Just my opinion, but I think if we're arguing over the route number, or what will happen if a couple of passengers want to board the return journey at Middlesbrough if the X9 or X10 is missing, we're searching a bit too hard to look for negatives.

It takes nothing away from the X9/X10 services, and is only a once a day (initially weekends only) special service to the coast, meant for those wanting to go to Whitby/Scarbro.

Prices are very reasonable. Timings look good, plenty of time allowed in either town or some time in both. But most of all, GNE are actually willing to try something new, something that I think all bus companies should be more willing to do.

Good luck to them. It might even get Arriva to consider something different themselves, to have the X93/X94 every 20 mins in peak summer terminating at Scarborough and nothing extending a bit further to Cayton Bay, Filey or Brid is missing a trick, and would be easy to try even a once a day service there themselves.

(03 Apr 2021, 8:32 pm)Storx wrote See I was thinking that but it shouldn't be an issue as all the Newcastle / A19 passengers will be on already by that point. As long as they're all going to Scarborough and Whitby then it's just extra bums on seats wanting a nicer vehicle and to save 30 minutes EW to Scarborough. If there is any capacity problems then it's just going to be those getting on at Middlesbrough and Ormseby and as you said they've got the X93.

If there's only 2 passengers travelling from Newcastle to Billingham you might aswell try and fill the rest of the seats with punters paying a tenner to save an hour from Middlesbrough than have 2 passengers to Scarborough whereas if the bus is full from Newcastle to Billingham, the extras will have to get the X93 instead. It's a no lose for GNE imo.

That problem only happens if it's full of Newcastle passengers to stops to Boro or before.

And here we have it. A commercial operation, designed to make money, designed to open up new connections - not taking advantage of commercial opportunities.
It makes no sense at all to refuse walk up fares.

Then we see the patter about it being a 'different service', despite all the similarities to the current network.
It's either one or the other. Not something in-between, which has pretensions of grandeur but is ultimately something caught in-between.

(04 Apr 2021, 10:08 am)Andreos1 wrote And here we have it. A commercial operation, designed to make money, designed to open up new connections - not taking advantage of commercial opportunities.
It makes no sense at all to refuse walk up fares.

Then we see the patter about it being a 'different service', despite all the similarities to the current network.
It's either one or the other. Not something in-between, which has pretensions of grandeur but is ultimately something caught in-between.

Exactly agreed. Like personally it's a piss easy problem to fix.

Just have the service pick up only on the journey down between Newcastle and Middlesbrough. Work out how many tickets you've sold out let's say it's 5 people and the bus capacity is 30 (made up). Then the bus has a capacity of 25 for the rest of the journey. Same rules apply for heading up North but using the total day tickets sold outright from Newcastle to Scarborough. So if there's 18 tickets sold. Then there's 12 seats for people wanting a single to Middlesbrough / Newcastle.

(04 Apr 2021, 10:08 am)Andreos1 wrote And here we have it. A commercial operation, designed to make money, designed to open up new connections - not taking advantage of commercial opportunities.
It makes no sense at all to refuse walk up fares.

Has anyone confirmed Go North East are refusing walk up fares and 'not taking advantage of commercial opportunities' from latter points in the route, or is that just speculation at this stage?

I'd be more inclined to use this service if an open-topper was used on days where the forecast is sunny.

However I don't think I'd be leading punters in a sing-a-long if it were to be broadcast on YouTube. I don't mind performing for free for a private audience, as many ladies can attest, but I'd be wanting royalties for a televised show.

I have witnessed some horrible antics on open-toppers in my time. For example, a few years back I witnessed a young lad getting the mick taken out of him at a rally in Newcastle. I wonder whatever happened to him, I hope he's alright...

(04 Apr 2021, 11:50 am)Dan wrote Has anyone confirmed Go North East are refusing walk up fares and 'not taking advantage of commercial opportunities' from latter points in the route, or is that just speculation at this stage?

I'll have to go back and check previous posts. Pretty sure it was confirmed. Just need to check whether or not they've been retrospectively edited.

Was Stagecoach’s X55 subjected to this hair splitting on its special fares and its integration into overlapping routes?

(04 Apr 2021, 10:25 pm)James101 wrote Was Stagecoach’s X55 subjected to this hair splitting on its special fares and its integration into overlapping routes?

