(25 Nov 2013, 4:35 pm)CatsFast101 wrote I can't see why you don't think having a direct Sunderland-Newcastle via Chester Road is such a bad idea, it was a popular route. I agree personally its swings and round about in my opinion (Don't live in Sunderland) if I'm going from Sunderland-Newcastle I'm not fused wether I go via Chester Road/North Sunderland/Newcastle Road unless of course one takes longer than the other. But you live on Chester Road, so why don't you agree to an X2- I'm just struggling to understand your logic.

I prefer having a streamlined service. Likewise, bus companies prefer to operate streamlined services.

As I don't purchase return tickets and I instead buy day tickets (whether it's a Nexus CAT or Get Around), having a "turn up and go" frequency on both the 2A/2C and X1 is massively beneficial to me. It allows me to have greater flexibility when travelling. If I miss my X2, I have to wait 30 minutes for the next bus... 10 mins vs 30 mins..? Which sounds more appealing to you?

The X2 would be advantageous to me also as I'd have a direct service from A-B rather than a possible wait in The Galleries as the night progresses, but through the day, the 2A/2C and X1 is certainly the best option for me.

(25 Nov 2013, 4:43 pm)Dan wrote I prefer having a streamlined service. Likewise, bus companies prefer to operate streamlined services.

As I don't purchase return tickets and I instead buy day tickets (whether it's a Nexus CAT or Get Around), having a "turn up and go" frequency on both the 2A/2C and X1 is massively beneficial to me. It allows me to have greater flexibility when travelling. If I miss my X2, I have to wait 30 minutes for the next bus... 10 mins vs 30 mins..? Which sounds more appealing to you?

The X2 would be advantageous to me also as I'd have a direct service from A-B rather than a possible wait in The Galleries as the night progresses, but through the day, the 2A/2C and X1 is certainly the best option for me.

Must admit, the X2 is a rather pointless idea, and it will never happen!

Another reason why having a streamlined bus operation is beneficial to the operator...

Go North East can market/promote the "Red Arrows" X1 as being 'every 10 minutes'. This looks a lot better than 'every 15 minutes', as GNE would find it difficult to market a combined frequency between the X1 and X2.

Go North East's "SimpliCity" brand network heavily promotes the 'Simply turn up and go' slogan, which I believe is quite effective indeed.

I just want them to keep the 2A/2C the same as now, it helps me alot when im taveling on a morning and evening going to and from college

(25 Nov 2013, 4:43 pm)Dan wrote I prefer having a streamlined service. Likewise, bus companies prefer to operate streamlined services.

As I don't purchase return tickets and I instead buy day tickets (whether it's a Nexus CAT or Get Around), having a "turn up and go" frequency on both the 2A/2C and X1 is massively beneficial to me. It allows me to have greater flexibility when travelling. If I miss my X2, I have to wait 30 minutes for the next bus... 10 mins vs 30 mins..? Which sounds more appealing to you?

The X2 would be advantageous to me also as I'd have a direct service from A-B rather than a possible wait in The Galleries as the night progresses, but through the day, the 2A/2C and X1 is certainly the best option for me.

I certainly understood the operators marketing and streamlined frequent services are best and I get where you're coming from however in terms of passengers I'm not sure how many would agree though. I direct service is always more appealing to me, we've just been saying how the new Pygalls X27 to MetroCentre is great for us living in East Durham as usually I'd have to get three different buses to get there as opposed to one.

(25 Nov 2013, 4:50 pm)Dan wrote Another reason why having a streamlined bus operation is beneficial to the operator...

Go North East can market/promote the "Red Arrows" X1 as being 'every 10 minutes'. This looks a lot better than 'every 15 minutes', as GNE would find it difficult to market a combined frequency between the X1 and X2.

Go North East's "SimpliCity" brand network heavily promotes the 'Simply turn up and go' slogan, which I believe is quite effective indeed.

Simply turn up and go on the every 15 minutes SimpliCity 61 and every 20 minutes SimpliCity 39.

(25 Nov 2013, 4:56 pm)CatsFast101 wrote I certainly understood the operators marketing and streamlined frequent services are best and I get where you're coming from however in terms of passengers I'm not sure how many would agree though. I direct service is always more appealing to me, we've just been saying how the new Pygalls X27 to MetroCentre is great for us living in East Durham as usually I'd have to get three different buses to get there as opposed to one.

