(10 Nov 2013, 7:58 pm)tyresmoke wrote Not in the age of the internet...

But how was it marketed back then? Surely there were still levels of promotion and marketing without the Internet?
I guess the majority of the passengers the 685 carries are older than the Internet too though, so it doesn't really matter.
Perhaps the 685 could have benefited from a marketing push when it was upgraded to Omnicity/Enviros earlier this year? Go North East made sure they marketed the X85 as 'low floor', something of which both operators of the 685 couldn't boast about previously.

Mark - have you seen what passengers are like AM/PM peaks on the X85? Of course the revenue/profit generated on both services at other points of the day is good enough for the service to be sustainable otherwise a cut would have been made by now...

What are the changes being made to the 685 next month and what is going to be the difference between the 85 and 685?

(10 Nov 2013, 8:25 pm)Mark1 wrote What are the changes being made to the 685 next month and what is going to be the difference between the 85 and 685?

See original post here.
Will likely become the 85 between Newcastle and Hexham, and the 685 from Hexham to Carlisle? Believe it was originally discussed that's what it's 'meant' to be on Sundays at present - the reality on the other hand...

(10 Nov 2013, 8:29 pm)Dan wrote See original post here.
Will likely become the 85 between Newcastle and Hexham, and the 685 from Hexham to Carlisle? Believe it was originally discussed that's what it's 'meant' to be on Sundays at present - the reality on the other hand...

Thanks Dan.
I suppose they make sense if it is saving them money. I thought they may have introduced some extra peak time journeys on their X85 from Newcastle to counteract the GNE equivalent if these are successful for GNE.

The X85 normally has very poor passenger numbers. Yesterday, one only left with approx. 5 passengers. However, the X84 is a very popular service. It is considerably busier than the X85.

However, the 685 has been quite busy too. Not sure if this is because of passengers travelling further than Hexham or not. Yesterday a X84 was 10 minutes late so the 685 took all the passengers and left full. I'd hate to see the 685 and X84/X85 withdrawn as a result of these new services because passenger numbers aren't good on either services, but I personally don't think this will happen. The 685 has been around for years.

(10 Nov 2013, 9:04 pm)Liam wrote Providing information about the time of your spotting and which direction the vehicle was travelling, whether Newcastle or Hexham bound, would help? I've seen Go North East Red Arrow B9s crossing the High Level bridge towards Washington at 8 AM in the morning with 1 or 2 passengers, so even a service which is at the top of its game still has to run with few passengers on some parts of its journeys.

Hexham bound, around 13:15.

I can't see all three lasting.

Which of the three will remain, not sure - Arriva obviously have the added bonus of serving the villages beyond Hexham, it departs Eldon Square a few minutes before the x84/85 and it is an established service.
That has to stand it in good stead.

However, like other operators in other areas, Arriva have seemingly taken the market for granted.

(10 Nov 2013, 8:25 pm)Mark1 wrote What are the changes being made to the 685 next month and what is going to be the difference between the 85 and 685?

Believe it is getting split to go domestic, the split will be placed in Hexham I understand, service X85 from Newcastle to Hexham and then numbered 685 beyond there to Carlisle. Timetable should be available shortly but it may be seeing another vehicle change shortly, no doubt with an upgraded offering.

(10 Nov 2013, 9:20 pm)tyresmoke wrote Believe it is getting split to go domestic, the split will be placed in Hexham I understand, service X85 from Newcastle to Hexham and then numbered 685 beyond there to Carlisle. Timetable should be available shortly but it may be seeing another vehicle change shortly, no doubt with an upgraded offering.

Oh dear, I can't see that working very well...
Two X85s?

Almost as if Arriva are trying to pass their service off as the one Go North East are offering!

(10 Nov 2013, 9:23 pm)Dan wrote Oh dear, I can't see that working very well...
Two X85s?

Almost as if Arriva are trying to pass their service off as the one Go North East are offering!

This is one thing that really irritates me. No matter what people's thoughts are on QCS, you have to admit that having multiple services in the same area with the same service number is NOT a good passenger experience.

(10 Nov 2013, 9:23 pm)Dan wrote Oh dear, I can't see that working very well...
Two X85s?

Almost as if Arriva are trying to pass their service off as the one Go North East are offering!