I think it was. Unsurprisingly, that failed too.

This is possibly the most anal thread I’ve ever seen on these here forums and I know I’m one to talk.

Commercial business starts commercial route with commercial risk and sets own commercial criteria.

You’d think they’d just converted the 21 to Solos or that dozens of people will be forever trapped in (insert awful north east town or city here) because a once a day, yes once a day, bus won’t pick them up and they might have to use one of the other regular services instead.

Btw, I passed the 28 today and it was operated by a Coast and Country bus, I was in Wrekenton, neither near the coast or country. I don’t know how I’ll get past this sheer mockery. Dan....I demand resignations ?

(04 Apr 2021, 11:30 pm)Ambassador wrote This is possibly the most anal thread I’ve ever seen on these here forums and I know I’m one to talk.

Commercial business starts commercial route with commercial risk and sets own commercial criteria.

You’d think they’d just converted the 21 to Solos or that dozens of people will be forever trapped in (insert awful north east town or city here) because a once a day, yes once a day, bus won’t pick them up and they might have to use one of the other regular services instead.

Btw, I passed the 28 today and it was operated by a Coast and Country bus, I was in Wrekenton, neither near the coast or country. I don’t know how I’ll get past this sheer mockery. Dan....I demand resignations ?

Is anal the right word?
For years, members of this forum (and elsewhere) have pushed for new links, for new routes and for operators to do something beyond the norm.

Eventually, the X11 comes along and it appears nothing more than a wet cabbage leaf and a standard 'we tried, you didn't use it' ploy.
You know the score when organisations launch new products or a new range.
You know Greggs wouldn't go half arsed in to an item which was only on offer for a small proportion of the day and you know they would look at grabbing every opportunity they could to make the launch and the product a commercial success. The sort of success that could launch similar products which please customers and make the business money. Rather than shrinking back to the same old.
If they did go back to the same old, we would be stuck with products that were selling in 1986. Not 2021.
As much as I loved Russian cake and a jap cake, my tastes and habits have evolved, just like most people's travel habits have

(04 Apr 2021, 11:30 pm)Ambassador wrote Btw, I passed the 28 today and it was operated by a Coast and Country bus, I was in Wrekenton, neither near the coast or country. I don’t know how I’ll get past this sheer mockery. Dan....I demand resignations ?

The 28/28B are allocated C&C streetlites on Sundays and Bank Holidays, have been a while now.

(04 Apr 2021, 11:38 pm)Andreos1 wrote Is anal the right word?
For years, members of this forum (and elsewhere) have pushed for new links, for new routes and for operators to do something beyond the norm.

Eventually, the X11 comes along and it appears nothing more than a wet cabbage leaf and a standard 'we tried, you didn't use it' ploy.
You know the score when organisations launch new products or a new range.
You know Greggs wouldn't go half arsed in to an item which was only on offer for a small proportion of the day and you know they would look at grabbing every opportunity they could to make the launch and the product a commercial success. The sort of success that could launch similar products which please customers and make the business money. Rather than shrinking back to the same old.
If they did go back to the same old, we would be stuck with products that were selling in 1986. Not 2021.
As much as I loved Russian cake and a jap cake, my tastes and habits have evolved, just like most people's travel habits have

Yes, I think anal is exactly the right word.

The purpose of this service has been made clear - a 'dip the toe' exercise to make use of the 'staycation' market, which is expected to be a bigger market this year than previous due to current travel restrictions - but there still seems to be a suggestion that this could, or ought, to have been something so much bigger.

I think the majority of us have concluded that the service in its current form will do just that, and the known prices of tickets offers good value for money. It might be successful, it might not be. We'll find out in twelve months time as to whether it makes a comeback (in its present guise, or, if it's done extremely well, possibly something more). As has been discussed already, there is a huge potential along this corridor, to integrate the service with the X9/X10 to provide a 20-minute frequency headway from Newcastle to Middlesbrough, exploit the lack of investment from Arriva on the X93, and make connections with East Yorkshire at the other end of the route, but accepting Explorer or X9/X10 tickets to allow local travel, when the established services are timed just 10-minutes ahead of the X11, will not be the thing that makes/breaks this service. The financial contribution from those tickets will be minimal.

