(07 Dec 2020, 10:07 am)Storx wrote If you ever go to Arnison and it's busy via McDonalds just go out the other exit which not many people know about via Sainsbury's car park and cut out by the KFC retail park. There's usually less queues. Not many people know about it

Well they didn't until you told everyone![emoji3]

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I've not been on the 21 through the Arnison Centre yet, so a question to those that have. Do many people get on/off the 21 there?

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(07 Dec 2020, 9:59 am)omnicity4659 wrote I know this isn't the place for traffic management suggestions... but would it be a good idea to have the road past McDonald's one way, with the left lane for McDonald's queues and the right lane for buses and traffic exiting the park, whilst traffic entering uses the Sainsbury's slip road and around the edge of their car park? 

I've only been around in the car late-evening/post-midnight so I don't actually know if the above would work.

Not sure. It may just move the issues elsewhere and impact on sainsburys. 
Not sure if their little bit is owned by them with it being separate to the rest. 

(07 Dec 2020, 10:07 am)Storx wrote If you ever go to Arnison and it's busy via McDonalds just go out the other exit which not many people know about via Sainsbury's car park and cut out by the KFC retail park. There's usually less queues. Not many people know about it

Just don't park there and go to the other bit. They're two separate retail parks and the parking wardens in the kfc/asda living bit are notorious for slapping fines on those who park there in the Mercia and go to the Arnison.

(07 Dec 2020, 10:09 am)big mac wrote Well they didn't until you told everyone![emoji3]

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I've not been on the 21 through the Arnison Centre yet, so a question to those that have. Do many people get on/off the 21 there?

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using Tapatalk

It seems to be about as well used as any other service that goes to Arnison.

We were at the Arnison the other day and when driving past McDonalds, an absolute twat in a BMW (who'd have thought it) came speeding down the wrong side of the road to cut out the traffic, just squeezing between us and the other cars.
Had it have been me driving I'd have purposely blocked it and caused some right drama, but my mother moved over and let them past!

I don't know why people insist on going through the McDonalds drive through, we just park in Sainsbury's and walk over, then drive out the other way past KFC. Were usually in and out before cars have moved down one space!

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(07 Dec 2020, 10:28 am)Andreos1 wrote Not sure. It may just move the issues elsewhere and impact on sainsburys. 
Not sure if their little bit is owned by them with it being separate to the rest. 


Just don't park there and go to the other bit. They're two separate retail parks and the parking wardens in the kfc/asda living bit are notorious for slapping fines on those who park there in the Mercia and go to the Arnison.

Yeah, my mother works at Sainsbury's and she's been told to stay clear of the Mercia car park. She works weekends so she spends half her time finding a parking space, they used to have an overflow carpark in Northumbrian Water for staff but I don't think they do that anymore.

Its got to the point where she'd rather get the bus in because of the parking, but with her finishing any time between 2 and 6am she couldn't get home!

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(07 Dec 2020, 6:23 am)Michael wrote Looks like 8339-43 are allocated to the 9 today.

Confirmed to be allocated to the 9 and will soon to be fitted with free Wi-Fi and ‘next stop’ audio-visual announcements.


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8344 (NL63 XBO), 8345 (NL63 XBP) and 8346 (NL63 XBR) have all transferred from Riverside Depot to Chester-le-Street, for use on service 34.

Full list:

Repaints last week included Wright Streetlite DF/Wright Streetlite Max Micro-Hybrid 5418 (NK15 EOJ) and Optare Versa V1110/Optare 8316 (NK10 GOJ) into the 2019 fleet livery; as well as Optare Versa V1170/Optare 5380 (NL63 YAF), 5381 (NL63 YAG) and 5382 (NL63 YAH) into the new “Quaycity” livery, marking the completion of the latter batch.

Optare Versa V1110/Optare 8316 (NK10 GOJ) has now returned to service at Riverside, with Scania N270UD/East Lancs OmniDekka 9065 (YN57 FYP) taken out of service in lieu. The batch of four OmniDekkas on loan from Brighton & Hove will now remain in the fleet permanently, although the three coaches on loan to Brighton & Hove remain within Go North East’s fleet, on loan to Brighton. All four OmniDekkas will be repainted and have their seats re-trimmed.

Following completion of engine repairs and repaint; Wright Streetlite DF/Wright Streetlite Max Micro-Hybrid 5418 (NK15 EOJ) has now transferred from Consett Depot to Deptford, together with former “Red Kite” branded sisters 5416 (NK15 EOG) and 5417 (NK15 EOH) from Riverside.

Wright Streetlite DF/Wright Streetlite 8339 (NL63 XBH), 8340 (NL63 XBJ), 8341 (NL63 XBK), 8342 (NL63 XBM) and 8343 (NL63 XBN) have all transferred from Riverside Depot to Deptford, following the entry into service of the new Yutong E10 vehicles on “Saltwell Park” services 53/54. They will be allocated to service 9 (Sunderland – Lukes Lane via Jarrow), and are soon to be fitted with free Wi-Fi and ‘next stop’ audio-visual announcements.

