The more I’ve looked at the timetables, the more I think these latest changes will be very messy for customers.

GNE desperately need to contract an information architect. Passengers will no doubt see some of these changes as confusing:

• V3 being rerouted will no doubt cause issues—it contains half of the previous V3 route, and half of the previous V5 route. It should be re-numbered. I wonder how many will board the V3 thinking it will go through Bridgehill. 
  
• X5/X15: when viewing the timetable on the website, selecting “To Consett & Shotley Bridge” implies you’re travelling from Durham to Consett, and not from, e.g., Bridgehill to Consett. It does not display the route to Consett on the “To Consett” tab. Towards Durham, it only implies there being one service an hour serving Bridgehill. [This is likely due to Shotley RC Church being the terminus point, but in reality Durham is the only terminus point of this service. Internal convenience for GNE should not be substituted for customer convenience]
  
• 45/X45/X46/47/47a is a mess of a timetable to look at or find anything on. How did anyone sign this off? Split them up. There is zero need for 47 to be grouped with (X)45/X46 when nobody is going to be travelling from Newcastle to Consett on the 47. 
  
• 53/54 need to display the Quayside (from 5 Sep) on the timetable list, much like other services list additional stops from 5 Sep. Searching for the Quayside on the timetable list will only display ToonLink and Q3.
  
• Speaking of which, why does the search on the timetable list only search the “key” destinations? Poor UX.
  

I can’t comment on most other services, but these are pretty messy. 

Oh well, at least we can view a “summary” of the changes in a 60 page document.

(07 Aug 2021, 7:54 pm)ddddddd wrote The more I’ve looked at the timetables, the more I think these latest changes will be very messy for customers.

GNE desperately need to contract an information architect. Passengers will no doubt see some of these changes as confusing:

• V3 being rerouted will no doubt cause issues—it contains half of the previous V3 route, and half of the previous V5 route. It should be re-numbered. I wonder how many will board the V3 thinking it will go through Bridgehill. 
  
• X5/X15: when viewing the timetable on the website, selecting “To Consett & Shotley Bridge” implies you’re travelling from Durham to Consett, and not from, e.g., Bridgehill to Consett. It does not display the route to Consett on the “To Consett” tab. Towards Durham, it only implies there being one service an hour serving Bridgehill. [This is likely due to Shotley RC Church being the terminus point, but in reality Durham is the only terminus point of this service. Internal convenience for GNE should not be substituted for customer convenience]
  
• 45/X45/X46/47/47a is a mess of a timetable to look at or find anything on. How did anyone sign this off? Split them up. There is zero need for 47 to be grouped with (X)45/X46 when nobody is going to be travelling from Newcastle to Consett on the 47. 
  
• 53/54 need to display the Quayside (from 5 Sep) on the timetable list, much like other services list additional stops from 5 Sep. Searching for the Quayside on the timetable list will only display ToonLink and Q3.
  
• Speaking of which, why does the search on the timetable list only search the “key” destinations? Poor UX.
  

I can’t comment on most other services, but these are pretty messy. 

Oh well, at least we can view a “summary” of the changes in a 60 page document.

The new timetable hasn't been uploaded yet as a PDF yet, it still has the one from the 12th April 2021..... although the one on the page for the services is a mess, but I agree, it needs to be separate timetables.

(07 Aug 2021, 6:12 pm)transportintyneandwear wrote https://twitter.com/MartijnGNE/status/14...0024131585

Looks like we've missed two, Sunderl and District Blonde and Silver.....

So just a recap:

Sunderland and District Berries 2 - Pink Versas
Sunderland and District Silver 33 - Silver Solos
Sunderland and District Blonde 38 - Gold Solos
Sunderland and District Graphite 39 - Black Solos
Sunderland and District Cherry 35 -  Red Citaros
Sunderland and District Violet 55 - Purple Citaros
Sunderland and District Blue 61 -  Blue Citaros

What about the 60/20 the 60 has been called the Sunderland District Drifter 60, Personally I think the 9 should be branding.

(07 Aug 2021, 11:28 am)Andreos1 wrote I'd have loved to have seen the business case for the latest version of the 71 and the predicted revenues versus capital expenditure.
I'd then happily laugh in the face of the wild claims made and send that person back to bus planning school.