Regards Stagecoach X55. Go North East has been very clear about why it is introducing the X11 service, and it makes sense given the current travel restrictions. I'm not sure there was ever really solid ground or rationale behind Stagecoach introducing the X55 service, and I'm not sure it was ever really properly marketed or promoted. Go North East's first Facebook post about the return of existing services and addition of new services (including the X11) has had 118 reactions, 39 comments and 59 shares. Seems like a fair amount of engagement, given the post was not sponsored.

This service isn't about completely revolutionising the North East bus scene. To persistently argue that it ought to have been, disregarding every counter-argument, does seem quite anal.

(05 Apr 2021, 6:51 am)Dan wrote  exploit the lack of investment from Arriva on the X93

And no doubt exploit the lack investment for it's Northumberland counterparts too. As much as 7529-33 & 7553-56 and whatever is thrown on the X14 have served their purpose, now is the time to invest.

If the above services keep breaking down and missing journeys, passengers will no doubt look at an alternative day out too once word gets around.

I think some people are twisting for the sake of twisting or to try and get a rise out of Dan which to be fair he's doing a good job in not doing so. But this is getting boring now, it's like some person on another forum twisting on about X-Lines because it replaced the Red Kites brand.

(05 Apr 2021, 7:23 am)Rapidsnap wrote I think some people are twisting for the sake of twisting or to try and get a rise out of Dan which to be fair he's doing a good job in not doing so. But this is getting boring now, it's like some person on another forum twisting on about X-Lines because it replaced the Red Kites brand.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and this forum is intended for debate and discussion!

(05 Apr 2021, 7:23 am)Rapidsnap wrote I think some people are twisting for the sake of twisting or to try and get a rise out of Dan which to be fair he's doing a good job in not doing so. But this is getting boring now, it's like some person on another forum twisting on about X-Lines because it replaced the Red Kites brand.

The Red Kites brand was horrific and needed to go, or at least the eyes of nightmares on the front did!
Whether or not they should have gone to X-lines is certainly up for debate!

Regardless of everything the Facebook stats Dan has quoted is impressive!

I don't see why so many people are getting so annoyed over it. Its just a server. Don't like it don't use it. It's a service which can get you to Scarborough from Newcastle. Which I think has been needed for a while. At least its one bus

(05 Apr 2021, 9:16 am)MichealAaron wrote I don't see why so many people are getting so annoyed over it. Its just a server. Don't like it don't use it. It's a service which can get you to Scarborough from Newcastle. Which I think has been needed for a while. At least its one bus

I have no issue with the service itself, I have no issue with the pricing.

The only issue I have with it is the same issue I have with the X9/X10.
If it's going to be treated as it's own separate thing then brand it separately.

As Dan has said, in normal times it probably wouldn't have ended up under the Xlines brand, so hopefully once things go back to normal, and if it goes well, it'll get something of it's own!

Sent from my CPH1931 using Tapatalk

(05 Apr 2021, 6:51 am)Dan wrote Yes, I think anal is exactly the right word.

The purpose of this service has been made clear - a 'dip the toe' exercise to make use of the 'staycation' market, which is expected to be a bigger market this year than previous due to current travel restrictions - but there still seems to be a suggestion that this could, or ought, to have been something so much bigger.

I think the majority of us have concluded that the service in its current form will do just that, and the known prices of tickets offers good value for money. It might be successful, it might not be. We'll find out in twelve months time as to whether it makes a comeback (in its present guise, or, if it's done extremely well, possibly something more). As has been discussed already, there is a huge potential along this corridor, to integrate the service with the X9/X10 to provide a 20-minute frequency headway from Newcastle to Middlesbrough, exploit the lack of investment from Arriva on the X93, and make connections with East Yorkshire at the other end of the route, but accepting Explorer or X9/X10 tickets to allow local travel, when the established services are timed just 10-minutes ahead of the X11, will not be the thing that makes/breaks this service. The financial contribution from those tickets will be minimal.

Regards Stagecoach X55. Go North East has been very clear about why it is introducing the X11 service, and it makes sense given the current travel restrictions. I'm not sure there was ever really solid ground or rationale behind Stagecoach introducing the X55 service, and I'm not sure it was ever really properly marketed or promoted. Go North East's first Facebook post about the return of existing services and addition of new services (including the X11) has had 118 reactions, 39 comments and 59 shares. Seems like a fair amount of engagement, given the post was not sponsored.