Ex Go South Coast Mercedes Citaro 0350N/Mercedes Citaro 5337 (HF06 FUA) and 5338 (HF06 FUB) have consequently transferred from Deptford to Riverside, while native Citaros 5306 (NK08 CHO), 5307 (NK08 CHV) and 5308 (NK08 CHX) have all been taken out of service from Deptford (though remain available to be reinstated if required for extra duplicate services in operation in the lead up to Christmas). Similar 5309 (NK08 CHY) and 5310 (NK08 MXY) have both transferred from Deptford to Percy Main, allowing 5311 (NK08 MXZ) to be taken out of service and 5312 (NK08 MYA) permanently withdrawn from service. The latter did not enter service at Percy Main due to being off service for engine repairs.

Wright Streetlite DF/Wright Streetlite 8344 (NL63 XBO), 8345 (NL63 XBP) and 8346 (NL63 XBR) have all transferred from Riverside Depot to Chester-le-Street, for use on service 34. This has displaced andScania CN230UB/Scania Omnicity 5272 (NK56 KKH), 5273 (NK56 KKJ) and 5274 (NK56 KKL) from Chester-le-Street Depot to Percy Main, for temporary allocation to “Cobalt & Coast” service 311, due to low passenger numbers on this service, which will allow the displacement of double-decks to be more appropriately used.

Scania N94UD/East Lancs OmniDekka 6132 (YN04 GJF) has transferred from Percy Main Depot to Riverside, displacing Volvo B9TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 6099 (NL63 YJC) to Deptford.

Scania N94UD/East Lancs OmniDekka 6134 (YN04 GJU) and 6135 (YN04 GJV) have transferred from Percy Main Depot to Washington, allowing one board on services 5/50 to be upgraded to double-deck to allow better social distancing, and to allow the transfer of Volvo B9TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 6050 (NK12 GDE) to Deptford.

Scania CN230UB/Scania Omnicity 5250 (NK56 KHW) has transferred from Washington to Riverside, displacing dual-door Volvo B7TL/Plaxton President 6934 (LX54 GZZ) to Hexham for use on the 680S scholars duplicate service, in turn allowing the release and re-allocation of Volvo B9TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 6043 (NK12 GCO) to Deptford.

The inward transfer of the three Volvo B9TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 to Deptford has displaced similar “Fab Fifty Six” branded examples 6091 (NL63 YHU), 6092 (NL63 YHV) and 6093 (NL63 YHW) to be taken out of service for repaint and seat re-trim at Bus & Coach World, Blackburn.

Ahead of the impending launch of the new vehicles, ADL Trident 2/ADL Enviro 400MMC 6337 (YY64 GWX) has now transferred from Consett Depot to Hexham.

Several swaps of minibuses have been undertaken. These are Optare Solo SR M890/Optare 634 (NK61 FJO) from Deptford to Washington, and Optare Solo SR M925/Optare 678 (NK16 BXW) to Deptford in lieu; Optare Solo SR M890/Optare 696 (YJ13 HOH) to Percy Main and Optare Solo SR M925/Optare 677 (NK16 BXV) in lieu; and Optare Solo SR M900/Optare 721 (KY63 VTL) to Washington and Optare Solo SR M900SL/Optare 723 (YD63 UZC) to Hexham in lieu.

Source: Go North East fleet update.

(07 Dec 2020, 4:44 pm)Michael wrote Confirmed to be allocated to the 9 and will soon to be fitted with free Wi-Fi and ‘next stop’ audio-visual announcements.


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8344 (NL63 XBO), 8345 (NL63 XBP) and 8346 (NL63 XBR) have all transferred from Riverside Depot to Chester-le-Street, for use on service 34.

Full list:

Repaints last week included Wright Streetlite DF/Wright Streetlite Max Micro-Hybrid 5418 (NK15 EOJ) and Optare Versa V1110/Optare 8316 (NK10 GOJ) into the 2019 fleet livery; as well as Optare Versa V1170/Optare 5380 (NL63 YAF), 5381 (NL63 YAG) and 5382 (NL63 YAH) into the new “Quaycity” livery, marking the completion of the latter batch.

Optare Versa V1110/Optare 8316 (NK10 GOJ) has now returned to service at Riverside, with Scania N270UD/East Lancs OmniDekka 9065 (YN57 FYP) taken out of service in lieu. The batch of four OmniDekkas on loan from Brighton & Hove will now remain in the fleet permanently, although the three coaches on loan to Brighton & Hove remain within Go North East’s fleet, on loan to Brighton. All four OmniDekkas will be repainted and have their seats re-trimmed.

Following completion of engine repairs and repaint; Wright Streetlite DF/Wright Streetlite Max Micro-Hybrid 5418 (NK15 EOJ) has now transferred from Consett Depot to Deptford, together with former “Red Kite” branded sisters 5416 (NK15 EOG) and 5417 (NK15 EOH) from Riverside.

Wright Streetlite DF/Wright Streetlite 8339 (NL63 XBH), 8340 (NL63 XBJ), 8341 (NL63 XBK),  8342 (NL63 XBM) and 8343 (NL63 XBN) have all transferred from Riverside Depot to Deptford, following the entry into service of the new Yutong E10 vehicles on “Saltwell Park” services 53/54. They will be allocated to service 9 (Sunderland – Lukes Lane via Jarrow), and are soon to be fitted with free Wi-Fi and ‘next stop’ audio-visual announcements.