Funny, I'm sure it's the other way round - given Arriva had been running an X85 for years before Go North East came along!

(10 Nov 2013, 9:23 pm)Dan wrote Oh dear, I can't see that working very well...
Two X85s?

Almost as if Arriva are trying to pass their service off as the one Go North East are offering!

You would think they would come up with a different route number....must have took a lot of thinking about. Of course with it been the same route number, GNE could benefit as well - People thinking it is X85 Arriva when it is X85 GNE

(10 Nov 2013, 9:09 pm)andreos1 wrote I can't see all three lasting.

Which of the three will remain, not sure - Arriva obviously have the added bonus of serving the villages beyond Hexham, it departs Eldon Square a few minutes before the x84/85 and it is an established service.
That has to stand it in good stead.

However, like other operators in other areas, Arriva have seemingly taken the market for granted.

I think this is a very valid point. Taken for granted indeed.

Arriva got caught out by the first stab from GNE between Bishop Auckland and Darlington, but again, as Service 1 and 1B was such a long standing option, many people continued to use it. Ultimately, the demise was written. I can see a very similar thing happen to the X85.

The X7 may remain, but only because it is piggy backing on the X9 and X10. The vehicles dilute the brand and look awful when lined up with an X9/X10 double decker. The X7 picks up most of the X9 patronage heading south and practically empty (except for a few busy OAP trips) heading north - as the X10 departs 10 minutes prior. I fully suspect Arriva are lining up amendments to the 21 and 21A in the coming months, which will see the viability of the X7. When Arriva changed the 1 and X1 back in March, the OK1 got withdrawn as I think even GNE realised they would never make the service viable.

I bet GNE are seeing passenger usage on the X7 that can be offset from reductions on the X9. Justification to operate it? Hardly. Just additional cost into the service corridor that was already adequately bus'ed.

(10 Nov 2013, 9:28 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Funny, I'm sure it's the other way round - given Arriva had been running an X85 for years before Go North East came along!

Maybe, but how often was the X85 - was it not only a peak time commuter service?

(10 Nov 2013, 9:28 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Funny, I'm sure it's the other way round - given Arriva had been running an X85 for years before Go North East came along!

Said service running a few times per day and being incredibly unused from personal experience?
I recall the service departing to Hexham empty not so long ago - is it any wonder I forget about it?

(10 Nov 2013, 9:23 pm)Dan wrote Oh dear, I can't see that working very well...
Two X85s?

Almost as if Arriva are trying to pass their service off as the one Go North East are offering!

Arriva has been operating short X85 peak journeys long before Go North East turned up!

(10 Nov 2013, 9:30 pm)Dan wrote Said service running a few times per day and being incredibly unused from personal experience?
I recall the service departing to Hexham empty not so long ago - is it any wonder I forget about it?

I'm sure arriva had the X85 before GNE? If anything GNE are trying to passing them off as the arriva service.

(10 Nov 2013, 9:31 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote Arriva has been operating short X85 peak journeys long before Go North East turned up!

Keep up Mark, you're about 5 posts behind!

(10 Nov 2013, 9:32 pm)CatsFast101 wrote I'm sure arriva had the X85 before GNE? If anything GNE are trying to passing them off as the arriva service.

Keep up CatsFast101, you're about 6 posts behind!

(10 Nov 2013, 9:33 pm)Dan wrote Keep up CatsFast101, you're about 6 posts behind!

Excuse me? Arriva use the X85 numbering for some short runs that terminate at Hexham, don't they?

(10 Nov 2013, 9:34 pm)CatsFast101 wrote Excuse me? Arriva use the X85 numbering for some short runs that terminate at Hexham, don't they?

See earlier posts. Read the same post by different people three times in 5 minutes just then!

GNE had the Newcastle - Sunderland X85 in the early 90s.

(10 Nov 2013, 9:39 pm)Liam wrote Shall we just see how many complaints come in, and how many petitions are created about the 685 this winter? Then again, the reliability of Go North Easts X85 could be mistaken for Arriva/Stagecoach's X85 reliability... Pahaaa, who am I kidding? Reliability on the 685 doesn't even happen now, god help them if a bit of snow covers the road.

I wonder how the Arriva runs will cope without the one hour layover they have at Carlisle at present? A backwards step, surely? Then again, all of those coffin dodgers aren't going to fund the driver's wages for an additional hour, are they?