This service isn't about completely revolutionising the North East bus scene. To persistently argue that it ought to have been, disregarding every counter-argument, does seem quite anal. 

Who has said those things Dan?

(05 Apr 2021, 11:44 am)Andreos1 wrote Who has said those things Dan?

It’s certainly what you’ve suggested in all your posts, by otherwise pointing out all the alleged ‘flaws’ in the service. Maybe I’ve interpreted your posts incorrectly?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Will this service be operated by the Toon Tour bus which has the onboard swimming pool? That would make the £15 return fare value for money. As for the anal, I think that should be an optional extra rather than be included in the price of the ticket.

(05 Apr 2021, 11:55 am)Dan wrote It’s certainly what you’ve suggested in all your posts, by otherwise pointing out all the alleged ‘flaws’ in the service.  Maybe I’ve interpreted your posts incorrectly?  


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Quite possibly Dan.
I've certainly never said or implied those things at all.

For clarity.
I feel there needs to be further differences between the X1/9/10/11, if tickets aren't valid for those who would use the 4, X1/9/10 ordinarily, but are hoping to utilise the X11. Particularly as there is a vehicle which is allocated to the X9/10/11, it shares a common brand, serves a number of common towns and has a relatively small driving rota. 

I feel that the opportunity to accept passengers intending for the 4, X1/9/10, should be taken. Particularly by an organisation who are set up to make money.
I'd hope the X11 was a success and was the start of network improvements and opening up new travel opportunities, but feel that with one arm behind its back, it will struggle. Particularly on those wet and windy days you have mentioned.

To supplement its revenue seems to be an obvious thing. Yet, this doesn't appear to be an option.
I don't think the numbers for those travelling locally, would make too much difference to those travelling the entire journey or result in people being left behind. 

I'd have hoped there were ticketing options for those wanting to spend more than a few hours in Whitby or Scarborough, maybe a night or two.

I do think the fare is reasonable for those travelling from Tyneside to Whitby or Scarborough, but that market is going to be small for a number of reasons. When you look at other factors, such as weather (like you have mentioned) - you can see how supplementing the revenue with additional passengers, not making the end to end journey, makes so much sense. 

Enthusiasts may understand the difference between the X11 and other routes, but ordinary passengers may not. 
Travelling by public transport needs to be attractive and it goes without saying that operators need to remove barriers. Operators or enthusiasts may or may not see or appreciate those barriers. Either way, the operators need to develop an understanding of the barriers that may exist and do something about removing them. However insignificant, small or subtle they may appear from 'inside'. 

I've carried out different analysis on the X11 project and there are obvious flaws that appear to have been overlooked or ignored by the commercial team. A shame as I do think there is a lot more potential with it. More than the 'use it or lose it', 'its clearly a different service' mentality which will inevitably hold back that potential.
If we don't see the return of the X11 next year, I'd genuinely hope there was some sort of detailed look in to why it failed. There will be external factors without a doubt. But by looking (all be it, reactively) at the internal factors, so much can and should be learned.

(05 Apr 2021, 2:59 pm)Andreos1 wrote Quite possibly Dan.
I've certainly never said or implied those things at all.

For clarity.
I feel there needs to be further differences between the X1/9/10/11, if tickets aren't valid for those who would use the 4, X1/9/10 ordinarily, but are hoping to utilise the X11. Particularly as there is a vehicle which is allocated to the X9/10/11, it shares a common brand, serves a number of common towns and has a relatively small driving rota. 

I feel that the opportunity to accept passengers intending for the 4, X1/9/10, should be taken. Particularly by an organisation who are set up to make money.
I'd hope the X11 was a success and was the start of network improvements and opening up new travel opportunities, but feel that with one arm behind its back, it will struggle. Particularly on those wet and windy days you have mentioned.

To supplement its revenue seems to be an obvious thing. Yet, this doesn't appear to be an option.
I don't think the numbers for those travelling locally, would make too much difference to those travelling the entire journey or result in people being left behind. 

I'd have hoped there were ticketing options for those wanting to spend more than a few hours in Whitby or Scarborough, maybe a night or two.

