Arriva North East: Latest News & Discussion - February 2017

Noticed the Stockton X66 I was on yesterday made no announcements from leaving M'bro bus station until Chandler's Wharf! Didn't mention the Bon Lea or Thornaby Station!

does bus from jesmond depot run a school run that goes over redheugh bridge because I saw an Alexander Alx400 going over the bridge

(03 Feb 2017, 4:36 pm)Buses98 wrote does bus from jesmond depot run a school run that goes over redheugh bridge because I saw an Alexander Alx400 going over the bridge

There is a scholars that comes from Gateshead/Bensham and heads over to Blaydon. Can't remember the number unfortunately.

How come in the 'news section' of this website there are daily updates for Go North East but Stagecoach, and particularly Arriva, are never updated? Is it time restricting or is there just no news!? Arriva hasn't been updated in the news section since early December 2016. It's just a general query

(03 Feb 2017, 8:48 pm)JoshP wrote How come in the 'news section' of this website there are daily updates for Go North East but Stagecoach, and particularly Arriva, are never updated? Is it time restricting or is there just no news!? Arriva hasn't been updated in the news section since early December 2016. It's just a general query

Time constraints. It's what I can fit in between 5 and 6am on a morning!

Arriva North East Pulsar (no vynls or logos) probably ready to go into Frequenta branding for service 15 was broken down Norton Road (Norton) 15.00
Sorry no reg or fleet no.

(03 Feb 2017, 8:48 pm)JoshP wrote How come in the 'news section' of this website there are daily updates for Go North East but Stagecoach, and particularly Arriva, are never updated? Is it time restricting or is there just no news!? Arriva hasn't been updated in the news section since early December 2016. It's just a general query

(03 Feb 2017, 8:53 pm)Dan wrote Time constraints. It's what I can fit in between 5 and 6am on a morning!

The news section for Arriva has now been updated:
http://northeastbuses.co.uk/news/?operator=1

Let me know if there's anything I've missed... Will try and keep up a bit better in future

As it was mentioned in the Odd workings thread..........
1472 has transferred to Durham, with Stockton retaining 1474.

4701/2 are both now Frequenta branded (Generic Redcar version as per 4700)

(08 Feb 2017, 10:33 am)Kuyoyo wrote 4701/2 are both now Frequenta branded (Generic Redcar version as per 4700)

How many more routes will get this overused brand?, can't Arriva think of a new brand?

(08 Feb 2017, 10:37 am)Michael wrote How many more routes will get this overused brand?, can't Arriva think of a new brand?

What's the issue with Arriva using the same brand if it's working in terms of passenger growth? 

It's exactly the same as Go North East using Indigo everywhere.

(08 Feb 2017, 10:37 am)Michael wrote How many more routes will get this overused brand?, can't Arriva think of a new brand?

How is it overused? It's being used appropriately on frequent services. It's a quick and cheap way to promote services, why should Arriva fork out (on their already tight budget...) on a brand to make enthusiasts stop moaning? It's a brand that works, like Max and Sapphire.

(08 Feb 2017, 10:47 am)mb134 wrote What's the issue with Arriva using the same brand if it's working in terms of passenger growth?

Exactly - after all, how else could you brand a group of Frequent Services? There is no overuse of the brand in my honest opinion - although I do think we have reached the limit of routes that could be branded 'Frequenta' now - there's hardly any more 10 minutes frequency services that aren't already branded in one brand or the other.

But people said "Indigo" was overused for "Go North East"... But yet Arriva use Max, Sapphire or Frequata brand on most routes to promote them and it's not a problem... Go North East use Indigo in 3 different area's and everyone moans....

Btw i do think the Indigo brand is overused and shouldn't be extened anywhere else....

(08 Feb 2017, 11:05 am)Michael wrote But people said "Indigo" was overused for "Go North East"... But yet Arriva use Max, Sapphire or Frequata brand on most routes to promote them and it's not a problem... Go North East use Indigo in 3 different area's and everyone moans....

Btw i do think the Indigo brand is overused and shouldn't be extened anywhere else....

I think if you take into consideration just how many routes Arriva have, it isn't overused like.