In most cases, frequency tends to win with customers (providing the journey time isn't a great deal quicker on another service) - that's pretty common knowledge, I'd say.
All of my friends prefer the 60 as opposed to the 61 because it's more frequent. Michael has just said above that he likes the 2A/2C at present because it helps him to get to college easier. Likewise, I used to have a routine for the times at which I go to school - I don't really have that anymore, and I get the first bus which turns up, which is quite often the bus which is every 10 minutes rather than every 15, 20 or 30!

(25 Nov 2013, 4:56 pm)CatsFast101 wrote Simply turn up and go on the every 15 minutes SimpliCity 61 and every 20 minutes SimpliCity 39.

You'll recall me arguing that the "SimpliCity" brand is not appropriate for the 61?
"SimpliCity" 39 operates every ten minutes between Doxford Park and Sunderland, so there's your 'simply turn up and go' frequency for that service.

(25 Nov 2013, 5:04 pm)Dan wrote In most cases, frequency tends to win with customers (providing the journey time isn't a great deal quicker on another service) - that's pretty common knowledge, I'd say.
All of my friends prefer the 60 as opposed to the 61 because it's more frequent. Michael has just said above that he likes the 2A/2C at present because it helps him to get to college easier. Likewise, I used to have a routine for the times at which I go to school - I don't really have that anymore, and I get the first bus which turns up, which is quite often the bus which is every 10 minutes rather than every 15, 20 or 30!

Well yes I will agree that a frequent service is good, which is why personally I'm not keen on all this A/B/C lettered routes as it detracts from that in many ways. However if I'm going Sunderland-Seaham (The Harbour) I'll wait a few minutes extra for the X7 as opposed to getting the 60 as ill get there quicker. I wouldn't say if I'm going to the Mill Inn I prefer the 60 to the 61 at all intact I'd often prefer the 61 during peak times as the scholars from The Avenue/Harbour/Dawdon were significantly more than those going to Murton. The only thing that I do now is that I'd often get a 60 to ride a Streetlite since they're new and I am a member of a bus group! However as far as normal passengers go I can't say anyone would 'prefer a 60 to a 61' especially when both had Versas.

(25 Nov 2013, 5:04 pm)Dan wrote You'll recall me arguing that the "SimpliCity" brand is not appropriate for the 61?
"SimpliCity" 39 operates every ten minutes between Doxford Park and Sunderland, so there's your 'simply turn up and go' frequency for that service.

Well yes we both agreed (See we do Sometimes agree Dan!) we weren't keen on having the 61 in the SimpliCity brand. For me albeit I was thought of it been 'out of the city' aswell as the 'Simply turn up and go' slogan. However GNE still have the 61 in SimpliCity brand so theres the problem.
Also should the consultation go through unchanged the extra 39's would be replaced by 26's.

(25 Nov 2013, 5:20 pm)CatsFast101 wrote Well yes I will agree that a frequent service is good, which is why personally I'm not keen on all this A/B/C lettered routes as it detracts from that in many ways. However if I'm going Sunderland-Seaham (The Harbour) I'll wait a few minutes extra for the X7 as opposed to getting the 60 as ill get there quicker. I wouldn't say if I'm going to the Mill Inn I prefer the 60 to the 61 at all intact I'd often prefer the 61 during peak times as the scholars from The Avenue/Harbour/Dawdon were significantly more than those going to Murton. The only thing that I do now is that I'd often get a 60 to ride a Streetlite since they're new and I am a member of a bus group! However as far as normal passengers go I can't say anyone would 'prefer a 60 to a 61' especially when both had Versas.

Like I say - if the journey time is the same, but the frequency is higher on one service, most people will go for the higher frequency service.

These quotes come from very early on this year, when the 60 was allocated Versas and the 61 was allocated Cadets. All of my friends know the difference between a Versa and a Cadet, and they often judged it on the interior alone - while the Versa has the 'refreshed' new interior style, the Cadets retain the old interior style. The smell, cleanliness and speed of the buses were also factors too - I'll let you decide which of the above factors my friends gave to the bus!
You said yourself when we were first discussing the original plan for the 39/61 that passengers know the difference between a Versa and Cadet, and it's true.

(25 Nov 2013, 5:20 pm)CatsFast101 wrote Well yes we both agreed (See we do Sometimes agree Dan!) we weren't keen on having the 61 in the SimpliCity brand. For me albeit I was thought of it been 'out of the city' aswell as the 'Simply turn up and go' slogan. However GNE still have the 61 in SimpliCity brand so theres the problem.
Also should the consultation go through unchanged the extra 39's would be replaced by 26's.

