Tom wrote Possible suggestion for a trial service between Durham-Crook/Stanhope. I think it'd be good if the X46 ran throughout the day too.

X46 - Durham-Willington-Crook-Tow Law-Stanhope

Every 30 minutes to Crook / 60 minutes to Stanhope.

Arriva briefly did a 46A between Durham and Stanhope but it didn't do very well although it was an infrequent service was 2 hours or even less frequent than that.

(21 Jun 2015, 2:30 pm)Jimmi wrote Arriva briefly did a 46A between Durham and Stanhope but it didn't do very well although it was an infrequent service was 2 hours or even less frequent than that.

Yeah that might be why.

Could potentially work well if marketed well. 

(21 Jun 2015, 2:39 pm)Tom wrote Yeah that might be why.

Could potentially work well if marketed well. 

Doubt it especially as it would be going against the more frequent Arriva 46 between Crook and Durham plus other services between Brandon - Durham.

(21 Jun 2015, 2:21 pm)Tom wrote Possible suggestion for a trial service between Durham-Crook/Stanhope. I think it'd be good if the X46 ran throughout the day too.

X46 - Durham-Willington-Crook-Tow Law-Stanhope

Every 30 minutes to Crook / 60 minutes to Stanhope.

The X46 (and various numbers before), did Newcastle - Crook until the mid-90's.
It gradually shortened to what we see now, although I think it did Newton Hall/Arnison Centre - Crook at one point.
United had it at the end, but Northern ran their buses previously.

Best way to do it is..

Upgrade the X21 with New Buses but buy more to launch the X46 and make it fall under a new brand for both routes.

X21: Every 30 mins ( 15 at peak times with peak times terminating at Durham ) New buses with Wifi, Plug Sockets, USB and next stop announcements.
X46: Every 30 mins ( 30 mins to Crook and every 60 mins to Stanhope )and the same for the buses as above.

The new brand should be like how Coast and Country follows the Coast And Country trail.

So I suggest North Pennine Connection, as Crook and Stanhope are located on the very east of the Pennine Hills and it sounds similar to Coast And Country.

Merge the 98/98A with the 64/64A or with the 95.

All the above services serve Dunston so why not have them merged with one of the above services... although this means an increase in PVR, which will be covered from the loss of the 64/64A - (more scania's need to be brought in from a different depot and repainted Highwayman.

Not sure of the area/routes.

---------------


Venture routes:
 
Merge services 130/131/704:

131 - South Stanley - Stanley - Acton Dene - Stanley Hall Estate - Stanley - South Stanley - South Moor - Quaking Houses - Stanley - South Stanley - Half hourly -  PVR 2 - Not sure if iv'e got it the right way around, someway you could work the route......... any help?

(21 Jun 2015, 8:10 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote So I suggest North Pennine Connection, as Crook and Stanhope are located on the very east of the Pennine Hills and it sounds similar to Coast And Country.

Too wordy of a name. Needs to be something snappy or memorable. People won't go around saying "Oh I'm just going for the North Pennine Connection" whereas they may say "I'm just going for the Red Kite" for example. 

Apart from that, not bad 

I can't help but think placing Crook within the North Pennines is stretching the boundaries a bit. Stanhope, perhaps. But Crook...

To me, a North Pennine Connection service would be a bus connecting Kirkby Stephen and Brough with Alston, Allenheads, Allendale and Haltwhistle.

(21 Jun 2015, 2:55 pm)Jimmi wrote Doubt it especially as it would be going against the more frequent Arriva 46 between Crook and Durham plus other services between Brandon - Durham.

I think the extension to Stanhope may have been supported by (or at least in cooperation with) New College Durham as it was about the time that we took on their students travelling back and forth. There is still one trip each way in each direction, but I'm guessing the demand just wasn't there during the day? Nice idea though!

(21 Jun 2015, 8:10 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote Best way to do it is..

Upgrade the X21 with New Buses but buy more to launch the X46 and make it fall under a new brand for both routes.

X21: Every 30 mins ( 15 at peak times with peak times terminating at Durham ) New buses with Wifi, Plug Sockets, USB and next stop announcements.
X46: Every 30 mins ( 30 mins to Crook and every 60 mins to Stanhope )and the same for the buses as above.

The new brand should be like how Coast and Country follows the Coast And Country trail.

So I suggest North Pennine Connection, as Crook and Stanhope are located on the very east of the Pennine Hills and it sounds similar to Coast And Country.

How about "Wear Valley Xpress" for the X21/X46, Would tie in with the promotion of the "Wear Valley Saver" on the 18/X21 between Durham and West Auckland.

(21 Jun 2015, 8:39 pm)Malarkey and MurdnunoC wrote  MurdnunoC
I can't help but think placing Crook within the North Pennines is stretching the boundaries a bit. Stanhope, perhaps. But Crook...


To me, a North Pennine Connection service would be a bus connecting Kirkby Stephen and Brough with Alston, Allenheads, Allendale and Haltwhistle.


