(28 Dec 2021, 3:28 pm)L469 YVK wrote My guesses for January service changes, they'll likely be a long shot but could be right in parts maybe? The obvious ones are the X9/X10 and X84/X75

X45/X46
- Reduced to every 20 mins combined to improve reliability and assist with driver numbers.

47/47A
- Extra bus in PVR to improve reliability although wouldn't increase driver requirement by much as it would just be a long layover at Consett.

X30/X31
- Both standalone (Mon-Sat daytime) from X70/X71/X72 with maybe potential future move to CLS saying Consett have also gained the 78.

X70/X71/X72
- All standalone (Mon-Sat daytime) from X30/X31.

X21
- PM & evening journeys re-timed and 1700 journey from NCL to BA re-timed to run later providing a more convenient service for commuters.

Well, you've got 1 out of 5 right from what I've seen - and to somewhat put my neck out here, of those 5 only 2 of them are having any changes in January. Indeed, no Chester services are changing - and very little X-Lines services out of Consett depot are changing.

(28 Dec 2021, 3:43 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Well, you've got 1 out of 5 right from what I've seen - and to somewhat put my neck out here, of those 5 only 2 of them are having any changes in January. Indeed, no Chester services are changing - and very little X-Lines services out of Consett depot are changing.

There are changes the 4th and 30th of Jan I think.

(28 Dec 2021, 3:43 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Well, you've got 1 out of 5 right from what I've seen - and to somewhat put my neck out here, of those 5 only 2 of them are having any changes in January. Indeed, no Chester services are changing - and very little X-Lines services out of Consett depot are changing.

Care to share, if you've seen the details?

(28 Dec 2021, 4:28 pm)Michael wrote Care to share, if you've seen the details?

Since someone has shared the screenshot on Go North East’s Facebook page today…..

Consett
16/16A: weekday afternoon peak retimed to avoid stand clashes
47/47A: Full Timetable review to improve reliability
X5/X15: all journeys revised to operate via Bridgehill to partly replace the X46
X45/X46: revised to every 20 minutes (two per hour as X45, and one X46)

Deptford
55: new timetable to improve reliability. Doxford Park now only served Mon-Sat peaks due to low demand
X20: timetable revised to improve reliability and better co-ordinated with services 20 and 55 on Durham Road

Riverside & Hexham
6: Saturday evening journeys retimed to avoid a stand clash in Newcastle
10/10A/10B: additional vehicle added to improve reliability
X9/X10: X9 cancelled due to poor recovery with X10 running hourly via X10E route serving all areas with double decker buses

Hexham Local services
680: timetable revised to improve reliability
682: withdrawn and replaced by new 684
683: short inter-peak journeys operated by Consett withdraw, with other journeys retimed
686: minor changes, with journeys to Ovington reduced to offer an increased frequency Prudhoe-Ovingham
687: no longer inter work with 680/688 to improve reliability. Some journeys now operated by Consett depot
688: timetable revised to improve reliability
689: additional journey between Hexham and Slaley Hall introduced
X84: renumbered 684 and revised to operate via Corchester Lane and Hexham Station between Corbridge and Hexham to replaced 682. Retimed to offer better coordinated timings with Arriva/Stagecoach 685
X85: withdrawn

Washington
4: morning journeys to Amazon transferred from Deptford to Washington, with other journeys retimed
X1: timetable revised to improve reliability and improve co-ordination with the 55 between Houghton and Peterlee

(28 Dec 2021, 6:30 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Since someone has shared the screenshot on Go North East’s Facebook page today…..