There's throwing money after bad and then there's the 71. 
15 years of someone, somewhere persevering, tweaking it slightly, tweaking it a bit more and cutting the resource, giving up for a bit (see 36 extension from Houghton), before coming back for a bit more and somehow convincing the powers that be, that after all the failed efforts previously - this version was going to work.
All whilst being part of a failed legacy of the Omnis on the 21 debacle.

As for the mandarins at the Dft and their timetable changes impacting on a bus service.
Imagine the mandarins in bus op commercial departments impacting on more than just rail connectivity...

I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. The 71 service operates out of Chester-le-street, which is also the terminus for 71, which means drivers and vehicles are used as efficiently as possible. They only use two buses for the 60 minute service and the vehicles are cascaded, so it's just the running costs which need to be paid. If anybody needs to learn how to schedule I don't think it's GNE....

(07 Aug 2021, 8:29 pm)Keeiajs wrote What about the 60/20 the 60 has been called the Sunderland District Drifter 60, Personally I think the 9 should be branding.

Totally pointless as the 9 will interwork with the 5 so they would both technically have to share 1 brand or it would be pointless, it will stay corporate unless there is a plan with it being yellow on the map

(07 Aug 2021, 9:08 pm)N1cholas wrote Totally pointless as the 9 will interwork with the 5 so they would both technically have to share 1 brand or it would be pointless, it will stay corporate unless there is a plan with it being yellow on the map

I thought the yellow was for either 38 or 33

(07 Aug 2021, 6:12 pm)transportintyneandwear wrote https://twitter.com/MartijnGNE/status/14...0024131585

Looks like we've missed two, Sunderl and District Blonde and Silver.....

So just a recap:

Sunderland and District Berries 2 - Pink Versas
Sunderland and District Silver 33 - Silver Solos
Sunderland and District Blonde 38 - Gold Solos
Sunderland and District Graphite 39 - Black Solos
Sunderland and District Cherry 35 -  Red Citaros
Sunderland and District Violet 55 - Purple Citaros
Sunderland and District Blue 61 -  Blue Citaros

The Silver Fox? Phillip Schofield comes to mind…

Graphite? Is their a tenuous Sunderland link I’m missing? Same for Blue parrot? Makaw? Sounds a bit like Makem? We almost had a theme with the fruits. But these latest two? Nobody wants hair in their food…

Just checking VOSA and it seems the M7 has been registered for the 5th September:

PB0003954/1101
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED M7 Stanley Bus Station Stanley Bus Station

(07 Aug 2021, 9:42 pm)James101 wrote The Silver Fox? Phillip Schofield comes to mind…

Graphite? Is their a tenuous Sunderland link I’m missing? Same for Blue parrot? Makaw? Sounds a bit like Makem? We almost had a theme with the fruits. But these latest two? Nobody wants hair in their food…

The obvious Sunderland link would have been coals if you needed something to describe a dark black grey colour.  But that would have had some local relevance hence the selection of something completely obscure. 

Even beyond the questionable choice of brand names and graphics, it even makes little sense as a "simple tube map" as the colour descriptors are so ... undescriptive.  How many people are going to say oh do I want the graphite line or the voilet line (or one of the other four purply coloured lines.  Or mistakenly punt for the blonde line being yellowy and end up in Jarra.  Coloured route branding isn't a bad idea but this is just really badly executed.

(07 Aug 2021, 9:58 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote The obvious Sunderland link would have been coals if you needed something to describe a dark black grey colour.  But that would have had some local relevance hence the selection of something completely obscure. 

Even beyond the questionable choice of brand names and graphics, it even makes little sense as a "simple tube map" as the colour descriptors are so ... undescriptive.  How many people are going to say oh do I want the graphite line or the voilet line (or one of the other four purply coloured lines.  Or mistakenly punt for the blonde line being yellowy and end up in Jarra.  Coloured route branding isn't a bad idea but this is just really badly executed.

At least GNE are trying to make their fleet stand out and get passengers back on the buses because i've seen Stagecoach and Arriva do nothing at all.

