(26 Sep 2013, 4:42 pm)Daniel wrote Measuring 10.5 metres in length, the Citaro K is the shortest Citaro of Mercedes' regular service range. It can carry 87 passengers in total.

The Citaros we have just had delivered are just the usual Citaros we have at present (so they're longer than 10.5m). You will notice that the emergency exit is in the middle of the bus as opposed to the rear, so the internal configuration may be slightly different.

Cheers =D, wasn't sure, god i hate it when the emergency exit is in the middle...

PB0002400/204 - GO NORTHERN LTD T/A GO NORTH EAST, 117 QUEEN STREET, GATESHEAD, NE8 2UA
Cancellation Accepted by SN: Operating between Birtley Coach and Horses and Washington, ST Robert given service number 444 effective from 16-Sep-2013.

2nd part of the X7 VOSA -

PB0002400/485 - GO NORTHERN LTD T/A GO NORTH EAST, 117 QUEEN STREET, GATESHEAD, NE8 2UA
Variation Accepted: Operating between Peterlee Bus Station and Middlesbrough Bus Station given service number X7 effective from 17-Nov-2013. To amend Stopping Places and Timetable.

(26 Sep 2013, 4:44 pm)Michael wrote Cheers =D, wasn't sure, god i hate it when the emergency exit is in the middle...

Haven't really thought about it before, but it makes more sense on single door vehicles surely?

(26 Sep 2013, 5:40 pm)aureolin wrote Haven't really thought about it before, but it makes more sense on single door vehicles surely?

I think nearly all new single deck vehicles I have seen recently have the emergency exit in the centre offside.

(26 Sep 2013, 5:41 pm)citaro5284 wrote I think nearly all new single deck vehicles I have seen recently have the emergency exit in the centre offside.

Do you know if it's a change of legislation or something? Just seems more practical but hopefully not in place of emergency windows.

I just think its pointless, i don't know why.

(26 Sep 2013, 5:44 pm)aureolin wrote Do you know if it's a change of legislation or something? Just seems more practical but hopefully not in place of emergency windows.

Euro legislation I believe, so Wheelchair users have emergency access.

(26 Sep 2013, 4:44 pm)Michael wrote PB0002400/204 - GO NORTHERN LTD T/A GO NORTH EAST, 117 QUEEN STREET, GATESHEAD, NE8 2UA
Cancellation Accepted by SN: Operating between Birtley Coach and Horses and Washington, ST Robert given service number 444 effective from 16-Sep-2013.

Wonder who has that contract?
I often end up driving through Birtley on a morning and I was surprised at the numbers waiting in a Bobsies uniform

(26 Sep 2013, 7:00 pm)park5354 wrote Euro legislation I believe, so Wheelchair users have emergency access.

Spot on there with that one

Didn't think about that, seems a good idea but look at the enviros (ones with the middle emegancy door) - they are set out rubbish around that area

(26 Sep 2013, 8:21 pm)Andreos1 wrote Wonder who has that contract?
I often end up driving through Birtley on a morning and I was surprised at the numbers waiting in a Bobsies uniform

I know Sunderland Road now do the afternoon run, Maybe that it has been transferred from Go Northern to Go North East.

Shame to see GNE cost cutting on the X7 already (and adding extra stops into it) in a desperate attempt to make it profitable. Not exactly surprising, though!

(26 Sep 2013, 9:59 pm)tyresmoke wrote Shame to see GNE cost cutting on the X7 already (and adding extra stops into it) in a desperate attempt to make it profitable. Not exactly surprising, though!

A bit like Arriva did with the X4 and X5 from Blyth to Newcastle. A tour of Longbenton and South Gosforth or Freeman Hospital is not what people wanted....that many complaints, they had to put the route back the original...all bus companies are guilty of it's not just GNE

(26 Sep 2013, 9:59 pm)tyresmoke wrote Shame to see GNE cost cutting on the X7 already (and adding extra stops into it) in a desperate attempt to make it profitable. Not exactly surprising, though!

We already know that Go North East judge whether a service is commercially viable or not by looking at the number of fare-paying passengers on each and every run - not how much profit the service makes over a given period of time, looking at all passengers.

Quite frankly, if those runs are making a loss, we should have expected them to be withdrawn from Day 1. The X7 in general quite clearly is profitable however, because the service has survived its six month trial. I feel, providing the service does get upgraded to Solars once some are freed up in January, we should see another timetable change so that the timings between the X7 and X9 are further apart. At present, it's quite easy for passengers to jump off the X7 to get on the X9 (while having a 10-15 min wait in Peterlee) and still get there 5-10 minutes before the X7 would have done.