Ex Go South Coast Mercedes Citaro 0350N/Mercedes Citaro 5337 (HF06 FUA) and 5338 (HF06 FUB) have consequently transferred from Deptford to Riverside, while native Citaros 5306 (NK08 CHO), 5307 (NK08 CHV) and 5308 (NK08 CHX) have all been taken out of service from Deptford (though remain available to be reinstated if required for extra duplicate services in operation in the lead up to Christmas). Similar 5309 (NK08 CHY) and 5310 (NK08 MXY) have both transferred from Deptford to Percy Main, allowing 5311 (NK08 MXZ) to be taken out of service and 5312 (NK08 MYA) permanently withdrawn from service. The latter did not enter service at Percy Main due to being off service for engine repairs.

Wright Streetlite DF/Wright Streetlite 8344 (NL63 XBO), 8345 (NL63 XBP) and 8346 (NL63 XBR) have all transferred from Riverside Depot to Chester-le-Street, for use on service 34. This has displaced andScania CN230UB/Scania Omnicity 5272 (NK56 KKH), 5273 (NK56 KKJ) and 5274 (NK56 KKL) from Chester-le-Street Depot to Percy Main, for temporary allocation to “Cobalt & Coast” service 311, due to low passenger numbers on this service, which will allow the displacement of double-decks to be more appropriately used.

Scania N94UD/East Lancs OmniDekka 6132 (YN04 GJF) has transferred from Percy Main Depot to Riverside, displacing Volvo B9TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 6099 (NL63 YJC) to Deptford.

Scania N94UD/East Lancs OmniDekka 6134 (YN04 GJU) and 6135 (YN04 GJV) have transferred from Percy Main Depot to Washington, allowing one board on services 5/50 to be upgraded to double-deck to allow better social distancing, and to allow the transfer of Volvo B9TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 6050 (NK12 GDE) to Deptford.

Scania CN230UB/Scania Omnicity 5250 (NK56 KHW) has transferred from Washington to Riverside, displacing dual-door Volvo B7TL/Plaxton President 6934 (LX54 GZZ) to Hexham for use on the 680S scholars duplicate service, in turn allowing the release and re-allocation of Volvo B9TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 6043 (NK12 GCO) to Deptford.

The inward transfer of the three Volvo B9TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 to Deptford has displaced similar “Fab Fifty Six” branded examples 6091 (NL63 YHU), 6092 (NL63 YHV) and 6093 (NL63 YHW) to be taken out of service for repaint and seat re-trim at Bus & Coach World, Blackburn.

Ahead of the impending launch of the new vehicles, ADL Trident 2/ADL Enviro 400MMC 6337 (YY64 GWX) has now transferred from Consett Depot to Hexham.

Several swaps of minibuses have been undertaken. These are Optare Solo SR M890/Optare 634 (NK61 FJO) from Deptford to Washington, and Optare Solo SR M925/Optare 678 (NK16 BXW) to Deptford in lieu; Optare Solo SR M890/Optare 696 (YJ13 HOH) to Percy Main and Optare Solo SR M925/Optare 677 (NK16 BXV) in lieu; and Optare Solo SR M900/Optare 721 (KY63 VTL) to Washington and Optare Solo SR M900SL/Optare 723 (YD63 UZC) to Hexham in lieu.

Source: Go North East fleet update.

Interesting to note that the 311 / 57 / 58 or whatever number it takes this week is struggling again, it's nice to see that they keep trying with Hadrian Park but it's just a matter of time before something has to give whether that's sending the 310 around there all the time or something else. There's definitely too many buses going down the Coast Road (as already said multiple times) and Hadrian Park itself doesn't need 3 deckers going around there an hour just to Newcastle.

(07 Dec 2020, 5:30 pm)Storx wrote Interesting to note that the 311 / 57 / 58 or whatever number it takes this week is struggling again, it's nice to see that they keep trying with Hadrian Park but it's just a matter of time before something has to give whether that's sending the 310 around there all the time or something else. There's definitely too many buses going down the Coast Road (as already said multiple times) and Hadrian Park itself doesn't need 3 deckers going around there an hour just to Newcastle.

With smart ticketing on the horizon although early days, could they not introduce a "capped fare" from Hadrian Park on the 41 and then allow passengers to continue from Battle Hill using the 309 & 310? Obviously diverting evening 310 journeys via Hadrian Park would make sense for ease of use as well as the due to the evening 41 journeys being run by another operator.

(07 Dec 2020, 5:30 pm)Storx wrote Interesting to note that the 311 / 57 / 58 or whatever number it takes this week is struggling again, it's nice to see that they keep trying with Hadrian Park but it's just a matter of time before something has to give whether that's sending the 310 around there all the time or something else. There's definitely too many buses going down the Coast Road (as already said multiple times) and Hadrian Park itself doesn't need 3 deckers going around there an hour just to Newcastle.

It's always struggled and I think the fact that it follows the same route as 40/41/310 & 335 does not help it at all as it literally carries fresh air, Personally i'd withdraw the service or merge it with other services to make it more sustainable to operate as I think extending it from Hadrian Park towards North Shields for example would be a risk that may not pay off.

(07 Dec 2020, 6:11 pm)L469 YVK wrote With smart ticketing on the horizon although early days, could they not introduce a "capped fare" from Hadrian Park on the 41 and then allow passengers to continue from Battle Hill using the 309 & 310? Obviously diverting evening 310 journeys via Hadrian Park would make sense for ease of use as well as the due to the evening 41 journeys being run by another operator.