Consett
16/16A: weekday afternoon peak retimed to avoid stand clashes
47/47A: Full Timetable review to improve reliability
X5/X15: all journeys revised to operate via Bridgehill to partly replace the X46
X45/X46: revised to every 20 minutes (two per hour as X45, and one X46)

Deptford
55: new timetable to improve reliability. Doxford Park now only served Mon-Sat peaks due to low demand
X20: timetable revised to improve reliability and better co-ordinated with services 20 and 55 on Durham Road

Riverside & Hexham
6: Saturday evening journeys retimed to avoid a stand clash in Newcastle
10/10A/10B: additional vehicle added to improve reliability
X9/X10: X9 cancelled due to poor recovery with X10 running hourly via X10E route serving all areas with double decker buses

Hexham Local services
680: timetable revised to improve reliability
682: withdrawn and replaced by new 684
683: short inter-peak journeys operated by Consett withdraw, with other journeys retimed
686: minor changes, with journeys to Ovington reduced to offer an increased frequency Prudhoe-Ovingham
687: no longer inter work with 680/688 to improve reliability. Some journeys now operated by Consett depot
688: timetable revised to improve reliability
689: additional journey between Hexham and Slaley Hall introduced
X84: renumbered 684 and revised to operate via Corchester Lane and Hexham Station between Corbridge and Hexham to replaced 682. Retimed to offer better coordinated timings with Arriva/Stagecoach 685
X85: withdrawn

Washington
4: morning journeys to Amazon transferred from Deptford to Washington, with other journeys retimed
X1: timetable revised to improve reliability and improve co-ordination with the 55 between Houghton and Peterlee

Oh thanks.

Hexham seems to have quite a few changes, think Hexham is an area which could benefit from having most of the services merged together.


PVR drops to 6 on the X45/X46? (currently 8)

(28 Dec 2021, 6:30 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Since someone has shared the screenshot on Go North East’s Facebook page today…..

Consett
16/16A: weekday afternoon peak retimed to avoid stand clashes
47/47A: Full Timetable review to improve reliability
X5/X15: all journeys revised to operate via Bridgehill to partly replace the X46
X45/X46: revised to every 20 minutes (two per hour as X45, and one X46)

So I was right about the 47/47A (PVR TBC) and X45/X46?

No doubt the X30's and X70's will follow at a later time once driver numbers are stable but if both groups of services are eventually made standalone, it would make sense given the changeover mileage to operate the X30/X31 out of CLS rather than Hownsgill.

(28 Dec 2021, 6:57 pm)L469 YVK wrote So I was right about the 47/47A (PVR TBC) and X45/X46?

No doubt the X30's and X70's will follow at a later time once driver numbers are stable but if both groups of services are eventually made standalone, it would make sense given the changeover mileage to operate the X30/X31 out of CLS rather than Hownsgill.

You weren’t right about the 47, no.

To nip this in the bud as I’m getting tired of seeing posts like this every day… It’s also ludicrous to suggest that Chester-le-Street would operate the X30/X31. It would introduce another new vehicle type into Chester-le-Street’s fleet (the X21 isn’t going to be operated by E400s - again, let’s nip that in the bud), it would introduce more remote reliefs at Chester-le-Street, and would involve a lot of route learning cost, for absolutely no benefit. The X30/1 work fine as they are from Consett.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(28 Dec 2021, 3:36 pm)Keeiajs wrote X45/X46, they are normally 20 mins late, when I have been off them. reducing the frequency by 5 mins isn't going to do a thing except make them more late.

With the exception of 'unexpected disruption' which can often happen on the MetroCentre - Newcastle services, running every 20 mins should stub out most of the routine late running.

Out of the extra 5 mins layover:

- Extra 2 mins in Consett giving 7 mins layover instead of 5 mins

- Extra 3 mins in Newcastle giving 10 mins layover rather than 7 mins.

Obviously that could be jigged around as needed.

Don't forget, if 1x cycle with the same duty runs late, the next cycle will also run late. A frequency reduction should sort that.

(28 Dec 2021, 6:42 pm)Michael wrote Oh thanks.

Hexham seems to have quite a few changes, think Hexham is an area which could benefit from having most of the services merged together.


PVR drops to 6 on the X45/X46? (currently 8)

I think its a mistake to drop the X45/X46 to every 20 mins, they get too busy. 

You could increase the 47 to every 20 mins, 2x 47, 1x47A

(28 Dec 2021, 7:03 pm)L469 YVK wrote With the exception of 'unexpected disruption' which can often happen on the MetroCentre - Newcastle services, running every 20 mins should stub out most of the routine late running.