The service is successful, it just needs to prove that it can be reliable for GNE to gain passenger loyalty. The withdrawn runs we've seen in this timetable change could well be restored in the next timetable change IF the service does get upgraded.

(26 Sep 2013, 9:59 pm)tyresmoke wrote Shame to see GNE cost cutting on the X7 already (and adding extra stops into it) in a desperate attempt to make it profitable. Not exactly surprising, though!

Not forgetting the X1 re-routed via shildon & at the expense of the 1/1b from bishop to crook/tow law because it was loosing money!!!!!!!

It's common practice of all operators to withdraw certain journeys that aren't profitable or indeed withdraw it completely if they are making a loss on it.
Few operators will use a service that makes shedloads of money (i.e. 21) to keep a service like one of the quieter "East Durham" services going. As any business does, GNE needs to maximise their profit levels - whether this is done at the expense of a few customers or none at all, it needs to be done.

Looks like the new buses don't already have the CCTV in as just had 12 lots of equipment for them though work

BX63 BDO has been allocated fleet number 5359 & BX63 BCU allocated 5360

(27 Sep 2013, 8:43 am)nk55 wrote BX63 BDO has been allocated fleet number 5359 & BX63 BCU allocated 5360

Thanks =D

(27 Sep 2013, 6:33 am)Daniel wrote It's common practice of all operators to withdraw certain journeys that aren't profitable or indeed withdraw it completely if they are making a loss on it.
Few operators will use a service that makes shedloads of money (i.e. 21) to keep a service like one of the quieter "East Durham" services going. As any business does, GNE needs to maximise their profit levels - whether this is done at the expense of a few customers or none at all, it needs to be done.

Conversely, when an early morning run on a 202 or a 260 into Peterlee (which carries 6 passengers each) is axed - the x7 is impacted, because 4 & 3 of those passengers carried on their journey to get to work.
All of a sudden, the x7 is, 7 passengers short and a run which teetered on the edge of profitability, is suddenly making a loss.

Similarly, 5 passengers getting off a 21 after work, can't get an x25 or 71 at Chester to finish off their journey - because that has stopped for the evening.
So passengers find an alternative mode of transport to get to/from work.

When loads on the x7 and 21 are analysed, they realise numbers are down, so certain runs are also axed or cut short.
Except the only reason loads are down, is because the bus that takes passengers to/from home was stopped to maintain (or increase) profit levels....

It is a vicious circle and a key negative of this hub & spoke model in that is is forcing people into certain channels for their journey.

(27 Sep 2013, 9:12 am)Andreos1 wrote Conversely, when an early morning run on a 202 or a 260 into Peterlee (which carries 6 passengers each) is axed - the x7 is impacted, because 4 & 3 of those passengers carried on their journey to get to work.
All of a sudden, the x7 is, 7 passengers short and a run which teetered on the edge of profitability, is suddenly making a loss.

Similarly, 5 passengers getting off a 21 after work, can't get an x25 or 71 at Chester to finish off their journey - because that has stopped for the evening.

When loads on the x7 and 21 are analysed, they realise numbers are down, so certain runs are also axed or cut short.
Except the only reason loads are down, is because the bus that takes them to/from home was stopped to maintain (or increase) profit levels....

It is a vicious circle and a key negative of this hub & spoke model in that is is forcing people into certain channels for their journey.

Is this based on fact, or have you just made up this scenario?

Exactly what is happening to the X7

(27 Sep 2013, 9:27 am)eezypeazy wrote Is this based on fact, or have you just made up this scenario?

You tell me eezypeazy.
It could be fact or it could be anecdotal - even made up, like your comments about the 'R' series that only carry one or two people a week...

(27 Sep 2013, 9:32 am)Andreos1 wrote You tell me eezypeazy.
It could be fact or it could be anecdotal - even made up, like your comments about the 'R' series that only carry one or two people a week...

My 'R' series report is based on my observations... and I said they carry one or two people (ie., per trip), who travel once or twice a week... do keep up!

(27 Sep 2013, 9:41 am)eezypeazy wrote My 'R' series report is based on my observations... and I said they carry one or two people (ie., per trip), who travel once or twice a week... do keep up!

Sorry about that - missed that bit off!
My mistake.