Would people do it though but then again is anyone using it in the first place, most people could easily walk even known it's 15 minutes probably easier than the change.

(07 Dec 2020, 6:17 pm)Malarkey wrote It's always struggled and I think the fact that it follows the same route as 40/41/310 & 335 does not help it at all as it literally carries fresh air, Personally i'd withdraw the service or merge it with other services to make it more sustainable to operate as I think extending it from Hadrian Park towards North Shields for example would be a risk that may not pay off.

It's a funny place Hadrian Park, it's got a lot of buses really compared to other areas around there like Rosehill which doesn't have a bus service at all, almost too many for the size of the place but it would be sad for them to lose the Newcastle route. Be hard to merge it with others though as it's such a diversion from anywhere almost 8 mins by the look of it. Could always try and extend the short 41's to Newcastle as some of express 1 running direct along the A193, then non-stop from Byker to Newcastle; not sure if it would be popular though.

Least then when it doesn't work, you just get arid of it from Wallsend to Newcastle again and no-one moans.

"for temporary allocation to “Cobalt & Coast” service 311, due to low passenger numbers on this service, which will allow the displacement of double-decks to be more appropriately used. "

Are we likely to see the 'Spare' Cobalt and Coast B9's "Xlined" and put to use at Consett perhaps, to complete the PVR of the services there, thus allowing the Red Kite B9's to transfer down to EYMS.

(07 Dec 2020, 10:36 am)streetdeckfan wrote It seems to be about as well used as any other service that goes to Arnison.

We were at the Arnison the other day and when driving past McDonalds, an absolute twat in a BMW (who'd have thought it) came speeding down the wrong side of the road to cut out the traffic, just squeezing between us and the other cars.
Had it have been me driving I'd have purposely blocked it and caused some right drama, but my mother moved over and let them past!

I don't know why people insist on going through the McDonalds drive through, we just park in Sainsbury's and walk over, then drive out the other way past KFC. Were usually in and out before cars have moved down one space!

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Yeah, my mother works at Sainsbury's and she's been told to stay clear of the Mercia car park. She works weekends so she spends half her time finding a parking space, they used to have an overflow carpark in Northumbrian Water for staff but I don't think they do that anymore.

Its got to the point where she'd rather get the bus in because of the parking, but with her finishing any time between 2 and 6am she couldn't get home! 

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That's probably a whole new debate, for a whole new thread. 
But yeah, totally get it and totally understand it. If she can't use the bus to get home, then the chances are she's not going to use the bus to get to work and she will contribute to the issues which delay the buses in the first place.

We are told that buses are better than ever, are nicer than ever and services are frequent. 
They may be for some, but not for those on shifts, not for those who have to plan journeys/connections with military precision or who have a boat load of shopping to lug around and have no chance of fitting it on to the seats or in to the tiny on-board storage facilities.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have an issue with operators encouraging us to make the modal transfer. I do have an issue in them encouraging us to do it when it doesn't work as it could or isn't as convenient as it could be.
There is so much work which could be done, beyond sending a bus or two (which have a naturally limited footprint and follow each other for a section of the route) in to a retail park and then complaining that it is stuck in traffic (likely to be those who can't, won't or are unable to use their two buses which serve the retail park - 21/X20 or 62/64). 

I'd argue that both Dalton and Teesside Park' Silverlink and also Retail World are all in the same boat as the Arnison Centre. They all have buses which follow a similar route and have that naturally limited footprint as a result.

(07 Dec 2020, 6:41 pm)Storx wrote Would people do it though but then again is anyone using it in the first place, most people could easily walk even known it's 15 minutes probably easier than the change.


It's a funny place Hadrian Park, it's got a lot of buses really compared to other areas around there like Rosehill which doesn't have a bus service at all, almost too many for the size of the place but it would be sad for them to lose the Newcastle route. Be hard to merge it with others though as it's such a diversion from anywhere almost 8 mins by the look of it. Could always try and extend the short 41's to Newcastle as some of express 1 running direct along the A193, then non-stop from Byker to Newcastle; not sure if it would be popular though.

Least then when it doesn't work, you just get arid of it from Wallsend to Newcastle again and no-one moans.

I'd extend the Q3 from Wallsend to Hadrian Park to replace the 40/41 & 311, no need to have so many routes on the same corridor although same could be argued for other areas like Silksworth to Sunderland City Centre for example.

I think Go North East right now given the current climate we are in with Covid need to cut and merge services together to make them more sustainable in the long term as it would be some services look more profitable and would save them money in the longer term.

(07 Dec 2020, 6:58 pm)Andreos1 wrote That's probably a whole new debate, for a whole new thread. 
But yeah, totally get it and totally understand it. If she can't use the bus to get home, then the chances are she's not going to use the bus to get to work and she will contribute to the issues which delay the buses in the first place.

We are told that buses are better than ever, are nicer than ever and services are frequent. 
They may be for some, but not for those on shifts, not for those who have to plan journeys/connections with military precision or who have a boat load of shopping to lug around and have no chance of fitting it on to the seats or in to the tiny on-board storage facilities.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have an issue with operators encouraging us to make the modal transfer. I do have an issue in them encouraging us to do it when it doesn't work as it could or isn't as convenient as it could be.
There is so much work which could be done, beyond sending a bus or two (which have a naturally limited footprint and follow each other for a section of the route) in to a retail park and then complaining that it is stuck in traffic (likely to be those who can't, won't or are unable to use their two buses which serve the retail park - 21/X20 or 62/64). 