Out of the extra 5 mins layover:

- Extra 2 mins in Consett giving 7 mins layover instead of 5 mins

- Extra 3 mins in Newcastle giving 10 mins layover rather than 7 mins.

Obviously that could be jigged around as needed.

Don't forget, if 1x cycle with the same duty runs late, the next cycle will also run late. A frequency reduction should sort that.

Sounds like something that was omitted from the final draft of an Alanis Morriset song. Don't you think? Isn't it ironic... Like rain on your wedding day or someone offering you a lift when you're already late.
(look it up kids).

(28 Dec 2021, 7:36 pm)Andreos1 wrote Sounds like something that was omitted from the final draft of an Alanis Morriset song. Don't you think? Isn't it ironic... Like rain on your wedding day or someone offering you a lift when you're already late.
(look it up kids).

Yeah, but can't do nothing if all of a sudden out of the blue a surge of traffic hits the roads around the MetroCentre or tailbacks on the Redheugh Bridge.

No operator can reasonably foresee such events although they do happen. They can have contingencies in place when such events are a common occurance.

It's like before the A19 / Silverlink interchange was sorted, the 309 & 310 were a lottery. Some nights absolutely fine, others wall to wall traffic with very severe delays. And that was even with some generous running time added.

(28 Dec 2021, 7:01 pm)Dan wrote You weren’t right about the 47, no.

To nip this in the bud as I’m getting tired of seeing posts like this every day… It’s also ludicrous to suggest that Chester-le-Street would operate the X30/X31. It would introduce another new vehicle type into Chester-le-Street’s fleet (the X21 isn’t going to be operated by E400s - again, let’s nip that in the bud), it would introduce more remote reliefs at Chester-le-Street, and would involve a lot of route learning cost, for absolutely no benefit. The X30/1 work fine as they are from Consett.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But, if they did, CLS to Stanley for remote reliefs is less mileage than CLS to Hownsgill.

To be honest without the raw figures and facts, I'm sorry but I just don't see the Volvo B5TL (especially given their history) as suitable allocations to the X21 longer term. The same was argued about the initial batch of StreetDecks 6301-07 and look how they turned out?

I know that GNE aren't all of a sudden going to introduce sweeping changes for the sake of a vehicle allocation. But if they did for 'other reasons' (reliability, timekeeping) and the numbers matched up even if Consett kept the X30/X31, an E400 allocation on the X21 would make sense.

Arriva have operated the Classic versions with ZF boxes no bother on the X21/X22 and although now pushing their luck with 7529-33 and 7553-56, have done their at least 5 year span (expected on such routes going by ANE's 7453-56 and GNE's 6043-48 track records) on the X15/X18.

GNE are also soon allocating 6352-55 on the X10.

I'll put it to bed now.

(28 Dec 2021, 7:01 pm)Dan wrote You weren’t right about the 47, no.

To nip this in the bud as I’m getting tired of seeing posts like this every day… It’s also ludicrous to suggest that Chester-le-Street would operate the X30/X31. It would introduce another new vehicle type into Chester-le-Street’s fleet (the X21 isn’t going to be operated by E400s - again, let’s nip that in the bud), it would introduce more remote reliefs at Chester-le-Street, and would involve a lot of route learning cost, for absolutely no benefit. The X30/1 work fine as they are from Consett.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In fairness, that was probs something you would have said about X9/X10 about the E400 a few months ago. And X21 has already had 6301-07 Streetdecks I pretty sure if we asked you that in 2017 you would have had the same response. Lets face it you haven't exactly been keeping chester le street's fleet as streamlined as possible tbh.

Or the 50 moving depots, or the 26, or X6....

(28 Dec 2021, 7:48 pm)L469 YVK wrote Yeah, but can't do nothing if all of a sudden out of the blue a surge of traffic hits the roads around the MetroCentre or tailbacks on the Redheugh Bridge.

No operator can reasonably foresee such events although they do happen. They can have contingencies in place when such events are a common occurance.

It's like before the A19 / Silverlink interchange was sorted, the 309 & 310 were a lottery. Some nights absolutely fine, others wall to wall traffic with very severe delays. And that was even with some generous running time added.