(08 Feb 2017, 11:05 am)Michael wrote But people said "Indigo" was overused for "Go North East"... But yet Arriva use Max, Sapphire or Frequata brand on most routes to promote them and it's not a problem... Go North East use Indigo in 3 different area's and everyone moans....

Btw i do think the Indigo brand is overused and shouldn't be extened anywhere else....

But Sapphire, Max and Frequenta are marketed well. Flyers with free tickets get dropped through letterboxes on bus routes and Arriva actively promote their Sapphire, Max and Frequenta services online, on buses and in the streets (via posters and billboards).

GNE don't seem to shout about their network. The only "promotion" of "The 49" getting new buses I've seen is a Facebook post and a link to a timetable. 

In the end of the day, however bus operators promote their network, they need to make profit. Designing a totally new brand for each route is just a waste of money at Arriva.

(08 Feb 2017, 11:16 am)LeeCalder wrote I think if you take into consideration just how many routes Arriva have, it isn't overused like.

So do we now consider "Indigo" isn't overused then? Because Max etc isn't....


Question for all....

(08 Feb 2017, 11:21 am)Michael wrote So do we now consider "Indigo" isn't overused then? Because Max etc isn't....


Question for all....

I don't see Frequenta/Max/Sapphire as brands which need to be unique to a specific route - I see them as more of a classification. A rough comparison would be Tesco having 'Everyday Value' 'Tesco Own Brand' and 'Tesco Finest'. The brands can be applied to any product and the brand name tells the customer what they can expect to get for their money. With Arriva I interpret 'Frequenta' to be their cheap & cheerful city bus brand, 'MAX' represents a quicker, intercity service and 'Sapphire' is the premium luxury product. As a customer, I understand they are all provided by Arriva, but the brand name tells me what type of service I'm getting. It could also be a way to break down a complex network to potential new customers. If all routes across the region were divided into the three brands, then new customers would soon grasp 'Frequenta' takes them from their estate to the town centre and 'MAX' takes them from town to city. Even if the quicker service suggested by MAX isn't strictly true, such as the X46, it's all about what the brand says to the customer.

(08 Feb 2017, 11:21 am)Michael wrote So do we now consider "Indigo" isn't overused then? Because Max etc isn't....


Question for all....

I think part of the problem as to why GNE gets negative comments about the IndiGo branding is because they previously had different brandings for just about every service but now because things have changed some enthusiasts ain't pleased on the matter, there's complaints regarding the new 'the 49' branding with it just being a minimal branding on the corporate livery and no doubt if my theory of it being rolled out onto more routes soon (2/2A and 61 being some of my predictions) it will continue to be slated, as some can't seem to do owt else as they think everything GNE do is crap. Think Arriva only get less of a slating because most of the people who make such comments are only really intrested in GNE.

I personally feel that Frequenta, MAX and Sapphire is used in much the same sense as GNE have used IndiGo, where both have used them on various services that operate in the same areas, for example here is a breakdown of the major towns and cities that have at least one MAX branded service:

Darlington: X1, X26/X27, X66/X67, X75/X76.
Durham: X12, X46.
Middlesbrough: X12, X66/X67, X93.
Newcastle: X7/X8, X9, X10/X11, X12, X14, X15, X16, X18, X20.

Think part of the reason some see Arriva having so many MAX brandings is because each route has been branded individually rather than one generic branding covering so many services like IndiGo does and have been launched at various different times since 2014 onwards and more is rumoured to be getting the MAX treatment.

People say about Arriva's use of Frequenta being a bit excessive but it's no different to IndiGo except for the fact Arriva brand the specific routes, the only areas where Frequenta has really been used is Darlington where there is a fairly sizable network of town routes running at least every 10 minutes whilst Durham and Stockton have two routes each and Redcar have the 63. Hardly excessive in my opinion.

Think it's very much like James' comments about being like a "Tesco Value" type of thing where it's one big group product where people will start to recognise the brand and at least have an idea as to what type of service Arriva are providing.

I think Max has been overused, or certainly will be when the 306/308 are converted.

I don't really agree with the suggestions of Arriva overusing their brands. From a customer point of view, I think James101 has hit the nail on the head, the three brands are categorising services so customers know pretty much what each service does. From the point of view of Arriva, the brands are growing passenger numbers and therefore increasing income, leading to the potential for more investment. 