I'd argue that both Dalton and Teesside Park' Silverlink and also Retail World are all in the same boat as the Arnison Centre. They all have buses which follow a similar route and have that naturally limited footprint as a result.

I believe the Arnison Centre is worse in that the bus link is directly in the centre, and there is essentially only one single lane out. Like it's been said before buses can get in easily enough, but getting out is nigh on impossible. There really needs to be a layout change so buses can get out, perhaps enlarge the roundabout so buses can do a U turn and go straight back out?

At least with the Team Valley the bus doesn't go directly into Retail World, it drops you off outside and can relatively easily get in and out.

(07 Dec 2020, 7:13 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I believe the Arnison Centre is worse in that the bus link is directly in the centre, and there is essentially only one single lane out. Like it's been said before buses can get in easily enough, but getting out is nigh on impossible. There really needs to be a layout change so buses can get out, perhaps enlarge the roundabout so buses can do a U turn and go straight back out?

At least with the Team Valley the bus doesn't go directly into Retail World, it drops you off outside and can relatively easily get in and out.

Should have the 21/X20 follow the 50 route into Arnison Centre via Rotary Way with them stopping on Mercia Retail Park then coming out via Abbey Road and vice versa would be the easiest thing do.

The craic with the 309/310/311 is that even if there is more streamlining, the PVR wouldn't reduce drastically (circa 20%) unless Hadrian Park was taken out of the equation and passengers told to suck it up and change in Battle Hill.

Both options would be a PVR of 14x based on running times to afford reliability when we return to "normal" reducing the PVR by 12.5%.

Option 1:
- 311 every 15 minutes
- 309 every 30 minutes
- 310 every 30 minutes (also via Cobalt but not High Farm)

Option 2:
- 309 every 20 minutes
- 310 every 20 minutes (via Hadrian Park)

The next option would be a PVR of 12x but would leave GNE as the second choice 'mickey mouse' operator on the Coast Road in comparison to Arriva who would offer a better option all around.

Option 3:
- 309 every 30 minutes
- 310 every 30 minutes (via Cobalt and still serving High Farm)
- 311 every 30 minutes

As far as things stand at the moment, all operators and routes are in turbulent times. GNE however will come out of it at the stronger end where the Coast Road is concerned if they maintain a similar level of service. Don't forget, the bus that "gans down the motorway" as well as it's sister service will need future investment too and can't continue operating whatever is thrown on. For Arriva to comply with the clean air zone and maintain a reliable service with decent vehicles considering their position, they will inevitably need to downsize. That's not me being biased towards GNE by any means but if Arriva can offer the almost same capacity between Billy Mill and Newcastle on a 10 minute combined frequency (likely meaning the 306 being withdrawn out of Battle Hill to improve reliability), it would be a no brainer.

(07 Dec 2020, 7:13 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I believe the Arnison Centre is worse in that the bus link is directly in the centre, and there is essentially only one single lane out. Like it's been said before buses can get in easily enough, but getting out is nigh on impossible. There really needs to be a layout change so buses can get out, perhaps enlarge the roundabout so buses can do a U turn and go straight back out?

At least with the Team Valley the bus doesn't go directly into Retail World, it drops you off outside and can relatively easily get in and out. 

I think the Retail World example just smacks home the point I'm making with even more emphasis. 

Rather than do anything much about the services to Retail World, they just moved the stop away from the shops and maintained the exact same service. 

The 93/94 still get stuck in traffic, still serve the same limited footprint as they did do when they served the shops - but save a couple of mins by using the stop behind Mothercare.

People drive to Retail World because they can't or won't use the 93/94.
The operator is indirectly (or is it directly?) causing the very issues which delay the buses and leads to more cars on the road.

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(07 Dec 2020, 7:21 pm)Malarkey wrote Should have the 21/X20 follow the 50 route into Arnison Centre via Rotary Way with them stopping on Mercia Retail Park then coming out via Abbey Road and vice versa would be the easiest thing do.

If they're insistent on the 21 operating via the Arnison, I'd look at moving the 21 and have it serve Waldridge Park myself. 
It goes without saying thatbmore people from up that way would use a frequent 21 than an infrequent 50.

It would also reinstate the links lost when the 21B was cancelled. 
Win/win imo.

(07 Dec 2020, 6:57 pm)Arcticrossy92 wrote "for temporary allocation to “Cobalt & Coast” service 311, due to low passenger numbers on this service, which will allow the displacement of double-decks to be more appropriately used. "

Are we likely to see the 'Spare' Cobalt and Coast B9's "Xlined" and put to use at Consett perhaps, to complete the PVR of the services there, thus allowing the Red Kite B9's to transfer down to EYMS.

No - as the fleet news mentions, it has displaced three OmniDekkas. 

One to Riverside (replacing 6099 which will become float/reserve and cover Fab56 repaints), one to Washington (replacing 6050 serving the same purpose as 6099) and another to Washington (allowing one board on services 5/50 to be upgraded to double-deck).

(07 Dec 2020, 7:23 pm)Andreos1 wrote I think the Retail World example just smacks home the point I'm making with even more emphasis. 