(07 Aug 2021, 9:57 pm)Michael wrote Just checking VOSA and it seems the M7 has been registered for the 5th September:

PB0003954/1101
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED M7 Stanley Bus Station Stanley Bus Station

Could be wrong but I believe this is actually the 31 - according to the registration history it was registered 21 July 2019, at the time of these service changes the M7 was revised to run Stanley-East Stanley only - what is now the 31. Can't find a 31 registration either so think it's just that the route number has never been updated

(07 Aug 2021, 10:03 pm)Michael wrote At least GNE are trying to make their fleet stand out and get passengers back on the buses because i've seen Stagecoach and Arriva do nothing at all.

Do Stagecoach and Arriva have a lot less passengers as a result?

(07 Aug 2021, 10:03 pm)Michael wrote At least GNE are trying to make their fleet stand out and get passengers back on the buses because i've seen Stagecoach and Arriva do nothing at all.

(07 Aug 2021, 10:07 pm)peter wrote Could be wrong but I believe this is actually the 31 - according to the registration history it was registered 21 July 2019, at the time of these service changes the M7 was revised to run Stanley-East Stanley only - what is now the 31. Can't find a 31 registration either so think it's just that the route number has never been updated

Ah right, could be, never checked the history.

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(07 Aug 2021, 10:08 pm)ne14ne1 wrote Do Stagecoach and Arriva have a lot less passengers as a result?

No idea about Arriva but Stagecoach I have noticed a drop in passengers on some routes (16 and 23), both routes I use weekly.

GNE need to go for stability. SNE win hands down for that. They don’t need fancy brandings or names . GNE had more stability pre 1986.

(07 Aug 2021, 10:12 pm)Economic505 wrote GNE need to go for stability. SNE win hands down for that. They don’t need fancy brandings or names . GNE had more stability pre 1986.

They do but could it also back fire on Stagecoach, what if passenger numbers don't go back up to pre-pandemic numbers?, bet by June next year, Stagecoach are changing services left right and centre.

(07 Aug 2021, 10:16 pm)Michael wrote They do but could it also back fire on Stagecoach, what if passenger numbers don't go back up to pre-pandemic numbers?, bet by June next year, Stagecoach are changing services left right and centre.

It would be interesting to know how the drop in passenger numbers compares across providers, and indeed how the bounceback compares.  I’ve no idea whether there is a marked difference in the extent to which different operators have been hit but Martijn has been really vocal that Go Ahead is loss making (e.g. when defending pay offer) whereas Stagecoach declared an (albeit reduced) profit in the last year.

(07 Aug 2021, 10:21 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote It would be interesting to know how the drop in passenger numbers compares across providers, and indeed how the bounceback compares.  I’ve no idea whether there is a marked difference in the extent to which different operators have been hit but Martijn has been really vocal that Go Ahead is loss making (e.g. when defending pay offer) whereas Stagecoach declared an (albeit reduced) profit in the last year.

It would be, Ye Martijn has been very vocal on everything, is it a good or bad move though?

I never knew Stagecoach made a small profit this year, that's good but now they won't gain much of the government support - as I'm sure companies making a profit can't get it? - could be wrong on that though and it's likely to of changed, since everything changes every week!



I don't want comment on the pay rise because that's a GNE problem.... I don't work for the company, so Its got nothing to do with me.

(07 Aug 2021, 10:08 pm)ne14ne1 wrote Do Stagecoach and Arriva have a lot less passengers as a result?

Arriva have slashed frequencies on services that are often and. Have always been very busy like the 64 and the 6. I know they're struggling for staff but they'd have done anything to avoid that if they weren't losing passengers.

Can't help but wonder if the stand allocations are correct or if there's been a gremlin in the system somewhere. The changes in Eldon Square add up but the changes in the Galleries seem odd. X1 now running off Stand C to Easington Lane, Peterlee and Dalton Park along with the 50, while the minibuses are switched to Stand A with the 4.

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Seems easier as you get the 4 towards Heworth and the X1 to Newcastle both pull in at the same time roughly

(07 Aug 2021, 9:42 pm)James101 wrote The Silver Fox? Phillip Schofield comes to mind…

Graphite? Is their a tenuous Sunderland link I’m missing? Same for Blue parrot? Makaw? Sounds a bit like Makem? We almost had a theme with the fruits. But these latest two? Nobody wants hair in their food…

Oh, my mind instantly went to blue tit when I saw a blue bird 

(07 Aug 2021, 11:04 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Arriva have slashed frequencies on services that are often and. Have always been very busy like the 64 and the 6. I know they're struggling for staff but they'd have done anything to avoid that if they weren't losing passengers.