I do think the fare is reasonable for those travelling from Tyneside to Whitby or Scarborough, but that market is going to be small for a number of reasons. When you look at other factors, such as weather (like you have mentioned) - you can see how supplementing the revenue with additional passengers, not making the end to end journey, makes so much sense. 

Enthusiasts may understand the difference between the X11 and other routes, but ordinary passengers may not. 
Travelling by public transport needs to be attractive and it goes without saying that operators need to remove barriers. Operators or enthusiasts may or may not see or appreciate those barriers. Either way, the operators need to develop an understanding of the barriers that may exist and do something about removing them. However insignificant, small or subtle they may appear from 'inside'. 

I've carried out different analysis on the X11 project and there are obvious flaws that appear to have been overlooked or ignored by the commercial team. A shame as I do think there is a lot more potential with it. More than the 'use it or lose it', 'its clearly a different service' mentality which will inevitably hold back that potential.
If we don't see the return of the X11 next year, I'd genuinely hope there was some sort of detailed look in to why it failed. There will be external factors without a doubt. But by looking (all be it, reactively) at the internal factors, so much can and should be learned.

I dont understand the disapproval of the ticketing. It's a once per day trip, I'm sure the people at Middlesbrough and Washington can wait the extra 10mins for 4/X9/X10 at that time of night.
I dont recall the same backlash when normal buzzfare tickets were no longer accepted on the X9/X10. I'd imagine there would of been a lot more passengers affected wanting to travel between Heworth and Newcastle, than they would for a once a day service.

(05 Apr 2021, 2:59 pm)Andreos1 wrote Quite possibly Dan.
I've certainly never said or implied those things at all.

For clarity.
I feel there needs to be further differences between the X1/9/10/11, if tickets aren't valid for those who would use the 4, X1/9/10 ordinarily, but are hoping to utilise the X11. Particularly as there is a vehicle which is allocated to the X9/10/11, it shares a common brand, serves a number of common towns and has a relatively small driving rota. 

I feel that the opportunity to accept passengers intending for the 4, X1/9/10, should be taken. Particularly by an organisation who are set up to make money.
I'd hope the X11 was a success and was the start of network improvements and opening up new travel opportunities, but feel that with one arm behind its back, it will struggle. Particularly on those wet and windy days you have mentioned.

To supplement its revenue seems to be an obvious thing. Yet, this doesn't appear to be an option.
I don't think the numbers for those travelling locally, would make too much difference to those travelling the entire journey or result in people being left behind. 

I'd have hoped there were ticketing options for those wanting to spend more than a few hours in Whitby or Scarborough, maybe a night or two.

I do think the fare is reasonable for those travelling from Tyneside to Whitby or Scarborough, but that market is going to be small for a number of reasons. When you look at other factors, such as weather (like you have mentioned) - you can see how supplementing the revenue with additional passengers, not making the end to end journey, makes so much sense. 

Enthusiasts may understand the difference between the X11 and other routes, but ordinary passengers may not. 
Travelling by public transport needs to be attractive and it goes without saying that operators need to remove barriers. Operators or enthusiasts may or may not see or appreciate those barriers. Either way, the operators need to develop an understanding of the barriers that may exist and do something about removing them. However insignificant, small or subtle they may appear from 'inside'. 

I've carried out different analysis on the X11 project and there are obvious flaws that appear to have been overlooked or ignored by the commercial team. A shame as I do think there is a lot more potential with it. More than the 'use it or lose it', 'its clearly a different service' mentality which will inevitably hold back that potential.
If we don't see the return of the X11 next year, I'd genuinely hope there was some sort of detailed look in to why it failed. There will be external factors without a doubt. But by looking (all be it, reactively) at the internal factors, so much can and should be learned.

Hurrah! I'm glad you've finally acknowledged the point that has been continuously made regarding passenger loadings and the impact that the acceptance of standard 'local bus' tickets could have, even if you disagree.