I think, generally, comparing Arriva and GNE branding is like comparing apples and oranges. (I know I compared Frequenta and IndiGo earlier, however from what I understand they serve a similar purpose). Arriva have branded routes into categories, whereas GNE went for an approach of branding anything and everything with no clear structure - bar IndiGo.

Do you not think that the purpose of branding is different for Arriva and different for GNE rather than having no structure?

When Go North East first introduced branding, one of the main reasons for doing so was to make it easy for customers to see their bus from a distance as well as the improvements to marketing.

Arriva seem to have many buses on the same corridor (particularly Newcastle - Regent Centre) which use the MAX brand with no difference apart from the information on the side. This, in my opinion, would not meet GNEs branding criteria. If they were to have all of the Morpeth, Alnwick and Berwick services under one identity and all of the Blyth services under another, maybe yes.


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(08 Feb 2017, 3:45 pm)S813 FVK wrote Do you not think that the purpose of branding is different for Arriva and different for GNE rather than having no structure?

When Go North East first introduced branding, one of the main reasons for doing so was to make it easy for customers to see their bus from a distance as well as the improvements to marketing.

Arriva seem to have many buses on the same corridor (particularly Newcastle - Regent Centre) which use the MAX brand with no difference apart from the information on the side. This, in my opinion, would not meet GNEs branding criteria. If they were to have all of the Morpeth, Alnwick and Berwick services under one identity and all of the Blyth services under another, maybe yes.


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Branding routes VS branding a route type?

(08 Feb 2017, 5:06 pm)Andreos1 wrote Branding routes VS branding a route type?

Yes, I think that sums each company's branding ideas up pretty well.

Arriva use MAX, Sapphire and Frequenta to differentiate their interurban expresses (well, arguably not with the X46 and upcoming 306/308), premium routes and high frequency routes from the basics. Go North East brand routes separately and, if they do share the same corridor for most of the route, have the same style brand with a different base colour, like the Citylink 57 and 58.

(08 Feb 2017, 5:10 pm)S813 FVK wrote Yes, I think that sums each company's branding ideas up pretty well.

Arriva use MAX, Sapphire and Frequenta to differentiate their interurban expresses (well, arguably not with the X46 and upcoming 306/308), premium routes and high frequency routes from the basics. Go North East brand routes separately and, if they do share the same corridor for most of the route, have the same style brand with a different base colour, like the Citylink 57 and 58.

Does this not suggest that "MAX" is being over-used, and that the brand identity has lost its original meaning (instead being used as a low-cost marketing ploy to attract passenger growth)? That's what I think, and have made clear for quite a while now.

The "Sapphire" brand has lost that 'premium' feel to it, in my opinion, too. This brand has been weakened by others being upgraded to "MAX" or "Frequenta", but encompassing the same premium features as "Sapphire". Once upon a time, you'd walk into Durham Bus Station and the "Sapphire" branded buses really stood out, as it was only service 7 which was encompassed in this brand. Now you have the 6, 7, 22, 24...

(08 Feb 2017, 5:15 pm)Dan wrote Does this not suggest that "MAX" is being over-used, and that the brand identity has lost its original meaning (instead being used as a low-cost marketing ploy to attract passenger growth)? That's what I think, and have made clear for quite a while now.

The "Sapphire" brand has lost that 'premium' feel to it, in my opinion, too. This brand has been weakened by others being upgraded to "MAX" or "Frequenta", but encompassing the same premium features as "Sapphire". Once upon a time, you'd walk into Durham Bus Station and the "Sapphire" branded buses really stood out, as it was only service 7 which was encompassed in this brand. Now you have the 6, 7, 22, 24...

I agree completely. There is a high inconsistency of features offered on each service too. Only Sapphire has a consistent set of features across all 82 branded vehicles. Breakdown of MAX and Frequenta below:

MAX (105 vehicles):

WiFi: 105
3-pin Plug Sockets: 5
USB Sockets: 28
Next Stop Announcements: 7

Frequenta (77 vehicles):

WiFi: 29
USB Sockets: 9
Next Stop Announcements: 18

While my point could be applied to Go North East too (e.g. indiGo Washington), cases of vehicles of the same brand having less features than others is something which happens a lot less than Arriva and, to me, as a whole, dilutes the brand. I personally think that the only reason that they 'get away' with the inconsistencies is because they only seem to market the WiFi on MAX vehicles.