Rather than do anything much about the services to Retail World, they just moved the stop away from the shops and maintained the exact same service. 

The 93/94 still get stuck in traffic, still serve the same limited footprint as they did do when they served the shops - but save a couple of mins by using the stop behind Mothercare.

People drive to Retail World because they can't or won't use the 93/94.
The operator is indirectly (or is it directly?) causing the very issues which delay the buses and leads to more cars on the road.

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I'd look at moving the 21 and have it serve Waldridge Park myself. 
It goes without saying thatbmore people from up that way would use a frequent 21 than an infrequent 50.

It would also reinstate the links lost when the 21B was cancelled. 
Win/win imo.

Very true given the 50 turns left before Waldridge Park in order to serve Embleton Road End, 

Do you think anyone from Waldridge Park would perhaps take the short journey on the 25 to Sacriston then get the X20 down to Arnison Centre?

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(07 Dec 2020, 7:28 pm)Dan wrote No - as the fleet news mentions, it has displaced three OmniDekkas. 

One to Riverside (replacing 6099 which will become float/reserve and cover Fab56 repaints), one to Washington (replacing 6050 serving the same purpose as 6099) and another to Washington (allowing one board on services 5/50 to be upgraded to double-deck).

I'd hazard a guess the Cobalt B9's displaced off of the 311 will be used on the Coaster given the poor reliability of some of the B5LH's as has been the case for a few weeks now.

(07 Dec 2020, 7:23 pm)Andreos1 wrote I think the Retail World example just smacks home the point I'm making with even more emphasis. 

Rather than do anything much about the services to Retail World, they just moved the stop away from the shops and maintained the exact same service. 

The 93/94 still get stuck in traffic, still serve the same limited footprint as they did do when they served the shops - but save a couple of mins by using the stop behind Mothercare.

People drive to Retail World because they can't or won't use the 93/94.
The operator is indirectly (or is it directly?) causing the very issues which delay the buses and leads to more cars on the road.

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If they're insistent on the 21 operating via the Arnison, I'd look at moving the 21 and have it serve Waldridge Park myself. 
It goes without saying thatbmore people from up that way would use a frequent 21 than an infrequent 50.

It would also reinstate the links lost when the 21B was cancelled. 
Win/win imo.

I personally always get the bus to Retail World, trying to get parked there is a nightmare. The only time we take the car is if we need to get something from Homebase.
It's only a 1-2 minute walk to get into Retail World from the bus stop, and I'd rather walk a little than have to sit on the bus for 10 minutes while it tries to get there.

(07 Dec 2020, 7:23 pm)Andreos1 wrote If they're insistent on the 21 operating via the Arnison, I'd look at moving the 21 and have it serve Waldridge Park myself. 
It goes without saying thatbmore people from up that way would use a frequent 21 than an infrequent 50.

It would also reinstate the links lost when the 21B was cancelled. 
Win/win imo.

Then people would kick off about the 21 not serving Chester Moor and Clifford Terrace.

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(07 Dec 2020, 7:22 pm)L469 YVK wrote The craic with the 309/310/311 is that even if there is more streamlining, the PVR wouldn't reduce drastically (circa 20%) unless Hadrian Park was taken out of the equation and passengers told to suck it up and change in Battle Hill.

Both options would be a PVR of 14x based on running times to afford reliability when we return to "normal" reducing the PVR by 12.5%.

Option 1:
- 311 every 15 minutes
- 309 every 30 minutes
- 310 every 30 minutes (also via Cobalt but not High Farm)

Option 2:
- 309 every 20 minutes
- 310 every 20 minutes (via Hadrian Park)

The next option would be a PVR of 12x but would leave GNE as the second choice 'mickey mouse' operator on the Coast Road in comparison to Arriva who would offer a better option all around.

Option 3:
- 309 every 30 minutes
- 310 every 30 minutes (via Cobalt and still serving High Farm)
- 311 every 30 minutes

As far as things stand at the moment, all operators and routes are in turbulent times. GNE however will come out of it at the stronger end where the Coast Road is concerned if they maintain a similar level of service. Don't forget, the bus that "gans down the motorway" as well as it's sister service will need future investment too and can't continue operating whatever is thrown on. For Arriva to comply with the clean air zone and maintain a reliable service with decent vehicles considering their position, they will inevitably need to downsize. That's not me being biased towards GNE by any means but if Arriva can offer the almost same capacity between Billy Mill and Newcastle on a 10 minute combined frequency (likely meaning the 306 being withdrawn out of Battle Hill to improve reliability), it would be a no brainer.

I wouldn't like to see Option 1 it'll just make the situation even worse by having more buses where they're not needed. Personally I'd try something different but not sure whether the 3rd variation would do well and have.

309 - Every 15 Minutes (If you want to save buses terminate 2 at Whitley)
310 - Every 30 Minutes (Serves High Farm)
311 - Every 30 Minutes (Current 311 (Omits High Farm) to Hadrian Park, Continues 309/310 Route to the Cobalt R'bout then diverts via Silverlink, Tyne Tunnel Trading Estate, A193 then rejoining the 310 route to Shields keeping the 15 minute service there)

Only losers really are Verne Road / Norham Road, not sure on the numbers there but it used to be only 30 mins years ago anyway but offers new links such as the Tyne Tunnel Trading Estate to Newcastle where there's loads of employment and offers more links to Silverlink for example. PVR shouldn't be too different I don't believe and it's 1 bus less on the Coast Road where they're not needed.