How can they avoid it, if they have no staff?

Someone I know who works there told me that they had a DVSA letter for high lost milage which told them to reduce services given they had such high sickness.

On one of my days in Newcastle in June, I started my day travelling Newcastle - Peterlee - Durham - Stanley - Newcastle. I rode just Go North East buses that day. I am disappointed at the withdrawal of route 208 linking Peterlee with Durham, even though it is slower than Arriva.

(08 Aug 2021, 7:46 am)Metroline1511 wrote On one of my days in Newcastle in June, I started my day travelling Newcastle - Peterlee - Durham - Stanley - Newcastle. I rode just Go North East buses that day. I am disappointed at the withdrawal of route 208 linking Peterlee with Durham, even though it is slower than Arriva.

Probably not enough passengers to keep the service going, there’s an X62 between Peterlee and Durham but only 1 journey each way for the college kids, looks like passengers wishing to travel between the 2 points then there’s Arriva 22/24 or board the X1/55 to Hetton Interchange then the Half hourly 65 to Durham


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I wonder if the X6 does service 38A from Park lane - around the docks then back to Park Lane as someone mentioned that the X6 has over 20 minutes layover time?


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(07 Aug 2021, 9:05 pm)DeltaMan wrote I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. The 71 service operates out of Chester-le-street, which is also the terminus for 71, which means drivers and vehicles are used as efficiently as possible. They only use two buses for the 60 minute service and the vehicles are cascaded, so it's just the running costs which need to be paid. If anybody needs to learn how to schedule I don't think it's GNE....

You are right, Chester is the terminus. It is close to the depot too.
Remember when Deptford had the route (one of the small periods of time when someone realised the 71 wasn't working) and there was a lot more dead mileage?
So yes, that is an improvement.
Quite what that's got to do with running the service in to the ground, I'm not sure.

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(08 Aug 2021, 12:17 am)Train8261 wrote Seems easier as you get the 4 towards Heworth and the X1 to Newcastle both pull in at the same time roughly

They encourage transfers between the two services and have done since the M1/4 replaced Newcastle terminating services across a portion of its route.
Keeping them at the same stand (or at least on the stands next to each other) , makes it a lot easier and arguably, more attractive) to transfer between the two services.

The X6 and 62 timetable is a little odd, it looks as if both must be interworking with something else at Sunderland but not sure what with or how that works.

X6 departs Sunderland at xx:07, arriving xx:41 in Peterlee
Leaving Peterlee they depart at xx:48 and arrive at xx:23 in Sunderland.

62 departs Sunderland at xx:55, arriving xx:11 in Peterlee
Leaving Peterlee they depart at xx:17, and arrive at xx:32 in Sunderland.

(08 Aug 2021, 11:32 am)Drifter60 wrote The X6 and 62 timetable is a little odd, it looks as if both must be interworking with something else at Sunderland but not sure what with or how that works.

X6 departs Sunderland at xx:07, arriving xx:41 in Peterlee
Leaving Peterlee they depart at xx:48 and arrive at xx:23 in Sunderland.

62 departs Sunderland at xx:55, arriving xx:11 in Peterlee
Leaving Peterlee they depart at xx:17, and arrive at xx:32 in Sunderland.

The 38A will interwork with the 62 as it terminates at Park Lane Stand A at 49.

(08 Aug 2021, 11:51 am)ASX_Terranova wrote The 38A will interwork with the 62 as it terminates at Park Lane Stand A at 49.

It can't interwork with the 62 on the inbound journeys as the 38A departs Vine Place at :30 when the 62 is still at Esplanade West at that time. So either it interworks only with the X6 which arrives :23 and departs :07 or a bus does an does an X6, a 38A, then runs onto the 62

(08 Aug 2021, 11:51 am)ASX_Terranova wrote The 38A will interwork with the 62 as it terminates at Park Lane Stand A at 49.

Hmm, a Peterlee Purples bus doing the 38A which is surely a Sunderland District route? 
I’m a fan - generally speaking - of route branding or collectively branding a group of routes, but it gets silly if the 38 is one brand and the 38A another? 

I’m still curious as to what the X6 is doing.