It seems strange AdamY has observed more than 1 or 2 people on those buses mind.
To be honest, I have too.

But hey ho...

(27 Sep 2013, 9:27 am)2bagstew wrote Exactly what is happening to the X7

Not sure of the exact in's and out's, but it appears some of the runs are not doing the full journey.

(27 Sep 2013, 9:41 am)eezypeazy wrote My 'R' series report is based on my observations... and I said they carry one or two people (ie., per trip), who travel once or twice a week... do keep up!

May I have a link to this 'R' series report stating the methodology used for determining how many people travel per week based upon the (limited) observations made?

(27 Sep 2013, 11:19 am)AdamY wrote May I have a link to this 'R' series report stating the methodology used for determining how many people travel per week based upon the (limited) observations made?

'report' as in my report on here based on my own observation of buses carrying fresh air...

(27 Sep 2013, 11:58 am)eezypeazy wrote 'report' as in my report on here based on my own observation of buses carrying fresh air...

I wouldn't argue against what you say on certain sections of the route (or at certain times of the day). Between Clara Vale and Crawcrook (or Barlow and Winlaton), for example, I have only ever observed one or two people on the bus. However, between Ryton and Crawcrook (or Winlaton and Rowlands Gill/Highfield) there are usually more than one or two people using the service. As you're no doubt aware, the R3/R4 runs between Rowlands Gill and Clara Vale via Winlaton Mill, Winlaton, Blaydon, Stargate, Crookhill, Ryton and Crawcrook. As you can see, the bus serves a number of small communities along its route. If the bus, as you claim, only carries one or two people per trip, then it must not pick up any more passengers after the point where you have observed the bus or, indeed, dropped off any passengers beforehand.

I also don't understand how you've reached the conclusion that the 'one or two' people the bus carries only travel once or twice per week unless you've carried out detailed analysis proving this to be true. The R5 appears to be mostly used by pensioners carrying people between Rowlands Gill and Highfield. Presumably, they travel to the Gill to use local amenities such as Tesco, Doctors, or the Bank. Now, I know at least one pensioner who uses this service at least three or four times a week. Could it be possible that other pensioners use this bus more than once or twice a week? Also, the R3/R4 and R6 are used by schoolchildren travelling between Highfield/High Spen/Rowlands Gill and Blaydon and Winlaton (for St Thomas More School). So there's another demographic potentially using the service more than once or twice per week. Also some people I know use this bus to travel to work in Blaydon, perhaps others do too.

(27 Sep 2013, 12:26 pm)AdamY wrote I wouldn't argue against what you say on certain sections of the route (or at certain times of the day). Between Clara Vale and Crawcrook (or Barlow and Winlaton), for example, I have only ever observed one or two people on the bus. However, between Ryton and Crawcrook (or Winlaton and Rowlands Gill/Highfield) there are usually more than one or two people using the service. As you're no doubt aware, the R3/R4 runs between Rowlands Gill and Clara Vale via Winlaton Mill, Winlaton, Blaydon, Stargate, Crookhill, Ryton and Crawcrook. As you can see, the bus serves a number of small communities along its route. If the bus, as you claim, only carries one or two people per trip, then it must not pick up any more passengers after the point where you have observed the bus or, indeed, dropped off any passengers beforehand.

I also don't understand how you've reached the conclusion that the 'one or two' people the bus carries only travel once or twice per week unless you've carried out detailed analysis proving this to be true. The R5 appears to be mostly used by pensioners carrying people between Rowlands Gill and Highfield. Presumably, they travel to the Gill to use local amenities such as Tesco, Doctors, or the Bank. Now, I know at least one pensioner who uses this service at least three or four times a week. Could it be possible that other pensioners use this bus more than once or twice a week? Also, the R3/R4 and R6 are used by schoolchildren travelling between Highfield/High Spen/Rowlands Gill and Blaydon and Winlaton (for St Thomas More School). So there's another demographic potentially using the service more than once or twice per week. Also some people I know use this bus to travel to work in Blaydon, perhaps others do too.

So that is at least three different demographic groups - using the services in certain areas, at least once a week, possibly (and in some cases certainly) more?
From those demographics, you personally know individuals which fall into two of the categories and presumably have told you (or you have witnessed), they use these services.

Quite different to eezypeazy's report, based on his observation...
Unless the pensioner that uses the bus 3-4 times a week, is one of the people eezypeazy has seen