I have already acknowledged the point on the vehicle branding, and the reasons for this. In normal circumstances, this service would have been allocated a coach, and been a part of the 'Northern Coaching' unit. This would be a good use for a coach which is otherwise confined to scholars duties during the week, and therefore naturally available on a weekend and during school holidays (unlike 6377, which would have been otherwise been the spare bus for services X9/X10 on Saturdays and during school holidays). Unfortunately we live in a world of social distancing at the moment, and, to ensure that there is sufficient capacity available to allow the service to cover its costs, a double-deck bus must be allocated. That double-deck bus has to be a newer bus, which has proven reliability. The 6-cylinder StreetDeck has proven itself as being more than capable on services X9/X10. Unfortunately Go North East can't justify painting a bus for an experimental seasonal service like this, and even if it was, you'd still have the same issue with it being sighted on services X9/X10 during the week, as it would still be intended to be the spare bus for those services during the week. All that said, there are differences between the X9/X10 and X11, with the latter serving different stops in Newcastle, Gateshead and Heworth. The destination displays will not reference Middlesbrough on the southbound journey to avoid confusion. What else would you do, if this was Andreos1's bus company, to differentiate the two (noting that the vehicle allocation is more or less set in stone this year, for the aforementioned reasons)?

Clearly you're a lone voice in that opinion with everyone else having echoed my comments regarding 'local travel' on the X11 service, but I can't help but feel your argument is flawed. In one breath you state that you 'don't think the numbers for those travelling locally would make too much difference' as they're so small in number, yet the main basis for your argument is that those passengers would supplement the revenue on the service. If, by your own admission, the numbers travelling locally would be so small, and wouldn't make a difference to the available capacity on-board, how on earth could it possibly make a notable difference to the sustainability of that route?

You make a good point regarding overnight stays in Whitby and Scarborough - particularly in Scarborough where there are holiday parks - and I would be surprised if this point had been 'overlooked' or 'ignored' by Go North East's commercial team. This would add a layer of risk, as it would become another unknown as to how many passengers would return from Scarborough. If, during the school holidays, families decide to head to Scarborough on a Friday for the weekend in a holiday park, and on the Sunday morning the bus is already full for the main target audience (the day-tripper market), how do those families on Sunday evening get back home? In a world of social distancing and reduced capacity on board buses, standees are sadly not permitted.

I can only echo the previous comment of this thread and the counter-argument being incredibly anal, over what is one return journey per day on a new service introduced to take advantage of the 'staycation' market, expected to be higher this year than previous due to the current travel restrictions. In my opinion your argument would have so much more substance if this service was something of a far greater frequency, but that's not the case.

(05 Apr 2021, 4:52 pm)Dan wrote Hurrah! I'm glad you've finally acknowledged the point that has been continuously made regarding passenger loadings and the impact that the acceptance of standard 'local bus' tickets could have, even if you disagree.

I have already acknowledged the point on the vehicle branding, and the reasons for this. In normal circumstances, this service would have been allocated a coach, and been a part of the 'Northern Coaching' unit. This would be a good use for a coach which is otherwise confined to scholars duties during the week, and therefore naturally available on a weekend and during school holidays (unlike 6377, which would have been otherwise been the spare bus for services X9/X10 on Saturdays and during school holidays). Unfortunately we live in a world of social distancing at the moment, and, to ensure that there is sufficient capacity available to allow the service to cover its costs, a double-deck bus must be allocated. That double-deck bus has to be a newer bus, which has proven reliability. The 6-cylinder StreetDeck has proven itself as being more than capable on services X9/X10. Unfortunately Go North East can't justify painting a bus for an experimental seasonal service like this, and even if it was, you'd still have the same issue with it being sighted on services X9/X10 during the week, as it would still be intended to be the spare bus for those services during the week. All that said, there are differences between the X9/X10 and X11, with the latter serving different stops in Newcastle, Gateshead and Heworth. The destination displays will not reference Middlesbrough on the southbound journey to avoid confusion. What else would you do, if this was Andreos1's bus company, to differentiate the two (noting that the vehicle allocation is more or less set in stone this year, for the aforementioned reasons)?

Clearly you're a lone voice in that opinion with everyone else having echoed my comments regarding 'local travel' on the X11 service, but I can't help but feel your argument is flawed. In one breath you state that you 'don't think the numbers for those travelling locally would make too much difference' as they're so small in number, yet the main basis for your argument is that those passengers would supplement the revenue on the service. If, by your own admission, the numbers travelling locally would be so small, and wouldn't make a difference to the available capacity on-board, how on earth could it possibly make a notable difference to the sustainability of that route?