(08 Feb 2017, 5:15 pm)Dan wrote Does this not suggest that "MAX" is being over-used, and that the brand identity has lost its original meaning (instead being used as a low-cost marketing ploy to attract passenger growth)? That's what I think, and have made clear for quite a while now.

The "Sapphire" brand has lost that 'premium' feel to it, in my opinion, too. This brand has been weakened by others being upgraded to "MAX" or "Frequenta", but encompassing the same premium features as "Sapphire". Once upon a time, you'd walk into Durham Bus Station and the "Sapphire" branded buses really stood out, as it was only service 7 which was encompassed in this brand. Now you have the 6, 7, 22, 24...

The 46 being rebranded as the X46 and MAXing isn't diluting the brand in my opinion, As its pretty much direct down the A690 to Crook, With it only really stopping regularly in Brandon and Willington, Aswell as providing a same spec 2nd bus an hour up to Tow Law/Stanhope, Though I don't think this will have been thought about as much.

It could be questioned that the stock used on the X46 are suitable for there role, As they've had a hard life already, Though that's another story.

I think weve seen the end of Sapphire tbh, As all standard interior and MAX spec's now feature the provision of Wifi and USB Port's, With MAX being classed as the Premium Spec, As it feature's High Backed seating, Completely outweighing the benefit's of having Sapphire all together, Aswell as discarding of the problematic NSA's.

This then gets me onto the 306/308, While its obvious the best service provision would've been Sapphire or Frequenta, Arriva have chose MAX as it's a " Premium " brand so can compete with GNE's offering on the same corridor, Without the hassle of Sapphire Trained Driver's, NSA's and Uniforms etc

No brand is diluted if there's no point in doing so, Both GNE and Arriva must be gaining more attention from there Indigo and Frequenta/ MAX brands respectively to justify all this rebranding.


I personally prefer branding from how First do it, Featuring bold, However differing color's from the corporate livery, Despite being based on the same design as Corporate, With Route Brands applied from there, However anyone will know that the bus is ran by First.
Another one I could rate better than First is Transdev, However It would take me ages to write about how good it is...

I would argue that the X46 did dilute the MAX brand, as the brand was expanded to include the service.

Think of it as that orange (other flavours are available) squash you can buy in shops. You fill 1/4 of the glass with the orange juice. This will represent services X10/X11, the first MAX services to be launched in the North East. Without water, the drink is now at its strongest but once you start to add water, the drink rises close to the top of the glass but also dilutes it until eventually, it has been diluted so much you may as well just have a glass of water on its own. In Arriva terms, as more and more services have been added to the brand, the overall meaning of the brand has been weakened, the X46 has contributed to this, as has every service that has been/is going to be upgraded to MAX after the initial X10/X11 launch.

(08 Feb 2017, 6:24 pm)S813 FVK wrote I would argue that the X46 did dilute the MAX brand, as the brand was expanded to include the service.

Think of it as that orange (other flavours are available) squash you can buy in shops. You fill 1/4 of the glass with the orange juice. This will represent services X10/X11, the first MAX services to be launched in the North East. Without water, the drink is now at its strongest but once you start to add water, the drink rises close to the top of the glass but also dilutes it until eventually, it has been diluted so much you may as well just have a glass of water on its own. In Arriva terms, as more and more services have been added to the brand, the overall meaning of the brand has been weakened, the X46 has contributed to this, as has every service that has been/is going to be upgraded to MAX after the initial X10/X11 launch.

I suppose it is arguable that any service which did not have an "X" as part of the service number prior to going MAX saw the brand being stretched to incorporate it...Yet the 75/6 and 46 are really the only two examples of this to date. In theory Arriva should have stuck to the services they had already deemed worthy of the "X" as part of the route number to signify an "express" route (though I still use the word express loosely even so!)

Regardless, I do see the X46 as the threshold between using the brand appropriately as an identification of an express/interurban route and exploiting it for profitability (and thus branding routes for the sake of it!)