(10 Nov 2013, 9:42 pm)Dan wrote I wonder how the Arriva runs will cope without the one hour layover they have at Carlisle at present? A backwards step, surely? Then again, all of those coffin dodgers aren't going to fund the driver's wages for an additional hour, are they?

Concerns me that the 685 can be classed as a local bus service anyway. There's no way the councils should be reimbursing operators to allow ENCTS holders to travel for free.

(10 Nov 2013, 9:29 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote I think this is a very valid point. Taken for granted indeed.

Arriva got caught out by the first stab from GNE between Bishop Auckland and Darlington, but again, as Service 1 and 1B was such a long standing option, many people continued to use it. Ultimately, the demise was written. I can see a very similar thing happen to the X85.

The X7 may remain, but only because it is piggy backing on the X9 and X10. The vehicles dilute the brand and look awful when lined up with an X9/X10 double decker. The X7 picks up most of the X9 patronage heading south and practically empty (except for a few busy OAP trips) heading north - as the X10 departs 10 minutes prior. I fully suspect Arriva are lining up amendments to the 21 and 21A in the coming months, which will see the viability of the X7. When Arriva changed the 1 and X1 back in March, the OK1 got withdrawn as I think even GNE realised they would never make the service viable.

I bet GNE are seeing passenger usage on the X7 that can be offset from reductions on the X9. Justification to operate it? Hardly. Just additional cost into the service corridor that was already adequately bus'ed.

The potential saving grace for GNE in this case (as opposed to Bishop/Darlington) is the substantial network at either end of the route in both Hexham and Newcastle, which can help feed into the x84/x85.

In Bishop/Darlo, GNE didn't have that, but ANE did.

Get what you say about diluting the market though.
It is something I have said previously in other discussions.

To put some of the "issues" to bed...
I've since found out that it will not be numbered X85 but simply service 85, and 685 beyond Haydon Bridge.
There's not much change to the daytime timetable so concerns over reliability are unfounded. The way it works with the Stagecoach trips in the middle means it can't be changed an awful lot without a whole re-write of the timetable and diagrams.

(10 Nov 2013, 10:16 pm)tyresmoke wrote To put some of the "issues" to bed...
I've since found out that it will not be numbered X85 but simply service 85, and 685 beyond Haydon Bridge.
There's not much change to the daytime timetable so concerns over reliability are unfounded. The way it works with the Stagecoach trips in the middle means it can't be changed an awful lot without a whole re-write of the timetable and diagrams.

Has anyone else noticed that the new timetable has 2 arrivals into Carlisle in the morning, but 3 departures - it looks like a bus will run empty from Newcastle to Carlisle. Plus some of the hour drop backs are gone, Gilsland is withdrawn, there's an early journey to Carlisle removed and the last bus back from Carlisle is an hour earlier.

Can see a few more public meetings beckoning and more column inches in the Hexham Courant !

(10 Nov 2013, 10:37 pm)busman101 wrote Has anyone else noticed that the new timetable has 2 arrivals into Carlisle in the morning, but 3 departures - it looks like a bus will run empty from Newcastle to Carlisle. Plus some of the hour drop backs are gone, Gilsland is withdrawn, there's an early journey to Carlisle removed and the last bus back from Carlisle is an hour earlier.

Can see a few more public meetings beckoning and more column inches in the Hexham Courant !

Yep. It seems like the councillors get to dictate what the operators do along this route, similar to how changes dictated by a councillor in Harlow Green can cause the rest of the Coaster service to suffer.

(10 Nov 2013, 10:52 pm)Liam wrote Moving off topic for a short while.

Has the Coaster route actually suffered? I see buses sat in Gateshead Interchange for prolonged periods far too frequently. Surely if there were problems those buses would not be having any layover?

The ones terminating at Gateshead seem fine, but from experience the Wrekenton runs seem to suffer.

(10 Nov 2013, 10:53 pm)aureolin wrote The ones terminating at Gateshead seem fine, but from experience the Wrekenton runs seem to suffer.

Most of the Coasters I see at Wrekenton seem to have quite a bit of time to lay over. They're usually saw hiding away outside the Methodist Church round the corner from the Bus Link.

From all the Coasters I've saw, I can recall only seeing one that came in and left again straight away.