You make a good point regarding overnight stays in Whitby and Scarborough - particularly in Scarborough where there are holiday parks - and I would be surprised if this point had been 'overlooked' or 'ignored' by Go North East's commercial team. This would add a layer of risk, as it would become another unknown as to how many passengers would return from Scarborough. If, during the school holidays, families decide to head to Scarborough on a Friday for the weekend in a holiday park, and on the Sunday morning the bus is already full for the main target audience (the day-tripper market), how do those families on Sunday evening get back home? In a world of social distancing and reduced capacity on board buses, standees are sadly not permitted.

I can only echo the previous comment of this thread and the counter-argument being incredibly anal, over what is one return journey per day on a new service introduced to take advantage of the 'staycation' market, expected to be higher this year than previous due to the current travel restrictions. In my opinion your argument would have so much more substance if this service was something of a far greater frequency, but that's not the case.

Well said Dan.
Go North East alone seem to be looking to take advantage of the staycation market, and trying new routes.
It's clear that with potentially variable numbers of passengers travelling (sunny day, wet day, cold day, school day, school holidays) a restricted range of tickets needs to be available so that, hopefully, on average Go North East will make a profit. Other seasonal and special services don't accept ENCTS passes and Explorer, and haven't done for years. The main market is clearly passengers from Tyneside & Washington. 

I haven't yet seen any new services proposed by Arriva or Stagecoach, or any other north east operator, to take advantage of the unique holiday patterns this year.

(05 Apr 2021, 6:09 am)GNE6312 wrote The 28/28B are allocated C&C streetlites on Sundays and Bank Holidays, have been a while now.

I know, I was being slightly sarcastic 

(05 Apr 2021, 6:34 pm)busmanT wrote The main market is clearly passengers from Tyneside & Washington. 

You're right, I can't imagine a family of 4 waiting at the Peterlee A19 slip road or Wolviston Road where The Swan is in Billingham only to see a 'bus full' destination blind next to the X11.  

As someone who lives in Old Billingham I wouldn't chance going all the way to Wolviston for the once a day special (I'm not saying this a flaw, I'm sure GNE know how frequent buses are between Middlesbrough and Billingham for connections to the X93/X4 anyway). 

If anything, it would be nice if GNE did advertise their routes for us Teessiders to the seaside up north. Advertise a quick hop at Heworth for the 27 to South Shields or Change at Peterlee for Seaham etc using the new coaches on X9/X10.

To be fair to GNE, the X11 is a very simple and straight forward dip in the toe exercise. Yes some of the strategy behind it might not be perfectly in line (pricing, combination with the X9/X10 etc) but it does the job what it's set out to do and the strategy is aligned with that. The X11 is not a commuter or standard stage carriage service. It's simply aimed at people after a jolly out to Whitby / Scarborough for the day.

Hopefully, it's a roaring success and GNE can then build on it. They've actually got a decent vehicle allocated compared to what Arriva had on the X60 (not discrediting the performance of the legendary Palatine II though). Might even become a more permanent fixture for all we know!

(06 Apr 2021, 8:35 am)L469 YVK wrote To be fair to GNE, the X11 is a very simple and straight forward dip in the toe exercise. Yes some of the strategy behind it might not be perfectly in line (pricing, combination with the X9/X10 etc) but it does the job what it's set out to do and the strategy is aligned with that. The X11 is not a commuter or standard stage carriage service. It's simply aimed at people after a jolly out to Whitby / Scarborough for the day.

Hopefully, it's a roaring success and GNE can then build on it. They've actually got a decent vehicle allocated compared to what Arriva had on the X60 (not discrediting the performance of the legendary Palatine II though). Might even become a more permanent fixture for all we know!

Would be nice if they could be bothered to try new services from Hartlepool to places although anything past Peterlee they don’t care about.  Let’s be honest the X9/X10 is just a service to get people to Newcastle but other than that they don’t care. It’s not exactly Go North East when they can’t be bothered with a good part of it.  The X21 only got extended in Bishop to serve them the bother of doing regular local services there.  Darlington and Hartlepool don’t seem to exist to them. They could have tried services from them places but no just do more services from Newcastle instead.  A similar X11 service could have been done from Hartlepool for example.