(07 Dec 2020, 7:37 pm)Malarkey wrote  Very true given the 50 turns left before Waldridge Park in order to serve Embleton Road End, 

Do you think anyone from Waldridge Park would perhaps take the short journey on the 25 to Sacriston then get the X20 down to Arnison Centre? 

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I'd hazard a guess the Cobalt B9's displaced off of the 311 will be used on the Coaster given the poor reliability of some of the B5LH's as has been the case for a few weeks now.

I certainly wouldn't fancy getting two buses to and from the shops and hanging around Sacriston or Witton Gilbert waiting for a connection. 

(07 Dec 2020, 8:14 pm)big mac wrote Then people would kick off about the 21 not serving Chester Moor and Clifford Terrace.

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It would be interesting to see how many on Clifford Terrace or Chester Moor would be affected.
The X21 could easily be an all stops through Chester and I can't see it making that much difference in the grand scheme of things, particularly when you consider the stopping arrangements of some of the other expresses. 
Not saying it's ideal and I'm not really a fan of expresses being stopping services (contradiction in terms of there was one), but it would certainly make up for any diversion of the 21. 

To be honest, I would imagine the residents of Chester Moor would be happy with the 21 being diverted closer to the majority of the houses there.

(07 Dec 2020, 8:51 pm)Storx wrote I wouldn't like to see Option 1 it'll just make the situation even worse by having more buses where they're not needed. Personally I'd try something different but not sure whether the 3rd variation would do well and have.

309 - Every 15 Minutes (If you want to save buses terminate 2 at Whitley)
310 - Every 30 Minutes (Serves High Farm)
311 - Every 30 Minutes (Current 311 (Omits High Farm) to Hadrian Park, Continues 309/310 Route to the Cobalt R'bout then diverts via Silverlink, Tyne Tunnel Trading Estate, A193 then rejoining the 310 route to Shields keeping the 15 minute service there)

Only losers really are Verne Road / Norham Road, not sure on the numbers there but it used to be only 30 mins years ago anyway but offers new links such as the Tyne Tunnel Trading Estate to Newcastle where there's loads of employment and offers more links to Silverlink for example. PVR shouldn't be too different I don't believe and it's 1 bus less on the Coast Road where they're not needed.

Good idea, but that would most likely see the PVR increasing back to 17 vehicles.

(07 Dec 2020, 9:58 pm)Andreos1 wrote It would be interesting to see how many on Clifford Terrace or Chester Moor would be affected.
The X21 could easily be an all stops through Chester and I can't see it making that much difference in the grand scheme of things, particularly when you consider the stopping arrangements of some of the other expresses. 
Not saying it's ideal and I'm not really a fan of expresses being stopping services (contradiction in terms of there was one), but it would certainly make up for any diversion of the 21. 

To be honest, I would imagine the residents of Chester Moor would be happy with the 21 being diverted closer to the majority of the houses there.

X21 was revised to serve all stops between West Auckland and Chester-le-Street, Front Street when the frequencies on the Durham to Chester stretch on the 21/X21 were revised around the start of the year (X21 since reverted to half hourly for the whole route)

(07 Dec 2020, 10:33 pm)Jimmi wrote X21 was revised to serve all stops between West Auckland and Chester-le-Street, Front Street when the frequencies on the Durham to Chester stretch on the 21/X21 were revised around the start of the year (X21 since reverted to half hourly for the whole route)

Sorted then. 
Send the 21 via Waldridge Park, continue the X21 as is. Have the 50 fill any gaps left between Clifford Terrace and the Arnison Centre. 

Opens up the 21 to more residential areas (therefore increasing its footprint and scope to attract passengers on a frequent service) and hopefully it helps take away some of the traffic from the Arnison Centre.

(07 Dec 2020, 10:28 pm)L469 YVK wrote Good idea, but that would most likely see the PVR increasing back to 17 vehicles.

Not too sure on the numbers, but tbh just need to look at ways to get passengers on them before touching the Coast Road. These are pie in sky ideas but one idea could be messing around with the 1 so have something like:

1A: Metro Centre to Howdon (Current 1A to Wallsend then 41 route after that) - Every 30 Mins
1B: Lobley Hill to North Shields (Current 1B curtailed at North Shields) - Every Hour
1C: Team Valley to North Shields (Team Valley Retail World to the top then same as 1B to North Shields) - Every Hour (30 Mins at Peak)

309 - Every 20 Minutes
310 - Every 20 Minutes extended to Whitley Bay via the 1A/1B route giving new useful connections not ones that shadow the Metro.

Q3 - Extended to Battle Hill via 41 route - Every 15 Minutes (still a bus to Newcastle even known it's v. slow but new links nevertheless)

41 / 91 / 311 scrapped

Has a few benefits such as an all day service to Team Valley which serves the East of Newcastle without a change, the 1 is shorter so the impacts on delays won't affect the route as much plus it's no longer every 20 / 40 minutes which is useless. Then the biggest one is they could make a massive campaign about the 309/310 being the buses to the seaside as they serve the length from Blyth to Tynemouth which could be popular in the summer so extra revenue there. Okay there's a small loss to the 1 between Howden and Shields and Hadrian Park don't have the 311 anymore but they're the only negatives really. Your also restoring the old 325/326 (think that was the number) mostly aswell.