Malarkey
How about "Wear Valley Xpress" for the X21/X46, Would tie in with the promotion of the "Wear Valley Saver" on the 18/X21 between Durham and West Auckland.

Just looked on Google maps and Crook isn't in the Pennines, but Stanhope is.

Wear Valley Express is a good name for it with new vehicles and a brand new brand.....Great!

Just thought of this, How about maybe twice or 3 times daily services venturing further in the Pennines,its 9 more miles to Wearhead the furthest in the county Durham area before Cumbria with Nenthead being a further 9-10 miles up from Wearhead
It would be a mini dalesbus type of service, with the same vehicles used                 Times
                                                                                                                Newcastle Esq   9:00 am  12:00pm  5.00pm
                                                                                                                      Wearhead   9:00 am   12.00pm  3.00pm  ( 8:00pm short to Crook )

the 9.00 am departure from Eldon Square would get into Wearhead for 11.30/45 with a 15 to 30 minute Layover. working the next service to Newcastle ( 12.00pm )
the same will count for the 12.00pm departures arrive 4:30 at Wearhead and Newcastle 30 minute layover in Wearhead but straight out for the one in Newcastle
the afternoon departure from Eldon Square is timed for 5:00pm to be more useful for people at work,shopping with arrival around 7:45 with a 15 minuete layover before returning short to crook before heading to the depot for the night.

This would make use of a underused crook depot.  the PVR will be around 15 or 16 due to 1 or 2 more buses for the extended services to Wearhead.

Service 9 and 80 changes:

Current PVR for routes:
Service 9 – 7 PVR
Service 80 – 4 PVR

New route:
Service 9: Sunderland - Fulwell - Boldon - Hedworth - York Avenue - Jarrow - Tyne Tunnel - Percy Main - Royal Quays - North Shields - Hawkey’s Lane - Billy Mill - North Tyneside Hospital - New York - Cobalt - Howdon – Wallsend

Service 9 and 80 merge making a new route and linking Sunderland to Cobalt - Takes 96 minutes – Every 30 minutes – PVR 7 (1 bus may added for layover etc)

Branded "Cross Tyne" - using Scania's

(23 Jun 2015, 5:16 pm)Michael wrote Service 9 and 80 changes:

Current PVR for routes:
Service 9 – 7 PVR
Service 80 – 4 PVR

New route:
Service 9: Sunderland - Fulwell - Boldon - Hedworth - York Avenue - Jarrow - Tyne Tunnel - Percy Main - Royal Quays - North Shields - Hawkey’s Lane - Billy Mill - North Tyneside Hospital - New York - Cobalt - Howdon – Wallsend

Service 9 and 80 merge making a new route and linking Sunderland to Cobalt - Takes 96 minutes – Every 30 minutes – PVR 7 (1 bus may added for layover etc)

Branded "Cross Tyne" - using Scania's

Couldn't be branded Cross Tyne as the 80 interworks with the 40/41 in Wallsend.

(23 Jun 2015, 5:19 pm)Tom wrote Couldn't be branded Cross Tyne as the 80 interworks with the 40/41 in Wallsend.

Lameeeeeeee well that plan went down the drain quick! 

Maybe a new route could be made for the 40/41 so they don't interwork no more, i'll have a look around!

(23 Jun 2015, 5:19 pm)Tom wrote Couldn't be branded Cross Tyne as the 80 interworks with the 40/41 in Wallsend.

It could be but the interworking patterns would need to be changed. Something which i'm not sure GNE would be willing to do?

(23 Jun 2015, 5:20 pm)Michael wrote Lameeeeeeee well that plan went down the drain quick! 

Maybe a new route could be made for the 40/41 so they don;'t interwork no more, i'll have a look around!

(23 Jun 2015, 5:21 pm)S813 FVK wrote It could be but the interworking patterns would need to be changed. Something which i'm not sure GNE would be willing to do?

Nah I doubt they would as the office is in North Shields, probably the main reason why they interwork.

(23 Jun 2015, 5:23 pm)Tom wrote Nah I doubt they would as the office is in North Shields, probably the main reason why they interwork.

Thought more buses went to Wallsend but i'm wrong... sadly can't see what they could do to change the 40/41 to go in with my new service suggestion...

(23 Jun 2015, 5:26 pm)Michael wrote Thought more buses went to Wallsend but i'm wrong... sadly can't see what they could do to change the 40/41 to go in with my new service suggestion...

Yeah it's a good idea too.

The 1 and 17 also go but of course they don't terminate there.

(23 Jun 2015, 5:29 pm)Tom wrote Yeah it's a good idea too.

The 1 and 17 also go but of course they don't terminate there.

I have no idea of the area so just using google maps but could they not merge the 40/41/80 as one long route?

(23 Jun 2015, 5:31 pm)Michael wrote I have no idea of the area so just using google maps but could they not merge the 40/41/80 as one long route?

Stealing a trick out of my book right there mind.