Ah, it is possible! We're better than A1 and eezy then!

I believe that even if the feedback was negative, GNE would still go ahead with the plan of axing the short 39s and replacing them in some way or another.
Allocating both the 39 and 61 Versas was a recipe for disaster.
I just hope that the consultation results show that most users were in favour of the proposed changes so that it hasn't worked out so badly after all.

Does anybody know which section of the 56 gets busy?

Sunderland to Concord section or Concord to Newcastle?

(25 Nov 2013, 5:39 pm)cbma06 wrote Does anybody know which section of the 56 gets busy?

Sunderland to Concord section or Concord to Newcastle?

Mainly Concord/Wrekenton to Newcastle!

(25 Nov 2013, 6:42 am)Dan wrote I live on the route, so would most definitely use it - I can only assume you do too, to get so worked up about it!

You shouldn't assume - I don't live on the route at all, though I did use the service a few years ago for various reasons. I can assure you that I'm not "worked up" about a bus route! Just tired of the arrogance and misrepresentation in your responses.

(25 Nov 2013, 6:06 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote You shouldn't assume - I don't live on the route at all, though I did use the service a few years ago for various reasons. I can assure you that I'm not "worked up" about a bus route! Just tired of the arrogance and misrepresentation in your responses.

From that, the following questions sprung to mind:
- Did you use it at certain times of day? Peak periods, perhaps?
- Did you use it between Sunderland and Newcastle, or just between, let's say, Washington and Newcastle?

I think you're turning the debate personal, so I suggest you end that there. I'm all for a debate as it allows for a greater number of responses and gets us all talking about something (which is often why I appear so controversial), but I won't tolerate an opinion which could be deemed offensive.

(25 Nov 2013, 6:10 pm)Dan wrote From that, the following questions sprung to mind:
- Did you use it at certain times of day? Peak periods, perhaps?
- Did you use it between Sunderland and Newcastle, or just between, let's say, Washington and Newcastle?

I think you're turning the debate personal, so I suggest you end that there. I'm all for a debate as it allows for a greater number of responses and gets us all talking about something (which is often why I appear so controversial), but I won't tolerate an opinion which could be deemed offensive.

Fair enough - but perhaps you might want to reflect that you oughtn't to have made the debate personal in the first place by trying to belittle my comments as me "getting worked up". The way to engage people in debate isn't for a mod to say whatever they like, then blame the other person for responding.

(25 Nov 2013, 6:17 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Fair enough - but perhaps you might want to reflect that you oughtn't to have made the debate personal in the first place by trying to belittle my comments as me "getting worked up". The way to engage people in debate isn't for a mod to say whatever they like, then blame the other person for responding.

It would have been great if you could have answered the questions and add to the debate rather than comment on the moderation of your post!

I can assure you that you've taken that completely out of context, and it wasn't intended in the way you interpreted it - it's obvious your opinions are going to be stronger on something if you're affected by the matter at hand, which is why both Michael and I have expressed that it would cause inconvenience to our daily routines, thereby meaning that a streamlined service is better to those who would prefer to 'turn up and go' (as previously discussed in previous posts).
I engaged you and others prior to that post - I didn't engage you by saying something that you've misinterpreted.

Maybe at the time of the X2, it was recognised that the majority of passengers were actually making a journey between Sunderland and Washington or Newcastle and Washington only? Is was therefore more worthwhile to provide those passengers with a more frequent single service across both routes.

re the comments on me and eezypeazy.

I come across a lot of people - good and bad, the majority of them, I can see their logic or reasoning behind a behaviour or action.

Apart from one or two ex-girlfriends (maybe people say the same about me), never in my life have I came across anyone that I just 'don't get'.

Without getting into a slanging match or making it personal, just wanted to let Dan and Catsfast know that despite fallings out or disagreements, neither of you fall into the eezyzpeazy category .

Picking up on all of these comments and it will be my final say on the matter after what I said earlier - the x1 struggles to cope at times due to 'increased passenger loads'.
How it would fit in with the 10min frequency promoted on the x1 advertising material I don't know - but something needs to be done between those points.
If it eased the load, fantastic - if it offered an alternative route south, east or west of the Galleries, then even better!
Whether it goes via A19/A1231 or A183/A182 from Sunderland, I aint sure.