(07 Dec 2020, 12:22 am)streetdeckfan wrote That assumes it even goes to Sainsburys, it seems like there's constant tweets going out saying Arnison is too busy and to catch your bus from LIDL!

That's no surprise - the bloody macdonalds traffic often causes gridlock.

Another thing with the 21 and the Arnison Centre is that some journeys, mostly the early morning and late evening journeys, omit it and just run straight through Pity Me.

I know that the most of the shops will be closed at this time but there may be people starting or ending shifts that could use the service. Why not just standardise it and have them all go there? The x20 goes to the Arnison all the time, for example.

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(08 Dec 2020, 5:39 pm)big mac wrote Another thing with the 21 and the Arnison Centre is that some journeys, mostly the early morning and late evening journeys, omit it and just run straight through Pity Me. 

I know that the most of the shops will be closed at this time but there may be people starting or ending shifts that could use the service. Why not just standardise it and have them all go there?  The x20 goes to the Arnison all the time, for example.

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They can do the 21 in 55 minutes when the roads are quiet so it's less buses on the road basically. Before 8pm because of traffic it takes just over an hour so they give it 1 hour 15 mins (5 buses for the Durham Runs) so instead of sitting around doing nothing for 10 minutes they spend the time going through Arnison instead.

I hope the X30 extension to Consett is kept (or replaced by the X31). I'm starting a new job in January and the X30 extension is important to my commute.

I would also like an earlier X30 Consett to Newcastle journey, half an hour to that currently.

Let's be honest, the X30 extension hasn't had a chance to prove itself with the COVID-19 epidemic.

(24 Nov 2020, 9:25 pm)L469 YVK wrote Well, it appears that's not the case anymore and the StreetDecks will remain where they are.

But, not taking into account spares, the following could be achieved with what Consett have depending on future changes (not exactly January):

X45/X46/X47
- 8x new StreetDecks
- 3x 67 reg StreetDecks
- 3x 2019 ADL E400MMC

X30/X70/X71
- 8x new ADL E400MMC (X30 no longer extended to Consett)

X31 (incl X32)
- 3x new ADL E400MMC - not extended to Consett in lieu of X30 and driver changes at Stanley***

*** With the 78 swapped to Hownsgill, could the X31 not go the other way to Chester Le Street? Driving distance from Stanley to Chester Le Street is only 6.1 miles via shortest route. Driving distance from Stanley to Hownsgill is 8.2 miles via shortest route. Driving hours would be either 2x trips on peak (3 hours) or 3x off peak (4.5 hours). Time in the van would be approx 15 mins each way.

Plus, if the full Sunday X21 still operates going forward, then the 3x E400MMCs could then be utilised on the Sunday X21 thus qualifying for BSOG (B5TL doesn't qualify) whilst also reducing fuel costs.

(11 Dec 2020, 8:37 pm)DH9 wrote I hope the X30 extension to Consett is kept (or replaced by the X31).  I'm starting a new job in January and the X30 extension is important to my commute.

I would also like an earlier X30 Consett to Newcastle journey, half an hour to that currently.

Let's be honest, the X30 extension hasn't had a chance to prove itself with the COVID-19 epidemic.

Well thankfully there doesn't seem to be any changes to the X30 & X31 according to VOSA although the interworking patterns might change with the X30/X70/X71.

I still stand by my word tough about surplus B9TL from the Cobalts & CityRider/Fab56 getting refurbished and sent to Consett. Most logically, the X31 would be the best fit for the following reasons:

- Mon-Sat daytime only service
- E400MMC on X45/X46/X47 (6338-40) would make sense for fuel costs and allocation flexibility where BSOG & antisocial times (evenings etc) are concerned.
- All of the Consett & Stanley XLines services with the exception of East Stanley covered by bike racks. Although option wouldn't be there from Gateshead to Stanley.

Plus 6338-40 aren't being retrofitted with bike racks. PVR of X30/X70/X71 will be 9x meaning 2x spare at Consett (covering bike guarantee) plus 1x B9TL for other routes. If the X31 got extended in lieu of the X30 in the future, that would mean 4x B9TLs being used so 3x MMCs spare with bike racks.

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(11 Dec 2020, 10:51 pm)L469 YVK wrote Well thankfully there doesn't seem to be any changes to the X30 & X31 according to VOSA although the interworking patterns might change with the X30/X70/X71.

I still stand by my word though about surplus B9TL from the Cobalts & CityRider/Fab56 getting refurbished (if not to XLines standard) and sent to Consett. Most logically, the X31 would be the best fit for the following reasons:

- Mon-Sat daytime only service
- E400MMC on X45/X46/X47 (6338-40) would make sense for fuel costs and allocation flexibility where BSOG & antisocial times (evenings etc) are concerned.
- All of the Consett & Stanley XLines services with the exception of East Stanley covered by bike racks. Although option wouldn't be there from Gateshead to Stanley.

Plus 6338-40 aren't being retrofitted with bike racks. PVR of X30/X70/X71 will be 9x meaning 2x spare at Consett (covering bike guarantee) plus 1x B9TL for other routes. If the X31 got extended in lieu of the X30 in the future, that would mean 4x B9TLs being used so 3x MMCs spare with bike racks.