But you originally said "'unexpected disruption' which can often happen on the MetroCentre" - is it unexpected or does it happen often? Surely it cannot be both, as if it happens often, it'd be expected/a pattern/predictable. 

(28 Dec 2021, 8:05 pm)L469 YVK wrote But, if they did, CLS to Stanley for remote reliefs is less mileage than CLS to Hownsgill.

To be honest without the raw figures and facts, I'm sorry but I just don't see the Volvo B5TL (especially given their history) as suitable allocations to the X21 longer term. The same was argued about the initial batch of StreetDecks 6301-07 and look how they turned out?

I know that GNE aren't all of a sudden going to introduce sweeping changes for the sake of a vehicle allocation. But if they did for 'other reasons' (reliability, timekeeping) and the numbers matched up even if Consett kept the X30/X31, an E400 allocation on the X21 would make sense.

Arriva have operated the Classic versions with ZF boxes no bother on the X21/X22 and although now pushing their luck with 7529-33 and 7553-56, have done their at least 5 year span (expected on such routes going by ANE's 7453-56 and GNE's 6043-48 track records) on the X15/X18.

GNE are also soon allocating 6352-55 on the X10.

I'll put it to bed now.

The difference is that the operator does have the raw figures and facts. 

Regarding 6301-07, how have they turned out? Looking at the history on bustimes, they've survived the last two months with minimal time off the road, with exception of 6303, and they perform fine when I've used them lately.

(28 Dec 2021, 8:09 pm)Keeiajs wrote In fairness, that was probs something you would have said about X9/X10 about the E400 a few months ago. And X21 has already had 6301-07 Streetdecks I pretty sure if we asked you that in 2017 you would have had the same response. Lets face it you haven't exactly been keeping chester le street's fleet as streamlined as possible tbh.

Or the 50 moving depots, or the 26, or X6....

To be fair in Dan's defence, the withdrawal of coaches, dropping the X10E and the availability of 6352-55 was a logical decision. If anything, the coaches would've been ideal in better times.

Now streamlining CLS allocations, although I don't agree with the vehicle allocation of the X21, the logistics and numbers of the original revised 2019-2020 orders / allocations pointed towards B5TLs. CLS' allocations bar the use of both 6334-35 as part of the X21 PVR are reasonably streamlined. A far cry from ex London Presidents running the 21 or a mish mash of Single / Double Decks or even going back to the Volvo B5LHs on the 21 and being 2x short when it operated at a higher frequency with fewer decent backup resources availabke.

---

(28 Dec 2021, 8:21 pm)Adrian wrote But you originally said "'unexpected disruption' which can often happen on the MetroCentre" - is it unexpected or does it happen often? Surely it cannot be both, as if it happens often, it'd be expected/a pattern/predictable. 


The difference is that the operator does have the raw figures and facts. 

Regarding 6301-07, how have they turned out? Looking at the history on bustimes, they've survived the last two months with minimal time off the road, with exception of 6303, and they perform fine when I've used them lately.

R.E the MetroCentre, it can happen unexpectedly for a number of reasons.

As for 6301-07, they're fine in the role they're in now but weren't great on the X21.

I’m sure pre Covid I remember long queues at peak times for the X84/X85 in Eldon Square, and didn’t GNE used to run an additional peak hour trip (used to be something that did a Team Valley then a short 12 then an X85 as I recall), it’s strange how it’s gone from this to such a big reduction

When all the workers return to their offices when we are back to normal they are going to no doubt have to find an alternative way to travel home, unless they can all fit on an hourly Versa.

(28 Dec 2021, 8:21 pm)Adrian wrote But you originally said "'unexpected disruption' which can often happen on the MetroCentre" - is it unexpected or does it happen often? Surely it cannot be both, as if it happens often, it'd be expected/a pattern/predictable. 

Tbh it is unexpected, as it happenes at various times, there has been days where I have been there at 5pm, went there the week after and it was empty. It happens oftern but not at the same time.

---

(28 Dec 2021, 8:24 pm)L469 YVK wrote If anything, the coaches would've been ideal in better times.

I don't think the coaches aren't ideal, they are just reliable and I don't think that would change in any time we are in.