From my own experiences, I don't think the 2a and 2c carry the amount of people it possibly should locally between Penshaw and the Galleries - so maybe that is where these discussions should be looking at.
It makes no sense to saturate Penshaw, Fatfield, Harraton, Lambton or Biddick with buses all going similar routes and to similar destinations.

I have had a thought, You know how the Toonlink Service 47 Extends to Serve Shotley Bridge and Consett on Boxing Day Every Year, why not have it extend from Blackhall Mill to Consett Permanently Every 30 Minutes and have it fall under the Red Kite Brand, Thus giving the Red Kite a Service Every 10 Minutes instead of Every 15 Minutes and have it use the Spare Omnicities at Percy Main, and have the B7RLE's go onto the X30/X31.

Doubt Red Kite needs a 10m frequency.

Issue would be timekeeping imo. Hard to maintain reliability at one end of the service. You do love your trademark Malarkey Marathons mind

(03 Dec 2013, 10:05 pm)gtomlinson wrote Doubt Red Kite needs a 10m frequency.

Issue would be timekeeping imo. Hard to maintain reliability at one end of the service. You do love your trademark Malarkey Marathons mind

It's been a while since I have had a "Malarkey Marathon" as I have ran out of Ideas for Bus Services, Until I thought of that after looking at the Boxing Day Timetables and then looking at the 45/46 Route to see what similarities there was to there Routes, They follow each other anyway to Rowlands Gill from Newcastle which provides a Every 10 Minutes Frequency along that Section of the Route.

(03 Dec 2013, 10:16 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote It's been a while since I have had a "Malarkey Marathon" as I have ran out of Ideas for Bus Services, Until I thought of that after looking at the Boxing Day Timetables and then looking at the 45/46 Route to see what similarities there was to there Routes, They follow each other anyway to Rowlands Gill from Newcastle which provides a Every 10 Minutes Frequency along that Section of the Route.

..of places that would possibly need a bus service via Washington Galleries?

(03 Dec 2013, 10:35 pm)aureolin wrote ..of places that would possibly need a bus service via Washington Galleries?

My name isn't Mr Pygall you know

I do believe if Mr Malarkey had his way that Washington Galleries would become such a hub of transport that Heathrow would start to look a bit quiet

(03 Dec 2013, 11:36 pm)gtomlinson wrote I do believe if Mr Malarkey had his way that Washington Galleries would become such a hub of transport that Heathrow would start to look a bit quiet

I think Newcastle Airport would be more Realistic.

My Service Ideas for Washington were purely based on the Current Developments going on in the Area including the New Cinema and Leisure Centre and wouldn't come into affect until after they were finished being built.

29 - Current 39 route to Ryhope Road, Burdon Road (if road system allows) Fawcett Street and Monkwearmouth Bridge.

Otherwise

Ryhope Road, Holmeside, Fawcett Street...

It needs to miss out Park Lane to make it attractive to passengers as a 'quicker' alternative.

(06 Dec 2013, 6:36 pm)andreos1 wrote 29 - Current 39 route to Ryhope Road, Burdon Road (if road system allows) Fawcett Street and Monkwearmouth Bridge.

Otherwise

Ryhope Road, Holmeside, Fawcett Street...

It needs to miss out Park Lane to make it attractive to passengers as a 'quicker' alternative.

Couldn't the new 29 route go the same route as the 39 between town and Hospital then along to Pallion to QA Bridge then peak journeys go via Enterprise Park or all journeys from North End of QA bridge to Southwick then old 26 route to Castletown, Don't know why some journeys have to go via Hospital as their are plenty of connections to other GNE buses which serve the Hospital, Theres a hourly service on the 73 which serves Enterprise Park, don't know why people complain about the 36/36A getting withdrawn at Enterprise Park when passengers can get on the service 73, the 29 should go via Trimdon Street and not over Monkwearmouth bridge as their is already a 10 minute service on service 56 between North Hylton Road and Town via Southwick.

(06 Dec 2013, 6:52 pm)cbma06 wrote Couldn't the new 29 route go the same route as the 39 between town and Hospital then along to Pallion to QA Bridge then peak journeys go via Enterprise Park or all journeys from North End of QA bridge to Southwick then old 26 route to Castletown, Don't know why some journeys have to go via Hospital as their are plenty of connections to other GNE buses which serve the Hospital, Theres a hourly service on the 73 which serves Enterprise Park, don't know why people complain about the 36/36A getting withdrawn at Enterprise Park when passengers can get on the service 73, the 29 should go via Trimdon Street and not over Monkwearmouth bridge as their is already a 10 minute service on service 56 between North Hylton Road and Town via Southwick.

with the new Tesco and the majority of people getting on/off on John/Fawcett Street with it being by the main shopping/banking areas I think it would work.
I believe that is one of the reasons why Stagecoach do so well.