(28 Dec 2021, 8:27 pm)Wybus wrote I’m sure pre Covid I remember long queues at peak times for the X84/X85 in Eldon Square, and didn’t GNE used to run an additional peak hour trip (used to be something that did a Team Valley then a short 12 then an X85 as I recall), it’s strange how it’s gone from this to such a big reduction

When all the workers return to their offices when we are back to normal they are going to no doubt have to find an alternative way to travel home, unless they can all fit on an hourly Versa.

Been big improvements to the trains on the Tyne Valley line going from every 30 minutes with buses running on it to every 20 minutes with trains running it. It's much quicker than the X84/X85 and pretty much serves everywhere on both routes other than Corbridge.

(28 Dec 2021, 8:27 pm)Wybus wrote I’m sure pre Covid I remember long queues at peak times for the X84/X85 in Eldon Square, and didn’t GNE used to run an additional peak hour trip (used to be something that did a Team Valley then a short 12 then an X85 as I recall), it’s strange how it’s gone from this to such a big reduction

When all the workers return to their offices when we are back to normal they are going to no doubt have to find an alternative way to travel home, unless they can all fit on an hourly Versa.

I suppose the argument might be who knows when/if we might return to normal. We're not out of the woods with this pandemic yet and the introduction of 'work from home' is gonna change working practices indefinitely - some may never return to the office or at least may only return part-time. In which case, does it not makes sense for GNE to stop running the commuter X85 if it's running at a loss. In the future, should passenger numbers on Newcastle-Hexham services pick up again, then I'm sure GNE might look at the reintroduction of a Hexham express. When the service was introduced back in 2013 it clearly attracted passengers from other services and/or the train, building from the baseline 684 - what's to say that won't happen again in the future when we're living in less 'uncertain times' as they say.

And as has already been mentioned, in that same time frame the train has seen an improvement in both fleet and frequency, which is another factor to bear in mind!

This might of already been confirmed, but where will the 2 spare Streetdecks from the X45/X46 end up?

(28 Dec 2021, 8:27 pm)Wybus wrote I’m sure pre Covid I remember long queues at peak times for the X84/X85 in Eldon Square, and didn’t GNE used to run an additional peak hour trip (used to be something that did a Team Valley then a short 12 then an X85 as I recall), it’s strange how it’s gone from this to such a big reduction

When all the workers return to their offices when we are back to normal they are going to no doubt have to find an alternative way to travel home, unless they can all fit on an hourly Versa.

The key point here is they aren’t returning. Hybrid is here to stay. Full time office work is dead, even post pandemic. 

The sooner people realise this and bus companies adapt (and not just slash slash) the better we’ll be

I did get it wrong with the PVR of the 47/47A. There does appear to be wiggle room available to increase running time.

When will the new timetables be annouced as the X20, and X1 are routes I regularly use with the X10 and X45/46.

(28 Dec 2021, 8:59 pm)Michael wrote This might of already been confirmed, but where will the 2 spare Streetdecks from the X45/X46 end up?

My prediction would be that 6331-6333 will head to Chester for the 21/X21, 6301-6307 could go to Washington for X1 spares and then to have the same number of Euro 6 vehicles funded for by South Tyneside Council for the 50, then 6336/8-40 for the Consett expresses, with 1 spare out of 6356-6363, plus 6064.

(28 Dec 2021, 8:27 pm)Wybus wrote I’m sure pre Covid I remember long queues at peak times for the X84/X85 in Eldon Square, and didn’t GNE used to run an additional peak hour trip (used to be something that did a Team Valley then a short 12 then an X85 as I recall), it’s strange how it’s gone from this to such a big reduction

When all the workers return to their offices when we are back to normal they are going to no doubt have to find an alternative way to travel home, unless they can all fit on an hourly Versa.

I believe it did a 90 off the back of 689 and a scholars before a 12 and X85 back to Hexham

90 being another once popular service to fall by the wayside a few months ago

(28 Dec 2021, 9:08 pm)Ambassador wrote The key point here is they aren’t returning. Hybrid is here to stay. Full time office work is dead, even post pandemic. 

The sooner people realise this and bus companies adapt (and not just slash slash) the better we’ll be

Hybrid working still involves office work some days a week though. It will be interesting how operators cope with this as at the moment they seem to be basing services on no office work at all

And whilst on the topic of the 90, I never understood this withdrawal either, as isn’t a lot of Team Valley, manual workers rather than office works, who can’t work from home? It looked to me that it was withdrawn for operational convenience (due to other changes such as no M6/7/8 to interwork it with) rather than sudden lack of customers

(28 Dec 2021, 11:40 pm)Wybus wrote Hybrid working still involves office work some days a week though. It will be interesting how operators cope with this as at the moment they seem to be basing services on no office work at all

And whilst on the topic of the 90, I never understood this withdrawal either, as isn’t a lot of Team Valley, manual workers rather than office works, who can’t work from home? It looked to me that it was withdrawn for operational convenience (due to other changes such as no M6/7/8 to interwork it with) rather than sudden lack of customers

Isn't the 90 Tendered now, think GCT are supposed to have it

(28 Dec 2021, 11:40 pm)Wybus wrote Hybrid working still involves office work some days a week though. It will be interesting how operators cope with this as at the moment they seem to be basing services on no office work at all

And whilst on the topic of the 90, I never understood this withdrawal either, as isn’t a lot of Team Valley, manual workers rather than office works, who can’t work from home? It looked to me that it was withdrawn for operational convenience (due to other changes such as no M6/7/8 to interwork it with) rather than sudden lack of customers

Interesting indeed. A flexi 5 ticket may be ideal for some office workers now but in the case of those in Hexham working in Newcastle the train or, dare I say it, the car will now be the preferred option (if it wasn’t already).

And yes I suspect you’re right about the 90 after withdrawal of the Ms and the large amount of dead mileage from Hexham before/after they did 689, now operated from Consett.

---

(28 Dec 2021, 11:48 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Isn't the 90 Tendered now, think GCT are supposed to have it

GCT always ran one secured trip in each direction which is all that remains now.

(28 Dec 2021, 11:48 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Isn't the 90 Tendered now, think GCT are supposed to have it

GCT seem to have one run on the 90 in each direction which is funded although that has seemingly existed since July 2020.

VOSA reg on BusTimes: https://bustimes.org/registrations/PB1099280/122

90 Timetable: https://bustimes.org/services/90-winlato...eam-valley

The 90 that used to run around 4pm at least could be withdrawn as the justification was made that passengers could use works service 941 (ran by Weardale) from Team Valley to the Metrocentre them connect for onward travel from there.

(28 Dec 2021, 7:48 pm)L469 YVK wrote Yeah, but can't do nothing if all of a sudden out of the blue a surge of traffic hits the roads around the MetroCentre or tailbacks on the Redheugh Bridge.

No operator can reasonably foresee such events although they do happen. They can have contingencies in place when such events are a common occurance.

It's like before the A19 / Silverlink interchange was sorted, the 309 & 310 were a lottery. Some nights absolutely fine, others wall to wall traffic with very severe delays. And that was even with some generous running time added.

I know there's delays around the metrocentre on a weekend. Just as GNE do. 
Ditto with delays around TVTE at home time on an evening or when DFS have a sale on. 
Queues on the Redheugh Bridge aren't a new thing either. Early morning, early evening, when there's a gig at the arena or if there's a match on... They happen and GNE's answer is to divert a bus away from it along centrelink. It could be about finding out where the cars are coming from or going to. But it's not. 

At Silverlink, the authorities that be realised there was an issue north-south. So they created an underpass. I've not seen a bus operator come up with an alternative or create new links which meant all that work wasn't needed. All I see is the same east - west routes connecting the town with the coast. 
At the Redheugh, they built the flyover 25+ years ago. Yet the bus network in the area is pretty much as it was 35+ years ago... 

Queues of traffic beyond accidents aren't a new thing. They're not an unusual thing and should be managed in a manner which is a lot more pro-active and positive than sticking a bus in to the PVR, reducing frequency, adding more running time or shouting for more bus priority measures. 
There's a reason people are in their cars and it's time operators did more about getting them out of them.