Trimdon Street may be quicker from Park Lane, but if the majority of passengers are in the Bridges, they will just walk down and get on one of the frequent buses in Fawcett Street.

North Sunderland hasn't been cracked by GNE, so a different approach needs to be looked at.

By missing out Park Lane, it will also reduce operating costs and help profitability - which is ultimately what they want.

(06 Dec 2013, 6:59 pm)andreos1 wrote with the new Tesco and the majority of people getting on/off on John/Fawcett Street with it being by the main shopping/banking areas I think it would work.
I believe that is one of the reasons why Stagecoach do so well.

Trimdon Street may be quicker from Park Lane, but if the majority of passengers are in the Bridges, they will just walk down and get on one of the frequent buses in Fawcett Street.

North Sunderland hasn't been cracked by GNE, so a different approach needs to be looked at.

By missing out Park Lane, it will also reduce operating costs and help profitability - which is ultimately what they want.

if the 29 goes via Fawcett Street, then it could go along St Marys Way to Trimdon Street, but only after the council has realigned St Marys Way first.

206 - Peterlee - Yoden Way - Horden - Blackhall - Hesleden - Castle Eden - Wingate – Stockton – Middlesbrough

238 - Sunderland - Ashbrooke - Hollycarrside - Ryhope - Seaham - New Seaham - Seaton - Houghton-le-Spring

260 – Durham - Gilesgate Moor - Belmont - High Pittington - Easington Lane - South Hetton - Easington Village - Easington Way - Peterlee – Billingham - Middlesbrough

924 - Thornaby – Acklam – Linthorpe – Middlesbrough – Billingham – Peterlee - Essington Way - Easington Village - South Hetton - Easington Lane - Hetton Lyons - Rainton Bridge Npower

206 - Peterlee - Yoden Way - Horden - Blackhall - Hesleden - Castle Eden - Wingate – Stockton – Middlesbrough

238 - Sunderland - Ashbrooke - Hollycarrside - Ryhope - Seaham - New Seaham - Seaton - Houghton-le-Spring

260 – Durham - Gilesgate Moor - Belmont - High Pittington - Easington Lane - South Hetton - Easington Village - Easington Way - Peterlee – Billingham - Middlesbrough

924 - Thornaby – Acklam – Linthorpe – Middlesbrough – Billingham – Peterlee - Essington Way - Easington Village - South Hetton - Easington Lane - Hetton Lyons - Rainton Bridge Npower

924 Provides Peak Time Journeys between Thornaby and Rainton Bridge Npower to ensure Npower Employers from that Area can get to Rainton once the Thornaby Premises Close in the New Year.

Extension of the 206 provides links to the X7/X9/X10 and X35 at Peterlee/Stockton and Middlesbrough and would take Passengers to one of the 3 Locations so they can catch the Next Bus incase one of the 2 doesn't turn up, It will also provide links to the Current East Durham Services for links to Durham.

Extension of the 260 also provides links to the X7/X9/X10 and X35 at Peterlee/Stockton and Middlesbrough and would take Passengers to one of the 3 Locations so they can catch the Next Bus incase one of the 2 doesn't turn up, It will also provide links to the Current East Durham Services and Direct link Between Middlesbrough and Durham.

Service 238 would leave the Current East Durham and would be put under the New GNE Generic Livery

Other Current East Durham Services would remain Unchanged

[attachment=5046]

I've saw service 27X today and the loadings just weren't good at all. It came into John Dobson Street empty and left Pilgrim Street with about three passengers.

I think something needs to be done to provide unique and fast connections to different parts of South Tyneside. Can anyone think of any ideas?

(07 Dec 2013, 4:39 pm)Tom wrote I've saw service 27X today and the loadings just weren't good at all. It came into John Dobson Street empty and left Pilgrim Street with about three passengers.

I think something needs to be done to provide unique and fast connections to different parts of South Tyneside. Can anyone think of any ideas?

Have it serve Market Street rather than Pilgrim Street and then Gateshead Interchange and Extend it through to Jarrow from Hebburn. This would obviously add a bit of time to the Journey and increase the PVR, But it's the only way it'll work I think, as currently it doesn't cater to the Crusader 27 Passengers who live along that Route.